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Spammer Sues SpamCop
wolfgang writes "Just wanted to send you word that notorious spammer Scott Richter, President of Email marketing firm OptinRealBig.com, has filed suit against Ironport, which runs anti-spam site Spamcop. According to Richter, Spamcop's initiatives have damaged the reputation of his company. Richter filed for $1 million in damages. A similar suit one year ago, filed by Eddy Marin and his Florida-based Emarketersamerica.org against Spamhaus, was thrown out of court last October." We've mentioned Richter before.
If spam was illegal, this case would never hold up. But seeing as unsolicited e-mail is still totally legal, this case just might make it through.
Sidenote: In america, our first ammendment (Freedom of speech) rights SHOULD protect spammers. It will be up to the private sector to create efficient ways of blocking spam. Enacting new laws to regulate spam, only regulate more of our lives, when a companies could compete to stop spam.
Other sidenote: AOL does not want to stop spam. Hotmail limits you to 100 messages a day. My server no longer gets ANY hotmail spam. AOL has not taken this route, ovbiously they are pro-spam
OMG OMG OMG WTF OMG WTF BBQ STFU RTFM, OMFG OMG OMG OMG ROFL LMAO OMG WTF STFU ROFLMAO
Can-Spam Law Meets Its First Test
On the contrary, I think the organizations/companies you mentioned believe they ARE in fact entitled to make a dime!
"Ask not what your country can do for you." --John F. Kennedy
Well at least SpamCop can afford to defend itself now since it was bought by Ironport, a company that produces hardware that's designed to spam. Ironic really, biting the hand the feeds you.
Isn't that a lot like suing the credit reporting companies because you went bankrupt and they put you on their "do not extend credit" list? You could call it "tortious interference" with your ability to get a credit card or a mortgage.
I think that's been tried many times and hasn't worked. Why would this?
Because the credit card company can show up in court with contracts that indicate you really did agree to pay that debt, and then you didn't. They can spread bad facts about you because they can bring supporting documents that stand behind those facts.
Unfortately... you can't exactly prove the negative that says you never did opt in to get Ricter's e-mails. In fact, if you're willing to give him your e-mail address, he'll gladly tell you when and where you agreed that he could send you e-mail about anything he wants to. And if you send him a proper unsubscribe request, he really will unsubscribe you.
One bullet-proof defense to all complaints of slander and libel is "It's true!". However, if you can't prove the truth of that statement, you're not going to get to use that defense.
someone should send tons and tons of spam to the judge before the ruling.. :)
That might not be a bad idea actually, if we all configured our spam filters to forward all spams from Richter back to his personal and company email addresses asking to be removed.
I've been using spamcop for at least a year. Been using their free spam reporting service, the 5 second delay doesn't bother me.
The satisfaction of reporting spam through spamcop far outweighs the time spend doing it. And it allows reporting of spam, without sending an email, which keeps my email address private.
The one problem I've had with SpamCop is that it was failing to pick up the web site urls referenced in the spams. I recently discovered, however, if I "view source" of the spam, and paste the source of the spam into the correct field (I go to the SpamCop web site through a bookmark, not by forwarding email), that by pasting the spam source, the urls of the email addresses referenced are also picked up.
Hearing about a spammer attacking SpamCop, I've decided to join the premium service, and send some funds to an organization or individual whose service I enjoy using and find useful.
So expect a payment from me today, SpamCop, via the disgusting PayPal service.
Snotty Scotty was interviewed on the Daily Show. He claims to be a "high volume email deployer" and not a spammer. He also claims that "People look forward to receiving mail. They call us. Email us. 'We didn't get our offer today. What did we miss?' We're like calm down, it's coming. Ya know, people enjoy getting email about our via-gel. People enjoy getting email about our energizer." Piece of work, huh?
c 4c01.como m
g eekpost.com
The best quote of the show is this one, though:
Daily Show: "Why do you think the government doesn't want you making $20,000 a day?"
Richter: "Well, that's simple. That's the easiest question there is. Because the US Postal service is saying 'Hey, we need help. We're getting killed here. This guy can send email. He's not wiping out the rain forest. So what are we gonna do with all these little white trucks? We either gotta get this guy to pay 37 cents and buy some stamps... or we're done.'"
Scott's OptInRealBig has spammed almost everyone I know. Noone opted in. Placing an email address on a website does not consitute opting in.
If you're using the Spamhaus SBL to block incoming mail connections, you're already blocking OptInRealBig. If you're not, you can filter on the following domains:
optinrealbig.com
cpaempire.com
optinbig.com
bluerocketonline.com
ss01.net
dfmmb.c
ew01.com
ss01.net
tekmailer.com
moosq.com
Auto-reply to ACs: "Truly, you have a dizzying intellect."
Collect the facts you have, make darned sure they are all 100%, hand them to SpamCop. They use it in this suit to disprove the "they just dont remember" statement ( 1 counterexample disproves a claim... ). Be ready to testify.
Be ready to testify. When doing so, be ready to state your name, phyiscal address, and e-mail address for the public record...
So the non-Richter spammers can then pick up your e-mail address off that record... talk about a can't win situation!
Thanks for that info. I'll spam that email address and fax number and see how those bastards like it. I'll also get their phone number to a psychic hotline.
;)
I read an article somewhere about faxing carbon paper (all black) continuously by taping 2 sheets of it together in a loop so it would go on and on and waste all their ink. hehe perfect time to try it.
Richter's actually using a legal principle that the anti-SCO people are also using.
When somebody goes walking around spreading FUD against you, saying that you're breaking the law and are going to get sued... you can go to court and effectively file their lawsuit against you for them. You basically sue them seeking either the FUD-spreaders shutting up, or them actually filing the lawsuit and going forward with it.
Richter's claiming SpamCop's spreading FUD against him, the same way SCO is spreading FUD agaisnt Linux users... just because the majority opinion of somebody is low here at Slashdot doesn't take away their rights in court.
I recommend something like the Mossberg Model 500 or Remington 870 12ga. Consider: a single cartridge of 12ga 00 buckshot contains nine pellets of about .32 caliber. A .357 pistol fires 6 shots which are only a little larger than .32 caliber. So, basically, a single shot from a 12ga is like emptying a your pistol at the target -- and the Mossberg Model 500 is going to have seven cartriges in the magazine.
Plus, you really don't have to aim it.
Proverbs 21:19
CAN-SPAM says (IIRC) that it's up to the spammer to decide what sort of hoops you need to jump through to get "unsubscribed".
For example, a spammer could offer you the opportunity to unsubscribe using a hypertext CGI command like http://example.net/cgi/unsubscribe_me_then_resubsu bscribe_me_again_in_10_minutes.cgi
Rule #1 is in full force here.
The thing about things we don't know is we often don't know we don't know them.
>This would be even bigger deterrent. you could not sue someone properly, because no one could afford your lawyer, if they could afford your lawyer, they can afford bigger lawyers on there side, who would have provisions to get paid by the winner because the loser would likely to be poor.
But if you know you will win, this argument is simply not true!
The current system of "I have more money than you hence I win even if I'm wrong" is FAR from being "justice" (or even "the law").
"see you at the pahty, richter"
Wave upon wave of demented avengers March cheerfully out of obscurity into the dream
I love this part:
Yup, you heard the man. Just visiting a website is enough to consent to receive spam. What these "various websites" are, or how a website determines a visitor's email address is left as an exercise for the reader.
By reading this post, you give your implied consent for me to hit you in the face with a cream pie.
Because a loser pays system would prevent a small company from ever filing suit against a big evil company. The costs of losing would be exponentially larger if they had to cover the evil corp's lawyers too....and being in the right hand having a solid case never guarantees victory.
This is precisely why I support an amendment to our legal system in which if Big Ass Company A loses their lawsuit, they must cover Marginally Financially Viable Small Business B's legal fees.
What I don't get is that, at the rate at which America is producing lawyers, with the massive supply ever-growing, why aren't rates dropping?
A very interesting post. I would be interested in reading other slashdotter's information and views on Ironport.
If Ironport is involved in supporting spammers, then other spammers have some reason to sue perhaps. After all, if they are using false pretenses (SpamCop is an anti-spam site) to hurt their competition this might be reason for a legal action. And the case would not necessarily be decided on issues involving spam but rather fraud and illegal competition. (Standard disclaimer: I'm Not A Lawyer and I don't play one on television).
I have to wonder how Ironport can justify "bulk email" support. There was a Wall Street Journal article about a clown who actually opted in for spam. But the number of people who do this is way too small to support any business model that I can think of. So Ironport claiming to support opt-in lists seems like a shallow way to justify supporting spammers.
Nor does it seem reasonable that they would support valid commercial email lists. Groups that someone already have a relationship with (for example, the IEEE) send email from their own addresses. They don't need Ironport. This also allows a group to handle their own email list removal.
Vexatious litigants keep courts in business and contribute mightily to the revenue streams of lawyers. It is very hard indeed to have a litigant declared vexatious while he still has money (note this isn't a legal inclusive pronoun: it's usually a he).
This isn't sarcasm, there are lawyers in my family.
Panurge has posted for the last time. Thanks for the positive moderations.
Do you actually trust the buttons at all?
I've had the unfortunate experience where I've done business with a company online (in this case, EBGames.com), unchecked all their "spam me" options, and specified all email be sent to me in plain text (for informing me about my order's status - not for marketing junk.)
A few months later, what do I find? A large HTML-laden email from said company that started out "We haven't heard from you in a few months, and wanted to let you know about our new offers!"
I checked my account on their website. All the "spam me" buttons were unchecked, and the plain-text option was still set.
I couldn't even opt-out of the message as it had no opt-out instructions!
So, instead, I printed out their message, printed out my account setting page, and wrote a short, terse, letter explaining why I would never, ever, shop with them again. They never replied, but never spammed me again.
That was about 3 years, and at least $1000 in purchases ago. Good riddance.
- SpamCop says that they are a bad reputation company, then they should be suing themselves as the company that gived them that bad reputation on first place with its actions
- SpamCop says that they are good guys, we should accept mail from them, that they are nice people. That certainly will damage their reputation of the lowest scum on earth, and WE should sue spamcop for saying that
In any of those cases, their lawsuit have no meaning, or they are suing the wrong company or should not be they the ones that do the lawsuit.Last but not least, i must admire their balls on using the legal system that could probably be searching a way to fuck them badly, is a nice thing to cut off and expose in a museum.
What's scary about Bonded Sender is that IronPort is putting a big hole in the anti-spam infrastructure. They have total control over this hole. They have no contractual relationship or legal obligation to mail recipients that says they can't use it any way they want to. They just say "trust us". They can change the rules and open the spam floodgates once they have enough people relying on Bonded Sender.
We've heard that before.
They have a TrustE logo, but that's meaningless. All that means is that you agree to conform to your own privacy policy. Which you can change at any time.
They might, for example, change the rules to "conform to the four pillars of responsible E-mail" promoted by the Direct Marketing Association. Those don't require double opt-in or a previous business relationship, so bulkers can trade mailing lists around. All they have to do is honor narrow opt-outs. (Opt out once for Viagra, once for mortgage refinancing, once for inkjet refills...)
Blue Rocket Online Media
Rus Penkatar
Alekseeva Str 29
Kharkov, Petra 61009
+3.80577036200
For a "legitimate" outfit, he sure operates some dodgy sounding domains:
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Allchickswithdicks.com
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Bumfightsonline.com
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Cuterteen.com
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Dailypornbox.com
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Darknspicy.com
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Eatmypussyright.com
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Ebumfights.com
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Ejackolate.com
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Funamateur.com
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Funcheerleaders.com
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Funwithpee.com
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Hotterass.com
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Hugermelons.com
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Itoonsex.com
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Lesbianssizzle.com
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Moreropes.com
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Oralwonders.com
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Orgyfilms.com
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Outsidevoyeur.com
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Peeperdorm.com
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Pillsofpleasure.com
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Realbigerotica.com
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Realbigfetish.com
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Realbigsex.com
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Seducewomennow.com
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Sexierstories.com
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Sexyanalteens.com
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Sexylegssexyfeet.com
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Sexyyoungstuds.com
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Smallnsexy.com
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Youngerasian.com
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Youngervirgins.com
If you're interested in seeing Richter squirm, check out this thread at Abestweb where Richter and one of his sidekicks desperately try to convince affiliate marketers that OptInMyArse.com is a legit business operation. An amusing read.Never email donotemail@WeAreSpammers.com
Out of curiousity, exactly what would you be suing them for? The CAN-SPAM Act doesn't have anything to say about filtering systems. The prior arguments in favor of filtering solutions (In short: the filtering solution isn't forcing you to use it) still stand up just fine.
Search 2010 Gen Con events
IANAL, but I always thought that law centers on proof.
Take a case where the OptInRealBig people are suing someone else for defamation of character. The burden of proof would then be on OptInRealBig to prove that EVERYONE on their spam list in fact opted-in at one point. That in itself would be really hard to prove, considering (among other things) the sheer number of people they'd have to provide proof for. But, consider this: what if someone ELSE opted in using that person's email address? Doesn't OptInRealBig have to prove that the PERSON opted in, and not just the email address?
One of my previous employers had a disgruntled employee that signed him up for a bunch of porno magazine subscriptions in hopes that he'd have to pay for them. Since the publishers of these mags couldn't prove that it was in fact my employer that signed himself up, they had no claim to make when they wanted to charge him hundreds of dollars for the subscriptions, hence they couldn't sue him for a red CENT.
I was in the park the other day wondering why frisbees get bigger and bigger the closer they get - and then it hit me.
Where in CAN-SPAM do you see it giving "high volume e-mail deployers" the RIGHT to put e-mail in my Inbox? I have the right to filter my incoming e-mail, and I still have the right to pay Spamcop to assist me in making those decisions. My server, my property, my rules. How is this not clear to you?
Wish I had access to Slashdot access logs so I could see if all the "spammers have rights too d00ds!" idiots are coming from the same IP in CO or FL...
All of my spam comes from them too, and the only place I've posted my address is in my PGP key which was uploaded to MIT's keyserver. I have 2 addresses associated with my key, and both started receiving spam at the same time, and neither one got any spam before. It started about 2 days after I uploaded it.
Fucking bastards are pulling addresses from the keyservers. Personally, I'd be scared to be a spammer. If you're sending to millions of people a day, you're bound to find one that has a screw loose and might decide to take revenge upon you. Spammers are the most hated people on the net, and that can't be good for ones personal safety.
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"No provider or user of an interactive computer service shall be held liable on account of any action voluntarily taken in good faith to restrict access to or availability of material that the provider or user considers to be obscene, lewd, lascivious, filthy, excessivly violent, harassing, or otherwise objectionable, whether or not such material is constitutionally protected; or any action taken to enable or make available to information content providers or others the technical means to restrict access to material described."
Broken down for:
ISPs that filter:
"no provider .. shall be held liable of any action .. to restrict access to material that the provider .. considers .. otherwise objectionable"
DNS blacklists:
"any action taken to .. make available .. the technical means to restrict access to material described"
If you can't succeed by anoying the hell out of people with unsolicited bulk e-mail, then SUE EVERYONE!!! Scott, welcome to the ranks of Darl McBride. You two should be very cozy together once you get saddled up in the same prison.
;P
Losers like Scott and Darl act like it's their "god given" right to profit with as little effort expended as possible. Well you know what? FUCK THEM!
Un-news
Scott Richter and other high profile spammers are conducting a sustained full-scale DDoS attack against the NSA's ability to monitor E-Mail traffic.
One of NSA's main sources of informations in the war against terror is traffic analysis. Terrorists are using strong cryptography nowadays, so it is difficult (even for the NSA) to decrypt. However, traffic analysis exposes pattern of communications that can be extremely useful in tracking down terrorist networks. If A sends a message to B, it would normally mean, that both parties have a common relationship which should be investigated.
With the constant flow of spam, traffic analysis is effectively thwarted. One can hide in the unending stream of spams, simulating an infected Windows PC drone. It is always possible to deny having sent a message: "Hey, how could I know that my PC was infected by that damn worm again?"
Spam is an excellent vehicle for steganography too. With all this random nonsense designed to circumvent spam filters, hiding an encrypted message there is a piece of cake.
Lobbying Ashcroft or Congress to outlaw spam is difficult. The DMA proved to be much stronger this time.
Write to your representative, and point out that CAN SPAM provides terrorists with an effective method to escape detection and surveilliance. Point out that CAN SPAM, as it is written today, harms the National Security in unintended ways.
With all this terror hysteria in Washington DC, you could even make an impression!
cpghost at Cordula's Web.