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North American Corporate Privacy Comparison

Scooter[AMMO] writes "The Toronto Star has published an article on a study comparing the way companies protect the privacy of their customers, which is surely a topic of interest to most /.'ers. Choice quote: 'The study, the first to compare the corporate privacy practices of comparable Canadian and U.S. firms, found that Canadian businesses see their privacy practices as an opportunity to improve relations with customers, while their U.S. counterparts viewed privacy measures more as a way of complying with legislation and avoiding civil lawsuits.'"

19 of 275 comments (clear)

  1. Because by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Most American companies are too thick to treat the consumer with respect as a route to profit, rather than squeeze them for all they have.

    It's an attitude thing, OK maybe not geo-specific, but it's prevailant in a profit driven world.

    1. Re:Because by BigBir3d · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I think it is geo-specific. Fuck the customer in every way possible, and make sure they don't find out. That is the US corporate mantra nowadays.

      If you need examples, go car or house shopping.

      And the best part is the employees are finally seeing that it is not just the customer getting fucked, but everyone below the CEO in the company as well. Unfortunately, most are adapting the "that is just the way it is, so I have to cover my own ass" attitude, which of course takes away from their ability to do a good job.

    2. Re:Because by homer_ca · · Score: 3, Insightful

      "Because corporations won't do the right thing, they have to be regulated so that it's unprofitable to do the wrong thing."

      There's another reason behind it. Customers don't punish companies in the marketplace for violating their privacy. Some theories I have are:

      - Customers don't make the connection between companies handing over their private info and the results like junk mail and telemarketing.
      - Some privacy violations have abstract and not concrete results like your data going into some giant government database, e.g. TIA, CAPPS II. So either customers don't know about it, don't care because it doesn't affect their everyday lives, or don't make the connection back to the company that handed over their data.
      - Customer have no choice. We assume everybody will sell your data to telemarketers given the chance.

    3. Re:Because by JWW · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I've just been thinking about this lately with respect to world events.

      Everyone is claiming that the President should have know about the prisoner abuse in Iraq. Well, thats all fine and good, but what does that mean when its applied to you and your job? Does the president/CEO of your company need to know everything thats going on at your company? If you answered yes to that question, then the inverse of that is; do you have any decisionmaking ability whatsoever in your job?

      I find it disturbing how many people in the media and people in general expect full and absolute accountability from top levels of companies and the government, yet fail to realize that this means there will end up being no responsibility or care for the customer at the bottom if those people have no power or influence. Of course in the corporate (and I'm sure government too) world, there is also a lot of higher ups blaming their powerless workers for problems created from the top as well.

      The power and the responsibility need to be at the same level, or things get broken fast.

    4. Re:Because by arkanes · · Score: 3, Insightful
      It's not so much knowing every little detail of what happens - thats obviously impossible. However, good leaders should be (at least) aware of general policy decisions. They should also be accountable, whether or not they had knowledge - they're in charge, and it's thier responsibility to make sure that the people they're in charge of are following policy. If someone is breaking the rules, then they'r responsible (directly or indirectly) for finding that out and for correcting the situation.

      Accountability, after all, is why (supposedly) we pay CEOs all that money. You're the ultimate go-to guy at a corporation and all responsibility and accountability ultimately rests with you. It's the same with the commander-in-chief - it's not just about being able to tell the Army to go kill people, there is responsibility involved as well. After all, you're the voice of the military to the public, and you're expected to have satisfying answers when stuff like this ends up in the public eye. Trying to pass the buck when you're the guy in charge is a sign of weakness and poor leadership, imo.

  2. Hmmm by Plaeroma · · Score: 5, Insightful

    In the United States, "It's all about complying with the law, which may or may not have any bearing to people," said Ponemon. "In Canada, I got the sense that they thought it was just the right thing to do."

    Isn't that exactly why we have laws in the first place, to set up penalties for not doing the 'right thing?'

    1. Re:Hmmm by pwackerly · · Score: 3, Insightful

      In truth, we have laws passed by a congressional body that is heavily influenced by corporate lobbyists and corporate spending, and a congressional body that is slow to change and update exisitng laws, especially in terms of handling technolgy. On this issue, I think consumers on a whole have far more power than Congress to effect business practices, though our choice in patronizing companies or not.

    2. Re:Hmmm by Tackhead · · Score: 5, Insightful
      > > In the United States, "It's all about complying with the law, which may or may not have any bearing to people," said Ponemon. "In Canada, I got the sense that they thought it was just the right thing to do."
      >
      > Isn't that exactly why we have laws in the first place, to set up penalties for not doing the 'right thing?'

      When there's no law, there are market incentives to Do The Right Thing. (If you fail to Do The Right Thing, your customers get pissed off and leave.)

      The instant anything is codified into law - whether it's the Right Thing To Do or not - the penalty for failing to comply with the law means you get sued, go to jail, or both.

      Oddly enough, as soon as this happens, complying with the law suddenly becomes more important than even thinking about what the Right Thing might be, and Doing The Right Thing falls completely off the radar. Funny, that.

      Privacy: It's dead. You have none. Get over it.

    3. Re:Hmmm by amnesty · · Score: 4, Insightful
      Isn't that exactly why we have laws in the first place, to set up penalties for not doing the 'right thing?'


      Not really. Laws are in place to have penalties for doing the wrong thing. That's not the same as 'not doing the right thing'.

      Laws don't make you do the 'right thing'. You could simply just do nothing.
    4. Re:Hmmm by garcia · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Privacy: It's dead. You have none. Get over it.

      and unfortunately that is exactly the reason that privacy is dead. For some reason people have fallen into the trap that "oh well they say we have none so we don't."

      I say tell the companies to fuck off and don't give out any information without requesting, in writing, what they plan on doing with it. Don't give any real information to any company that doesn't need it and certainly don't believe what anyone else tells you about your own privacy.

    5. Re:Hmmm by Cecil · · Score: 4, Insightful

      When there's no law, there are market incentives to Do The Right Thing. (If you fail to Do The Right Thing, your customers get pissed off and leave.)

      This free-marketeer argument gets trotted out anytime there is a endemic failure within a capitalist market, but it's never quite that simple is it?

      Even if it were that simple, the tone of your message says "Oh, whatever, just don't worry about it, stop whining", which is entirely counterproductive.

      For the free market to operate properly, people need to care about companies doing bad things. They need to be passionate about it. Every person with a defeatist attitude like that is one more person the companies who do bad things don't have to worry about anymore, who they can abuse at will. When that group of apathetic people reaches critical mass (I'd argue it already did many, many years ago) look out.

      Still, all of this assumes that free-market capitalism works as well in practice as it does in theory. That is also up for debate.

      Laws are intended to keep the system in check. Neither are perfect, but we make do with what we have.

    6. Re:Hmmm by Martin+Blank · · Score: 3, Insightful

      People do care, but they feel helpless about it. What can one person do?

      Answer: A lot, if they know it can be done.

      However, sometimes change does come from within. Google's mantra of "Do no harm" may well resonate with people once they start opening up a bit. When one can trust a company out of the gate, it becomes a powerful incentive to be a customer of that company than some other company that can't (or won't) show you what it does with your information. I'm hoping that Google will become a runaway success story so that other companies can follow suit.

      --
      You can never go home again... but I guess you can shop there.
  3. Privacy and outsourcing by GeckoFood · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The privacy issue of customers and employees alike takes an interesting spin when you factor in outsourcing. Suddenly, all of your personal data is in someone's database overseas. That's ok, until there's a political problem. When you have a government who doesn't give a rat's butt about privacy laws in other countries, and someone decides to sell your data, you're screwed.

    --
    Be excellent to each other. And... PARTY ON, DUDES!
    1. Re:Privacy and outsourcing by pvt_medic · · Score: 3, Insightful

      this is a huige concern right now in the medical field where there is a trend to outsource your patient records. Transcriptionist in other countries work with your chart and most of your data is stored in a mixture of here and there (really hard to say where anything really is thanks to the internet). But the challenge is if there becomes an issue about privacy or good old HIPPA. Well the hospital subcontracted out this job, to a company who subsequently subcontracted it out, so who is responsible. Not only does american companies only have privacy practices they do everything in their power to make it so they can blame someone else if there is a problem.

      --
      30% Troll, 50% Underrated, 10% Interesting
      Score:5, Troll
  4. People just don't care. by DrEldarion · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Indeed, 61 per cent of surveyed Canadian companies linked "good privacy practices" to customer trust and brand loyalty, compared to only 17 per cent of U.S. companies.

    Maybe it's different in Canada, but there's a reason only 17% of US companies think that - because people around here just don't care! Sure, we complain about spam and junk mail, but how many people do you know (that don't read Slashdot!) actually care about their privacy at all? I'd say less than 10%. Look at how people react to invasions of privacy by the government ("It's for our protection!") and by companies ("Hey, if I use this card who cares if they track my purchases, I saved $2!"). They just don't give a damn!

    Is it possible that Canadian citizens care more about privacy, making it make more sense for Canadian corporations to value privacy more?

  5. Security Issue Too... by MisanthropicProgram · · Score: 4, Insightful

    When your medical/financial records are sent to god knows where for whatever reason, your: Name, DOB, SSN, and address are sent along with it. Everything a crook/terrorist needs to steal your identity and cause havoc.
    There was this study that most identity thefts are an inside job. Mostly from financial and medical firms. Identity Theft

  6. Re:Can't deny it.. by Aneurysm9 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I'm not sure that European companies are any more driven by customer concern than American companies, but the laws with which they must comply have been writing with the consumer in mind much more than the hodgepodge of American privacy laws. The European concept is more akin to a property right that can be non-transferrably licensed whereas the US view is that the corporation has a property right in whatever information they obtain and can do with it what they will.

    --
    There was Cowboy Neal at the wheel of a bus to never-ever land.
  7. Good Article by unixbugs · · Score: 3, Insightful

    This is a classic example of where laws regarding corporations are only abided by because breaking them is illegal, not because they feel compelled to be honest like most hard working people.

    Canada has laws against using aluminum to distribute consumable products like FOOD. Aluminum pans are not used in Canda. This is all due to research done years ago linking the build up of aluminum in the human brain to neurological problems like Alzheimers.

    But then again, Canadians benefit from socialized medecine. It just doesnt make sense for their government to allow companies to distribute aluminum with food because they will only have to pay for the medical bills and medications of those adversly affected in the long run. Or is it because they are nice?

    No laws like that here. Hell you buy enough different kinds of food that comes in aluminum containers to last you a lifetime if thats all you ate. You'd probably be a blithering idiot by the time you were 45, but who cares? Just get someone to stand in line for you at the medicare office, and take up a part time job at McDonalds to pay for the rest of the expenses.

    Something is really really wrong with this picture. In a day and age where corporate rule and well being in "the greatest country in the world" is held is such high regard over the well being of the general populace, its a small wonder that nothing short of apathy sweeps the minds of those who stumble upon someone so informed and opinionated.

    "I cant change this by myself and all I want to do is make a good life for my family and live another day.." is by and large the mantra of working heads of households. But this is under the guise that tomorrow there will be the right to do what you can for your families. Slowly but surely everything from what you eat and how you eat it to where you live and what you see on the internet is under less and less of your own control.

    Welcome to America, take a number and sit the fuck down.

    --
    You are about to give someone a piece of your mind, something which you can ill afford...
  8. American vs. ??? by cdrguru · · Score: 3, Insightful
    I suspect this sort of comparison would be even more interesting if it was done with some other areas of the world. Europe vs. Japan, for instance.

    I do not believe the average American consumer believes any company is going to "do the right thing" without some sort of legal force behind it. And even then, it will be a question of risk vs. benefit.

    So the Canadian company that believes having some extensive privacy statement and following it closely will net them better customer relations is deluding themselves. Similarly, an American company that does not have as extensive a committment to privacy - and perhaps actually does not provide as much "real privacy" to customers is likely operating in an environment where spending more dollars on "improving privacy" is a waste of time and money. In either case, the majority is likely to assume whatever they say, they are lying. What ever they claim to be doing, they are doing whatever they need to do. Period.

    Now, it would be nice if there was some organization that actually investigated privacy practices and reported on them. Unfortunately, what we have is membership-based organizations where you pay a fee and get to put a logo on your web page. Does this come with any follow through, education, training or publicity? No. You have a logo on your web page. This pretty much tells the consumer nothing but it does look nice.