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MIT Studies Software Development Processes

IsoQuantic writes "A new MIT study (pdf) looked at SW development processes around the world. One striking difference that the researchers found for U.S. developers is the relatively small use of specifications before development begins. I can already hear my EP-zealot colleague chuckling in the cube next to me. (sigh)"

56 of 345 comments (clear)

  1. Not for me. But we learned by Allen+Zadr · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Specs!? Specs!? I don't need no stinking specificiations!

    I used to work in a very loose development shop. The only specifications that were ever written down were protocol specs - and even those were often "documented" in the form of a header file.

    I found some parts of this method usefull in that the specs were often written as as pseudo-code comments, and the actual code would be filled in later.

    However, eventually the development pool grew, and we got a few folks who couldn't follow this method, and we lost several weeks of work. After that standardized specificiation paperwork was produced for every project from that point on.

    Perhaps it's a lesson everyone will eventually learn. Perhaps I'm being an idiot.

    --
    Kinetic stupidity has a new brand leader: Allen Zadr.
  2. No problemo by nizo · · Score: 5, Funny

    Outsourcing these jobs should fix all these problems.

  3. How Ironic by SavedLinuXgeeK · · Score: 3, Insightful

    In my software engineering class, my teacher vehemently states that Requirements are the Enemy of Design. You need to have an idea of what you are doing for the project, but you honestly cannot know how much space it will take, how fast it will be, etc. Its sheer folly. And who isnt to say that a customer may realize that they want it differently as the process is going along. Design is dynamic, always growing and changing. And the Open Source Community best represents this, because a project never ends, but continues to develop in a myriad of directions.

    --
    je suis parce que j'aime
    1. Re:How Ironic by AmericanInKiev · · Score: 4, Insightful

      This is the real crux of the design people vs the architecure people.

      Requirement are how offshore houses get paid for uninspired work.

      You want software which will
      a. act like software already created by someone else (knock off)

      b. to be a metaphor for existing (and fixed) paperwork based processes

      Then you can consider a rigid design - which means you can consider outsourcing - but I ask, what novel piece of software was invented in a developing country?

      AIK

      (BTW the add on this page flashes my curser and disables my delete key - adds ok - flashy adds which interfere are a bit much)

    2. Re:How Ironic by clichekiller · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Requirements that are too rigid are bad. But so too are requirements that are too loose. You can't sit down at a computer to program without some idea of what result you want to end up at. Often proof-of-concept programs are helpful, but all too often management sees a demo that appears 80% feature complete and thinks the project is almost done. It leads to unrealistic expectations.

      The best trick I've ever seen for setting project goals is to sit developers down with business users or the end users of the product and have them observe work in action. This understanding can go a long way when a developer is back in the 'cube' for long hours of coding. Domain knowledge is critical to a developer. Otherwise you end up with some trully epic program that bears little to no pracitcal value.

      Requirements should be clear, reviewed often, and adjusted as necessary. Which requires a good project manager to really pull off succesfully.

      All in all programming is really a mixture of a lot of aspects and any one not in balance with the others will skew the results. Sometimes you'll still get something usefull, but more often then not the results are hideous. And management will always blame the developers and developers will always blame management, with the only difference being the developers don't have the ability to can management.

      --
      Sir, there is a dragon outside with an armful of armor. He's inquiring if we offer free refills.
    3. Re:How Ironic by Rob+Riggs · · Score: 3, Insightful
      In the business world, you are going to have to come up with a budget for your software projects. A project whose scope or length is not defined does not lend itself well to budget forecasting. And those project managers that cannot accurately forecast the time or cost of their projects are quickly without a job. And, oddly enough, many end up teaching at University.

      Thus illustrating some maxim or another...

      --
      the growth in cynicism and rebellion has not been without cause
    4. Re:How Ironic by metlin · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Quoteth the poster --

      And the Open Source Community best represents this, because a project never ends, but continues to develop in a myriad of directions.

      Yes, but thats both a blessing and a curse. The commercial customers want stability, not a build release everyday. Even amongst the Linux community, how many people use the latest release of any software? Most people stick the the most stable release - I still use Debian Woody.

      I have no problem with development, but the Open Source community should follow Debian's model and not release something (read Sarge) unless they're really sure its all done, and not release a version for every time feature add or small patch - have the fixes and patches as seperate entities and not as builds.

      This was a problem that was told to me by the CEO of a certain reasonably big product development software company - he felt that this lack of stability (or the perceived lack of) is what is scaring corporate customers away. And he was like, if Redhat withdraws support for their old distributions, it is indirectly asking us to upgrade - and that is not stability.

      Believe it or not, a lot of people out there compare stability to what IBM Mainframes provided - and sure, its not cutting edge and what not - but guess what? In a commercial enterprise, most often, it just needs to work and work well, for a lengthy periods of time. Period.

    5. Re:How Ironic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Space and Time requirements ("The system shall reply to queries in no more than .2 seconds and write no more than 650 megabytes per day to the log")are non-functional requirements. Other requirements ("The control system shall have an option to backup the log to tape") are functional requirements.

      Simply throwing out all requirements because non-functional requirements are difficult to estimate is absurd. That's why you make requirements but you make them flexible and reasonable. Of course, you can say that the customer doesn't know what they want and even if they do they can't explain it exactly. That's why you iterate through the process.

      A Software Requirements Specification document may even be a legally binding document for a development team.

      To say that requirements are an enemy of design is incomplete - there is a fine line between requirements that are 'too rigid' and 'nonexistant'. Somewhere there is a nice balance between requirements that are harsh and strict and requirements that are so loose they might as well not exist.

      If you get the customer involved, iterate through the requirements (entire software lifecycle) process, and make reasonable requirements, you'll be much better off. Personally, I would rather have in writing what the system should do than just have some kind of vague idea.

    6. Re:How Ironic by Brummund · · Score: 4, Insightful

      That might apply to applications like Gaim, Mozilla etc., but if you're working on applications solving business problems, you'll have know what you are supposed to do and approximately how long it will take.

      You can't honestly expect someone to pay you $50-100/hour if you can't give an estimate. So, what is required to make a qualified estimate?

      IMHO:

      1. Gut feeling

      2. Some experience in the field

      3. Add enough time to cope for silly things in your code that stops progress now and then (Those really hard to find in-your-face bugs)

      4. Realise there's a difference between time worked on the project and calendar time. You'll find you're using a lot of time waiting for others, configuration management (just getting through to a test server might take days, if the people managing the routers etc are incompetent,overworked, unwilling or just plain lazy or you're introducing some new infrastructure (like a new app server) etc.

      5. Divide the project into phases. I usually estimate time to make initial end-to-end contact if it is some kind of integration job, then the main development phase, and finally testing and deployument.

      6. Google for known problems with the systems you are using. (I once did a job involving MQSeries, Java and Linux. A google search helped me identify the problems I might face.)

      6. Add 20%

    7. Re:How Ironic by deadlinegrunt · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Seriously not trolling.

      Care to point out a tiny sample of "most" Open Source that follows this norm?

      In the interest of being taken seriously I will point out a few that I know of that seem rather well thought out:
      fltk
      FOX
      gcc
      Oh yeah, here
      and others

      You were modded informative yet I see nothing informative in your post. Perhaps because I have contributed to some of these projects and I am jaded? Perhaps because more work gets done in these projects than the corporate arena of closed source that I used to work in and I might be close minded and missing your point? It's a possiblity but I will try to become openminded in case I missed the informative part of your post.

      --
      BSD is designed. Linux is grown. C++ libs
    8. Re:How Ironic by po8 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      As someone who teaches SE at University, I say "amen" to the parent :-). Grandparent's teacher is either being misunderstood (likely) or an idiot. A post farther down in this thread points out that distinguishing functional from non-functional requirements is, uh, kind of important. So is understanding the idea of a "design constraint".

      Of course, "requirements are the enemy of design" sounds pretty cool, and it is true in a way. The important thing to notice is that at the end of the day, requirements always win. That is, no matter how cool the design is, if the product doesn't do what it is supposed to, it is useless. If the product meets requirements, it really doesn't matter what design got it to that point: it's fine. Given that, you might think that it would be a good idea to know what you need to build before you start designing it. You'd be right.

      Grandparent, make sure you aren't completely misinterpreting your teacher's position. If you are not, drop the course. In grad school, I dropped my SE course because my (mighty famous) teacher was so ignorant. It didn't preclude me from learning the field to the point where I teach regularly in a professional SE MS program.

    9. Re:How Ironic by Daniel+Dvorkin · · Score: 3, Insightful

      In the business world, you are going to have to come up with a budget for your software projects. A project whose scope or length is not defined does not lend itself well to budget forecasting. And those project managers that cannot accurately forecast the time or cost of their projects are quickly without a job. And, oddly enough, many end up teaching at University.

      Funny, I've had the opposite experience: my CS professors always wanted carefully planned projects with specified scope and length, but my boss has me working on an open-ended project that will probably go on basically forever. The more real-world development experience I have, the less impressed I am with any of the "software engineering" doctrine about planning and specifications, and the more value I place on just writing the damn code.

      --
      The correlation between ignorance of statistics and using "correlation is not causation" as an argument is close to 1.
    10. Re:How Ironic by TopShelf · · Score: 3, Insightful

      In my experience, the failures in the spec'ed out projects that you describe occur because the Business Guys are responsible for writing the specs, and the IS Guys do the design to meet those specs. The problem is that the Business Guys don't think like IS Guys, and can't get down to the level of specificity required to better ensure success. The IS Guys then pick up these vague specs, do their best, but usually get caught in a cycle of rework as the users complain "you gave me what I asked for, but not what I need..."

      What is needed is for more IS analysts to actually work for the line organization, rather than within the IS department. When the analysts sit within IS, it's far too easy to lay blame on the users.

      --
      Stop by my site where I write about ERP systems & more
    11. Re:How Ironic by john82 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      In my software engineering class, my teacher vehemently states that Requirements are the Enemy of Design.

      There is a reason why your professor is teaching rather than doing.

      Most of software development in the real world is NOT a free-form pursuit of artistic expression. More likely you will find yourself working on software that is part of a larger system. And because it's part of a system, the components need to be able to work together on a number of levels. Lack of proper requirements management in a large scale software development effort is what leads to lawsuits. It also leads to solutions in search of a problem. VC-funded dot bombs that end up in the waste bin (instead of /bin). Further, if there are no requirements there's no way to test it. If there's no way to test it, you aren't going to be paid. That's life in the real world.

    12. Re:How Ironic by 4of12 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Requirements that are too rigid are bad. But so too are requirements that are too loose.

      I like requirements that are rigid on the edge, that is where they meet the world.

      But then give me free rein to change ideas for the internal structure.

      Of course, it always helps if you know your customers well enought to anticipate the inevitable change request that will come down the pike. Then, you'll see if your internals can be readjusted elegantly quickly to accomodate the new exposed services they want.

      It's important to listen to customers, not just to hear what they're saying explicitly, but to get an idea of where they're going and what they might want in the future based on what they believe is important and valuable. Hint: customers/users may not just tell you explicitly what they think is important and valuable.

      --
      "Provided by the management for your protection."
  4. Re:Not for me. But we learned by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    when working in R&D, the specs is always a step behind the cutting edge...

  5. That's because in the US... by the_skywise · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Our managers don't GIVE us development specs, or keep changing the specs every 5 minutes so that a formal document is worthless.

    Or, in my personal experience, we stick to a formal document for 3/4 of the product then get hit with feature creep for the last 1/4 which makes the product late, buggy, over budget, etc, etc, etc

    Sure, I've tried instituting "processes" and management's alwasy keen on the idea. But when push comes to shove, >poof.

    The only time management ever stuck with a process was the medical company that, by law, required governmental oversight that demanded process. And you don't want to know how much we skirted process anyway. (Most of the times we built the product first, then wrote the "planning" documentation second.)

    1. Re:That's because in the US... by JosKarith · · Score: 5, Interesting

      God, don't talk to me about feature creep. ATM I'm involved in writing a stock control system and every fortnight there's a meeting about it - that tends to tack on 1 week of re-writes, 1 week of error testing last meeting's new features, and 1 week of new features...
      and they wonder why no progress is ever made

      --
      'Don't worry' said the trees when they saw the axe coming, 'The handle is one of us.'
    2. Re:That's because in the US... by Fermata · · Score: 3, Insightful

      This has been my experience as well. I've worked as a software developer on dozens of consulting projects in North America and Western Europe, and the US managers prefer to work from "intuition" and "feel" rather than the rigorously specified requirements and design that the Europeans insist upon.

      I personally believe that there are merits and drawbacks to both approaches and that the ideal is somewhere between formal and informal approaches.

      The informal, intuitive approach can result in a deliverable that is a much closer fit to the actual needs of the client - not just what they think they want or what they can express in words. A good informal manager circulates through the entire target organization from management, to accounting, to the IT department, to the users, and sometimes even to the client's own customers. Through a process of information osmosis, the manager constructs a feel of what the deliverable really needs to be and directs the team accordingly. Obviously, this approach works best when the project manager is damn good (sharp *and* experienced) and the development team is small and works well together. The main drawback, of course, is a tendency to chaotic development as things are written and rewritten to hit a moving target.

      The formal approach is reliable, predicatable, and safe. Maybe what you deliver will not be a perfect match for the unspoken requirements that inevitably surface during the project lifecycle, but at least you have a better chance of delivering *something*.

      I wonder, however, with the growing pool of cheap outsourced labor, if the paint-by-numbers formal software approach is really the best answer for the US going forward. If a project is specified in sufficient detail, then anyone can do the development. Perhaps the intuitive, informal approach is the only competitive advantage a US team can offer going forward - a dream team of software magicians rather than a clockwork team of software engineers.

  6. Re:Not for me. But we learned by Brummund · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I have learned the same lesson. I hate bureaucracy as much as the next guy, but I really like having a good specification. Most of the programming I do is related to various forms of messaging, and having a detailed spec containing

    a) The purpose of the integration (business concepts)
    b) The protocol
    c) Examples. Lots of examples

    makes the whole process a lot easier.

    Especially the business concepts are important. They allow me to foresee where changes and extensions may occur, and I then put more work into those parts.

    If you're fortunate enough to have a good project leader, use him to communicate with the other parts involved and make him also document all the changes in the protocol. That will save you a lot of time on the phone and quite a few 'tail -f /var/log/myapp.log' :-)

  7. Productivety can jump without specs by MrRTFM · · Score: 4, Interesting

    In a small team - say 3-8 people, you can get a hell of a lot more done without formal specs. and it is usually exactly what the customer wants.
    Of course, this never works in real life because managers want documents to mark the progress against their gannt charts so they always interfere with the "make sure you spec it properly", and the manager on the other team will say "dont do a damn thing until you see a signed off spec"

    Shit - its no wonder commercial software costs so much.

    --
    You can't expect to wield supreme executive power, just because some watery tart threw a sword at you
    1. Re:Productivety can jump without specs by goldspider · · Score: 4, Insightful
      So then you're saying that this team figures out exactly what the customer wants on a blind guess?

      As a gov't employee, I understand first-hand how frustrating it can be to get useful, realistic requirements from our customers (other gov't folks). And I'll also agree that unnecessary beaurocracy can baloon development cost.

      But unless you maintain good communication with your customers, you're bound to get it wrong. If you suspect they either don't really know what they're asking for, it's better to clarify that with them than to decide for yourselves what they really want.

      --
      "Ask not what your country can do for you." --John F. Kennedy
    2. Re:Productivety can jump without specs by bug-eyed+monster · · Score: 3, Insightful

      ... I understand first-hand how frustrating it can be to get useful, realistic requirements from our customers...

      I'm not sure if you meant this to sound the way it does, but you've pointed out my pet peeve:

      The customer is not the proper person to write the specs. Specs must be written by a skilled analyst who can observe and communicate with the customers in a manner to determine what is required.

      I've seen too many projects go down the drain because they were completely useless. They were completely useless because the specs described a system that was useless to the customer. Because the specs were written by the customer. Because the project manager simply asked the customer "what do you want this system to do?"

      Customers are usually qualified to do their job, not to write specs for software system. It's the project manager's responsibilty to hire a qualified requirements gatherer (a lot of times a usability engineer is good for this) who will spend a lot of time with the customer, interviewing them, observing them work with their current methods, etc. There is much more to this than collecting specs written by the customer and putting them in a standard format.

      Requirements written by the right person will make a project much more successful, requirements written by the wrong person will definitely ruin the project.

  8. Fun read but ... by Politicus · · Score: 5, Insightful
    The disclaimer in this article says it all:
    But, as is common in this type of research, due to the extreme variations in performance from project to project, it is hard to draw any definite conclusions.

    And of all the praise they lavish on Japan and Indian the conclusion brings it back to reality with:

    It is important to remember, as well, that no Indian or Japanese company has yet to make any real global mark in widely-recognized software innovation, which has long been the province of U.S. and a few European software firms.
    --
    Politicus
  9. Just one? by signingis · · Score: 5, Funny
    "... I can already hear my EP-zealot colleague chuckling in the cube next to me. (sigh)"

    Shouldn't that be colleagues? :)

    --

    I prefer a void in conversation to a vacuous one.
  10. Worthless Study by Subotai · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Quite frankly this study is worthless. As a business owner, here is what I really want to know. Who is best at producing a product that meets my customer's needs the quickest and cheapest, has great uptime and the fewest bugs. I could give a rats ass how you did it, as long as it meets the above and it is documented.

    -Subotai

    --
    "The only way to catch tiger cubs is to go into the tiger's den."
  11. Specifications? by Rorschach1 · · Score: 5, Funny

    Hah! I'm halfway through my current project, as indicated by the constantly shrinking schedule, and I haven't even had to have ANY specifications or requirements to get to this point!

    However, they HAVE managed to change the name of the project on me at least three times, and our last two-hour meeting was consumed by a lively debate on what to call a particular form, so it's not like these critical planning issues are being neglected.

  12. Re:They needed an MIT study to determine this? by falzer · · Score: 4, Funny

    Being creative isn't in the requirements.

  13. Re:Not for me. But we learned by AmericanInKiev · · Score: 4, Insightful

    When you use specification - you are making the "customer" the deisgn engineer.

    I highly doubt the "customer" is going to deisgn great software.

    for example.

    A thousand customers could say I need a tool that lets me input the various factors of my budget and look at what the sums will be.

    But how many could say - I need a program with a grid of flexible cells which can hold a value or a formula?

    AIK

  14. and now that I've read the conclusion by Steve_Jobs_HNIC · · Score: 3, Funny

    well now that I've read the conclusion, the author seems to agree that Bender is from India. :)

    page 20 conclusion
    "It is important to remember, as well, that no Indian or Japanese company has yet to make any real global mark in widely-recognized software innovation, which has long been the province of U.S. and a few European software firms."

  15. To a large extent.. by manavendra · · Score: 5, Informative

    Having worked in America, UK and India, I can certainly relate to the findings of the report. Here are some of my personal experiences:

    - In America, they are in a tearing hurry to produce a prototype/model/proof of concept, which of course forms the basis of initial release ("it works, doesn't it? so why re-write it?")

    - Gathering requirements is a pain in the wrong end - I've seen all sorts of instances - CFO disagreeing with CTO and re-writing everything, PO Manager introducing something new that CFO promptly over-rules. At the end of the allocated gatherings period you have a hash of what each stakeholder at the company wants. Needless to say, there is a lot of fun in ensuing months - Most American customers do not like to spend time on discussing/analysing progress or answering questions during the development (yes, I agree they shouldn't crop but, but most times they do).

    - As a natural progression, the aspirations change over time. By the time it's written and demo-ed they want it to do 10 different things and pipe-up about how they had "already" mentioned they wanted this cool new feature. The signed copy of requirements specifications sure helps :-)

    - In Britain though, they pore over every single email the PM/Team Lead sends. Tremendous emphasis at every single aspect ("We are bloody payin you for this, aren't we?")

    In India though, life is Sh*t. The documentation team, the process team and the internal audit teams sort of join hands to drown you in sh*tload of paperwork. It's good to have processes, but IMHO, they just get carried away and want copious detailed documents about everything and anything...Unless they develop tools to automate and regulate the processes, it is gruelling and something no-one looks forward to...err, except the audit team :-)

    --
    http://efil.blogspot.com/
  16. Re:Not for me. But we learned by Garion911 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    There's a difference between a spec and a design..

    SPec documents are the "what" the customer wants.

    Design documents are the "how"...

    --
    Slashdot is like Playboy: I read it for the articles
  17. Re:Not for me. But we learned by Allen+Zadr · · Score: 3, Funny
    That's why I was always fond of the pseudo-code spec. The lead, or they guy with the idea would check-out the appropriate pieces of code from the development stream, and fill in the pseudo-code with what they wanted done.
    /** Expansion of Commentary to get point across:
    * Use .. int funcSpec(char *example)
    * -- NOTE: funcSpec() will have to be expanded to
    * allow for me getting this point across.
    */

    ... This really worked well, until a bunch of new people merely thought they knew what the pseudo-code meant - it was obvious to us long timers.
    --
    Kinetic stupidity has a new brand leader: Allen Zadr.
  18. Another good argument by Da+Fokka · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Apart from the classic Software Engineering advantages of a proper design document, it can also save you the problems which can arise if the customer and the supplier have different ideas about the eventual product.
    I've seen it happen way too often; the expectations of customers can be very unrealistic simply because they have no knowledge about software engineering.
    Having a complete design document with two signatures can prevent 'just add this one little feature'-type problems.

  19. When do we need specs by iceco2 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    When I work by myself or with one or two developers
    who I know well and get along with(and talk a lot with) We can get by with practicly no specifications even with a coding which lasts several months.
    You can split up the work by writing header files first and that usually does the trick.Obviously this
    cuts down on development time.

    However I had on several ocasions needed to join in on a project which has been going on for sevral years, and I found it much much easier to start working quickly on the projects with more specs.
    I am currently on a project run by a man who is quite anal about specs and standards and documentation, and organized testing. The result is that I spend more time dealing with standards then programing but It greatly increases the quality of the code, it makes the throwing out a week of work for incompatebilty impossible, And perhaps most importantly it makes getting aquainted with a diffrent part of the project very easy.

    As for EP, I have seen it work well and I have seen it fail miserably. I have not yet gathered enogh expirience with EP to identify what makes it work.

    Me.

    P.s I am not a US resident, nor did I study in the US.

  20. Lack of Specs from Lack of Time by Ducati_749S · · Score: 3, Interesting

    While I'm not disagreeing that U.S. Developers may not spend enough time in design before starting to build, I don't think that the blame always lies with the developers. My personal experience has been that, for every missing design doc or spec, there is someone in sales who shaved a week off of the estimate the developers gave them for building the solution. If MIT is studying the Software Development Processes, maybe Harvard should do a study on the Software Development Sales process, and on why US companies have developed the mentality that it is ok to give developers less time than they need to complete development, and even better to base the timeline of a project on developers working 65 hour weeks when they know damn well that they are salaried employees and thus get no overtime.

    --
    What about the twinkie? - Dr. Peter Venkman, PHD
  21. Who precisely was studied? by Fringe · · Score: 5, Interesting
    I'm a developer who travels a lot on business. Denmark and London last week, back in Washington this week. If I was to look at the average developement shop or developer, I'd probably agree.

    But if I look at those that aren't suffering much right now, those doing well, I see that most of the successful U.S. deveopers and shops also specify things out. But, because we don't live and die by the regulation (those being cradle-to-grave parts of much of the world), we can also be more flexible more quickly. And we can prototype from the seat of our pants quickly.

    A down side of "flexibility" though is that we often get called "not team players" if we don't instantly cow to the calls from sales and marketing every time a new feature idea pops up. One of my co-workers calls this "chasing butterflies", the lack of focus that results in never finishing anything. That's the downside that leads to bugs and slow development... and failed companies. But many more successful companies, including most of the ones I've been at, have actual product life cycles. There really are two tiers or classes of development companies that way.

    The question is, why are there so many undisciplined shops? I think the answer is the easy money of the past. Suddenly we (developers) weren't being managed by engineers and developers, but rather by CFOs, shareholders and sales people. As the crunch continues, I suspect corporate Darwinism will continue and we'll scale back to more methodical practices again.

  22. EP?...EP?!! by RicochetRita · · Score: 4, Funny
    It's everyone knows it's XP for eXtreme Programming, as in snowboarding, Mt Dew, ESPN2... (but Not that Windows recent release).
    So, crack open a cold one and check out my double nested for-loop ollie nose-grind, dude!!

    And who says we're zealots?! ;-) RRR

    --
    Stuff that matters: circuitbreakers, vacuum-cleaners coffee makers, calculators generators, matching salt+pepper shakers
    1. Re:EP?...EP?!! by curunir · · Score: 3, Funny

      That's why I've never understood XP...when I'm pulling a nollie varial 360, I have problems even holding a laptop, let alone trying to write code. Granted, it's substantially easier whilst street luging, but the laptop introduces a a lot of wind resistance...and if you're not event going to hit 60, there really isn't much point to street luge.

      --
      "Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos!"
  23. Re:Not for me. But we learned by Resseguie · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Maybe that's the problem. Too many times we worry about creating the "grid of flexible cells" and forget that the real user just wants to "input the various factors". There's a good usability lesson to be learned here...

  24. Re:Not for me. But we learned by AmericanInKiev · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Still - it is only what the customer THINKS he wants on day one with far less experience in computer techniques.

    Customer says he want a report - but in reality he want to understand his business.

    An OLAP server can help him understand his business, a crystal report can start him down a long road of report modifications which in the end will lead him to 1. an unmanagable pile of confusing reports or, b. an OLAP cube.

    The design process is to understand the need of the customer - not have the customer specify how or what the solution will be.

    If you provide the solution the customer specifies - you will be run out of business when he reads the next business journal anout how to do omething better.

    You had beter know what he is going to read next if you intend on being a solution provider for very long.

    AIK

  25. Here's our development process: by Thavius · · Score: 5, Interesting

    1. Get an idea and start working on it immediately.
    2. Stop work on it to fix a bug, release the bug fix immediately.
    3. Work on the idea again, but slightly changed.
    4. When about 80% done, switch to new idea or "gotta have" feature.
    5. Code like hell on original idea because it was released in its incomplete form and has now killed puppies.
    6. Rinse, repeat.

    All the while there's very little documentation, most of it being whatever I do.

    Great, isn't it? That's how it was. I've taken control and actually have implemented a release schedule and proper bugfix releasing. I've also just gotten a QA guy, things are looking up. The processes before I got here made me wake up at night. Lo and behold, with the new processes, the phones don't ring as much.

    Ahh, the joys of a very small company.

  26. "New study from MIT" ? by oneiros27 · · Score: 3, Funny

    Anyone else find it odd that the first page of this supposed 'new' study was marked June 2003? And the second page said it's version 3.1.

    Which goes to show -- even if we had specifications for these things, we're just going to gloss over the details, and do whatever the hell we want, anyway. People don't read what's sitting in front of them, unless it's on some blog, it seems. If it were really important, they'd have made a TV show out of it.

    [and those of you with moderator points get to vote if you think sarcasm is funny -- you can select 'troll' to vote no, 'funny' to vote yes. 'overrated' if you'd like to abstain, and 'insightful' if you read the first line, and are just trying to burn your moderator points]

    --
    Build it, and they will come^Hplain.
  27. College Professors by bsd4me · · Score: 4, Insightful

    In my software engineering class, my teacher vehemently states that Requirements are the Enemy of Design.

    Unfortunately, a lot of college professors are out of touch with reality. Software development is such a diverse area that you really can't generalize.

    For example, I worked for a long time in embedded firmware and digital signal processing, both on mega- and micro-projects. You need to design to requirements for these. There can be creativity in how you impelment a design, but the bottom line is the spec. If you don't design to the spec, the satellite falls out of the sky.

    Currently, I am working in multimedia, and we don't really use specs. We have high-level goals, but even these are fuzzy. Here, requirements are more of a hindrance, but we still have to draw the line in the sand for some things.

    --

    (S(SKK)(SKK))(S(SKK)(SKK))

  28. Re:Not for me. But we learned by gbjbaanb · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I think its more like:

    Requirements are what the customer wants.
    Specifications are what he's actually going to get
    Design is how the analyst thinks it should be done.

  29. Bullet proof specs. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Bullet proof specs. are very hard to write.

    I spent many years as a low level civil servant; so none of what I am telling about is my fault :-)

    To make a pile of money on a government contract, do the following:

    1 - Bid on the contract EXACTLY as the tender is written (no matter how stupid the tender is). This is what the government will stick you with. If somebody else bids on the tender the way it should be and comes in cheaper that's ok. The government will stick them with the stupid specs in the tender and they will lose money! They go out of business and you now have one less competitor. **Include a generous hourly rate for 'extras'. Make sure that 'extras' are cost plus.

    2 - Build the project EXACTLY as tendered and bid.

    3 - (This is the important step) Discover that the project will not work as designed and tendered.

    4 - Fix the project at public expense. This is the part where you apply the 'extras'.

    5 - Profit! Note the lack of question marks at any stage of this process.

    Specs are fine but they are no replacement for wisdom. If you need to cya then use specs. Otherwise, take them for what they're worth.

  30. Re:Not for me. But we learned by stray · · Score: 4, Funny

    What the customer wants and what he needs are different things too.. as illustrated here (no idea where it came originally from, if you have the proper credits, please post them)

  31. Philosophies in the extreme by superid · · Score: 4, Interesting
    Several years ago I worked on a well funded ($1M+) software development project that was specified with a handful of requirement statements. Those requirements basically all fit on two sheets of paper. "The user will be able to import XYZ..." etc.

    There was a little back and forth discussion, but basically the requirements were hammered out in a few days. The development team of about 5 coders took these requirements and over the next 6-8 months we used a "release early, release often" strategy. We called it "Build a little - Test a little", basically we had a GUI designer cranking out do-nothing screens, while the rest filled in the guts one function at a time.

    We ended up essentially almost on time and almost on budget. The project was WILDLY successful and still in use 7 years later.

    We have been funded now to produce Version 3 of this product. Most of the team has moved on, including the chief architect who drove the implementation philosophy and he's been replaced by someone who has embraced specifications like a baby marmoset clings to it's mother.

    Since December, we have done NOTHING but attend meetings and write excruciatingly detailed requirements documents, and crank out UML diagrams. Not a line of code has been written (besides a bit of prototyping).

    I'm doing it because I have to. I see a lot of extra labor cost (I estimate at least $250k so far) and I don't think this process has helped us. I think we could have created an entire prototype since December and thrown it all away and been ahead of the game (assuming we'd learned valuable info from our mistakes)

  32. The true professional plan: by Mr.+Piddle · · Score: 3, Funny


    7. Add 20% (I'm almost there...)

    8. Add 20% (Just another two weeks...)

    9. Add 20% (Darn these last minute bugs...)

    10. Add 20% (Testing takes time, you know...)

    11. Add 20% (They want "web based" now...)

    12....

    --
    Vote in November. You won't regret it.
  33. Napster, Gnutella by iamacat · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Made in USA much earlier :-)

  34. Testing is bad for development by rocker_wannabe · · Score: 3, Interesting

    As a System Test Engineer, I especially liked this part of the summary

    "Finally, more time and effort spent on testing and integration had a negative effect on overall development time."

    One thing most people don't realize is that 99% of the time, only a small percentage of a program actually gets executed. Much of a program is error checking or handling of unusual events and doesn't get executed if the customer uses the program the way the programmer intended. The only reason that most commercial software is usable at all is because of this. So of course, testing and integration has a negative impact on development time.

    Most software companies know this and develop software to be "good enough" since being anywhere near bug-free before shipping the first version requires too much time and effort. Software companies are "gambling" that the bugs that are left aren't bad enough to sour their customers on the product. IMHO, American companies are generally much bigger risk takers than foreign companies. This leads to either a spectacular success or a catastrophic failure

    I would like to see the U.S. government start to punish software companies that take large risks with investors capital. I believe a lot of companies die because of poor implementation and not necessarily because of a poor idea. I can't think of anything easier to screw up then software development and it has been considered just an ordinary risk of running a business. I worked for a software company that was run by a man that, from what I saw, didn't give a hoot whether the software worked or not. As long as the IPO produced a lot of money he was happy.

    There are many ways to reduce the risk of producing a worthless software program, including certifying programmers, code reuse, and more testing. I know most people don't want to invite the government to enact more regulations but the software industry doesn't seem to be regulating itself. There is a huge crisis brewing on the horizon and nothing seems to be getting better. If the millions lost on government computer systems, like the IRS modernization, isn't enough, we have the potential for a Microsoft virus to wipeout millions of users data.

    "whenever you gamble, my friend, eventually you'll lose." - Qui-Gon Jinn
    --
    "Meaningless!, Meaningless!" says the Teacher. "Utterly meaningless!"
  35. Re:Not for me. But we learned by Maddog2030 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    You completely missed the point. No one is forcing anything on to the customer. But quite simply, if you have EVER worked in the software industry designing custom systems for customers, you will know that the customer generally doesn't know what they want exactly. They have a vague idea and assume that you have the same idea they do in your head.

    The requirements process is where you get your specifications from the customer about what he or she wants. Design is a completely seperate stage. The requirements are something you both agree on, but its not just something the customer sends to you. You give them feedback about the requirements. Perhaps they are contradictory, perhaps there are better ways to do things. This part is crucial in that the more time you put into this, the more information you will fish out of the customer, and you'll be more confident that you and they will know what the software is supposed to exactly do.

    The golden rule in software engineering is the requirements are going to change. You just have to accept it. Why do requirements change? Well, usually its because the customer finally realizes that what they got and what they actually wanted were two different things. And thus you make the necessary changes until the next time they come back looking for you...

    How many times have you downloaded a program think it has everything you want, until you use it and then realize theres something more it needs?

    Think about something like Mozilla. It's be a sufficient browser for a while now. But once people got it, started using it, they thought to themselves "Now I need tabs!". And thus the evolution of software...

  36. RIGHT ON!! by Bozdune · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This series of comments by AIK is profound. Please get off your apple-pie-and-motherhood methodology soapboxes and pay attention.

    Customers do NOT know what they want. Anyone who thinks that they do, hasn't spent enough time architecting software.

    What AIK is saying is that you have to dig deeper than the customer requirements. You have to understand the space. You have to look at competitive products. You have to anticipate unstated needs. You should ask, "When I'm all done, and everything is working perfectly, what changes will the customer want IMMEDIATELY?"

    I can't stand people who listen for five minutes and start to write "use cases" right away. That works for some dumbass web site, maybe, but certainly not for any involved product design.

    Architects need to plot an intercept strategy several YEARS in the future. That's how you build successful software. When the customer puts his Phase N requirements out for bid, and all your competitors run for the hills, your design has anticipated his needs. You've built metatables instead of tables. You've used OLAP where you could have sleazed by with an RDBMS. And so on.

    Great thread.

    1. Re:RIGHT ON!! by Neumann · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Its always nice to know that you can depend on death, taxes and people who read slashdot still dont read the articles before they post...

      The data that the authors of the articles collected seems to indicate that using either the standard waterfall technique (with its heavy dependence on specs) and using newer methods (what they call sync-and-stabilize referring to the heavier dependence on building product and having that product used by the users) result in the same level of bugs, and the same level of developer efficiency. The real interesting part of the whole article is that it seems that the Japanese are doing something truly innovative as they have bug levels that are a scale of magnitude smaller than everywhere else!

  37. Re:Not for me. But we learned by Dashing+Leech · · Score: 4, Interesting
    This all sounds like an arguement about whether the Waterfall approach (Requirements->Design->Code>Test&Validat e) is better than the Rational Unified Process (iterative) or similar. I'm not a coder, but I think each one has their place.

    In my experience, RUP seems far better. The customer rarely knows exactly what they want. At best they'll have an idea of what they want it to do and can visualize how they think it might work. So you start with a loose set of requirements, do some quick high-level design, and code it. Then show the customer what you've got. They can identify what is different from what they want and see some of the issues they may not have thought about. This defines some lower level requirements and designs. Repeat this process on a regular basis and you will get good, well-written, and efficiently created software.

    I've had nightmares with the Waterfall process. I've had to spend 6 months writing requirements and design docs, formally releasing them, then have 2 weeks left to write the code so the software wasn't nearly as good as it should have (or could have) been. In the end, the requirements and design had some inconsistencies that could not be foreseen until you try to code them.

    On another project (that I was not involved in) all of the money went into the requirements and design process and the end software was crap, wasn't user friendly, and didn't get used. But it did meet the requirements.

    The problem with writing requirements completely before coding is that you have to basically do the design and coding in your head as you write the requirements, otherwise you can end up with things that are inconsistent. Written language doesn't have to be self-consistent, software does.

    On the otherhand, writing software without following any guidance from the customer is definitely worse.

  38. Why no specs by Brandybuck · · Score: 3, Interesting

    As an employee of a US division in a German corporation, I think I can shed some light on why US developers skimp on specifications:

    We're too busy coding.

    The truth is that commercial development schedules are unrealistic. If it would take two years to do a project correctly, only eighteen months will be allocated. This leaves the developer in a quandary over which part of the process to skimp on. US developers choose to skimp on specifications, while German developers choose to skimp on implementation.

    That's my experience anyway. I've seen specs from Germany that are so padded I think the author must have stock in a paper mill. And I've seen the incomplete software that arose from it. In one instance a product was shipped that was completely unusable, whose only sales the first year were to the sales department as demos, but which won a corporate award for adherence to the process.

    It's simply a different way of working. To the US developer, if you can't do it right, at least make it work. To the German developer, if you can't do it right, at least go through each step of the waterfall model thoroughly and methodically until your time is up.

    Just about every corporation views the process as more important than the product. But their individualistic and rebellious nature means that US developers will work on the product anyway. But German developers will just do what they're paid to do.

    --
    Don't blame me, I didn't vote for either of them!