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Microsoft, Sony Announce iPod Competitors
Pfhreak writes "According to the Denver Post -- Las Vegas section, a little over halfway down the page -- Microsoft will begin selling a $50 music player that will 'look and feel as good as the iPod' later this year. Yusuf Mehdi, a Microsoft VP, is quoted as saying that the player will give customers more choices than Apple."
In related news, Tetsugaku-San writes "The Register has the scoop on Sony's new portable audio/visual playback device. Impressively it plays MPEG2, MPEG4, BMP, GIF, PNG, TIFF and MP3 (finally they got the message Apple was gonna whoop em!) straight out of the box. Not as good battery life as I'd like to see, but real world tests remain to be seen."
The Sony device will be quite good, and will compare favorably to the iPod. The Microsoft device will be a POS, but will sell like hotcakes despite that, and in a few years we'll have fanboys and pundits gushing about how Bill Gates "innovated" the personal MP3 player.
The correlation between ignorance of statistics and using "correlation is not causation" as an argument is close to 1.
Well, was bound to happen some day. Hard drive is probably the most expensive part of the hardware, and one can assume Microsoft already has software development covered.
However, even Dell's digital jukeboxes start at $200, and beating Dell pricewise is something out of ordinary (possible, but few have done it).
That Sony one looks really nice, and it does everything I need except one... I need OGG Vorbis support, as my entire audio library is on my server in Q6 encoded files. :)
So, does anyone know of another similar player, that does both MPEG4 (or compatible, like XVid) and OGG Vorbis?
-- sudo.ca
It looks and feels just like an iPod! (of course, they don't mention it working, sheesh).
I can just see MS coming out with something the size of an ipod, but with a tiny flash memory instead of a hard drive. And if MS markets it hard enough and makes it ubiquitous enough, the uninformed consumers will just slurp it up and think they're getting a huge bargin (despite there having been flash players that cheap for a long time).
"The worst tyrannies were the ones where a governance required its own logic on every embedded node." - Vernor Vinge
Microsoft announcement of products before they are available are always 120% of the truth.
Their inability to get the gist of things they copy except for the superfical (i.e., I'm sure the MP3 Player will be a small white box) reminds me of the kid in school looking over my shoulder during a math test... copying all my answers onto his paper including my answer for the question "Name:"
While developing a competitive audio portable against the iPod certainly is a possible feat, there's more to the iPod's success than just the actual player. What about ease of file-transfers and syncing? The iPod killer has more to beat than just the iPod. It'll have to beat the iPod-Winamp combination.
While yes, existing portables have their own merits, very few of them are supported by an application like Winamp that can flawlessly sync my audio files (and ratings and playcounts) from my media folders to my iPod, or reverse-syncs my iPod so that my media folders match up with what's on my iPod. It'll have to beat Winamp's intuitive artist/album views, ipod-media library integration, mp3 transcoding, and other features...
Winamp and the iPod "just work."
Well, for $300 you can get 15Gb of storage on the low-end iPod. For $500 you can get $40Gb of storage on the high-end iPod.
The iPod/iTunes combo has become the core of my audio system. I don't have a boom box or home stereo system. I hook my iPod into my stereo TV when I want to listen to tunes downstairs. When I want to listen to tunes upstairs, I listen to the tunes through my computer's speakers. When I'm driving in the car, I plug in my tape deck adapter and go.
When I go for a run or go to work out, I take my iPod and have all of my tunes with me. So in that sense it's not just "a Walkman that doesn't need CDs or tapes." A CD Walkman is fine if I just want to listen to whatever CDs I happen to have with me at the time. But when I'm mobile, the last thing I want to do is decide which tunes I think I'll want to listen to at some point in the future. I want the whole range of my music library available.
I'm not rich. Not even close. I like my music a lot, but I'm not the music freak I was when I was in my teens. All the same, the iPod has really changed my listening habits quite a bit. It allows me to listen to a broader range of my own music than I otherwise would, lets me listen to music pretty much anywhere, and eliminates the need to haul around discs or tapes wherever I go.
Prices will doubtless drop on these devices as they become commoditized. Someday they'll drop to a price that will be acceptable to you. In the mean time, the investment in my iPod has more than justified the cost several times over for me (and for my non-technophile wife, who is an iPod addict as well).
Read the EFF's Fair Use FAQ
I found this story wirtten on May 5, 2004 which states "ON THE VERGE. Still, if the iPod were a stock, I'd dump my shares. It's hard to imagine Apple maintaining its dominant position in digital music. Jobs had actually predicted 100 million in iTMS song sales in the first year, and he missed by a wide mark. Apple managed to turn in only a 10% quarter-over-quarter increase in iPod sales last quarter, implying the market is slowing. And several top executives dumped millions of their own Apple shares in late April, the first major sale by insiders in years" The article goes on to say that Apple w\should spin off iPod now and pocket the cash while the gettings is good.
Note: this has been posted by r.future (a person who spends way to much time on the internet!)
I'm a 3rd year student at Harvard Law, and as part of my business law course work, we have to put together a case against a corporation. I am a keen FSF and GNU/Linux advocate, so I started an investigation into the iPod, hoping to break their case against playfair.
We're all aware that Apple uses BSD licensed code extensively in their Mac OSX operating system. What we don't know is that the file system that the iPod uses is UFS, a file system that Linux can read. How did I discover this? I removed the hard drive out of my iPod, hooked it up to my IDE controller, and typed
It is clear that the iPod is using a Linux file system. My question is this:
I guess the only way to tell is to get the code out of the firmware, but that is a bit beyond my realm of expertise.
Does anybody care to pull apart their iPod and investigate this for me? If so, please respond with your findings to this comment and I'll build it into my report.
Thanks in advance
However, even Dell's digital jukeboxes start at $200, and beating Dell pricewise is something out of ordinary (possible, but few have done it).
I would suspect that with a $50 pricetag, Micro$oft is losing some amount of money per unit. They want to make the money on the music sales. Like razors or cameras - make money on the blades/film.
MS is only going to use a hardware media player to push a wide-scale adoption of Windows Media. MS is not going to make a dime off of their MediaPlayer. They'll take a giant loss selling a $50 Media Player (even a good tiny flash player costs $100).
MS is going to shoot for long term profits from WM licenses. They are going to try to squish competition, and after that is done, they're going to raise licensing rates... which will make music more expensive.
I'm all for competition. However MS's concept of "competition" is the exact same as Walmart's. Slash prices, kill competitors, raise rates, and lower product/service quality.
I'm sure Apple knew this was going to happen. These are typical Microsoft actions. It'll be interesting to see how they're going to innovate their way out of this predicament... they certainly don't have the money to counteract stuff like this.
"Things are more moderner than before- bigger, and yet smaller- it's computers-- San Dimas High School football RULES!"
Microsoft will begin selling a $50 music player that will 'look and feel as good as the iPod' later this year.
... That Sony player does look shweet! ;)
...
Well thats great, but id personally prefer a player that sounds as good, and performs as well as the iPod rather than one that "looks and feels" like one. With a 50quid price tag it will either be horrendously locked in (so that they can make money back from the songs) or the capacity will be so small that it becomes inconvient for people with large collections.
And i'd be very surprised if the "Gives more choice to consumers" part means anything more than WMA support, I would be prepared to place money on the fact that flac and ogg support are not included in that "more choice" line up...
However
nick
Electronic Music Made Using Linux http://soundcloud.com/polyp
Like I said. I've got maybe twenty CD. Every ogg and mp3 I own fits on two CD that I play with the rio MP3 CD player I bought 2 years ago for $60.
The only complaint I have with it is battery life sucks. Its too big to fit in my shirt pocket and once every 5 days or so I have to swap out the CD. and the navigation is archaic, which isn't much of a probaly because I've basically memeorized the playlists.
If Apple make a 1GB iPod mini and sells it for $100. I'd snatch it up. Other than that I'll wait.
My days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle...
"Whatever happened to outdoing your competitors?
Way to go MS. Aim low."
Oh right. Here's what the reverse would be:
"Um, M$, this is nothing like the elegance of the iPod. Way to go MS, blow it again."
I don't think it will have a similar capacity. I wouldn't even bet on it being a microsoft product, as that last bastion of journalistic integrity, as the apple turns has a linked story that has a bit more to chew on (but not much more) than the denver post article.
The quote about the $50 players was left out, but it does still contain the 'look and feel' quote, and he is obviously referring to third-party players that will be launched alongside a new microsoft music download service.
What kind of hard drive could a manufacturer possibly put in a player for less than $50 - none, maybe flash 128/256 - but that's already on the market, and has been for some time. Anyway, I choose to believe this to be just more Microsoft FUD until I see such a $50 iPod killer.
um since when have they aimed high? We are talking about the same company that stole DOS, backcoded the Mac OS, released its own uncompatable version of Java... should I keep going?
"Slashdot, where telling the truth is overrated but lying is insightful."
Or even better, be active: Hop over to iPod Linux and join the hackers there - for OGG support (& more!) on the iPod. 'Tis beautiful, this open-source thing of ours *sniff*.
668.5
Operator: And our next question we'll take is from Arik Hesseldahl with Forbes.com.
Arik Hesseldahl: Hi, Steve. Always concerned about -- not concerned, I guess, but wondering -- one of the previous questions was about revenue. I'm wondering if iTunes has reached the break even point yet.
Steve Jobs: Yes. The iTunes music store had a small profit this past quarter.
Arik Hesseldahl: Had a small profit. OK. Any interest whatsoever, since in the open source OGG Vorbis format?
Steve Jobs: We're certainly not getting any requests from customers for it.
Arik Hesseldahl: OK.
Source: Conference call, April 29, 2004.
There's a rumor that Xbox Next (Xbox 2 as the name suggests) will use a removable iPod like device as its harddrive. The main storage for save games and the like will be internal flash memory. It would be pretty cool to be able to download songs using whatever iTune clone MS will have all on a console.
Apple really, really needs-- not now, but sometime before the Microsoft "We can set rediculously low prices becuase we don't care if we make a profit on anything except Windows and Office Music Player" hits-- aggressively start licensing the FairPlay DRM and some kind of fancy "iTunes Music Store Compatibility" logo to other music player creators. I think if they do not attempt to do this they are in big trouble.
Microsoft has been really, really harping on this "choice" thing, by which they mean "iTMS purchases can only be played on the iPod". Meanwhile they're trying to push music player carriers to support WMA. At the moment WMA is still just an also-ran in this space but if this keeps happening that could change. Apple needs to get FairPlay support into everyone's hands in order to make AAC the new standard so that WMA doesn't grab that spot...
Irritable, left-wing and possibly humorous bumper stickers and t-shirts
Crossplatform games often look better on Xbox, but very seldom play better, often I think the PS2 version plays best. It probably comes down to what you are used to, but I find the PS2 version controls better in almost every case. Even after reducing the Xbox controller to a reasonable size it is still the worst designed of the current generation console controllers.
My opinion of console game quality in general is slipping, I own all three current generation consoles, yet mostly purchase GBA and PC games.
[Set Cain on fire and steal his lute.]
I'd certainly like portable video WITHOUT THE SCREEN! Why can't I just get a good quality composite video, or even high definition, signal out.
Then I can walk over to a mates place, plug it in and watch a movie. Take it to grandma's, plug it in, and show her what the kids did on the weekend.
Maybe even plug it in someplace and *record* some video. That, however, would have mixed apeal I feel. It's probably much better to handle all the video side on a PC and focus on providing intuitive playback, great battery life and smaller size on the portable unit.
That would be awesome.
PS: It would probably still have a screen, just a simple monochrome number for selecting tracks and video clips.
I don't get what you're saying. If MS does indeed produce a player that only costs $50 and holds as many songs then they will indeed put Apple in a bad position. Yes, people like the IPOD and are willing to pay more for it but not $250 more. This is assuming that the player MS is touting is comparable in size and function.
--HC,
So I'm jump'n up and down screaming show me the money.
The primary reason that competitors can claim similar features cheaper is that their players are a bit larger, thus able to use cheaper hard drives. The smaller form factor of the ipod and the hard drive inside does add value.
Although the small size of the iPod does add value, it's not the hard drive which makes the difference. Many 10Gb+ players use the same 1.8" hard drives as the iPod. That includes the iRiver iHP line, the Philips HDD1?0 line, the RCA Lyra line, the Samsung YH-9?0 line, the Dell DJ, and the Rio Karma. I does not include the Creative Nomad line, the Pogo Ripdrive line, and probably not the Archos or Neuros products. The fact that none of the players with 1.8" drives is smaller (except possibly the upcoming Samsung YH-920) is due to good engineering on Apple's part. And possibly the small battery (which is why "form" shouldn't be seens as a single item -- the iRiver players win on price and function while being only a tiny bit bigger than the iPod, but they have much longer battery life).
Likewise, someone already pointed out that the Muvo2 uses a 1" drive similar to that in the iPod mini. So will the upcoming Samsung YH-820, if I recall correctly.