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Alternatives to Cars?
H0NGK0NGPH00EY asks: "I hate cars. -- Why in the heck am I lugging a giant steel box with me everywhere I go, and paying through the nose to make it go? Well, the main reason is because there aren't any affordable, viable alternatives. Are there?"
"I drive about 18 miles to work, mostly pseudo-highway (60mph, two-lane
road with two stop lights on the way). Too far to bike, or I would--during the summer months, at least. I would get a motorcycle, but in my mind, it's only better than a car on one count, it's size. It still uses gasoline, is dirty, noisy, and has too many moving parts. Plus they don't protect me from the weather.
I've looked into small, commuter electric vehicles. And I've come up largely empty-handed. Here's what I have found:
Corbin Motors' 'Sparrow'
As you may know, Corbin produced about 300 of these beauties before one of their largest investors called in his money, and forced them into Chapter 7 bankruptcy. There were a number of technical problems, and due to their scarcity they're a bit hard to come by now. Besides, who would want to spend $7,000 + on an un-supported vehicle?
Cree's 'SAM'
Basically the same as the Sparrow, but not available yet. The company has been around since 1996(!), and has just recently basically 're-started.' Who knows when, if ever, they'll have a marketable product, especially in the USA.
Commuter Cars' 'Tango'
A local guy with a dream. And a dang fine looking vehicle. But alas, also not in production in any real way, and only currently available in a $85,000 kit. He talks about a $20,000 mass-marketed version, but I'll believe it when I see it...
Nevco's 'Gizmo'
Finally one that appears to actually be available. But at $12,000 it's a little steep for me, especially seating only one and only getting up to 45mph, with a 45 mile range.
So, has anyone here had any better luck?"
I've looked into small, commuter electric vehicles. And I've come up largely empty-handed. Here's what I have found:
Corbin Motors' 'Sparrow'
As you may know, Corbin produced about 300 of these beauties before one of their largest investors called in his money, and forced them into Chapter 7 bankruptcy. There were a number of technical problems, and due to their scarcity they're a bit hard to come by now. Besides, who would want to spend $7,000 + on an un-supported vehicle?
Cree's 'SAM'
Basically the same as the Sparrow, but not available yet. The company has been around since 1996(!), and has just recently basically 're-started.' Who knows when, if ever, they'll have a marketable product, especially in the USA.
Commuter Cars' 'Tango'
A local guy with a dream. And a dang fine looking vehicle. But alas, also not in production in any real way, and only currently available in a $85,000 kit. He talks about a $20,000 mass-marketed version, but I'll believe it when I see it...
Nevco's 'Gizmo'
Finally one that appears to actually be available. But at $12,000 it's a little steep for me, especially seating only one and only getting up to 45mph, with a 45 mile range.
So, has anyone here had any better luck?"
"What are bicycles and public transportation, Alex?"
.@.
Unless you live in a major city in the US, there's no such thing as public transportation, and heck, in many large cities there isn't.
And, if you live in suburbia, it's just too far to ride a bike/walk.
The biggest problem with commuter electric vehicles is that most of them consume more energy per mile than an economy car with one occupant. Judging from the flames I've gotten in previous posts, I'll be conservative and say that this means that a Geo Metro or Toyota Echo or something will probably pollute less than your average CEV, depending on how your electricity is generated.
What would really work best is to carpool - never underestimate the gas/people ratio of a minivan full of 6-8 groggy people in business suits. It'd be a hell of a lot cheaper, too.
You can buy an older, used car for $3,000-5,000. If you learn to work on them yourself, you can save money on repairs and maintainence.
Sure, it won't be the shiniest, newest thing on the road, but you won't be shelling out $500 a month for a car payment, plus half that for full coverage insurance.
"I hate cars. --
Then why, do you have as the #1 thing on your 'wish list' on your website, a Chrysler PT Cruiser?
The post-WW2 era has resulted in communities that make cars just about mandatory. Occasionally a small town or city will ban cars from its city center, or create safe bike paths and pedestrian walkways, but those are exceptions. Most suburbanites don't like the idea of having any commercial activity whatever in their view, so that tends to put even the small local stores in strip malls on busy highways. That is not friendly to pedestrians or bicycles.
I would highly recommend investigating your locality's municipal transit system. Eighteen miles is a bit of distance on the bus, but it might be worth it.
Barring that, ask them about carpool and/or vanpool prospects.
This sig no verb.
I agree 100% with the parent poster.
I used to have a 250cc Honda, and it got over 65mpg. Mind you, with my fat ass on it, it topped out at about 70mph, but for commuting, that was more than adequate.
A windshield, some storage (saddlebags or luggage), a rainsuit, and proper attire (clothing and gear-wise), and you're pretty much set.
OK, silly subject headers aside -- electric cars may be quiet and clean, but they're usually not as energy efficient as they may seem. A good economy car can usually rival an electric car in terms of energy efficency...and they just wreck them in terms of cost (cheaper to purchase -- due to higher production volume and the use of cheaper materials, and definitely cheaper to own -- more moving parts, but parts are made from heavier, cheaper materials, and are available in higher volume and thus, the costs are reduced).
Motorcycles can be loud, and they can be smelly, but they're probably some of the most fuel efficient vehicles on the road. I've seen 60 MPG on an old ~600cc bike pretty consistently. I don't know what a newer bike can do, but they may be better. However, there are also the issues of weather protection and cargo space...but you were the one who didn't want a big steel box, so you may be out of luck if you want weather protection and cargo capacity in any suitable vehicle (unless you want a carbon fiber monocoque car...bling bling, baby).
It sounds like you're going to have a hard time finding transportation that you're happy with. Have you considered carpooling to work?
-Turkey
You can't have the best of both worlds.
... I'm too far off from dowtown and public transit blows.
:) The more people are interested in ditching their cars, the sooner cities will be forced to upgrade their public transit systems.
In the city I live in (Montreal), there is amazing public transportation. It would be a blatant waste of cash to park your car for $80/month downtown.. plus god knows how much in gas.
Obviously the response is "Waaaa waaaaa" in the city I live in
Well.. there people that pick the places they live in with transportation in mind. You can't expect society to bend to your will, because you need to subbornly live where you live.
If I suddently got a job opportunity in Austin Texas (I'm a software devel), the first thing I would be asking is how much are they paying me, and is there a good transit system to get me to work.. or a car pool.. or something.
You can kiss your $10 raise goodbye otherwise.
Basically I'm saying.. move to a better place, heck you might even make some money in real estate in the process
Love, Zaq
Finally one that appears to actually be available. But at $12,000 it's a little steep for me, especially seating only one and only getting up to 45mph, with a 45 mile range.
You want it to seat more than one, but you don't want a "giant steel box"? You want it to go more than 45 mph, but you don't want it to have "too many moving parts".
And 12,000 is too steep?
I guess that's why nobody is trying to make these cars. People like you may profess to want them - but aren't willing to compromise anything or pay a reasonable amount.
Let's not stir that bag of worms...
You have a choice where you live
Maybe so, but you don't always have a choice where you work. I don't think moving is what the OP had in mind.
Beauty is in the eye of the beerholder.
Maybe so, but you don't always have a choice where you work.
But you can live close to where you work, pretty much wherever your work happens to be. Moving in order to reduce the commute, use bicycles, or use public transportation is often a reasonable (and possibly money-saving) option.
I don't think moving is what the OP had in mind.
That's exactly the reason I mentioned it.
Nobody has to sign a contract when buying a motorcycle stating that he will ONLY ride the motorcycle every day for everything he is going to do for the rest of his life. I'm sure there are some people who only have a motorcycle and do not have a car, but I'm sure there are also many people who have a car in addition to a motorcycle. This guy in particular could use the motorcycle for his commute to save on gas, and then use his car in situations that warrant using a car(such as getting groceries in the snow).
And get > 40 mpg, 50 if you do all highway, but with the added benefit of things like a radio, a trunk, seatbelts, and your life if you ever get into a crash.
I want to delete my account but Slashdot doesn't allow it.
Culturally, and geographically the US is quite different than most regions. Partly because we developed infastructure later than most of the developed world, and partly due to the high value we placed on individual freedom and risk. We prefer single family dwellings (freedom over our home and property), and our transportation habits (freedom to go wherever we wish. As a result the US has invested heavily in housing outside the cities (Phoenix is an extreme example of how our cities look. We have also developed signficant infastructure to support these individual travel modes. We have a huge and complex highway system while our rail infastructure is largely used to transport bulk cargo. Other than a few cities on the coasts our population density is not large enough for even heavily subsidized mass transportation to be feasible at the present time. Cities such as Boston, New York, and San Francisco (as well as Washington DC but for different reasons) did not have enough space to support the same individualized transit system and have developed a more global level of mass transit infacstructure. Washington simply spends gigantic sums of federal money on both. The rest of the country has been built around transportation by auto and it would take considerable change to reshape that infastructure. The change would have to occur on many levels (taxation and credits), investments in infastructure, culturally, and likely a few additonal ways. In short unless we hit $100/barrel of oil price don't expect it anytime soon.
Degaussing scares the bad magnetism out of the monitor and fills it with good karma.
The cars in the US consume around 150 billion gallons of gasoline a year
In America alone 50,000 people die and 3,500,000 are injured each year in automobile related accidents
9 million metric tons of hydrocarbon pollutants (= 49% of U.S. total); 9 million metric tons of nitrogen oxides (= 48% of U.S. total); 56 million metric tons of carbon monoxide (= 67% of U.S. total) are released by cars and light trucks in the US each year
85% of benzene, 30% of formaldehyde (both of which are known human carcinogens) and 50% of carbon dioxide pollutions are released by cars and light trucks.
11 million cars leave service yearly, 240 million tires are junked each year which adds to the existing 3 or so billion tires allready in landfills
60% of land in, near and around urban centers is given up for transportation.
In the US 95% of nickel, 20% of steel, 12% of aluminum and 10% of copper all go to the production of cars.
The US spends about 80 billion dollars a year on maintaining transportation infrastructure and 68 billion is spent annually on services such as highway patrols, traffic management, and traffic accident police work.
I tried to find some statistics of how much of their income the average family spends on cars, fuel, insurance and up keep but couldn't.
Oh and I wasn't really picking on just the US with those stats, they were just the most readily googled!
In my experience with bikes is that they are far more useful that most Americans realize. Most people where I work bicycle to work. In the winter it does snow a fair amount where I live, and while I don't bike during winter, many of my younger co-workers bike all year. Rain, sleet, snow all are no big deal because if you are prepared for it you exposure is not that great. Most of those who do bike during winter do so as a matter of choice, they own cars & motorcycles. Sometimes it is snowing or raining hard enough that many people choose to drive to work, but this is only a few days a year! I carry luggage and groceries all the time on my bike, I can carry most of what I need. Sure cars are useful at times but most of the time they are just not needed! If, for example, I go out and buy a new sofa; I rent a small truck for an hour or two or have it delivered, I don't need to own the truck. This same thinking applies to cars. If I want to go to a nearby city I can take the train (which I know is not easy in the US) or I can drive, if I didn't own I car I could rent one for the day or weekend. Or to apply the thinking the other way around: Just because I own car does obligate me to drive everywhere I go.
Alternates to cars are also easy to maintain (bikes, for example, are very easy to maintain). I do all the work on my bicycle, most of the work on my motorcycle and almost no work on my car. Modern cars are very, very complicated, and I found that for even simple things like oil changes (due to oil disposal) and seasonal tire changes (due to tire storage) I find it just makes more sense to have a qualified mechanic to worry about the upkeep.
So in summary I find all the arguments that people make about why the have to have their car very week. I'm not really anti-car, I own one. But I don't use it every day because I don't have to, also by biking often I'm in better shape and healthier!
Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.
Obviously you don't ride a motorcycle. I have been commuting in Houston on a motorcycle for many, many years without an incident. I take the MSF (Motorcycle Safety Class) about once a year, I ALWAYS ride with gear (full face helmet, gloves, Kevlar shirt or jacket and pants, and boots), and ride rain or shine, and let me tell you it rains a LOT here in Houston (30+ inches a year). I drive like I am invisible, plan as far ahead as I can, and I LOVE MY RIDE every day! I'm getting 40+ mpg and had been commuting 60+ miles a day through downtown Houston, but one big advantage of a bike is it will get you on the HOV lane in major cities. If you are headed the same way as traffic wave to the folks in cars as you slide by them. Total cost of ownership of a bike is much less than a car, you can get a fabulous bike (DON'T GET A HARLEY, you have been warned!) for under $8000 new, and add a rain suit, helmet and clothes (you can get very nice looking gear that you can wear to work without being obvious), maybe another $2000 to be generous. Don't skimp on a helmet, get the best you can. Ride to Work day is July 17. http://www.ridetowork.org has info on it. The added visibility and maneuverability along with good training can make you a safe rider for life, and if you are like me you won't drive a card unless you have to, like going out with the family, or shopping for something that REALLY won't fit in the bike. You'd be surprised at how much you can take on one.
As an avid cyclist, I can vouch for the fact that 18 miles is not too far for a bicycle. After a month of commuting by bike, you'll find that distance (36 miles per day round trip) is like nothing. Of course this depends on terrain -- if the roads are dangerous or extremely mountainous, or if the weather is bad, it might not be practical. But the distance isn't a problem. I can haul my sorry 40 year old butt along at over 20 MPH on flat terrain, and 16-17 MPH in the mountains -- indefinately. You can too.
"The biggest problem with commuter electric vehicles is that most of them consume more energy per mile than an economy car with one occupant."
Where do you get this shit? It's all documented right here:
http://www.fueleconomy.gov
...and you're just plain wrong!
This is the situation for many, many people in some areas of the country:
I'll move near my work as soon as THERE IS ACTUALLY SOMEWHERE TO LIVE THERE besides a ditch somewhere in an industrial park.
*grumble*
--TheOrangeSquid Is it any wonder things seem so awry? We swim in a sea of confusion and don't have to think to survive