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Ion Storm Austin Studio Under 'Transition'?

Posted by simoniker on from the transitioning-into-the-sea dept.

madhatter256 writes "According to Shacknews, around 20-25 more employees, allegedly including noted designer Warren Spector, have left the Eidos-owned Ion Storm studio in Austin." There's an official Eidos response at GameSpot, where a spokesperson "denied Spector had exited the organization", but IGN has further official Eidos reports confirming "Both Ion games have been completed and those who were hires specifically for those titles are now finished", and noting that Spector himself, though he could theoretically be exiting by other means, "certainly has not been laid off." This news comes in the context of earlier personnel turmoil, Thief III's fairly well-received release (there's now a playable PC demo available), and a mixed reception for Deus Ex: Invisible War.

32 comments

  1. Layoffs... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

    From the article: "...normal staff reduction associated with the completion of the pair of game projects that were underway at ION..."

    Fuck you. No industry should have "normal staff reductions". That's complete bullshit, and I will openly boycott any company that ditches it's development teams as expendable. Even a dev team that makes a shitty game doesn't deserve that. Ion Storm and Eidos can kiss my fucking ass.

    1. Re:Layoffs... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative
      No industry should have "normal staff reductions". That's complete bullshit, and I will openly boycott any company that ditches it's development teams as expendable.

      All employees are expendable except government civil servants. You are animals to be used and discarded when they're finished with you.

    2. Re:Layoffs... by aramith · · Score: 1

      Sadly it happens all too often nowadays. "Oh, your project is done, and you still want to get paid? Bye bye" The good people get fed up and leave the industry, and we end up with crap programs. Maybe more companies should do what the WB is thinking of (see here ).

    3. Re:Layoffs... by Mike+Hawk · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Wow, you win the award for most insane post on the internet today.

      Well, I hoped you liked playing games because its a thing of the past for you if you are boycotting companies that lay people off when a project is done because thats all of them. On second thought, I'm sure you'll still find a way to play the games without paying because you seem like such an upstanding citizen.

      Is it unclear to anyone why this happens? Company needs to accomplish X. People are hired to accomplish X. X gets accomplished. People hired to accomplish X need to be reallocated. If there is no Y, people are reduced. Its the way the industry works. Not just video games, entertainment as a whole. You think Jerry Seinfeld is still sitting around making episodes of his show? No, the project ended. Yes it sucks, but everyone involved knows the deal before they start. I find E3 uncomfortable because I see so many people who used to work here working for other companies. It hurts, but thats how it goes.

      Look at the credits for any game and I'd wager from 30-50% of the names there are contract workers or outright temps. Not to mention what can happen when an independent developer is poorly managed. *shudder* You should consider yourself a temp every day you go to work, even if you are the CEO. Its just the way the game of games is played.

    4. Re:Layoffs... by black+mariah · · Score: 1

      Hey, moron, since you know DICK about the games industry... ANY industry, actually, I'll explain it to you. Not every game development team stays together forever. In fact, most change from game to game. You'll have a core team of developers (lead programmers and artists, producers, level designers, etc.) that move from one project to another, but most everyone else is hired on a TEMPORARY BASIS for the duration of the project development. They know this up front, and they accept it. It is a standard practice. If you're going to boycott everyone that does that, you'll never play a commercially developed game again.

      --
      'Standards' in computing only impress those who are impressed by things like 'standards'.
    5. Re:Layoffs... by black+mariah · · Score: 4, Informative
      Look at the credits for any game and I'd wager from 30-50% of the names there are contract workers or outright temps.
      That right there is all that needs to be said. These people are hired with the knowledge that when the project is over, their employment WILL BE TERMINATED. They are on a contract or temp basis. I know quite a few game artists. Most of them are run through revolving doors like crazy. One guy I know worked for three different companies on three different projects in one year. One would get done with whatever he was doing, so he had to move on. It's an accepted thing with videogame artists/programmers/designers/producers that for the first few years of their career they WILL be jumping from company to company.
      --
      'Standards' in computing only impress those who are impressed by things like 'standards'.
    6. Re:Layoffs... by AltaMannen · · Score: 1

      It doesn't happen at all developers, but some make it part of their business, some developers mention it during the job interview and some developers mention it during the release party. Usually you get the idea early enough that you can jump ship ahead of termination, making it their headache instead of your own, and most game programmers are not contractors but around 50% of artists I know are. Usually layoffs are part of cost savings from above, and Eidos really need some of those these days, so it would not surprise me if there were layoffs from other Eidos studios as soon as their projects are done.

    7. Re:Layoffs... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Just because it's an accepted business practice doesn't make it right.

    8. Re:Layoffs... by black+mariah · · Score: 1

      You are STILL missing the point. It's called contract work, moron. This is like saying it's not right to hire an architect to design your building, then firing him when it's done. No, it's not wrong. They work on a contract basis and have absolutely no guarantees of future employment. Most game artists have contracts for the life of a project, after that they're on their own.

      --
      'Standards' in computing only impress those who are impressed by things like 'standards'.
    9. Re:Layoffs... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Posting anonymously to protect my employer (though they are small).

      We hire people when we have a big job. Up to a dozen of them, we pay them hourly and then a week or a month or 4 months later we lay them all off. We would not be in business if we could not do that. We add to the local economy by giving people a job for the period of time. It in no way leaves them worse off then when they started. There is a permanant staff of 1.5 people (I am not full time permanant). Is the better solution to hire 12 full time employees and go under?

      Why is developement any different. It is rediculous for a company with such a fluctuating workload to keep people around all the time. If the games are good they will have money very soon and be able to hire people again.

    10. Re:Layoffs... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Original Poster here:
      Yeah, you could see every job as "temp". Of course! Life is temp. But when people cut your life short, especially without warning, it's called "murder". Apply that counter-analogy however you chose.

      There are many developers who do not follow this trend. The ones that do only create bad blood between ex-employees and owners, gain little respect and trust in the industry. I am an industry artist (director), but I will never work for Ion Storm or Eidos, or any other studio that I ever catch wind of treating their employees like this. I will also never treat anyone like this who holds a position under me.

      What's really happening here is that the industry leaders want you to *think* that's the way it works, but it does not nearly as much as you think. Just because you believe that's the way things go means: 1) you are not an idealist and will settle for whatever scraps you're handed, and 2) you have been successfully blinded by your masters.

      Maybe I sound like a complete cock, but it's the mind set that you carry that will cause many other talented individuals to have to put up with this bullshit that much more.

    11. Re:Layoffs... by SphericalCrusher · · Score: 1

      Well, Ion Storm hasn't always been on top of things, heh. The founder of it (John Romeo), as you may or not know, left after a few years.

      Masters of Doom. Very interesting read indeed.

      --
      "Instant gratification takes too long." - Carrie Fisher
    12. Re:Layoffs... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Programmers are a useable resource, like pig iron or oil. From the industry point of view there is no significant difference from programmer to programmer, they are just a warm body that needs to do a job.

    13. Re:Layoffs... by johannesg · · Score: 3, Insightful

      This is why the Japanese games are so much better. They keep their teams apart, and thus keep their knowledge and experience in the company instead of taking it out with the trash after every project.

    14. Re:Layoffs... by one4nine4two · · Score: 1

      There's two separate Ion Storm development studios. Well, there were anyway. Romero headed the crappy Dallas studio while Spector is/was at the Austin studio, which actually made some awesome games. They're more or less separate entities.

    15. Re:Layoffs... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How much experience with the game industry do you actually have? Now, now, reading shacknews doesn't count.

    16. Re:Layoffs... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Some awesome games, as in one? Or were there others before Deus Ex?

    17. Re:Layoffs... by black+mariah · · Score: 1

      Actual personal employment, zero. All of my information comes from friends that have worked in the industry for several years.

      --
      'Standards' in computing only impress those who are impressed by things like 'standards'.
    18. Re:Layoffs... by 17028 · · Score: 1

      I'm pretty sure it said lay offs, not expiration of contracts. You don't fire an architect after the project is done, because the contract is already up.

    19. Re:Layoffs... by black+mariah · · Score: 1

      The contracts expire when the company says they expire. It could be called layoffs if you so chose. As for the architect thing, I clearly stated "They work on a contract basis and have absolutely no guarantees of future employment".

      --
      'Standards' in computing only impress those who are impressed by things like 'standards'.
    20. Re:Layoffs... by Talith · · Score: 1
      Personally, I would say ignore those n00bs below dissing you for your comment, coz you are right in ur attitude, albeit an impossible one to follow if you are a real gamer.



      Us older gamers can remember when games were made by developers because, well, they liked playing games, and wanted to make good games - their hearts and souls went into it, and people were constantly awed by the stories and gameplay.



      Warren Spector has always struck me as this kind of person, as is Peter Molyneux and Ian Livingstone (who I had the pleasure of working with very closely at one time).



      Of course, Warren became a marketable item. It was ok when everyone was looking for the next best thing from John Romero, and Warren was very much in the shadows, creeping in with the Thief series and System Shock, but with the surprise hit of Deus Ex (and the failure of Daikatana), all of a sudden, Warren was da man!



      But, you see, with that kind of attention, the publishers (Eidos, in this case, but they all do it) suddenly want to make sure the next game is a definite hit, and thus stick their oar in. While he was happily working in the shadows, noone really took much notice what he was doing, so he had a lot longer leash, but no longer, and thus, you have the ruination of another potentially great game (DX2).



      As for most of the development being temps and contractors... what do they care? They have no real cause to care whether the game does well or not... they get paid either way.



      Thus, those who once lived for games, pouring their heart and soul into their projects, are now gone, and you are left with mindless automatons doing the work, and then you all moan coz the games are boring or unoriginal.



      Until we, as consumers, stand up and say 'no, we're not buying your games', the situation will become worse. And at the moment, while mass-market is still quite strong, that is unlikely to make much difference, but that is waining too - it's just a matter of time (and again, the signs are there)



      It's too late, imho - any real gamers are now enmeshed in MMORPG's or going back to older games or even pen & paper RPG's, because at least you have control over what is going on. The core-market is gone, and no market can live without it's heart.



      Strangely, I predicted this over 3 yrs ago, but noone listened then and I doubt anyone listens now, but the signs are there - I'm just waiting for the big crash, when I can happily go back to being 'that weird guy in the corner that plays games'. At least then there may be someone with the balls to make something interesting...

      --
      If a man speaks in a forest, and there is no woman to hear him, is he still wrong?
  2. No concern... by WinnipegDragon · · Score: 5, Funny
    I have no doubt that Warren will land on his feet. He has a following akin to Peter Molyenieux, although DX2 might have jeopardized that a bit.

    A Haiku for him:

    Weep not for Spector,

    DX2 sucked anyhow,

    Here's to better days!

  3. Thief III is great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I've been playing it for about the last 24 hours non stop. It's pretty much exactly what I would have wanted, minus the loading zones in the city sections (which still aren't bad).

    I hope everyone at ION lands on their feet, and I also really hope that Eidos will actually shell out the incredibly minor amount of money that would be required to get the Editor in a releaseable state (though that's looking less likely).

    1. Re:Thief III is great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Me too. Could have used a little more polish in some areas (better load/save menu, I'd like at least a screenshot of the area as saved, and the ability to name saves). Also some kind of quest log for all the books and documents you _can't_ take with you wouldn't be amiss (In the church there's a document detailing some books -- two of them are in the church, two of them aren't. I had to write down their locations on paper since the game wouldn't store it anywhere). I'm also wondering where screenshots end up, I get disc activity on print-screen, but I can't see the files anywhere.

      I wouldn't mind an option for "display your current location on the map" -- I'm fairly decent at finding my way, "turning" a map in my head and all that, but it's too much effort and not very fun to have to do it.

      Love the lock-picking. After a while you start recognizing locks and can pick them very quickly. "Left, Left, Right, Left. "

      So far I haven't really used the environment and items to the full potental, I saw a tip about dropping heavy items in the head of people to knock them out...

      Nothing says "SURPISE!" as a proximity mine in the dark.

  4. Sad. by aramith · · Score: 0

    Sad that a studio with such good titles is leaving. RIP Ion Storm Austin.

  5. Raises a lot of questions for me by thirty2bit · · Score: 1

    It makes me wonder whether the workplace was so volatile that they couldn't wait to split (maybe nobody could get along with Warren, ergo Randy Smith's departure), or whether everybody was just a 'hired gun' for the the two projects.

    On the hired gun theory, maybe future Ion Storm projects will be from 'Ion Storm India'.

    It also leaves me wondering if there is a snowball's chance in hell for a Thief 4 title, or even whether Thief: Deadly Shadows will have any of it's bugs addressed.

    1. Re:Raises a lot of questions for me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It really doesn't have many. I've been playing it a lot (the above AC is me), and I haven't had any crash or gameplay bugs; once or twice the lip syncing didn't start with a conversation, and with Catalyst 4.5 drivers there are problems, but really, nothing major.

    2. Re:Raises a lot of questions for me by Doctor+Cat · · Score: 3, Interesting
      I worked with Warren back in the Origin days, on Ultima 6. He's a great guy and fun to work with, I can't buy any "nobody could get along with Warren" theory. The guys at Looking Glass insisted on having him as their producer for every project they did for Origin (Underworld, Underworld 2, and System Shock), he got along great with them too.

      I was just talking to one of the Ion Storm programmers a couple weeks ago (he lives across the street from me), and he was happy to be working there, didn't mention any problems or turmoil. Whatever changes are being made have almost certainly been decided upon by Eidos, that's the way these things go. Most game developers, when they get a steady, paying job, will try to stick with it until they don't have the option to do so any more. There are the highly publicized exceptions, of well known teams with a recent big hit under their belt splitting off to do something new, but those are pretty rare compared to the vast majority of folks just trying to stay employed and keep making games.

      --

      Furcadia - A free online game with user created content, DragonSpeak scripting, & more.

  6. Robotic Frogs by spektricide · · Score: 1

    Why do I keep having flashbacks of John Romero and robotic frogs. I though I was going to be his "bitch"

  7. ION Storm is no more by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The story's been updated. The name is changing and it will be a PS2 exclusive dev house - no more Xbox or PC projects.

    Looks to me like this was a resignation of opportunity, one hair's breadth away from a firing. This is probably due to DX:IW flopping hard in both console and PC markets due to its total lack of appeal to both.

  8. Blame it on the market by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    it will be a PS2 exclusive dev house

    So someone at the top figured, "Oh, well, if Deus Ex and Thief aren't doing well on the Xbox, it must be the Xbox market." It can't be because the games weren't quality, it has to be the market's fault, right? Eidos just shot themselves in the foot with this; it was one of their halfway decent dev houses. Have fun dying Eidos!

    1. Re:Blame it on the market by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Eidos has been on the Wrong Track since tomb raider hit it big. But much like Interplay they kept surviving on the backs of the clued devs they employed despite an endless parade of bad decisions. And just like Interplay, the resulting financial success has empowered the suits and given them enough rope to hang the company with as they lay off all the talented devs and merge existing groups to slightly increase profit margins in the short term.

      "Eidos" has already become the next "Atari" or "Sierra," existing as nothing more than a brand name and set of trade marks bartered between conglomerates, a label to add to products after-the-fact for marketing purposes.

      I feel sorry for Spector. Hope he gets a chance to exercise his abilities elsewhere, without short-sighted automotons tying his hands at every opportunity.