EU Moves Toward Software Patents

edooper writes "Apparently the patent discussion in Europe has taken a turn for the worse. According to the Foundation for a Free Information Infrastructure: 'This Wednesday, the Irish Presidency managed to secure a qualified majority for a counter-proposal to the software patents directive, with only a few countries - including Belgium and Germany - showing resistance. This proposal discards all limiting amendments from the European Parliament and reinstates the laxist provisions from the Commission, adding direct patentability of data structures and process descriptions as icing on the cake. In a remarkable sign of unity in times of imminent elections, members of the European Parliament from all political groups are condemning this blatant disrespect for democracy in Europe.' Read more: swpat.ffii.org."

Comments

Why?

[timealterer]

I may be just dim-witted, but it seems like governments are having too difficult a time understanding just how counter-productive this could/would be. I mean, sure, it sounds like it would improve your economy at first glance to discourage free software, but if Europe is running on free software and America's pockets are being drained by commercial software, whose economy benefits in the long run?

Re:Why?

[LeftOfCentre]

Newsflash #1: every European citizen can vote for representatives in the European Parliament every five years -- next month will be an opportunity to do so.

Newsflash #2: It is the Council of Ministers that is pushing this decision through. Guess what that is? The EU member governments elected by the people on national level.

Look, I don't mean to come down too hard and I agree we have a problem here, but I just wish people who posted had some knowledge of the area instead of just guessing wildly.

Maybe it can be argued that the EU is not democratic. But that is more of a reflection on "representative democracy" as a concept, than the EU in particular.

Re:How would this work?

[Dogbert2006]

If the data structure/algorithm is sufficiently complex, and no-one would have thought of it in the first place, then it may be worthy of a patent [of decent amount of time, non-renewable]. (as mentionned in prev. slashdot posts on similar topics). However, if the patents are for simple structures, or things like 'int i' [an exageration, but you get the point], then we're doomed...

...it's OK....we can still blame MS

[j3ll0]

According to the background information:

"The Irish Presidency explains on its website that it is sponsored by Microsoft. Ireland is "the largest software-exporting country in Europe", thanks to a fiscal policy which makes it a tax haven for large US companies: it has a tax rate on patent revenues of 0%."

So it would appear that US corporations are subverting international processes for their own benefit. This is exactly the same as the Australia-US situation, where compliance with draconian US IP laws HAVE BEEN MADE A CONDITION of the US entering into a Free Trade Agreement.

I'm struggling to cope with this though: the Irish stuff up IP laws in EU - but they make Guinness...Don't make me choose!!!!!....

Look who sponsors the irish precidency

[Anonymous Coward]

Very recently two new sponsors for the irish precidency appeared, as can be see on their sponsors web page. These are Microsoft and Dell. Is this just a coincidence?

not happy? Then SIGN THE PETITION!

[acidvoid]

Read how you can help here...

http://swpat.ffii.org/group/todo/index.en.html

Sign a petition here...

http://petition.eurolinux.org/index_html?LANG=en

When I signed the number of signatures was 322888, A MILLION ARE NEEDED!!!!

Best Regards,

#322889

Cut the xenophobic crap...

[WIAKywbfatw]

Yeah, well before you start you xenophobic EU-bashing, remember that if it wasn't for the USPTO's stance of letting people patent everything and the kitchen sink then the EU legislators wouldn't have taken such a step.

In the real world, where companies and countries have to compete against one another in business, not recognising software patents in the EU whilst they are being handed out like hot cakes in the US is the quickest way to destroy software development within the EU. I don't like it - in fact, I hate it - but those are the reasons behind it.

So, before you start EU-bashing, on software patents and rights in general (perhaps you should check out the EU Human Rights Act as well) perhaps you should learn to appreciate that it's only following the rather poor precedent set by the US.

Re:Cut the xenophobic crap...

[roard]

In the real world, where companies and countries have to compete against one another in business, not recognising software patents in the EU whilst they are being handed out like hot cakes in the US is the quickest way to destroy software development within the EU. I don't like it - in fact, I hate it - but those are the reasons behind it.

Excuse me, sir, but... what are you smoking ?

The Patent System is grossly abused in general, and particularly in the software area. It's widely acknowledged (check the economical studies available on the ffii site for example) that Software Patents doesn't increase inovation (and it's not particularly a difficult thing to understand). I won't be long here, suffice to say that programming is inherently an incremental work, based on top of others ideas, and moreover, it's one of the most complex creation that could be done (hell, it's so complex that we can't manage to produce 100% sure non-bugged software for any complex procedure). Pushing Software Patents is so deeply wrong that it would be funny if not real. How could you think a second that the patent system, with submarine patents, looooong submission delay, innovation-challenged patents, and incredibly inaccurate verification, could work in a field that would use dozens of theses "patents" without even realizing it, all that in a period not even sufficient to apply a patent ?

Why do the EU want theses ? it's totally insane. Not having patents is actually the BEST thing that could happens to the EU (and to all others countries). Plus, Software Patents aren't bringing added value at all, only $$$ for lawyers. Not one engineer read software patents (and for good reason -- not only because of the judicial risk).

The only reason I could imagine, sadly, is that some EU bureaucrats get big dollars by US companies. The fact that theses bureaucrats just choose to overrulle the European Commission is so incredible that my hope is it will create an enormous indignation (because, face it, the average EU citizen doesn't care about patents, but perhaps the beahvior shown by the bureaucrat (total irrespect to the elected representants) will trigger something).

Re:Cut the xenophobic crap...

[AigariusDebian]

He is wrong. It acctually is much more interesting.
Both USPTO and the new directive violate the TRIPS and the Berne convention which both USA and EU signed.
TRIPS article 12. says that software is to be considered a literary work.
Berne convention clearly states that literary works are not patentable.

The problem is that the European Council and the Irish Presidency claim that their proposition doesn't allow software patents, but that is such a pile of bullshit.

Re:How would this work?

[pluvia]

"sufficiently complex" and "decent amount of time" are so subjective as to be almost meaningless.

Are we going to have leaders in each field analyze patent applications so that they can best judge whether an idea is so unique that it deserves a monopoly? Probably not, so who's going to judge?

Are we going to make the "decent amount of time" relative to the uniqueness of the idea? Probably not, so how long should it be?

Are we going to impose our patents on the rest of the world?

The logistics of this subjective patenting process calls into question its very purpose. I like the idea behind patents (no secrets), but unless they are held to enormously high standards, they will deteriorate into what they often are in the US: an ugly hindrance to progress.
--
Copyrights and Patents are optimization problems: maximize progress.

The battle is not yet won and not yet lost

[AigariusDebian]

It is long not over, people.

On 17-18th of May, there will be a real vote by the Council of Ministers. If they vote against software patents - we win.
If Council of Ministers votes for software patents then the bill will return to european Parlament for a re-discussion, which will be postproned to September due to elections.
There we will have the chance to discuss this again, this time with a new European Parlament.

Note: the previose EPclearly stated AGAINST software patents.

Re:How would this work?

[AigariusDebian]

Don't be Braindead and assume that this is bad.
Don't be braindead and assume it's good.

I am form a new European Country, from Latvia. I have studiet the effect the software patents will make on our IT industry and let me tel you - it ain't pretty.
All European small and medium IT related companies would instantly go to the state of limbo: any large company from Europe or USA or Japan could just sue them with one of 30 000 overbroad software patents (progress bar, tabbet paletes, hyperlinks, selling on web, selling on web with credit card, GIF, JPEG, any-other-trivial-idea-expressed-in-layerspeak-in- 150-a4-pages) and the small company would go bancrupt due to layer fees even before the court proves their innocence. And if the small, but smart company would try to enforce a software patent on a large company, the large would countersue and take the patent in bancupcy procedure for peanuts.

As you see, software patents in Europe are only good for large non-European enterprises.
Why should we allow them in Europe then?

BAN THE SOFTWARE PATENTS IN YOU COUNTRY TOO!

Re:why do developers have to get screwed on this t

[AigariusDebian]

Software is math. Math is not patentable.
OR
Software is literature. Literature is not patentable.

To protect your ideas, a simple copyright is enough. You do not need patents in software field.