User Interface and Carpal Tunnel - Tech Solutions?

the_REAL_sam asks: "I've been using computers since the apple 2+. I've played many games, and worked in silicon valley. I can't even guess how many hours I've logged at a keyboard. Now I'm 32 years old, and my hands sometimes shake and get numb after using a keyboard/mouse for too long. So I'm asking Slashdot what, if any, affordable technology exists to circumvent the traditional (potentially RSI-inducing) means of human-computer interface."

Comments

Hand Shaking

[Carlos Silva]

That shaking hand problem has another cause.. frequent exercise.. not that i know anything about that.. ;)

Re:Hand Shaking

[cujo_1111]

I agree. Get up from the computer and do something else, anything really.

Take up a hobby/sport where you perform different actions with your hands. I have been using computers fairly continuously since I had my Commodore 64, yet have never had any pain or numbness associated with RSI. I play golf, go bike riding, take photos and lots of other things.

Simple solution, get away from the computer for a bit each day and do something else (using a TV remote doesn't count either).

What I do.

[damu]

I am not a doctor, but what I do is have various input devices, wheel mouse, regular mouse, split keyboard, regular keyboard and every couple of months change my main computer's devices. I don't know if this will actually help but the change feels nice.

Re:What I do.

[lerxstz]

Agreed. I had a similar problem (*very* bad numbness/tingling in my arms, going up to my shoulders at one time). Stretching my arms (before going to work), exercise, and variation worked wonders. I ended up getting a wacom graphics tablet and use it instead of a mouse on my desktop computer at work. It works great for me. I can work with that much much longer than a mouse. At home, instead of sitting at a desktop computer and using the tablet, I use a laptop and it's built-in trackpad. That way I can stretch out sloth-like on a couch and still work on computer stuff if I want. Haven't had any major issues (a year now) since doing this.

Re:What I do.

[sleepingsquirrel]

Get a wacom graphics tablet with a stylus (works with linux also). Then download dasher for doing long sessions of text entry. You spell out words by "driving" the cursor in the direction that the characters come flying toward you (see the animation). Also get xstroke to do graffiti like handwriting recognition. My next goal it to start looking into voice recognition.

body!

[jkakar]

The only technology you need is in your body. Carpal tunnel syndrome is a symptom; not the root of a problem. Your hands are taking a beating because likely your back, shoulder and pelvis are all out of alignment. I've been using computers since I was 9 (I'm 26 now) and having been working full-time at a computer for the last 8 years. I've found the only thing to fight of musculoskeletal dysfunction is Pete Egoscue's Pain Free for the PC

Take up music?

[JabberWokky]

Learn to play a musical instrument. Seriously. Most people I know who are in IT and play tend to have wrists in perfect shape. Both guitar and using a PC tend to cause RSI, but switching between both seems to counteract the effect.

--
Evan

Re:Take up music?

[Rhonwyyn]

Considering that CTS and all the rest of those annoying ailments are a direct result of repetitious exercises, arguing whether the chicken (musical instruments) or the egg (computers) came first is pointless.

My wrists start to hurt after a few hours of playing piano, but so far I haven't had any significant problems on computers. My symptoms usually occur in the evenings after I leave work.

I find it absolutely hysterical that my CTS developed within one year after I started using computers on a frequent basis, but my symptoms (aggravated when I use pens/pencils) disappear when I use computers. (Some mice do cause problems, but usually I am able to avoid them.)

On the up-side, I have a medical release to avoid push-ups, pull-ups, and all other exercises that induce stress on my wrists. While in university, my professors allowed my to type my essay exams instead of typing them. Considering I think better when my fingers are on a keyboard instead of pen/paper, I count that permission as a huge blessing!

alternate stuff

[theMerovingian]

Maybe some form of weightlifting would help you.

I never have any pains other than sore muscles, and I routinely log 12-14 hours daily on a computer. A big part of that is time spent in the gym. You don't have to be a bodybuilder, just exercise 3 or 4 times a week at some light to medium weights. Figure out what the maximum weights you can lift are, then do about 60-70% of that weight for 4 sets of 8 repititions. Recheck your maximum weights every couple months, and adjust accordingly.

It will make you feel better, and improve your concentration when you have to sit still and type all day. Also, the women like guys with a little muscle on them :)

Another book

[linzeal]

I have not read that book, but as employees of the school we have access to a bookshelf of contempoary workplace books and the most accolades I have heard is for this book .

It's Not Carpal Tunnel Syndrome! RSI Theory & Therapy for Computer Professionals

Lose the mouse, maybe get a split keyboard.

[fmaxwell]

When my girlfriend, a professional writer and editor, got carpal tunnel, her doctor prescribed a wrist brace that she had to wear for x hours per day for y weeks (don't remember the exact numbers). We also made four other changes:

1. Traded in the stick-shift for an automatic.
2. Got her a smaller and lighter purse (less crap in it).
3. Went to a trackball.
4. Went to a split keyboard (Microsoft Natural).

The carpal tunnel has not returned in the intervening years.

I started to get carpal tunnel syndrome myself and went with a split keyboard and a trackball. That did the trick for me.

If you have wide shoulders, I strongly recommend the split keyboard. The wider your shoulders, the worse the angle on the wrists to use a conventional keyboard. As to mice or trackballs, trackballs rock and mice suck -- especially if you do much graphics (e.g., Photoshop) work. Get a good one and don't get one of those idiotic ones that you operate with your thumb. I recommend the ones by Mouse-Trak. Very high quality, ball size and weight is substantial, and price is reasonable at around the $100 mark.

Good luck and don't ignore the problem or it will just get much worse. Treat it early.

Re:Lose the mouse, maybe get a split keyboard.

[jtev]

resting your wrist while using a device is about the worst thing you can do CTS wize. that's why tying instrucors are always bitching at people to get their wrists up. Mice are about the worst contributor to RSI anyway, the big ones are also mainly designed for people with arthridis.

Mods and trolls, please forgive my spelling.

Get thee to a doctor

[FattMattP]

Talk to a doctor right away. If your hands are going numb and shaking then you need a qualified physician to look at them. Also, JWZ has some good information about RSI.

missing the point.

[Spudley]

The injury is not caused by *what* you do, but how often you do it.

Any user interface method will suffer from this in exactly the same way - if you spend too much time doing the same action, you will cause damage - tennis players and coal miners will tell you that they also suffer.

The only long term solution is to vary your actions. (I guess I'm saying you should tear yourself away from the computer for a few minutes each day, but I know that's asking a lot of some folk here ;))

Quick Answer

[!3ren]

Quickie... STRETCH!
Every hour or two and before you start in the morning, stop working and stretch your hands and arms. http://www.mydailyyoga.com/yoga/rsi.html
I had problems a few years ago with these types of symptoms, and after seeing a physiotherapist (and performing these types of exercise) for a while they went away.
Unfortunately, if you are experiencing numbness you may have damaged some of your nerves. I would recommend seeing a doctor/physiotherapist very soon or you could completely lose use of your hands.

Ergonomic basics

[waytoomuchcoffee]

I was developing numbness in my mousing hand at work, was sent to workers comp, and found out I had tendinitis (lucky it was only that). A few things I found out:

1) The computer screen should be directly in front of you, at eye level. Should be obvious, but quite a few people don't do it. If you are one of the dual-screen types (I expect there are a lot in the /. crowd), your primary one should be directly in front of you. Look on the back of your LCD screen if you have one - you will see a mounting area with 4 screws. These are all the same, and you can buy a monitor arm for them.

2) Your knees should be at a 90 degree angle. This might mean a new chair.

3) Your forearms should be parallel to the ground when typing on the keyboard. This might mean a keyboard tray, which is a wise investment.

4) Your forearms should also be parallel to the ground when using the mouse. No putting it on the top of the desk.

5) If you read from documents while you are working, you should seriously consider a copy holder that puts it near eye level (many monitor stands have this feature, or you can get a model that puts the document next to the monitor).

6) Look for ergonomic equipment. For mice, I use a Humanscale mouse, which forces my wrist to be straight when I use it. Trackballs are good for people as well. The split keyboards are very useful for some. You can actually get mice you can operate with your feet as well.

7) Learn to use the mouse with your opposite hand, and trade off.

8) Learn keyboard shortcuts.

I'm not a doctor, don't take this as medical advice, blah blah blah.

Get a kid

[jvj24601]

I am also 32, and I've also been using computers since the Apple ][ days, and I've found that regular excercise that uses my hands (basketball, baseball, throwing a football around) is invaluable. Having a 9 year old son who is active in sports helps a ton, too.

Re:Use emacs for everything

[JohnQPublic]

The Real Reason Unix Hackers Get R.S.I.

From: Patrick Sobalvarro <pgs@pa.dec.com>
Subject: RSI epidemic
Date: Sunday, August 13, 1995 1:26PM

Friday I was talking to my friend Johnson from the CDC, who told me that the CDC had been doing an epidemiological study of clustered RSI cases among computer scientists. He said that they've been waiting to act until their internal review process is completed, but it seems that there is indeed an infectious agent causing RSI. But it's not a biological agent. It's software.

"In particular," Johnson told me, "the significant vector among academics is Emacs."

"Emacs?" I gasped.

"Oh yes," he continued; "Didn't you ever notice that two of the first people in the computer science community around MIT who suffered from RSI were Richard Stallman and Bernie Greenberg? What were those people implementing fifteen or twenty years ago? That's what tipped us off."

We were having lunch at the cafeteria at Moffett Field. Johnson watched my hands throughout the meal. "Hey buddy. You're still doing okay anyway, aren't you? It's good to see that. Really good." He smiled, then looked at his watch and asked, "Walk me to the terminal, will you?"

I accompanied him to the little facility where crew-cut young men in uniform and their dependents, trailer-park girls with squawling babies, sat around waiting for MAC flights to other military facilities. A black helicopter, curiously silent, was waiting on the tarmac outside, its rotors turning lazily in the sunlight. "Ah, that'd be my flight," said Johnson. "Old Uncle Sam always sends you first-class, ha ha."

We shook hands. A little anxiously, I asked, "But what will you do about it? About the epidemic?"

Johnson paused before answering. He looked outside at the black helicopter. The pilot had seen him now; in his helmet and visor he appeared strangely insectile as he regarded Johnson patiently. I noticed the booms extending from the sides of the helicopter, where standardized weapons pods could be attached. "Patrick, old buddy," said Johnson playfully, "Back in high school people said you were smart, but I never thought you had an ounce of sense in your head. Listen: our charter is to protect the people of the United States of America by containing epidemics and eliminating disease. We have many... tools... at our disposal. Why don't you take a break for a while? Go someplace where people don't use Emacs. Where they never heard of Emacs. Don't take it with you. Go to Hawaii -- better yet - -- go to Redmond. Okay?" He punched my shoulder, smiling. I winced.

Then he strode out onto the tarmac, giving a thumbs-up to the pilot, who spun up the turbines. There was almost no noise. I didn't wait to watch them take off.

Eye Watcher

[KingRob]

I'm a user who has gone through serious pain due to mouse overuse.
I really want something that watches where my eyes are focused as a pointing device.

Then if I tap my index finger against my thumb, it's a left click.

Second finger against my thumb, it's a right-click.

Index finger stroking the thumb, it's a wheelie scroll.

I understand that there are issues. Like that eyes get "jitters", but surely these problems can be overcome.

Then there's the keyboard - but don't get me started on that!

some remedies that worked for me

[saarbruck]

midway through my CS major I was doing a lot of coding for class as well as for my internship, and my wrists were really bothering me. Here's what I tried:

• I switched from standard keyboards to MS Natural (the original or the new multimedia version, the middle version was crap and the oddly oriented arrow keys sucked for games)
• I learned to mouse ambidextrously (is that a word?). At school I moused left-handed, at home with the right.
• I exercised my wrists, avoiding movements that caused discomfort. I was already working on a second degree (art), so I added some ceramics classes to my schedule. Wedging clay (squishing out the air bubbles so it doesn't explode during firing) and working the pottery wheel strengthened my wrists to the point where the pain went away

I'm still pain-free after 10 years. For me, variety in my movements was the key. YMMV.

Get yourself to a doctor

[winwar]

and get a proper diagnosis first.

Just because you have wrist pain and numbness does NOT mean you have carpal tunnel syndrome. I have had similar symptoms to what you state but not due to carpal tunnel problems. Heck, excessive bending of the wrists while typing for extended periods can bring on pain and numbness. From what I have read, carpal tunnel syndrome really sucks. And what is required to treat it (often surgery) is not required to treat run of the mill really painful wrist pain.

For a start, one of the other posts had a number of good points about proper computer posture. Keep your upper legs and forearms parallel to the floor. Feet on the floor. Bend your wrists as little as possible. Support your arms at/near the elbows (adjustable arms exist on good chairs for a reason). Let your fingers do the work of typing. Take breaks. Sit up straight.

Most of my problems went away after I improved my workspace. Most workspaces I have seen (or have worked at) are awful.

Raise your monitor

[pfafrich]

Postition of chair, keyboard and monitor is very important. By simply rasing my monitor by 6 inches greatly reduced my RSI. With a low monitor you tend to hunch down creating bad posture a high monitor means that your head is level and instantly produces a better posture.

Aikido stretching...

[Dinosaur Neil]

I've been computing since the early 80's (an Apple ][+) and mousing since 1986 (an Atari 1040ST). Somewhere around the early 90's I started having pains in my right wrist. I tried a wrist brace and supportive pads for my keyboard and mouse usage and they reduced the discomfort, but didn't eliminate it. What finally worked (and still works) for me is some wrist stretching exercises I learned for Aikido. There are some fairly clear descriptions here. The most effective (for me at least) is the kotegaishi, with nikkyo a close second.