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Can Star Wars Episode III Be Saved?
mcwop writes "MSNBC is running a commentary asking: 'Can "Star Wars: Episode III" be saved?' It proposes changes such as ripping off Akira Kurosawa, getting the otherwise good actors to emote, and even firing Lucas. It is one year away, but is it too late to save Episode III?"
I see a bright future for the Star Wars prequels. Unfortunately, it's a more distant future than one year away.
Wait 20 years or so. The original trilogy will continue to be seen as a seminal work, and the "prequels" as a bastardized ripoff. Eventually, Lucas will die, or otherwise give up the franchise (maybe Michael Jackson can trade his Beatles songs for it).
Then, finally, someone can remake parts I through III the way they should have been done in the first place. No midchlorians, no virgin birth, no Jar Jar. Special effects that compliment the story, instead of overshadowing it.
Some future screenwriter and director will have the opportunity to give us back the thrill we had in the '70s, when we saw the original Star Wars in a non-multiplex theater, and were in awe. We who were preteens will be in our 50s... it won't be too late.
Something to look forward to! Just not in 2005.
Stressed? Me? Of course not. Stress is what a rubber band feels before it breaks, silly.
Does Lucas know how people feel? Does he listen to the criticism?
I know that there will be 100 posts saying this exact same thing by the time I click the submit button, but to answer your questions: Yes and No. He does know how people feel. He doesn't live in a little bubble in the Arizona desert. He may even read Slashdot while hiding under the identity of Paul Rothrock. But, in the end, Star Wars is not about the movies. It isn't about the story. The Start Wars books are far more interesting story-wise than the movies. It is about the marketing. If you go way back to A New Hope and read the behind-the-scenes stuff that went on to get the movie made, you can see that Lucas was keen on marketing. Everything else was just a hobby.
The previous comment is purposely vague and generalized, but all of the facts are completely true.
AHHHHHHH! I'm burning with goodness again!
- Reakk, Sluggy Freelance
Yes, it could be saved. Fire lucas, hire David Brin. His misguided/evil Yoda plot line is brilliant. He's correct when he says, "Almost the entire list of awful coincidences and silly paradoxes can be eliminated...It could even go down in history as something profoundly moral and clever."
I already told several people that I will not be seeing Ep III because Brin's conclusion to the series is so much better than anything Lucas could come up with.
"Weapons should be hardy rather than decorative" - Miyamoto Musashi
I think that goes for OS's too
or do like the 80's show Dallas and have it all be a dream sequence and make a Good Movie for a change.
Lucas will never allow anyone to do anything with Star Wars. In fact, his best buddy Steven Spielberg has already spoken about this. Lucas feels that the Star Wars saga will be his legacy and he doesn't want anyone messing with it. Spielberg practially begged Lucas for a chance to direct a Star Wars film and Lucas said no. So I can't see Lucas willingly giving up control to anyone. And with the new copyright laws, his family will be able to control Star Wars indefinitely. So you can forget about a Star Wars film ever being made by anyone with talent.
GMD
watch this
Ep. 2 WASN'T better, it was object oriented programming. He used the drag and drop approach to build a mediocrity.
Once again no one on Slashdot is talking about the truth of the situation. Lukas is getting you to pay for a paradigm shift to digital movie making. All he needs is for the movie to be good enough to cover costs. He could probably write off the cost as R&D anyway because that's what he's doing. He is doing a proof of concept for all digital filmmaking. He is not telling a story, He is not making a movie, and he is definitely not making art of any kind.
Maybe I'm in the minority, but I actually LIKED the first two movies. Granted, Phantom Menace didn't exactly rise to the level of Empire Strikes Back, but it was still an alright movie. I didn't really see anything wrong with Episode II - I actually enjoyed it a lot.
You would think from all the ranting and raving you always see on here that I'm in the minority, but well, you know.....those two films DID make a LOT of money..... So, SOMEONE out there must have liked them because they sure spoke with their wallets. *shrug*
I dunno. Sometimes I think people had some unrealistic expectations of the prequels, based on memories of movies they saw as kids 20 years ago. Imagine yourself as the same kid from 20 years ago watching the two prequels and I'd be willing to bet you'd have liked it a lot better than you do now as an adult.
Just my opinion, for what it's worth....
-Ken
It was ruined as soon as the Midochlorians came into the picture. If that's all that matters, why didn't Yoda just give Luke a blood transfusion before facing Vader? He could have pumped up those midochlorians before Luke's encounter.
Lucas took all the magic out of Star Wars. He actually managed to go back in time and ruin the original three episodes with his pseudo-scientific explanation. And the new stuff stinks. As much as I hate the Jar-Jar character, I sympathised with him when he stepped in that pile of sh*t. That's exactly how I felt while watching Episode III.
Oh, Lucas knows that people don't like what he's done. The problem is that he thinks they are all wrong and doesn't want to hear it. In fact, CNN was refused access to Attack of the Clones based on a Connie Chung interview where she told Lucas that most people thought TPM was a disappointment. If you're going to kick the media off your property and deny them access to a major news story just because they suggested that the film didn't live up to expectations, I don't think you can honestly claim that you're open to criticism.
As far as his "reputation as a filmmaker", I think Lucas must realize now that he really isn't a filmmaker. He knows that Star Wars will be his legacy. So he really doesn't care about looking like some kind of great director because he knows he'll never direct again. That's probably one reason he's so possessive of the films -- he knows this is the last movie he'll ever direct.
GMD
watch this
Star Wars is barely related to the Hidden Fortress.
Hidden Fortress:
Two peasant farmers are refugees, trying to return home after a war. They find gold, and join with a mysterious powerful-looking man and a mysterious beautiful girl. Together they attempt to smuggle the gold across the border and evade capture.
Star Wars:
Farmboy Luke Skywalker finds more than he bargained for when he gains possession of two androids, who lead him on the adventure of his life to save a beautiful princess, befriend a devil-may-care space smuggler, and save the galaxy from the evil clutches of Darth Vader. Tutored by the mysterious Obi Wan Kenobi, Luke must "Learn the ways of the Force" and destroy the Death Star.
Key differences:
There is a powerful virile General (Mifune) in HF. In SW you have an aged magician (Kenobi) and an untrained boy (Luke).
In HF the princess is on the run to an allied province. In SW, the princess is captured and must be rescued.
In HF, the whole point is to get the princess safely to the allied province. In SW, the whole point is to blow up the Death Star.
SW has super powers (The Force). In HF, everyone is obvious merely human.
SW is a much more action oriented affair. HF is based more upon the interaction between the characters.
Similarities:
There is a princess in both.
There is a comic relief duo in both. SW, the droids. HF, the peasant farmers.
I know Lucas wants to compare himself to Kurosawa but he really copied 30s movie serials, not Hidden Fortress. About the only thing he took from HF is the comedy duo.
Also, Hidden Fortress really isn't Kurosawa's best work. Rashômon, Seven Samurai, Yojimbo, and even Ran are far surperior to Hidden Fortress. However, they are much better known and Lucas wouldn't have been able to get away with claiming ripping them off.
In terms of a story in was not groundbreaking. In terms of acting it was not groundbreaking. However, it did put a new twist on the generic story and minimal acting.
I saw the original three in the theaters when they were originally released. I saw the first more times than I care to admit. I saw the second more times that I care to admit. I saw the third maybe twice. The last one just did not meet my expectations. I am sure Fisher was put in a bikini merely to compensate for the lack of quality.
I next saw Star Wars when it was released on VHS. I was in my teens. I feel asleep half way through. I have seen it several times since. I have stayed awake, but frankly it is not in my collection of movies that I watch once a year of so. I saw the reedit in the theaters. I did not bother to see the other two. I am a fan. At one time I could run the dialogue, story-line, etc.
So what I see happening is people romanticizing the quality of the original trilogy. I also see people expecting an older director and writer to have the same originality of a young director and writer. Both of these lead to unreasonable expectations.
I personally do not see that the prequels are any more or less quality than the originals. I do see Lucas trying to remake the story to fit modern sensibilities and assumptions. I do not think this is unreasonable. Also, like in the originals, he maximizes the use of technology. This of course changes the look of the prequels, which annoys some people, but remains true to the spirit of the franchise. if the trend continues, and the final three eps are made, I fully expect them to be fully CGI. The original weren't simply because the technology did not exist.
"She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
Thanks for making me feel old. Episode IV was very popular among my friends and I at the time when we were 10 or so years old.
We had quite sophisticated tastes back then:
Saturday morning cartoons
Bicycles
Peterbuilt/Kenworth/MAC big-rig trucks & CB radios
Hotwheel/Matchbox car collecting
Catching insects and lizards
Tormenting the red ant nest at school
Planet of the Apes (all of them) along with SWAT/Emergency!/6 Million Dollar Man were the best of Hollywood, and KISS was the best musical band.
Is it any wonder as adults we see these films differently?
I tried every decent and legal way I could think of to resolve the issue w/the business before I rented the chicken suit
There seems to be an underlying assumption by a lot of guys here that Episodes 1 and 2 were enjoyable only by children under 10.
Wrong.
I have two hardcore Star Wars fans aged 7 and 8, and they hated those movies. They hated the plodding plotlines, the goofy looking spaceships and the crappy merchandising that resulted.
See for yourself. Go to a toy store. Tons of Episode 1 and 2 toys in the clearance bin. X-Wings still selling strong.
The only redeeming qualities they seemed to find in the new movies was the Pod Race (which the movie bent painfully over backwards to somehow turn into a plot point) and, sadly, Jar-Jar Binks, who young children find amusing and will even take great pains (yours) to imitate. Although they still want to be Darth Vader on Halloween.
The latter day episodes just plain suck. Even kids will tell you that.
I was 8 when it came out, and I can remember seeing the movie 9 different times. It was the first time I can remember that whenever a friend went to see it that their parents would take all the kids buddies. So my parents only took me once, but we all saw the movie multiple times... it was truly a group experience. I believe that is why it is such a cult movie.
On top of that, I clearly remember watching a documentary of the making of the movie, all the special effects, in school, in our library with all the third graders.
These are the reasons why so many people in their thirties have such a communal tie to Star Wars. Later when Empire was released, all of your friends who saw the first movie got back together to see the sequel. When Jedi came out, we were all older, and saw the Ewoks as this pandering too young kids, because we felt the movie was for us personally, those who saw the original Star Wars in the theater. We wanted Jedi to be targeted to us. When (understandably) Lucas wanted to bring more young children into the Star Wars cult, we protested. Take this to the ultimate level with Jar Jar and Phantom Menace, and we can see why so many felt the movie to be poisonous trash. It was taking our childhood youth icons and giving it away to others.
Perhaps if we could all watch Episode 3 through the eyes of an 8 or ten year old, we would enjoy the experience much better.
How much of its impact on cinematic culture was the movies themselves? and how much was that at the time, no sci-fi(in the broadest sense, Star Wars is not as sci-fi as say Blade Runner) movie explored the same themes?
i s-are-being-killed-all-over-now. But they can't really "save it" to the point of making it a better prequel movie than the movies in the IV-V-VI position. Better special effects, yes, a good enough plot? Maybe, for those who haven't seen the original movie, but not for the hardcore fans. That's the third "weakness" of this movie, it's a wide-audience movie, but with entrenched fans who have a great deal of influence, by disseminating(and tainting) information about the coming movie, interesting people with less first-hand knowledge of the series. That the last movie in the trilogy came out in theatres in 1988 means people less 21 years of age won't remember the theater version of the movie either. Another "chink" in the third movie's armor.
The question "Can it be saved?" also brings up the question: "From what?" From being overmarketed? Nothing can save it from that. From being light fluff, with low content, and being fixated on characters we know from the other movies, and yet have a darker feel to it? Not sure it can be saved from this last one, because...
because...
because that's probably the best that can be hoped for from this movie.
Read that again,
IMO Empire strikes back was the darkest of the original trilogy, and it certainly brought new elements to the trilogy the other two movies didn't. It was the most content-rich of the two, as it explored the Jedi in detail, as well as Darth Vader, and his relationship to Luke, it also fleshed out important characters, introduced new ones that would become important in the third movie, and was generally the more developed(plot/character wise) of the three. It went somewhere(to a big cliffhanger to be specific), and added a lot of "deep thinking" material(is Lando trustworthy, what's gonna happen to XYZ, etc...)
It basically left no stone unturned in the Star Wars universe. That's why Return of the Jedi could be so light on content, and had to be action-driven, the work had already been done, and it would have been redundant to develop nearly as much characters/situations/worlds. So ROTJ was a localized plot, with galaxywide repercussions.
As for the first movie, its impact was probably most measurable under the special effects category, of which Lucas could be considered "Core Developer" if not "maybe-not-so-Benevolent Dictator" to use the Linux term. Noone had really used special effects to that degree before 1977(to my knowledge) and he certainly influenced the Hollywood adoption of
1) derived products
2) sequels
He may also have created the first american Otaku (fanboys).
Can any of this be expected of the sixth movie in the series, especially since it's a "prequel" where we might not know the details, but we certainly know the ending.
It can be good entertainment, if they work at it. And the work I'm talking about isn't an ILM, it's in the script department, and hence, it might be a heck of a lot too late to "save" that particular movie, since the plot part was set in stone ages ago... They can try to avoid fluff, as much as possible in the third movie, and keep it gritty, the-real-world-is-a-bad-place-especially-that-Jed
Maybe they should have tried for the original set of sequels(it was meant as a nine-movie set, at one point), despite the fact that Anakin Skywalker was probably the most interesting, complex character in the bunch.
"Actually, the original Star Wars was a sleeper. Meaning that it didn't get released with a lot of fanfair in May of 1977."
:-)
I was 12 and growing up in Columbus Ohio before the movie came out in May 1977, and I can tell you that it definitely a *huge* deal, marketing or no marketing.
I was pulled out of school early so that we could go see it on its opening day near where I lived on the east side. By the time we pulled into the driving lot of this huge 1-screen theater, there was a loooooong line forming outside the doors, so I was pushed out of the car to stand in line while the car was parked.
Call me silly, but 1-3 block lines of people standing outside the theater before the first show don't strike me as symptoms of a sleeper.
Chuck
The character of Luke was originally supposed to be a woman. I had a portfolio of production paintings from Star Wars ("A New Hope" for you youngin's) and there are several pictures where Luke's character was painted as a woman.
And it certainly would have changed the whole love-triangle dynamic. Instead of Lucas copping out by making Luke and Leia (sp?) brother and sister, it could have been lucky Han Solo and the Skywalker Twins!
Boobies never hurt anyone. - Sherry Glaser.
I'm not a space geek so it outta mean something when I say I'd rather watch another Star Trek movie than Episode 3. And as annoying as they are, trekkies are much better company than the rabid Lucas and Star Wars freaks.
Here's a tip for both: when presented with a paradox, it is okay to say, "Yeah, Lucas/Roddenberry was on crack when he thought of that."
Yeah, you big jedi, future emperor, kills jarjar... Easy kill. to easy.
I say that makes the future anakin look weak.
I suggests he has jarjar tried and executed as traitor when he good-naturedly tries to warn somebody about some impending doom.
That would be more in line.
Anakin kills the remainder of the jedi council, yet escape yoda does.
Amidala returns to naboo when she finds out she's pregrant. The births are secret, the kids are raised by truested friends. She dies mysteriously (by anakin, who is now in the dark side for sure), and the two children are spirited away... Luke to tattoine because that's where Irish boy kenobi went to hide... Besides, the planet is poor, out of the way, and controlled by the Hutt... And that leaves everyone where they need to be for episode 1.
Anyway. The movie is going to suck horribly.
It will probably be worse than Troy...
"Piter, too, is dead."
That means that JarJar will be killed in episode 3.
Sadly, no.
Apparently there was a rogue faction at ILM that came up with a sub-plot for Episode III that would have let Jar-Jar redeem himself through some sort of sacrifice that ended up leaving him dead, but Lucas nixed it.
A four-word prediction for the OT DVD release: Gungans in the Cantina. "Meesa have the death penalty on twelve systems!"
"...always new atoms but always doing the same dance, remembering what the dance was yesterday." -Richard Feynman
"There is no Jar Jar (*cough*) in episodes IV, V and VI."
Jaba and (especially) Bobba Fett weren't in IV, at least not the first time around. If Lucas can make Greedo shoot first, I'm sure he can squeeze Jar Jar into the re-re-re-re-remastering of IV, V and IV.