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FTC Officials Wary of Spyware Measures
Nofsck Ingcloo writes "News.com is reporting thusly:
'Two Federal Trade Commission officials ignited a political firestorm on Thursday by criticizing proposed laws targeting spyware and suggesting that the measures might harm legitimate software products, too.' During an appearance before a House of Representatives panel, FTC Commissioner Mozelle Thompson said the measures were the wrong approach to spyware and adware. Basically he is advocating a 'don't throw the baby out with the bath water' approach."
he gets from these so-called "software companies" in contributions?
Heave the "baby" out with the bathwater. Spyware is called spyware because of what it is. There's no mistaking a legitimate program that user chooses to install. In my opinion, if the user knows its being installed than its not spyware. If the user doesn't fully know whats being installed than it is spyware, and that type of software should be chucked out with the bathwater.
http://github.com/gbook/nidb
I'm not sure I fully agree with your description of the problem, but I think you're mostly right here.
Any attempt to describe the injustice in a foolproof way will only (or probably only) assert heavy restrictions on valid software. Any attempt to prove that the software was "granted" permission by the user will result in deeply-hidden and cleverly-worded explanations of what the software is doing. The same folks that are susceptible to it today will still be susceptible in the end.
::jafomatic
Voulentary Self-Regulation by industry=Popular Republican political strategy. Basically a neat way of pretending to do something while actually ignoring the problem.
Only to idiots, are orders laws.
-- Henning von Tresckow
There's no baby in the bathwater of ActiveX installs. There never was. Who needs software installed directly from the web browser? Legitimate installer programs are easy to come by, and most people who are able to go out and search for the software in the first place are smart enough to get it downloaded and installed.
There is a problem in preventing "Third party installations" from being included in the installers, as many games and legitimate tools have come to rely on DirectX, Quicktime, and Rad Game tools. But there is no necessity to include them as part of the installer itself. Meerly make a note in the installer that you need to install these utilities too and that they are included on the cd or in a setup directory.
When life gives you crap, Make Crapade.
Sluggy Freelance.
Personally i regard spyware and adware the same way i regard rootkits. The machines real users mostly dont know there there, they are using my computing power and bandwidth to provide service to some other person who is using the access to my computer to gather information about me and use this information to target me with traffic i neither like or want, and in some cases, hijack *my* internet services.
I personally dont particularly like adverts on web pages, but i can see they are needed on some sites that can only survive by the revenue they generate.
The fact that theftware (I think this is a reasonable description of programs which steal my bandwidth and steal others advertising space) such as Gator *steal* (And i cant think of any other way of describing this) the advertising space, paid for by companies that are *supporting* some of the websites i view, strikes me as the most dodgy tactics imaginable, and i hope these companies go broke.
If there isnt a law covering this disreputable activity already, i hope we get one soon.
We have regulations on what people can and cannot do with private property, why should an online computer be treated differently ? Oh yeah, they flash a so called licence agreement to the user just to be on the safe side of the law, that you dismiss by either clicking yes or no (read the very fine prints). That is unnacceptable. Any program installing on a computer should clearly show how to exit the installation process, and better, unsollicited installs should be banned altogether. I'm talking about thoses occuring when you just load a web page. You never asked to install anything, or never wanted to do so, yet something asks you install it, often in a deceptive manner.
This shouldn't be too difficult to pass such a law, and legit businesses will adapt very well. As a matter of fact, legit businesses already have adapted : a clear warning or information page with a link to the install program. Plain and simple.
*End Users* do not gain any authority by the fact that they can sit at a keyboard.
Doesn't matter if it's a 12 year old kid at your keyboard in your house, and it doesn't matter if it's a secretary in a 500 person company. Neither of these people have the authority to consent to anything, especially binding agreements (and contracts, which is how the s/w industry would like their EULAs treated).
All this crap does is legalize social engineering. Think about it.
help me i've cloned myself and can't remember which one I am
I love spyware, the more machines infested with it the better. Users get fed up with all the pop ups and machine stability problems. I either get money to remove it or it becomes amazingly simple to convince these people try Linux. It also had a dramatic effect on overall TCO of the environment. I work in a mixed environment windows and linux desktops. The windows side takes three to four times the amount of maintenance because the support guys spend at a minimum 70% of their day cleaning machines.
Got Code?
At the least, there should be a law requiring all installed programs to show up in the "Add/Remove Programs" dialog and actually remove themselves when told to do so...
This should be OPT-IN only, just like SPAM should be. It has to clearly state what it is and what it does, ie, it snoops and reports your every move whilr browsing and targets ads at you based on this. It should also be required to ask permission to install.
Any thing less and it should all be illegal, with large fines and loss of internet connection for that company, for 5 years. If that closes them down, so freakin what!
Professional Politicians are not the solution, they ARE the problem.
-
This is a slippery slope, people. You can make something illegal just because you don't like the idea of it. If people are installing this at-will, then there is nothing morally or ethically worng with it.
This is a rather optimistic view of things, I take it you've never run afoul of much ad/spy-ware. The issue isn't so much software that people willingly choose to install (although Gator and some others don't really warn you fairly about all the popup ads you'll be getting as a result) but about software that installs itself piggy-backed onto other software without warning. Most spy-ware especially is like this. Even once you find out it's there, getting rid of it takes an act of God, or at least 3rd-party software. Why? Because at best the company only provides a broken uninstaller, normally there is no uninstaller. Add in the fact they often don't show up under add/remove programs (let's face it, this is primarily a Windows-land issue) or even under program listings, and you have software that is NOT even trying to act like it's a legit install.The only 'spyware' that is problematic is the kind that installs itself by exploiting software bugs in browsers, and that is already illegal: it's called a virus.
So sorry, this isn't a slippery slope, this is about making the software companies that put this crap out start playing nicely and acting like good citizens of the online world, as oppossed to their current shady, back-alley actions.
The point is this: no legitimate software should install something that you don't want, period. Ads I can agree with, people gotta eat, but Spyware is showing complete disdain for your userbase and really insults them. That would be like a car dealer giving you a free car, equipping it with GPS, slowing down the engine, making it run like crap, installing a hidden camera, and then slashing the tires. Spyware companies are not very well known for following the law, so one would hope this does not provide loopholes and ends up legitimizing Spyware, as is happening with SPAM.
I hate sigs.
You people should be ashamed of yourselves. These people have the right to make money like everyone else!
This is the most common fallacy I see in today's political atmosphere. No one has the right to make money and the government's job isn't to make sure people with crappy ideas or products no one wants stay in business.
Newsflash to programmers: If people will work cheaper than you they will get your job.
Newsflash to farmers: Some crops don't grow well in some states.
Newsflash to RIAA: No one NEEDS you anymore, Musicians can produce without you and we can sure as hell distribute without you.
Newsflash to Unions: See Newsflash to programmers
Never confuse volume with power.
Is this any different from lawmakers doing things to protect the auto, oil, media, etc industries? They have an interest, because these companies pay for campaigns. They don't try to force down gas prices, they don't force too many radical automobile innovations, they don't try to keep cable prices down (except for token, known to be worthless, efforts)
I don't know of any spyware makers big enough to support politics, but who knows. Maybe Time Warner, or GE owns something we don't know about.
Just a thought.
-Patrick
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
All it takes is one death for the Food and Drug Administration to ban ephedra, when many people use it intelligently just fine. Those people don't need "protection"
In contrast, the FTC doesn't want to protect you because spyware "might hurt good software" Yes, let's leave open the possibility for malware, spam, Windows, etc., to take over your computer, steal your identity, wipe out your bank account, etc. Those things can also "kill" your livelihood, in a sense.
Bah.
It was a simple - and amusing - idea that an FTC commissioner would be named 'Swindle' - nomen erat omen and all that. It was not an ad hominem attack or an attempt to assassinate Mr. Swindle's character.
(603413 Posties - now with 100% of your recommended daily allowance of Latin!)
I want to drag this out as long as possible. Bring me my protractor.
Basically he is advocating a 'don't throw the baby out with the bath water' approach.
It's hard not to become cynical about the state of US "democracy" when spyware and spam illicit a "don't throw the baby out with the bathwater" response, but the DMCA slides through congress on a greased fast track.
Stop-Prism.org: Opt Out of Surveillance
Don't run IE!
Don't let your friends run IE, don't let your department run IE, just don't run IE!
Of course I'm preaching to the quire here but as spyware becomes more of an issue hopefully everyone else will wake up. Or better yet, maybe since MS is a convicted monopolist someone will force them to include other browsers with a default install.
Yes, this issue is bigger than just web browsers but this is a simple solution to many problems. If this page offered a little more diversity when you look at the "Web Browsers Used to Access Google" maybe MS would be forced to improve IE beyond a patch here and there to something approaching Opera or Mozilla.
Really, I know what I'm doing...Ohhhh, look at the shiny buttons!
Windows Messenger Service! What in the hell was Microsoft thinking when they allowed routable IP's to connect to Windows Messenger Service by default.
Seems like every time I thought I had it turned off, some damned windows update would turn it back on. Microsoft must have been paid off by spammers worried they couldn't use Email anymore, makes more sense than they're just that stupid.
Finaly bought a linksys router (which runs on Linux) to make the messenager spam go away for good.
Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
The future of advertising
Your home - In the near future
You are awakened in the middle of the night by the sound of the radio. You roll over and slap the alarm but the sound continues. You realize that it is coming from across the room and, instead of music, it is actually an advertisement for an enlargement pill. You stagger across the room and find a tape recorder glued to your wall.
As you turn off the tape recorder, you notice that a poster has been hung on the wall advertising a low-interest credit card. While staring in amazement at this poster, you hear another tape recorder blare to life out in the hallway.
You walk into the hallway to find this new racket. Switching on the light you discover posters hung every few feet on the walls, all advertising different products or services. In between each poster is a tape recorder. You turn off the tape recorder making the noise and another springs to life in the kitchen.
Swearing, you storm into the kitchen to find the same pattern of posters and tape recorders and even a flashing neon light attached to your window. As you turn off the tape recorder in the kitchen (and another starts up on the opposite side of the room), you notice that someone has pried open your back door.
Frightened now, you rush to the telephone to call the police. You pick up the telephone and dial 911. You put the receiver to your ear to speak to an officer, but instead you hear "Thank you for calling the all-night adult intimate chat line. Your phone bill will be charged at a rate of $500 per minute". You try again with the same results. You try 0 for the operator and 411 for information and its the same thing no matter who you call.
Horrified, you rush into the garage past a tape recorder asking if you are fat and a blinking neon sign declaring you to be today's winner. As you approach your car, you see that it has been spray painted with the address of a child porn web site.
You drive to the police station listening to an actor on the radio explain how you too can become a millionaire is just three weeks. You can't turn off the radio and the same thing is on every station.
You explain the situation to the police and they follow you to your home. You show them the crowbar used to bust open your back door. You show them the posters super glued to your wall. You point to the tape recorders scattered across the house.
The policemen take a few notes, then begin to leave. Confused, you ask them where they are going and they say "Sorry buddy, but there's nothing we can do here."
"What do you mean?" you ask. "Look at my house! Someone broke in and glued advertisements all over my walls."
"I see that. Unfortunately sir, no crime has been committed here."
"What do you mean no crime has been committed!? Look at this mess!"
"Yes sir, I see that. Unfortunately our government has decided not to make this sort of thing illegal. Instead, they have asked the advertising industry to regulate themselves and to follow 'Best Practices'".
"Best Practices?? What the hell does that mean? How can this possibly be legal??"
***
Internet advertising companies are out of control. The story above is fiction, but only in that I substituted a home in the place of a computer. What happened to the unfortunate individual in that story is exactly what is happening to countless millions of people every day when they turn on their home computers.
The Federal Trade Commission wants the industry to regulate itself. Will the people who distribute the coolwebsearch trojan voluntarily regulate themselves? I think not. To do what I described above to your home is illegal. Why should it be legal to do the exact same thing to your computer?