Slashdot Mirror
Tocqueville Blames U.S. IT Troubles On Free Software
twitter writes "The group that told us closed source was more secure than open source, now tells us that "Open source software, also described as free software, is the neutron bomb of IP" that will destroy 85% of the market value of US companies and drive companies who are currently outsourcing to "draconian measures even worse than outsourcing." So, there you have it, free software is responsible for bad laws, out sourcing and bad hair days." (Remember who funded the same group's report on open source security?)
"The report warns governments against relying on open-source software for national security."
Personally, I would recommend against using closed source software produced by any company that outsource their programming. It seems to me that is a security risk of incredible measure.
I would also like to suggest that Tocqueville create a report on how an illegally maintained monopolies can hurt the computer industry.
So, major U.S. corporations are heavily investing in developing a widely available 'free software inventory' that is open to anyone to use or customize at will. If customers only want to use free software, they will buy more hardware and services because there is no additional cost for software. Moreover, with no software costs, even hardware development, etc. becomes even cheaper.
I always thought that the customer looking for, and receiving, the best value (or "bang for the buck") was one of the inherent features of capitalism. Now that the business model for software firms is being turned on its head Ken Brown is crying foul. I didn't hear Brown whining when domestic garment manufacturers started moving all the sewing jobs overseas to sweatshops which put far more people out of work than the current IT outsourcing.
Of course, being a pieceworker in any industry isn't considered a "glamour job" on Wall Street.
Trolling is a art,
Nonsense Squared! This is really unreal. I'm not a linux zealot but open source is at the *VERY least* as secure as closed source and has the potential to totally surpass it through the ability to get such a large amount of peer review.
I don't see how companies saving money is going to lead to the end of the American way anyhow.
I just love it when people say open source is anti-capitalist and unamerican. I think quite the opposite. It embodies the spirit of America. Capitalism is about maximising profit. Open source achieves that by being free (as in beer) on the whole. American's also love freedom of speech. Open source is more than freedom of speech. It's freedom of information. Companies don't like this fredom because they can't control it. It is cancerous but this isn't a bad cancer.
If I put my blood and sweat into a piece of software and GPL it I sure as hell don't want a closed sourced vendor to take my hard work and make money from it - I don't see how that is unammerican. It's not Marxist, as some suggest, I still believe the code is mine and there's ownership to that code. It's just that i've made it freely available provided you follow some simple rules.
Another point. The business value of code is not tied to applications as such.. it's tied to the code that bridges those applications. That's where you pay money the money for programmers. Open source will generally have no effect on the value of this important intellectual property. It just means you may not have to reinvent the wheel to do a job that's partly been done before..
And besides, even if his logic was sane, if people are outsourcing jobs to india to save money then by the same token the open source neutron bomb should be able to take a chunk out of the market value of a few corporations. You can't have your cake and eat it.
Simon.
From the article... >>This feature makes selling GPL'ed software inane because anyone that agrees to the terms of the GPL can also have a copy of the same software with the code - for free. There are a lot of businesses making some fine money from selling that free software. Redhat, Gentoo, Mandrake, etc.
One just needs to look to IBM for a great counter-argument. A few months ago IBM announced that it was going to form special groups of IT people that would each concentrate on a different area(ex: manufacturing, retail, banking etc). They will get a base of FOSS then add custom software etc to that base to help the business be the most efficient it can be. Having worked in a manufacturing environment that made extensive use of Linux, I can tell you, it is a great help.
The offshoring thing is also laughable. A lot of what is being sent offshore is stuff like back office banking coding, not a whole lot of FOSS software for that. FOSS helps level the playing field between giant corporation and small business. Now a little guy can get into the game without having to sign over his first born for windows licences or have to have an army of lawyers on standby in case the BSA comes knocking on their door because someone forgot to activate their copy of XP.
Which brings me to a random aside, if you really want to avoid being offshored, SPECIALIZE! Learn something in addition to CS.
The simple version: I make money using open source software, because the marginal cost to learn or use just one more tool is zero. With closed source software, I have to pay somebody for everything that I use, which limits the number of tools that I have.
So, when I have all these free tools laying around with no restrictions, I'm better off because I am limited only by my imagination. My counterparts who are limited by the size of their wallets can't compete with me.
The end story is that if I'm an employee, I get bigger raises. If I'm a business, I have more money to hire people with.
This is America, damnit. Speak Spanish!
A large service industry that is not outsourceable.
And if you thought that was boring you obviously havn't read my Journal ;-)
How does open source cause outsourcing? People are still needed to configure and support it, and since it's free, they can spend more to support it. Support (the kind found at enterprises) is very hard to outsource because it requires local people. Closed source can only be fixed by that company. Can someone explain their reasoning for me?
I'm in the hole of the broadband donut.
It's obvious that Free software will cause the business in proprietary software fall sooner or later. It's just not news.
The question is: is it a BAD thing?
Of course, there will be bleating about lost jobs. In the long term, though, it will be only a tiny number which will be absorbed elsewhere as companies have more money to spend on making software what they really need, thanks to the ability to customize. They will have to employ programmers to do this for them or other companies to provide this service. Open source will be bad news for some developers and some customers, but it's very good news for many more companies. Business models sometimes go out of date. People have to deal with it.
I believe in the long run, OSS will be good for employment and the IT industry; it will take away artificial scarcity. It's funny how we as a human race clamour for instant and inexhaustable supply of everything, but as soon as we make something that's easy to make an instant an inexhaustable supply of (a copy of a program), we suddenly have to make it artificially scarce!
Oolite: Elite-like game. For Mac, Linux and Windows
...is clearly an asshat. And I don't use that word lightly friends. Here's two quotes that stood out for me:
..and
"However, the open source strategy is a triple-edge sword..."
If you're going to use an analogy how about one that at least sort of makes sense. For some reason I keep thinking about those triple bladed Gillette MACH 3 razors here.
"...most free software such as Linux, (the most popular because of its operating system capability)"
I could've shown you the many typos and bad sentence structure but this one statement shows how little this writer (or his 'writing capability') understands about Linux and/or Open Source.
They give people like this positions where they're stuff can be read by the public?! Amazing!
"...Well, there's egg and bacon; egg sausage and bacon; egg and spam; egg bacon and spam; egg bacon sausage and spam..."
Open Source software...that will destroy 85% of the market value of US companies and drive companies who are currently outsourcing to "draconian measures even worse than outsourcing."
The market value of a few software companies is irrelevent compared to the massive increases in productivity and standards of living that result from free software. Even though the world is awash in free software, creating systems and solutions using it is still very lucrative. Ask IBM.
an ill wind that blows no good
"Closed source software, on the other hand, is safe, secure, promotes capitalism, whitens teeth, burns calories, promotes hair growth, feeds and grooms your pets, vaccuums your living room, cures cancer, and fights terrorists."
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it!
People all over the country are destroying the American way of live by entering into a Marxist arrangement called "Marriage" in which they agree to share resources.
This "Marriage" is destroying the market for prostitutes and other providers traditional pay-per-use facilities. While it is true that using the opensource style "Marriage" arrangements it is often more difficult to arrange to get sex, with cryptic error messages like "I've got a headache" with no friendly interface where you can uncheck headache box and get your end in, many people are still choosing this threat to society.
It must stop. Join with the good capitalists and put an end to these terrorists trying to take out country by stealth. Ban marriage!
This has been going on for a long time. I personally remember the original SCO losing sales to MS as developers began to port products over to DOS and Windows. This meant that qualfied admins were being replaced with college kids who knew Windows.
Then it was the visual languages. A person no longer needed to have a basis in best coding practices and best GUI practices. Just whip some widgets on the screen, and look Ma, I got me a program thingy.
Then it was Frontpage. Who needs W3C compliance. Who needs to employ web browser developers. MS gives away IE and kills the browser industry. Who needs to hire qualified developers. Just put some Flash on the screen, say it is IE only, and the public will think it is a proffesional job.
"She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
"Not Found
The requested URL http:// was not found on this server."
I think its important to realize that the author of the story *is not missing the point* of Open/Free software. He clearly sees it for what it is (at least partially,) an attack on corporate models along the lines of Microsoft (and Sun and IBM before they started to come around.)
GNU/Linux is that! It is true that GNU/Linux advocates want proprietary, closed-source models to fail. The author gets this. In his opinion that is a really bad idea because a huge chunk of US GNP is based on that closed model.
Now whether or not you agee with the conclusion drawn is one thing, but you should not be accusing them of being unaware of the realities.
Article summary:
85% of market value of US companies == intangible
intangible value == IP
F/OSS software == anti-IP (& in fact will destroy it, somehow)
Therefore, F/OSS == the destruction of 85% of the value of US companies
I don't know where to begin, this article is so full of holes.
Probably the most glaring error is equating "intangible value" with "IP," and claiming that F/OSS will destroy the former by avoiding the latter. First of all, F/OSS is not anti-IP. If anything, it is merely anti exploiting-IP-till-it-squeaks, but the GPL (etc.) are all about copyright, not against it. Second, what the hell does any of that have to do with trademarks? Last, but certainly not least, where are this guy's numbers? If 85% of "market value" of companies is intangible, and open source and outsourcing are going to destroy that value, wouldn't there be some measurable impact since 1998 (when the 85% number came from) with the increase of Linux market share and outsourcing the last several years? There ought to be some evidence for his position if it is at all defensible.
Well, that's enough rant for now. I've probably made even less sense then this bozo, but idiotic, scare-mongering, groundless spin like this makes my blood boil. (Which is why I avoid TV even more in an election year.)
The bigotry of the nonbeliever is for me nearly as funny as the bigotry of the believer. - Albert Einstein
I just love it when people say open source is anti-capitalist and unamerican. I think quite the opposite. It embodies the spirit of America. Capitalism is about maximising profit. Open source achieves that by being free (as in beer) on the whole.
After hearing at least this argument and the opposite argument (that it's communist) 1,000 times, I've got a neat theory: Open source combines the best aspects of both systems. You get the cheapness, efficiency, and transparency of a free market and you also get the equality and sharing of a communist model.
Ideal communism (as opposed to Soviet and Chinese communism) doesn't allow for copyrights (it would fly straight in the face of the communal model of sharing), and while the GPL relies on copyright for keeping the source open, under communism you would have to share source code you write, since it belongs to the state for everyone's use, so both achieve the same noble end.
Free-market capitalism (as opposed to our crony capitalism and corporatism) maximizes efficiency by setting marginal cost to marginal price, which in the case of software, movies, music, etc., is very close to zero. If you supply the resources, like with P2P, it would be free.
Open source also avoids the pitfalls of both systems. It gets around the state censorship problem by distributing control - anyone can fork off a project is she/he feels like it. It also avoids the problems of monopolists, rent-seekers, corporate censors, and other dirtbags that you find in capitalism.
The open source and free software is a natural response to draconian measures by proprietary software companies.
It is a response to over priced buggy software.
It is a response by developers that are tired of monopolistic control artificially imposed by vendors of propriatary software.
Open software wrenches the control back to the individual and individual developer.
It may shift control and the current business model but it will hardly mean the end to the software business. Open source software has already changed the software business and it is going to overtake it in my opinion. The only question is are the software development shops going to adapt or die?
Got Code?
1) That liberal IP policies and free software will shrink the value of existing IP property. False - it will probably raise the total amount of IP capital over the long run. More producers of IP will have access to more tools and be able to provide more solutions on more platforms.
2) Outsourcing is bad - okay outsourcing is bad.
3) Outsourcing ruins US IP. The value a company places on a process, technology etc, is purely subjective. There's an accounting value - which is a function of the acquisition cost and r&d costs, but if they value an asset they will protect it. Companies that take core business processes overseas where IP property theft is rampant are either stupid, or these processes don't have a lot of value.
4) GPL only allows you to develop GPL software - Where do I begin - he said shaking his head in dismay. You can write (and people do write) closed source software based on an cooperating with Open Source software. In some cases you must release certain parts of code, in other cases you can keep it all locked up. Either way, Oracle, IBM, BEA, Sun, etc. all have proprietary software that runs on GPL based platforms.
5) The author assumes that the accounting value of IP = the real value of IP. In some cases you have large "IP assets" that are worthless. Think OS2 software. However, you have to depreciate them on your books because of accounting rules. Also, it doesn't follow that enforcing all your IP claims will make the economy better off. If everyone started suing everyone else over IP, then no one could produce software and what little there was would skyrocket in cost. Remember IBM owns a little here, Oracle some ther, Intel has some, etc. but no one owns even enough to make a complete O/S.
That what's in GPL'ed software is necessarily valuable IP. In some cases these are concepts that have been written about in O/S textbooks for 30 years! Many are based on industry standard APIs or widely adopted practice. Read - Unix like kernels and related software are good, stable technologies but not exactly hot off the press.
Summary - The Tocquaville author is an idiot
Leave the gun, take the cannoli -- Clemenza, The Godfather
Now that I think of it, I think I've actually seen a triple-bladed sword. It was the day ATi released the 4.3 Catalyst update to my Radeon 8500. I installed it, rebooted, and proceeded to play Dark Age of Camelot.
:P
Hoo boy! I had lines going every which way, textures out of place, the works! But I remember that those who held flame or ice blades had three or four polygon planes of blade sticking out (instead of fire or ice effects)!
Uhhhh, no... That's probably not what the writer of this article was thinking.
"...Well, there's egg and bacon; egg sausage and bacon; egg and spam; egg bacon and spam; egg bacon sausage and spam..."
According to Netcraft, www.adti.net is running FreeBSD.
Why, oh why, does the Alex de Tocqueville institution hate freedom so?
He's assuming that the direction the US IT industry was headed was a good a direction, with a small minority of people owning everything. I agree, free software does strike a major blow to US corporations, and this is a good thing. Of course we can expect him to whine about how it's hurting them, but that's exactly what the point is, it's to loosen the grip of major corporations on IP, at all costs. It doesn't make sense to give corporations complete control over IP, if, in the long run, they'll simply lock it up and throw away the key, keeping a small team of programmers around for maintenance activities after the majority of work is done, but still charging the same price.
As far as free trade goes, let's try not be naive. He's implying that corporations are really nice guys who wouldn't offshore if only we could get rid of free software. This is an old trick. What he's doing, is he's taking two groups that are a threat to the IT industry, and these groups are:
1. IT workers who have recently been laid off and are upset at the industry for offshoring.
2. Open Source programmers who are creating software for free.
Now he is setting them up to fight amongst themselves so that they'll ignore what the industryis doing. The company I work for is doing the same thing. We have a Union here that is set to strike any day now. They keep bringing up the Union member's wages and saying,"See, look how much they get paid for what they do." Nevermind that they get paid a fraction of what I get paid. The assumption that they are implying is that the Union, by asking for higher wages, is causing my salary to drop and leeching off the company. That's pure nonsense. When low-level workers make more, then that causes everyone else wages to go up as well. This kind of wage inflation might be seen as a bad thing, until you realize where the money is coming from. It's coming from the top 1%. That top 1% owns about 43% of the wealth in the US, and they've managed to acquire 15% of that 43% in the last 20 years. When one knows that single fact, it's easy to see who the leeches are. They've stolen a huge chunk from Americans through scams such as free trade, credit cards, IRA's, Enron, Haliburton, etc., and getting some of is back to the people who actually work for it is a good thing in my opinion.
Yes. De Tocqueville described a young America built on freedom, innovation, and opportunity -- the same ideas that underly F/OSS. For this bunch of reactionaries to call themselves the "Alexis de Tocqueville Institution" is like starting an anti-semitic group and calling it the "Simon Wiesenthal Institution," or a group dedicated to the restoration of the monarchy and calling it the "Thomas Jefferson Institution," or ... oh, hell, you get the idea.
The correlation between ignorance of statistics and using "correlation is not causation" as an argument is close to 1.
Just a derivative work of the Linux kernel? I doubt it. If MS really wanted to make a proprietary Linux distribution, they'd probably bundle it with a bunch of closed source user space software. You'd still be free to resell the kernel they gave you (and any modifications they made to it) for $14.95, but you wouldn't be able to redistribute other MS programs just because they came on the same CD-ROM.
Frederic Bastiat in 1848 wrote a nice essay called "That Which is Seen and That Which is Not Seen" dealing with this topic handily. A good portable copy is at Memoware.
However, then as now many lawmakers were persuaded by this lie and protected the established players from competition. Because of bullshit analyses like Tocqueville's we can look forward to many more years of a sluggish economy. As soon as we stop shielding big players vis-a-vis "intellectual property" we'll see a nice upturn.
Our intelligent designer has never created an animal that we couldn't improve by strapping a bomb to it.
"If some punks run around town breaking windows, it will actually help the local economy (eg. the local shoe maker, etc.). This is because the home owners with broken windows will purchase new windows from the local Hardware store, and hence the hardware store owner will buy his children new shoes."
This fallacy is as old as time itself. It is provably false, trivially. (Breaking the windows increases entropy, reducing the total value in the system). The money going to buy the replacement windows would have been used on something else (eg. the shoes). The only winner is the company producing the windows. The loser is the community.
Microsoft is the maker of Windows, supplying all the local Hardware stores (the businesses producing software) with replacement Windows. Somehow, not being forced to buy new Windows every year or two will "hurt" industry. (Oddly enough, Microsoft gets to go around breaking its own Windows, and forcing you to upgrade...) The only loser will be those producers of proprietary software, who choose not to cooperate with, and take advantage of, those who produce FOSS . For example, Microsoft will lose, if I chose to use Debian for my next Enterprise project. Does that money vanish? No, it goes to my company's shareholders (via. Capital Gains or Dividends), or to my clients (due to lower prices), or to me (due to increased profits). It just doesn't go to Bill. Who loses? Bill. No one else. (Well, Tocqueville also loses, because Bill doesn't pay them to write stoopid articles any more, either...)
Take Apache, for example. Presumably, Apache hurts producers of Closed Source web servers. I cannot use the Apache code and re-brand it as "Joe's Web Server" (I think -- I haven't read the license, but I assume it is more like the GPL than the OpenBSD "free for any and all uses" license). However, this only hurts me if I (Joe) decide not to arrange my affairs to take advantage of Apache!
If I choose to fight Apache, then I am (probably) reducing the overall value in the system. If I have some non-trivial value to add, then I should quit wasting my time re-writing the same code that the Apache team is writing, I should encapsulate my super-duper value in some kind of an add-on to Apache, and I'll start marketing my company as "Joe's Super-Duper Valuable Enterprise Support For Apache, That You Just Gotta Buy, If You're A CTO!"
There! I (Joe) win, Apache wins, my client's win. Microsoft (IIS) loses. Who cares?
-- -pjk Perry Kundert perry@kundert.ca http://kundert.2y.net
That's like saying 'real feudalism (i.e. a kingdom of God in which the Church and the monarchy are acting by divine rule), as opposed to the corrupt, rapine, impoverished system that passed for feudalism in the middle ages'. Perfect competition has never existed and will never exist. It is a model, for use in economic theory, that is intended to represent a theoretical tendency.
In REAL capitalism, i.e. the real, actual, existing economic system, since its birth several hundred years ago, (as Adam Smith repeatedly points out in Wealth of Nations incidentally) firms constantly attempt to influence and control goverment to pursue their own profit maximisation goals. This includes raising tariffs when they want them (i.e. against competitors) and lowering them when they are a problem (i.e. for export markets). Manipulation of politics for profit maximisation is and always has been a feature of REAL capitalism, and the inevitable result of this is non-free markets (although even without it, markets would not be 'perfect' as we do not have perfect information, 0 barriers to entry, etc).
John Maynard Keynes was an idiot. He convinced many governments that the way to create wealth was to print money
Keynesianism does not argue that the way to create wealth is to print money. It argues that the government should correct the cyclical fluctuations of the capitalist economy by creating countercyclical expansions and contractions--borrowing and spending in periods of contraction, paying off the debt in periods of expansion, not printing money, but trying to stabilise the economy through spending. Don't get the neoclassical synthesis (today's ISLM model) confused with original Keynesianism. There's a big difference.
And John Maynard Keynes was not an idiot; even if you disagree with him, he was ahead of his time.
The "American way" is not about capitalism, per se. It's about liberty. Sure, capitalism is a part of this, since it's the economic system that gives people the most freedom... but the founding documents of this country show no special devotion to capitalism. The Framers' attitude toward economics is best described as "As long as you pay your taxes and play fair, do whatever the hell you want."
Free software is indeed anti-capitalistic, sort of. Capitalism is based on the notion that the value of all goods can be measured monetarily; the idea that someone would be willing to code for free (or for some non-monetary benefit, like prestige) causes a division-by-zero error in the system.
But it's certainly not non-American, since it fits with the *real* American ideal of liberty: do what you want, as long as you don't hurt anyone. Free Software coders aren't hurting anyone other than by out-competing them (which is legal). They're helping a great many people: those who get neat software for free.
(If I start handing out free cookies in the street in front of a bakery, I'm not breaking the law. In fact I'm a major benefit to society, because people get free cookies. Whether the bakery goes out of business isn't my problem.)
Disclaimer: the *ideal* American Way involves liberty and governmental non-interference. It doesn't exactly work that way any more...
Well, I think the market would see a company with 85% of its assets in proprietary software in exactly the same way it would see a company with 85% of its assets in detachable shirt collars, or VAX hardware, or overalls for chimney sweeps, or rotary telephone dials.
There's nothing wrong with that. The economy marches on. You can't halt economic progress just because the market means that progress produces winners and losers.
Access to the source is nothing. Can the government fix the bugs in it, compile their own versions, and deploy it on government computers? Nope. So the source doesn't get them much, if anything.
I still have more fans than freaks. WTF is wrong with you people?