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Apple Uncommunicative About Security Holes

blackmonday writes "Kieren McCarthy of Techworld argues that Mac OS X is rife with security holes, and that Apple is doing a 'half-hearted' job of patching their operating system security holes, and has a 'strange habit of pretending a big problem is of no significance.' As a Mac user I find this an intriguing article in light of the Sasser Worm and its recent variants." Despite the article's assertions, no evidence of widespread security problems, or lack of effort to solve them, is offered. The only real question is Apple's lack of communication with the public in the nature of the problems.

19 of 573 comments (clear)

  1. Reasons why... by BWJones · · Score: 4, Informative

    Well, let's see: If Apple has been uncommunicative about the presence (or absence) of any security holes, it is simply because they would rather not publicize the presence of particular holes. It's good policy for their OS while also maintaining an open source presence with Darwin that allows for public scrutiny. It should also be noted that Apple is also working towards approval of certain security ratings from assorted groups and governmental agencies, but they are not publicizing that either. They would rather maintain a low profile and have good reasons for doing so. After all, the core of OS X, the NeXT OS has a long history of a presence in intelligence and security circles (NSA, CIA, FBI etc...).

    I read the linked article and was absolutely stunned at how superficial the evidence was given the claims being made. If one is going to make such statements, one would think there would be a little more substance, but hey the article certainly has garnered some attention, so perhaps that was the sole goal of the author? Or if one were likely to believe in conspiracies, one might guess that the author was put up to writing the article by a potential competitor? In science, we have to publish "disclosures" that establish corporate or political linkages. Perhaps it is time for the news media to do the same?

    --
    Visit Jonesblog and say hello.
    1. Re:Reasons why... by talaper · · Score: 5, Informative

      Funny, Microsoft gets attacked at slashdot for taking too long to patch an issue, and Apple gets a free pass for ignoring them?

      you're statement is a bit misleading - Apple doesn't ignore security holes, they fix them quickly and quietly before anybody realizes where they are. that's a BIG difference.

    2. Re:Reasons why... by neuroticia · · Score: 5, Informative

      Wrong analogy. Your analogy applies more to the single user advertising "I have an unpatched system!"

      It's more along the lines of a Gym realizing that their locksmith put identical locks on every single locker in the locker room. They can say "Oh. Crap. There's a problem, let's tell our users so that they can decide to use an unsecure locker or not." Or they can say "Maybe no one will notice, the locksmith will be here in a couple of hours anyway."

      Still not the perfect analogy, but when you have a large group of people that are operating under the assumption that something is secure, and you don't tell them so that they can take steps to modify their behavior until the security is increased... It's like knowing there's a potential terrorist attack pending, but not telling anyone about it so that they can avoid public areas.

      If there's a vulnurability with something, I prefer to know so that I can avoid a particular action until there is a patch. If I don't know, I go on blissfully unaware and may not even download the patch right away as it becomes available. (Especially since Apple has unusually large patches sometimes.)

      -Sara

    3. Re:Reasons why... by 47Ronin · · Score: 5, Informative

      Perspective: people are surprised by all the security updates that Apple releases.

      Fact: By default, NONE of the exploitable holes are available by DEFAULT out of the box. There are ZERO services running, so no remote vulnerabilities. ...which is a ton more secure than a Windows PC out of the box (and some linux boxes). The only time the Mac OS X system can be compromised is if the exploitable services are turned on. Most of these are exploits to open-source software such as Apache, OpenSSL, CUPS. Recently, AFS was patched and that isn't even running when you turn on a Mac.

      --
      Those who laugh at you for you having a Mac.. are the people who constantly call you to fix their PC.
    4. Re:Reasons why... by More+Trouble · · Score: 4, Informative

      The discussion is whether or not Apple should be communicating more completely the nature of the security problems it is fixing.

      The vulnerabilities are announced on various security lists. If you're paying even any attention, you can't help but notice.

      :w

    5. Re:Reasons why... by LostCluster · · Score: 4, Informative

      When colleges were opening up this year, there were massive worm problems because unpatched Windows XP computers were coming straight out of the box, and they were discovering access to the Internet during their first bootups. Computers were being exploited within a matter of seconds because there were just so many infected computers. And once a new computer gets hit, it was just one more sending random attacks.

      All of the RPC-flaw worms would have had much smaller impacts if only the people who actually used Remote Proceedure Calls were running it. Simply put, that'd mean next to nobody would be running that service, and therefore there'd be much fewer people at risk, and therefore much fewer people infected, and therefore much longer of a wait time before any given IP address is randomly hit with an attempt.

      Microsoft's learned the moral of this tale. All recently released versions of Windows start with all non-critical services turned off until the user does something to enable them. SP2 will apply this logic retroactively to Windows XP Home, and that'll take care of most home users and college kids. This will greatly lower the odds of Windows ever being hit with worms of this size again...

    6. Re:Reasons why... by MO! · · Score: 4, Informative
      I don't think people on dial up ever patch.. because downloading the 100 megs of updates that both Jaguar, Panther, and XP require has got to be hell.

      Well you're thinking is impaired and you should therefore refrain from making such grossly inaccurate assumptions.

      Personally, I have 2 Windows 2000 systems, 1 Windows XP laptop, 1 MacOS X Powerbook, and 1 FreeBSD firewall. Not only do I weekly sync the FreeBSD box up via cvs and recompile the Stable source tree, I also patch both Win2k and the Mac as needed via the same 56K dial up. I haven't been hit with any of the Windows worms/viruses, nor any FreeBSD or Mac problems. That's because I run Windows Update nearly every other day, and MacOS X's Software Update at least a few times a week (in case a new patch I've not already heard about is there).

      Yeah, it sucks on dialup - and I frequently let the updates download overnight while I sleep. That's what my cell phone is for - voice conversations. If you're thinking twice about 50MB and you're not limited to dial up, I think you're nuts. I keep all of my systems as up to date as possible. Luckily the XP laptop is for work only, so I can run Windows Update from work with it.

      --
      I AM, therefore I THINK!
    7. Re:Reasons why... by LostCluster · · Score: 4, Informative

      The affected service is indeed something that cannot/should not be directly turned off because it's the Local Security Authority Subsystem Service which is more-or-less at the center of the whole permissions structure in Windows.

      However, that isn't by definition a network service itself. The only way that this flaw can be exposed to the network is if there is a running network service that depends on the LSASS to do user authentication for it... LSASS isn't network-aware in itself, it's just concerned with permissions of things on the local machine. In order for the worm to work, it must depend on the help of a network service in order to be able to get to the affected service to exploit the bug.

      To put it mildly, if the Sasser worm can't get get in at port 445, which is an SMB file-sharing port, then it gives up and moves on to the next potential victim. Nobody should have port 445 exposed to the open Internet unless they want to share files with the world that way, which is most likely nobody at all. In fact, users who don't have a multi-PC home network have no business having that port open in the first place, they're not going to have use for SMB.

      So, if File Sharing is turned off, the LSASS flaw would still exist but Sasser wouldn't be able to exploit it remotely, the LSASS flaw would be contained to only local users on that machine. In fact, anybody behind a firewall that denies port 445 would be protected from being exploited by anything on the other side of the firewall.

      In short, if SMB shipped off by default, only those who turned on File Sharing and then failed to properly firewall it from the Internet would be infected. Those who were unaware of what File Sharing did would not be...

  2. Apple knows its audience by Reverberant · · Score: 5, Informative

    A comment in response to the Scobleizer blog said it best:

    Eh, I think @stake is just whining. The security update on the apple site is written for consumers, not security experts. The knowledgebase article: http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=617 98 clearly lists the CAN number. Plugging in that CAN number into google gets me straight to the @stake advisory here: http://www.atstake.com/research/advisories/2004/a0 50304-1.txt

    Personally, I don't think apple is trying to hide anything, they are just assuming that calling it a "a pre-authentication, remotely exploitable stack buffer overflow" would confuse consumers. The knowledgebase article contains all the info a technical person would need to find out more.

    Speaking of "full disclosure" - the criticism came from @stake, which is a vendor to Microsoft and fired one of their employees for criticizing Microsoft in a report. :)

  3. Re:Wow, this is pointless by Elwood+P+Dowd · · Score: 5, Informative

    DO they ship apache with every copy of mac os x?

    Yes. The configuration is difficult to deal with, but it certainly ships on every OS X machine.

    The long story is that you have to go to the "System Preferences" application, click on the "Sharing" panel, and check the box marked "Personal Web Sharing".

    I realize that had a lot of "tech" "jargon", but that's how you configure Apache on Mac OS X.

    --

    There are no trails. There are no trees out here.
  4. Re:So why was this posted then? by blackmonday · · Score: 4, Informative

    There lots of people out there who don't know what you know. Techworld, sounds so ... official, it must be true! I was trying to expose a BS article without explicitly calling it that. I'm glad we're debunking it.

  5. Attack story by Penguinshit · · Score: 4, Informative


    Man, I haven't read such an obviously antagonistic bit of tripe like that in a long time. Mentioning 5 possible exploits which all require default-off services to be enabled, only one of which could lead to a system-wide compromise under 99% of normal circumstances, then calling "Sasser" trivial in comparison (sorry.. "a blip") is not only completely incorrect but is irresponsible journalism.

    The AFS vulnerability, which is the only process in the whole list which runs under root privs, would require someone be running AFS (the Apple equiv of NFS) over the Internet. It has been known for a very long time that NFS is *ONLY* for internal trusted networks. AFS is turned off by default on Macs, and the vast majority of users (certainly almost all home users) would never need to enable it.

    The Quicktime vuln would only affect files owned by the executing user. Certainly a pain in the ass, but not fatal or prone to "zombification" of your computer like Sasser.

    The Apache vulns, IIRC, are of the DOS type (one is a memory leak condition). Irritating, but not critical, unlike Sasser.

    Kieren McCarthy should be ashamed of himself for writing such a disingenuous load of crap as that article. Microsoft's history of disclosure and cooperation with security research firms is ** FAR ** from unblemished.

  6. Nice propaganda by mabu · · Score: 4, Informative

    With all due respect, this is much ado about nothing. Let's examine some of the claims:

    * Some older vulnerabilities in Apache 2 can be exploited by malicious people to inject malicious characters into log files and cause a DoS

    Who is running Apache 2? Are most OS X users running their own web server in the first place? This isn't an Apple issue. Anyone who is running Apache, which includes all flavors of Unix as well as Windows has the same issues, but of those, the 2.x tree?? A tiny minority probably not even worth mentioning. This isn't necessarily Apple's responsibility unless they've branded Apache 2 and offered it as some core feature.

    * Two vulnerabilities in the IPSec implementation can be exploited by malicious people to conduct MitM attacks (Man-in-the-Middle), establish unauthorised connections, or cause a DoS.

    Again, this is an OpenSSL issue, not an Apple issue, and it has nothing specifically to do with Apple. The circumstances under which this exploit would be taken advantage of are pretty limited. That's not to say any of these issues shouldn't be addressed, and maybe Apple should more accurately call attention to these vulnerabilities but they aren't really the issues justified by the FUD being spewed.

    * A vulnerability within AppleFileServer can be exploited by malicious people to compromise a vulnerable system.

    Ok, this may be ONE issue so far that is attributable to Apple.

    * An unspecified vulnerability exists within the CoreFoundation when handling environment variables. This may potentially be a privilege escalation vulnerability. This has not been confirmed, though.

    WTF? An "unspecified vulnerability" that "has not been confirmed"? Did the lawyers from SCO write this article?

    * An unspecified vulnerability exists within RAdmin when handling large requests. This may potentially be a system compromise issue. This has not been confirmed, though.

    More unconfirmed vulnerabilities? Nice FUD.

  7. Re:Where's the evidence??? by SLot · · Score: 5, Informative

    Can you name a single Windows flaw that was in the kernel?

    http://www.net-security.org/vuln.php?id=3401
    http://www.cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvename.cgi?name= CAN-2003-0112

    I don't think Microsoft has ever released a patch to the Windows kernel via Windows Update. Can anyone confirm this?

    http://www.microsoft.com/technet/security/bulletin /MS03-013.mspx

    Google is your friend.

  8. Is Apple Uncommunicative? by allgood2 · · Score: 4, Informative

    I read this article and thought it utter FUD. First the guy asserts that Mac OS X is rifed with security holes, when really compared to Windows there just aren't that many. But it seemed his real complaint is that not a lot of people are talking about the security holes. I mean, in all honesty, why would Apple talk about the security holes, unless they were so plagued by them that consumers were continously calling up complaining, there really is no reason to talk about a security hole.

    Investigate it, acknowledge it, and patch it-- that's what I see as the typical course of action, even for Microsoft, and Apple does this reasonablly well. In fact, most of my knowledge about the various Apple related security holes comes directly from Apple in their knowledge-base articles related to the various security patches. It's only randomly that I hear about a security hole that will also effect Apple from a third party source, before I hear it from Apple. But I'll admit to most of my security subscriptions tend to cater to the PC, for obvious reasons.

    Also, it seems to me that Apple spends a fair amount of time patching security holes in the various open source solutions its using/tying in with Mac OS X. Which means that technically many of these security holes are also effecting Linux, and Unix machines as well. Like the security update from yesterday or the day before address issues in Apache, IPSec, OpenSSL, and CUPS.

    The guy mentions the QuickTime flaw, which was patched weeks ago by Apple, per normal, in a quite automated QuickTime update. He then also mentions that "trojan" that never was. Basically a proof of concept idea that was published, but works technically not that much differently on a Windows machine. Basically, someone can change the icon of an application to that of an MP3 file, and run code when double-clicked. Did anyone besides Intego consider this a big deal, even Symantec scoffed at it, and scolded Intego, though they did duly post a low level security warning.

    The truth is, to my knowledge Apple doesn't rate security updates. An update is either a normal bug fix or feature addition, or its a security update. Apple expects all its users to Apple each of their security patches, and to the best of my knowledge has never used a security patch to ship in unwanted software or system changes. So why complain that Apple hasn't called the security updates a "critical" security update. The knowledge base typically includes who original posted the hole/flaw, and the item number, so you can go read the details yourself, and look at the rating attribute.

    Blah, blah, blah...isn't this just more of I'm looking, scraping, scrouning for something bad to say about Apple security. I guess, I'd be more forgiving, if the article actual focused in on the various security issues, as opposed to chastising Apple for what, not taking out a press release about them?

  9. Re:Apple isn't particularly good at the patching g by laird · · Score: 4, Informative

    "While Apple seems to be patching fairly regularly, the last security update (the group of 4) was a little lacking in that it offered no explanations ... As I work in IT, I'm often left installing patches with Apple with no clue what they're doing under the hood"

    Apple's description of the patch was rather terse (AppleFileServer: Fixes CAN-2004-0430 to improve the handling of long passwords. Credit to Dave G. from @stake for reporting this issue."), but it provides the reference (CAN-2004-0430) that provides full details. Admittedly, this did require a google search, or reading the usual advisory lists. But it's certainly not hidden from anyone who wants the detail.

  10. update mechanisms by Onan · · Score: 4, Informative

    You're right, it's very often the case that worms and such are exploiting vulnerabilities for which Microsoft issues patches long before. However, there are a few reasons that's the case.

    1) My very-non-expert understanding of Microsoft's update mechanism is that there are several semi-overlapping systems which are relevant, and that some or all of them do not default to running automatically. (I've never used Windows myself, so it's entirely possible that I'm mistaken about this. It's the impression I've acquired after listening to many Windows users.)

    Contrast this to Apple's Software Update tool, which defaults to checking for updates once a week, and handles all hardware and firmware from Apple. It requires explicit permission from the user to perform upgrades, but it does take the liberty of downloading "important" updates before requesting a final go-ahead, making it as painless as possible.

    2) Microsoft's patches have a pretty high incidence of causing problems for previously-working systems. My understanding is that this is often related to a very inflexible shared library system which encourages third-party developers to overwrite standard system DLLs with their own versions left and right, predictably causing problems upon future update.

    While it is absolutely the case that updates from Apple occasionally cause problems, it seems to be relatively rare. I personally have no qualms about simply agreeing immediately to any update Apple offers me; I've been doing so for five years now, and I haven't had any cause to regret it yet.

    So, yes, a very high percentage of systems out there are lacking patches which Microsoft has made available. But there are still some senses in which Microsoft is very responsible for that being the case.

    1. Re:update mechanisms by sjlutz · · Score: 5, Informative
      I've seen Windows and Microsoft bashed enough on Slashdot, and sometimes for good reasons, but I have to say that the parent post is completely wrong.

      1) The Windows Update is installed by default, and (annoyingly) pops up when using a new computer until you tell it what to do. The options are simple: 1) Enable Windows Update (on by default). a) Notify before downloading, b) Download automatically, but don't install. c) Auto-download, and auto-install at scheduled time. Default is Updates ON, but just to notify.

      2) Yes, in the past there have been a couple windows updates that were not up to par, but they have become much better. The last problem one I remember was about 2 years ago with an Exchange Update (not security related) messing up an existing exchange server. I have yet to have a security update mess anything up, and I run about 100 windows servers. Like any update, I do test on a non-production box (like staging server or development server) before I push to production, but I have yet to have a problem.

    2. Re:update mechanisms by TechniMyoko · · Score: 5, Informative
      Windows Update is semi automatic. It downloads the patches rated critical, and asks permission to install them.

      As for some patches causing trouble, I seem to remember an update for OSX that neutered the network adapter.

      As for DLL hell, that was cured in XP/2K which keeps multiple versions of DLLs