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Napster Launches UK Music Service

amichalo writes "Napster just went multi-continent with the surprise announcement of a Napster UK on-line music service. From the website, singles at 1.09 British pounds, albums start at 9.95 pounds. Availability for other European nations not available. Apple has previously announced they would be entering the European market by the end of the year with rumors of singles priced at 1.49 Euro."

48 of 172 comments (clear)

  1. No iPod support by Phantom69 · · Score: 5, Informative

    Only secure WMA downloads available. Not the greatest idea IMHO bearing in mind the popularity of the iPod.

    1. Re:No iPod support by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The RIAA isn't going to allow music stores to sell non DRM protected songs, and Apple is going to give up their hold on AAC. So there isn't a heck of a lot Napster can do about it.

    2. Re:No iPod support by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      Huh, Apple does not "hold" AAC.

      AAC is *not* an Apple format.

      AAC is *not* proprietary, contrary to WMA. It has designed and put out by the same people that brought you MP3, as a improved replacement for MP3, IIRC.

      The only thing Apple "holds" is the AAC+FairPlay combo, or, if you want, they seem to have some sort of exclusive license for FairPlay. I say "seem to have" because the exact origins of FairPlay seem to be nebulous (sp?).

    3. Re:No iPod support by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      You are 100% correct.

      I'm posting anonymously because I'd prefer Napster to _not_ know which school I'm from - they're currently in negotiations with us. I saw what happened to the last guy who spoke up on this topic, and I'd prefer to save us the hassle.

      Both Napster and Real/Rhapsody said the _same damn thing_ when we were talking to them: basically, that the RIAA was setting pretty much all the terms, and Apple/Real/Napster2 are just middlemen. If they could offer those songs at a cheaper price, _they would_. I don't trust any of them all that much, to be honest, but I really believe that they think the pricing and DRM schemes are bad, too.

      There's also a surprisingly large amount of oversight going on by the RIAA. When we were talking about volume pricing, both Real and Napster responded that they could offer us a better deal, but they'd _need to talk to the RIAA first_.

      Don't bitch at Apple, Napster2, and Real about the crappy prices and DRM. There's very little they can do about them. The RIAA is the bad actor here. You can get easy concrete proof of this because the academic contracts for Rhapsody and Napster2 both include the same terms about "stopping IP infringement on University networks".

      Since I posted as an AC, I understand a fairish number of you won't believe I'm telling the truth. That's fine, and I don't blame you. But for the rest of you: stop blaming Napster2 for being greedy with the prices and DRM. They're definitely not the ones responsible.

      It's another thing entirely to go say "this isn't a good value", though - I'm not sure it is.

    4. Re:No iPod support by Amiga+Lover · · Score: 2, Interesting

      On the other hand, since ITMS doesn't support the EU, the popularity of the iPod may fall dramatically now.

      Looks like Apple just lost half their target in the EU

    5. Re:No iPod support by Killer+Napkin · · Score: 3, Informative

      Nebulous? They own FairPlay. There's no ambiguity there. The grandfather post was basically saying that Apple isn't going to give up their hold on the AAC+FairPlay combo.

      To clarify, the RIAA is not going to allow any store (whether it be iTunes or Napster) to release songs without have a form of DRM. Since the AAC format is basically off-limits*, the only other viable alternative is DRMed WMA files.

      Also, don't pretend like AAC is some free format. It is patent-encumbered just like MP3 before it. As far as desktop is concerned, there will always be some guy who will write a decoder for free use. However, people who design hardware are not afforded these luxuries. The patent-holders WILL come down hard to collect their share of the royalties.

      For hardware developers, the choice is paying to use AAC and paying for some other non-FairPlay DRM or using WMAs with DRM and paying Microsoft. Either way, they're going to pay. Right now, WMAs are going to look the best. Maybe Ogg Vorbis and FLAC with some cheap DRM method will catch on, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

      Still, this industry is still a baby. Apple leads today, but WalMart, Napster, Microsoft, or anyone can basically take over.

      * Apple thinks that they can basically lock everyone else out of the market by being the only AAC+FairPlay vendor. Right now, they're using iTunes as a way get people to buy iPods, which is a HUGE money-maker for Apple. I'm not so sure this is a good idea, but that's the way it is.

    6. Re:No iPod support by Phantom69 · · Score: 2, Informative

      While I appreciate your point, I must point out the following:

      1) The latest market share information is as follows:

      Jan 2003 iPod 27% market share
      Nov 2003 iPod 31% market share:
      http://www.macworld.co.uk/news/main_news.c fm?NewsI D=7609

      May 2004 ? Unknown yet, but Apple have recently talked about the 800,000 iPods they've sold.

      But yes, 31% is still less than 69%. I don't know if all the other 69% are capable of playing DRM'd WMA's either, and if this market share is global or UK only.

      2) We are only talking about the UK Napster service here, and the iPod is undergoing a massive TV advertising campaign, something no other MP3 player manufacturer is currently doing in the UK. I would hazard a guess that the iPod is the player of choice of UK consumers, simply on this basis, and we haven't even got the iPod mini yet (and bearing in mind there were 100,000 on pre-order before it launched in the US...).

      3. What can Apple do to stop them distributing DRM'd AAC files anyway. They don't own the format do they?

    7. Re:No iPod support by CountBrass · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Well as it's the Record Industry Association of AMERICA who gives a flying fuck what they think in Europe? Not allofmp3.com for one, who sell music at 1 cent a megabyte with NO DRM.

      --
      Bad analogies are like waxing a monkey with a rainbow.
  2. not competitive by davids-world.com · · Score: 5, Insightful

    both prices seem inacceptable - given the current exchange rate, a song should not be more than about 0.85 euros, or 1 euro max (to round it up).

    The price difference is very evident in times when the American prices at iTMS are just one click away. Ripping off customers is the wrong signal for both stores, and for the music industry. Will they ever learn?

    1. Re:not competitive by not_a_product_id · · Score: 2, Insightful

      My local independent chain does new CDs of classics for 5 and new releases are 10 - 12. And I should pay this new napster 9.95 to download crippled electronic versions? I don't fucking think so!

      --

      ---
      We spoke for about a half an hour. I don't recall a thing we said. - Colorblind James Experience

    2. Re:not competitive by swright · · Score: 4, Insightful

      According to MacRumors.com the iTMS Europe will have songs for 1.29 Euros - but that includes a 19.5% sales tax. The [fixed] amount to be given to artists is 0.80 euro.

      Yes, more expensive than iTMS USA, but the USA price doesnt include a sales tax - apparently in states where there is a sales tax that is added on top.

      More info here

    3. Re:not competitive by DrEldarion · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The [fixed] amount to be given to artists is 0.80 euro.

      Given to artists, or given to the RIAA? If it will actually be given to the artist, I'd be seriously surprised and incredibly happy.

    4. Re:not competitive by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      Your use of the word inacceptable is unacceptable.

    5. Re:not competitive by ponxx · · Score: 4, Interesting

      That's completely normal. For some reason everyone has decided to simply charge more in Europe...

      I've recently tried to buy a new camera from Amazon. Canon EOS 300D is priced at:
      Amazon US: $850 (adding 20% sales tax-> $1020)
      Amazon UK: UKP 780 ($1400)
      Amazon Germany: EUR 1000 ($1200)

      I thought these markets are meant to be competitive? Why is Amazon UK charging a mark-up of more than 40% on a digital camera???

      Similar things go for cars, clothing, CDs, DVDs, etc. What is needed with all this globalisation is a complete freedom to re-import things from anywhere in the world, that would see prices crashing down right, left and centre!

    6. Re:not competitive by anonicon · · Score: 4, Informative

      I could be wrong, and since I'm posting on Slashdot, I probably am, but perhaps the reason why that Canon 300D is so much more in the UK or mainland Europe is because of government import taxes that are attached to it before it goes on sale.

      Every government charges differently, and since Amazon has to abide by their laws, the pre-sales tax cost will be different. Either that, or Amazon thinks UK shoppers are suckers. ;-)

  3. No link? by Mz6 · · Score: 4, Informative
    Seems the poster didn't want to include any links. For your reading pleasure..

    Napster beats iTunes to Europe with U.K. launch

    --
    Hmmm.
  4. 1.49 Euro by DrXym · · Score: 4, Funny
    1.49 Euro = 1.79 USD per track


    How do they keep their prices so low and still make a profit?

    1. Re:1.49 Euro by in7ane · · Score: 5, Funny

      You are not converting for the metric measurement properly.

      What you got to realize is that there are 10 bits per byte in the EU now, and so the costs are higher.

    2. Re:1.49 Euro by MoonBuggy · · Score: 3, Insightful

      1.09GBP = 1.95USD

      I think I speak for the majority of my country when I say "Napster, go cram your overpriced, lossy, DRMed WMAs that don't play on my iPod and cost more than a CD up your ass."

      I've yet to find an online store that has half of the bands I listen to available anyway. They have their CDs in Virgin Megastore, so it's not like I'm listening to anything that's totally obscure.

  5. Not that much cheaper.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

    That's really not that much cheaper than a "real" single... and you only have to look at a site like to see that pricing for "real" albums is already less than 9.99!

    1. Re:Not that much cheaper.... by swright · · Score: 2, Informative

      Everyone I've spoken to who buys from CD Wow these days says there are loads of problems getting a delivery from them - since they were banned from importing CDs from Asia (or wherever it was) and have to source them from within Europe now.

      Of course that might have improved, noone I know carried on trying with them...

    2. Re:Not that much cheaper.... by robbieduncan · · Score: 2, Informative

      I've bought 5 or so CDs since they were forced to source from Europe. 2 or 3 have had slight delays in shipping due to this, but I still tend to get them with 7 days of ordering.

      More annoying is the fact that many of the CDs are copy protected. Still my PowerBook seems to ignore all copy protection and rips them fine :)

  6. Bit bloody pricey eh? by phaze3000 · · Score: 4, Interesting
    1.09 for a single? When iTunes in the US is 99c (~ 0.56)?

    You're having a giraffe ain'tcha?

    --
    Blaming GW Bush for the Iraq war is like blaming Ronald McDonald for the poor quality of food.
  7. text for the hearing impaired? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    one thing i'm disappointed about those offerings is the fact that the formats they use can't store the text for the songs, so that hearing impaired people could follow a song while it's being played (alongside the vibration, the bass).

  8. pathetic browser support though by Gaima · · Score: 4, Informative

    I went along to the .com site last night, and was promptly redirected to the .co.uk as it has detected I was from the UK. Fair enough I guess.

    The free 11meg download intrigued me, so went to look. Didn't get far mind.
    At the bottom of the front page it does say:

    System Requirements
    PC only, Windows XP/2000, Microsoft Internet Explorer 5.1 or higher, Windows Media Player 7.1 or higher, Internet connectivity


    The page I was sent to, as a Konq user, was even worse:

    Napster is currently compatible with Windows XP/2000.
    Windows 95, Windows NT and the Mac OS are not supported at this time.


    They wouldn't have had my custom anyway, but even if they would have had, after that, no chance.
    Get with it Napster

  9. Hardly European by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    saying that Napster UK is Napster breaking into the European market is like saying that the USA and Europe went to war together in Iraq...
    we've been waiting for iTunes here in Ireland for the last 6 months or so and we're not holding our breath...

  10. 10 quid? Fuck off by Enlarge+Your+Penis · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I can get it on a CD with no DRM for that. Hell, if I take advantage of the current exchange rate I can probably get it for half

    1. Re:10 quid? Fuck off by Zog+The+Undeniable · · Score: 3, Informative

      You're absolutely right. Of course, the CD version is also uncompressed and sounds better, so you're being doubly screwed.

      --
      When I am king, you will be first against the wall.
  11. 10GBP for an album? by perly-king-69 · · Score: 4, Interesting
    So, do I download and burn 14 WMP files for 10GBP, or go to CDWOW or play.com and buy it for 8GBP?

    --

    --
    This sig is inoffensive.

  12. Likely cost breakdown by JosKarith · · Score: 4, Interesting

    "1.09 British pounds" Lemme guess -
    0.20 Tax
    0.01 Payment to the artist
    0.78 Music industry profits

    and now with added -
    0.10 DRM administration

    And you don't even have a physical object, so if your HDD fries you have to buy it all over again...

    My housemate downloads large amounts of music - as he puts it - "I paid for it once on vinyl, once on tape, once on CD. After my CD's were stolen did they really think I was gonna buy them all over again?"

    --
    'Don't worry' said the trees when they saw the axe coming, 'The handle is one of us.'
  13. Ridiculous prices by Nadir · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The Apple iTunes price of 1.49 for a single is ludicrous. Especially considering that the Euro is at $1.19 now.
    Haven't they considered that average European salary is less than in the US ?

    Bah

    Tristan

    --
    --
    The world is divided in two categories:
    those with a loaded gun and those who dig. You dig.
  14. An album is not 1 pound! by L.+VeGas · · Score: 3, Funny

    This article is just full of errors. I have lots of albums, and NONE of them weigh more than a pound.

  15. Branding and Napster by CharAznable · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Branding is one of the greatest scams ever perpetrated on people, but as long as they fall for it, it'll keep going. It might be a good service, or it might not, I haven't tried it to know, but I'd like to think that I'm smart enough to know that using the Napster trademark does not make you the successor of the Napster of old. If I ever use this service, it's because it's good and has a good selection and reasonable prices, not because of the Napster name.

    --
    The perfect sig is a lot like silence, only louder
  16. Crappy search engine too by 91degrees · · Score: 2, Funny

    "Yes, we have multiple resuilts for 'zerfnarkle'"

    Oddly enough "Beatles" didn't return "The Beatles" amongst the list of matches.

  17. 9.95 GBP for an album by amembleton · · Score: 2
    9.95 is a lot for an album. You can pick a real one (jewel case and everything) up for 8.99 GBP from CD-Wow.

    I'd prefer to convert music into my desired format, so I will continue to purchase physical media.

  18. Rip off Britain......again by DFJA · · Score: 3, Insightful


    GBP1.09 is expensive compared with US prices - iTunes at 99c (about GBP0.55, or half this price). This is yet another example of where us British have to pay substantially more for the same product than our American (and often European) counterparts. PCs and components have often been the same number of pounds here as dollars there. It's just not fair.

    Come on, we're fed up of being ripped off by international big businesses. DVDs are another example - and of course region encoding is designed to stop us from importing more cheaply from the US.

    All you British reading this, I urge you to boycott products at these prices - and write to the company concerned explaining your actions and why.

    At least car prices have started to become a bit more reasonable recently, but only compared to the rest of Europe. I believe they are still a lot cheaper in the US.

    DFJA

    --
    43 - For those who require slightly more than the answer to life, the universe and everything.
  19. I gathered that... by mdemeny · · Score: 3, Interesting

    When I saw a spray-painted logo of Napster.co.uk on the sidewalk outside my office this morning.

    Is it just me, or is this an especially despicable form of advertising? Marketers must love it... not having to pay for ad space, while at the same time making it more noticeable because the one place we can expect not to see ads is under our feet...lovely.

    1. Re:I gathered that... by Mr_Dyqik · · Score: 2, Interesting

      So spray paint a big red circle with a line through it on top...

  20. How do these prices help? by SuperMo0 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    If people go and see that Napster UK and Napster Europe are offering terrible prices, what incentive are they going to have to buy online? It will encourage either (a) people buying more real albums or (b) people downloading more music illegally. (A) will be a boon for the recording industry, (B) will be a bane for it, both of them will suck for Napster.

  21. The advertising campaign by pumaman_fly! · · Score: 4, Interesting

    That explains all the chalk grafitti that popped up everywhere in Edinburgh today.

    Pic here:here

  22. Incompatible OS by Cooke · · Score: 2, Funny
    "We're sorry, Napster is not currently compatible with your operating system.

    Napster is currently compatible with Windows XP/2000. Windows 95, Windows NT and the Mac OS are not supported at this time. "

    Dont think ill be using it any time soon :(

  23. When will they learn ? by etherkill · · Score: 2, Insightful

    When will these companies realise that the only reason Napster et al. were popular was because of the ease of access to a free catalogue of music ?

    Who cares about a digital delivery system if you can buy a CD (and something tangible) for less ?

    The majority of people will not care that it is 'easier', 'faster' [insert marketing crap here] etc... they'd rather buy cheap and spend the money saved on a few more beers after work - I know I would.

  24. What's to stop me... by TintinX · · Score: 3, Interesting

    As one option is to pay Napster GBP9.99 for a month's worth of unlimited streams, what's to stop me from ripping them with a system sound recorder and making my own MP3s, Oggs etc.?

    I reckon of Napster's library of 500,000 tracks, I could probably find everything I like (and don't already have) and record it in this way in a month. That's gotta be worth a tenner of anyone's money ;)

    1. Re:What's to stop me... by GothChip · · Score: 3, Informative
      "As one option is to pay Napster GBP9.99 for a month's worth of unlimited streams, what's to stop me from ripping them with a system sound recorder and making my own MP3s, Oggs etc.?"

      That's what I thought until I tried their free "search engine" on the front page. It only gives an overview of the results recommendations, most of which are completely irrelevent to the search performed.

      eg. A search for the band Seize returned the following. Yes, we have multiple results for Seize on Napster.
      Members who like this artist also like: Beenie Man, Bounty Killer, Sizzla, Shabba Ranks, Capleton, Sly & Robbie, UB40, Monica, O-Town, Backstreet Boys

      Not at all similar to a cutting edge electronica breakbeat act.

      Searching for small and exciting acts that have limited availability was part of what made the original Napster so popular. Without a decent and varied catalogue you might as well carry on shopping for cds on-line.

  25. Sigh... by MartinG · · Score: 2, Insightful

    They need to learn that we want to but non DRM protected files. If we can't buy them we will get them for free.

    Back to kazaa etc.... :-(

    --
    -- MartinG To mail me: echo kewyjlcxyzvjfxbqwh | tr bcefhjklqvwxyz .@adgimnoprstu
  26. It's expensive, but... by Spad · · Score: 2, Insightful

    They might do OK on the singles. They may be a rip-off relative to the US prices, but they're still a hell of a lot cheaper than buying singles in the shops. Last time I looked it was 3.99+ for a CD single containing 1 track and a couple of shitty remixed.

    With Play.com selling albums for 9.99, 8.99 and even 5.99, however, I can't see many people paying up for Napster.

  27. Idiot Countries by Puls4r · · Score: 2, Insightful

    WHY do companies continue to put up these artificial barriers? Why not simply call it a US company and have Napster US sell worldwide? Are the laws that screwed up? Isn't that the point of the internet?

  28. Everything is more expensive in GB by ziffduck · · Score: 2, Informative
    I think factor that is missing from this is that by US standards, everything is more expensive in the UK. If you look at it from the point of view of buying power, $1~=1GBP. Of course, this is always related to the strength of the GBP over the USD with a rate which fluctuated between $1.75-$1.95 when I studied abroad this spring in London (only the world's 7th most expensive city [BBC.co.uk] mind you). The part some US readers might fail to understand is that workers in the UK are paid in GBP and I believe that the miminmum wage is 4.50GBP (for people over 22, inlandrevenue.gov.uk) and salaried employees make a comparable amount.

    Another point in regards to compensation is that healthcare (which has its ups and downs) is "free" to all residents. When simply comparing prices or visting the UK, it does feel like a rip off but in perspective its not as bad as its made out to be stateside. Beyond that, I agree that there will be some turbululence with the rest of the continent if the Euroskeptics do not get their way and the Euro is implemented in GB and one could only begin to imagine the potential economic impact.

    Fun Fact: A mile of travel on the tube (London Underground Subway System) is more expensive than a mile of travel on the concorde [tfl.gov.uk]and is the most expensive subway system in the world.