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Stopping Overseas Fax Spam?
iotashan asks: "Likely for most businesses, unsolicited faxes have become quite a problem. They needlessly use up toner and paper, and are usually just scams anyway. Specifically, we are receiving faxes from a company called Flamingo Travel. Now, they appear to bug business across the US, and some innocent parties are falling victim. I have used their automated system for having my fax number removed, to no avail. Is my only weapon having a bunch of friends call this 800 number to make the company's overseas toll-free phone bill unbearable?"
"The latest fax listed a number to call to take advantage of the offer (800-328-9795), so I called it and asked to be removed. The woman took down my number, but rather smugly told me that they are in England so they do not have to obey the US unsolicited fax laws. She wouldn't provide me with any other company information, and then stopped answering calls from my number after repeated hang-ups. The FCC says that it is a civil matter, and to go through the courts. The Fax Preference Service in the UK says they cannot help people outside the UK. Do I have nowhere to turn except an expensive lawyer, armed with no information about the company?"
Seems to me that you could just rig up a computer to accept faxes, using ANI or caller id to refuse to accept anything you didn't get valid info for.
Set the jobs to auto-print and you are set. Use the old fax machine for outbounds only, rig it to not answer.
Woops, sorry, this solution requires more effort than plugging the machine into the wall. How could I have even brought it up.
HBI's Law: Frequency of calling others Nazis is directly correlated with the likelihood of the accuser being Communist.
-H
does anyone know what these people want to sell me so that I can lead them on a bit more?
Bottles.
The woman took down my number, but rather smugly told me that they are in England so they do not have to obey the US unsolicited fax laws. She wouldn't provide me with any other company information, and then stopped answering calls from my number after repeated hang-ups. The FCC says that it is a civil matter, and to go through the courts. The Fax Preference Service in the UK says they cannot help people outside the UK.
Now, I don't know about some third world countries, but isn't there a treaty that says something like "If a law is illegal in our country, your 'citizen' can't do it in our country.
Ok, one thing I am missing, how much does it cost them? I mean f they are sending the faxes from UK, it will be too costly, but if they are sending it via some sort of internet relay, go after the relay - they are in the US and must obey laws. What am i missing here?
-Em
RelevantElephants: A Somatic WebComic...
I just called and it hung up as soon as it answered.
Congratulations, in 5 minutes they're already Slashdotted beyong annoyance!
Vonal Declosion
Why don't fax machines have whitelisting or blacklisting capabilities? Or do they?
I called. It rang once and went silent. Tried calling again, some guy answered. I asked if they'd gotten tons of calls, and he said nope. But he's "looking forward to it because that's what we do". Not sure what he meant, I suppose I should try calling again.
riding round the world on an old motorcycle
I was a victim. I finally got so pissed off at them coming in at 2-4am to my home phone that doesn't even have a fax machine hooked up that I changed my number... Unfortunately the new number belonged to some guy that is in huge debt with his creditors and they call constently. Also I forgot that I would no longer be on Missouri's no call list so telemarketers were calling quite a bit too. I think no call has kicked in because the calls seem to have dropped. The were almost all automated calls which is interesting because before the MO No Call list most telemarketing was done by live people.
If you guys want to organize a day where we call all the 800 numbers of spammers and junk faxers count me in. I've got a couple of numbers I've been collecting that I can throw into the pool.
The man who trades freedom for security does not deserve nor will he ever receive either. - Benjamin Franklin
If it didn't, people wouldn't do it.
I know somebody who runs a fax list. He's very religeous about getting you off his lists right away if you want off, but he's more liberal than I would prefer about what constitutes "opt in"...
It works.
He's getting business - lots of it. In his own words, he's "on a roll". It's cheaper and more effective to send junk faxes than to post legitimate ads in the trade magazines!
He's not selling penis pills or anything like that - just an independent broker promoting his services, which services he otherwise competently provides.
He'll continue this until the money runs out, like anybody else in his position.
I have no problem with your religion until you decide it's reason to deprive others of the truth.
$5 / month hosted VPS on linux = awesome!
This just confirms to the sender that your actually paying attention to whats coming through and I'm sure just encourages them to send more.
You'd think by now you'd be able to get a (walled garden/ firewall) for fax machines!!
(looks around nervously)
;)
If you have their fax number, especially if it's an 800#...
Take 4 sheets of black construction paper and tape them together end to end so they will feed through your fax machine. Once the first sheet is through, quickly tape it to the last sheet to create a continuous loop.
If they use conventional fax, use up their paper and toner. If they store faxes electronically, a continuous loop should eat up some storage
"Lame" - Galaxar
The trick is in the timing. call on Friday after buisness hours, and let it fax. Once the paper you are faxing starts to come through your machine, loop it back around and tape it together to form a nice continuous loop. I've heard of this fax continuing all weekend until somebody comes in Monday to shut it off.
That'll use up their toner :)
Yeah, that's assuming there is a toner to use up.
Ie it's not the pentium box with a fax-modem and huge harddrive on other end as every normal computer telephony company would have.
3.243F6A8885A308D313
Here's several off the top stack of our overflowing recycle bin, please, add them to your list:
6 6-256-69662 8/866-266-81931 -2460/800-869-22350 -513-7431/877-201-7599
Service/alleged "removal" number
800-413-2767/888-211-4409
800-609-9001/8
800-456-0034/877-405-4260
800-334-35
800-418-5754/877-203-8926
866-68
800-929-6917/800-658-8132
80
Click on the website of the site and you will get the following message (It's probably a good idea to calm down now): We have been recieving phone calls from people angry that we are sending them fax specials like $99 to Disney and Kids Free. Please know that they are NOT coming from Flamingo Travel Group in Pennsylvania. They are coming from a company in Florida calling themselves Flamingo Travel. Their phone number is 1-800-328-9795 and they sell time shares. FILE YOUR COMPLAINT: http://ftp.fcc.gov/cgb/consumerfacts/unwantedfaxes .html
***We do not send faxed specials...ever...period.***
***We do not send email blasts...we only send email to people that ask for it***
***We remove people right away if they change thier mind at any time.***
***We value our privacy and we would never violate yours by sharing privledged contact information. ***
***We have nothing to do with time shares. Personally, I think they are a bad idea***
A reputable Travel Company will provide you with:
1. A Physical Address of thier place of business.
2. Their phone, fax and email information.
3. Their IATA number.
4. They will never ask for your income information...it's none of thier business.
5. Any reputable company should allow you time to check them out, offer information to help you check them out and this information should be verifiable.
Get an air horn, call, and blast it into the receiver.
STOP MISUSING APOSTROPHES, YOU MORONS!!!
In 1993, we used Hylafax. We sent things out THROUGH it (and a row of modems) and we received faxes through it. It never needs to hit paper.
We had a machine to send stuff OUT of on occasion (like a filled out form), but didn't take IN on that line.
In days of yore, we just showed the first page and someone could route it by that. Privacy issues were pretty moot as it was replacing a pile of paper that the administrators (secretaries) piled through).
Junk Fax? Delete.
Need to have it on paper? Fine, print it. About 20% ever needed to become paper.
A Friend ordered some new modem (28.8kb). Needed it the next day. Coached them on how to send it international (he was in canada for 2 weeks on a job site with no access). "Sir, we do this all the time." And yet they screwed it up. Nothing in the promised AM. Noon. PM. The next morning, he's written a long 4 page screed. In large print, 3 thrice a page, he has in 100 pt font, "Call me: My number is..."
Prints it on a trusty dotmatrix as one sheet.
He "dials around" the tech supports local(ish) direct number until he gets a fax squeal.
Feeds the fax. Tapes the ends together.
After 90 minutes, the phone rings. "Are you .....?"
Yes, did you get my fax? ... really? wow, my machine must be screwed up. But not like your shipping dept is. Where's my damn modem you charged me for a swore up and down would be here yesterday?
Faxing them back won't make a difference. It will cost you. Perhaps a smart fax modem program with caller ID set with an access list (ala sendmail: Block THESE countries).
And just how crazy is that? I kept a scan of my signature on my PC when I ran a web design business. If anything needed changing at the bank, I'd write a letter to the bank and plop the TIF sig in and fax. And my employees could do it too if I was away. Could I email them a GPG/PGP signed email? Nope. Can I do that now? Nope? Can I *still* send them a fax with a pasted in scanned signature? Yep.
I'll never understand the mentality of UK banks (Lloyds in this particular case) or anyone who accepts "signed" faxes as a secure document...
.02
cLive ;-)
-- Trinity in high heels carrying a whip: The donimatrix - there is no spoonerism
Uh, ... I can't help myself....
My new business model:
1) Buy a bunch of pay phones and install them in a big room.
2) Hook them up to computers/modems/whatever
3) Call 1-800 numbers found on spam faxes/junk email all day and night.
4) Profit!!!
At $0.35 a call, how long does it take to pay for the pay phone?
No... I'm real, and I'm not on there. The whole purpose of doing this was so they would be flooded with calls about how faxes suck. Please mention that when you call. Don't buy anything!
Behold the glorious bragging rights
Funny, when I worked with my real estate agent it was as you said with changes faxed back and forth until the final document was barely ledgible, but in the corporate world I've seen with a couple of contract negotiations take places via email and MS Word with track changes turned on.
The final versions were of course read very carefully by both sides and then signed versions were faxed back and forth.
Underloved Movies and Pub Quiz: donotquestionme.org
Why doesn't everyone sign up for an account here for the free month. Send a month's worth of faxes to the company... everyone.
After a few hundred thousand faxes, I bet the company would reconsider it's marketing practices.
My father is a lawyer, and he had to get his sister out of a nice sized psychic hotline bill.
It turns out that they have to prove that you agreed to the charges, but then they usually don't inform you that you're being taped. Being that it's a crime to record someone's voice without their permission, they usually drop it.
To all the posts claiming that it is too expensive to send faxes from the UK, think again. For $2.95 a month here in Canada I get 6 cents (Canadian)/minute to the UK whereas for an extra $2.95/month I can only get 7 cents/minute to somewhere else in Canada so it would actually be cheaper to fax Canada from the UK than from within Canada!
When you start receiving repeated offers from a fax marketer, determine who the company really is, play along to get them to send a for-real offer via fax, then fax them a rejection of their offer and fax them a counteroffer to "evaluate future fax advertising materials". for $500.00 per each junk advertising fax you receive in the future.
Note specifically in your counteroffer fax that you are responding to their initial fax offer and their faxed followup for-real offer. Throw in a few terms and conditions like: liquidated damages of $2500 (or the maximum your local small claims court will give), net 30 billing, the name you will bill them under (such as "Advertising Evaluation Services Company"), and MOST IMPORTANT: TELL THEM THAT THEY CAN ACCEPT YOUR COUNTEROFFER BY SENDING ANOTHER FAX ADVERTISEMENT FOR THEIR GOODS AND SERVICES TO YOUR FAX NUMBER, THE SAME ONE THEY HAVE ALREADY BEEN USING. Otherwise (you tell them) they no longer have your permission to use your computer and computer supplies (such as fax paper and toner) by sending advertisements to your fax number.
Now, when you receive their next fax, do exactly what you said you would do in your counteroffer: take a look at it, then prepare a bill for your time and send it to their billing office. They may pay it right away, especially if it looks official, you use some business-like name and provide a nice classy professional description of your services. If they do not pay, after a couple months file suit in small claims court for the maximum small claims amount allowed, typically $2000-5000 or so. (assuming, of course, your faxed counteroffer had a per-occurence liquidated damages clause of whatever that maximum is.
So what happens? They may pay automatically. If not, you file suit in small claims. By the time they realize that they have made an offer (the initial fax and/or the followup fax), received a counter offer (your fax back to them with your rejection and your modified terms) and have accepted the counteroffer (when they kept sending you advertisements), it will be too late. You will have hardcopies of their initial offer, your counteroffer, and copies of the faxes you received in response to your counteroffer. If I were a small claims judge, I would see this as a slam dunk case in your favor, and would be laughing hysterically in chambers afterward when I ordered them to cough up the cash. Of course, it only works if the company is local or regional and therefore amenable to small claims.
You see, the internet and fax machines permit them to go make offers like crazy, throwing trash terms and advertisements at everyone heedlessly. They do not check up on who is sending the offers out, whether illegally to blocked numbers or not. They just don't care. Their management systems are not tight and things (like obeying the law and actually reading your counteroffer) fall between the cracks.
The process I describe above, as long as you respond to their faxes, as long as you tell them very plainly exactly what you are going to do and how you will bill them, etc, and as long as you keep paper copies of all the faxes you receive from them and send to them, cannot be considered as fraud. Believe me, if they catch on only after paying several of your bills, they will feel like utter fools, but there is no judge in the land who would find your actions to be fraudulent or criminal if you were quite upfront. Indeed, most would gleefully realize how you finessed the fax monsters and order them to pay up immediately in small claims.
NOTE: I am not your attorney. If you want an attorney, hire one. If you are interested in this idea, take it to your local attorney and get his opinion.