Wireless Sensors Monitor Glacier Behavior

Roland Piquepaille writes "In a world premiere, an interdisciplinary team of the University of Southampton, GlacsWeb, has deployed a network of wireless sensors inside a Norwegian glacier to record its behavior. This news release, "Sensor Technology Comes in from the Cold" says that the sensor probes, housed in 'electronic pebbles,' are buried 60 meters under the surface of the glacier. And they transmit wirelessly their observations about temperature, pressure or ice movement to a base station located on the surface, which relays the readings to a server in the UK by mobile phone. The researchers think that similar sensor webs will soon be deployed around the world to watch what is changing in our environment. You'll find more details and pictures in this overview."

Comments

Heh.

[Fjornir]

This is great. Now I don't need to worry about being run over by a speeding glacier next time the ice age comes around.

Re:Heh.

[Dr Caleb]

Now I don't need to worry about being run over by a speeding glacier next time the ice age comes around.

Let me guess, you're one of the guys writing Duke Nukem Forever . . .

Re:Is it just me?

[PatrickThomson]

Ahem! The global warming --> ice age link was about the only good science in it.

Re:Is it just me?

[(Maly)]

Speaking of that movie. I saw it on the weekend, and I and my friends had a nice long discussion about the difference between improbable and impossible. This movie skirts that line, to say the least.

NASA's web site has a short article called Sudden Climate Change which briefly discusses the plausibility of that movie's scenario. It goes to great lengths to avoid naming the movie but it deals with the possibility of sudden climate change (prossibly to avoid legal trouble?).

An interesting read for anyone wondering about it. Not very long though. The conclusion is essentially to not believe everything you see in the movies.

Re:Is it just me?

[detritus`]

Actually the concept of a large influx of cold water into the ocean altering the major currents is quite possible, at least in theory, but as a theory it must as always be taken with a grain of salt. (who's to say that such current changes dont occur every couple thousand years for various reasons? we just dont have enough data) But its no reason to start moving to the higher places on Earth anytime soon.

New annoying cellphone calls

[panurge]

Yeah, I'm in the glacier. Looks like we're sliding about three centimetres a year. I guess I might be late for the meeting...sorry, you're breaking up. That's better. Look, if I give you the readings could you turn them into a quick Powerpoint?

Re:New annoying cellphone calls

[B3ryllium]

*ahem*

*brr*

Can you hear me now? Good.

Don't believe what you read!!!

[nev4]

It's all BS it's part of an extension to the Patriot Act that allows them to wiretap eskimos. They don't care about the glacier's, they are trying to spy on eskimoan extremists.

Re:Don't believe what you read!!!

[autiger]

But of course. It's a well-known fact that the glacier is just a weapon of the Iceberg Liberation Front (ILF) used to target capitalist shipping fleets.

Re:Don't believe what you read!!!

[stratjakt]

I was waiting for a stupid comment about the glaciers' "constitutional right to privacy".

Yours will do, though.

radio link

[j1m 5n0w]

I'm surprised they got a radio link to work through 60m of ice. They're apparently using 1.8 ghz radios.

-jim

Re:radio link

[alriddoch]

The presentation you linked is a bit old, and I'm not sure where the 1.8 ghz figure comes from.

I am one of the field researchers on this project, and radio propagation through the ice has been one of the major difficulties. Initial work based on 868MHz has had limited success, so the followup work will use 433MHz with a backup low bandwidth 50kHz link.

Initial tests done last October with 433MHz indicated that we should be able get the range we need. The key is that ice has very different radio properties from water. It is much less conductive. This is countered by the problem that for much of the year there is a lot of water inside and on the gacier.

Re:Mars

[Technonotice_Dom]

I have a hard enough time getting mobile phone coverage where I am anyway, let alone Mars...

Standards?

[bigattichouse]

Are there any standard protocols for data transmission from these things (I mean above the wireless/transport layer)? just curious.

Re:Standards?

[Anonymous Coward]

Most sensor network research groups are developing their own protocols since TCP/IP and other standard protocols are perceived to be too heavy-weight, and usually do not match the specialized application conditions in the wireless network. For instance, a wireless sensor in most cases do not need a unique identity such as an IP address - it is the sensor data that is important, not the individual sensor devices. There is a very commonly used protocol called "Directed Diffusion" (link) that is used to gather sensor data from a wireless network. This protocol runs directly on top of the physical link layer, without any protocol layers beneath it.

That said, there are people working on bringing the TCP/IP protocols to wireless sensor networks (a project at SICS in Sweden) but it hasn't reached wide-spread usage yet.

Carrier

[SeaFox]

What mobile phone carrier has towers in that region? Perhaps they meant satellite phone instead?

Also, what kind of battery life do transmitters packed in ice get?

Re:Carrier

[arcade]

Without exact knowledge, I would think most norwegian mobile phone carriers has towers in that regions - just as most of the rest of norway is covered by the mobile phone carriers.

We're talking about norway here, not the uS. ;-) Norawy has _very_ good mobile phone coverage.

(NB: I'm a norwegian).

Re:Carrier

[alriddoch]

There is very good mobile phone coverage on the glacier, as there are antennas on the roof of a hotel in the valley below. This combined with excellent accessibility are the reasons this glacier was chosen for the study.

The hardware has to be very carefully designed to get the batteries to last. We believe that we can get up to a year worth of operation from a probe. I don't have the details of the batteries to hand, but this is the aproximate time period, taking into account the reduced performance due to the cold.

icecap measuring

[DoctorDeath]

Careful measurements of the glaciers and polar ice caps is one of the most important types of research done at the polar research labs. The figures are used for calculations of global warming, polution, and tidal currents among other things. This new method means less people having to endure the extreme cold and horrible weather in order to achieve the much valued information. Currently sensors are placed on top of the ice to measure movement and laser measurement is done to determine shrinkage.

Re:Is it just me?

[WormholeFiend]

I saw the movie, but I was a little disappointed... I expected more CGI devastation though!

The plot was alright IMO, considering it's not exactly scientifically accurate.

I thought that the vice-president character was so Dick-Cheney-like that it was scary.

Re:Is it just me?

[RayBender]

who's to say that such current changes dont occur every couple thousand years for various reasons? we just dont have enough data

Well, let's be careful here. We DO have data from ice cores, sediment beds, tree rings and other similar sources that indicate when these changes in ocean circulation have occurred. In the past, these events have happened at the end of Ice Ages, when large amounts of meltwater have entered the oceans . They don't "just happen" for various reasons; there are pretty well-defined condistions for when the circulation changes.

But its no reason to start moving to the higher places on Earth anytime soon.

If the Gulf Stream shuts down you'll want to move SOUTH, not UP. At least if you live in Europe.

I haven't seen the movie, so I have no idea how badly they butchered the science. But I am concerned that "skeptics" are using this crappy movie as an excuse to belittle the very valid science that is being done in this area....

Actually I'm glad ...

[SuperDuG]

... Seeing as the icebergs could fall into the ocean, and then drift out to warmer sea, and then cause the ocean to desalinate.

Thus then affecting the ocean current and temperatures of said currents. Then cause the climate to abruptly change.

Then when you think it couldnt get any worse, super storms would emerge and cause hurricanes to form over land. The hurricanes would have such a strong force that they'd (bear with me here) ...

That they'd cause the STRATOSPHERE to come to the surface of the earth. Causing instantaneous freezign of everything in the eye of said land based hurricanes.

As if that wasn't bad enough I predict this would cause 3/4 of the north america, europe and asia's populations to be killed. Thus causing the rest of the populations to move to mexico.

But alas, this can all be prevented if we stop burning fossil fuels, hug a tree, and act like RMS.

Also note, in the event a land based hurricane does bring the STRATOSPHERE down to the earths surface immediately find the nearest library or wendy's and stay there. If you have a tent, be sure to set the tent up in the kitchen of wendy's.

You know what, this whole plot seems like the story for a HORRIBLE movie, I better write it down and call 20th century fox.

Political Monitor

[greyhoundofdeath]

Great now they have a tool to measure progress in Congress.

wireless through ice?

[pedantic bore]

It doesn't mention that they're using anything special to do the wireless, but IIRC 60M of ice (or water) will defeat a fairly powerful radio signal. Anyone know if (a) I'm simply wrong, or (b) they're using something special? If the latter, how is it done and how well would it penetrate say 60M of rock?

Re:Is it just me?

[syphax]

For more info, start with this paper by Wallace Broecker. One good quote:

The fact that we are unable to provide satisfactory estimates of the probability that a conveyor shutdown will occur or of its consequences is certainly reason to be extremely prudent with regard to CO2 emissions. The record of events that transpired during the last glacial period sends us the clear warning that by adding greenhouse gases to the atmosphere, we are poking an angry beast (Fig. 5).

Here's another good site.

Piquepaille, Call it what it is: BLOG / SPAM

[Anonymous Coward]

"You'll find more details and pictures in this overview."

Hey Roland, stop being MISLEADING and DISHONEST and say up front that you've taken other people's pictures and links (NOT more details), posted them at your BLOG, and that you want everyone to visit your BLOG so you can make more MONEY from increased traffic and ADVERTISING.

I have never seen anyone so shameless about directing so much traffic to their own blog for financial self-gain. It brings a new definition to the term blog spam

This overview of Roland Piquepaille spam activities is the most insightful that I have ever read. Even Slashdot's moderators agree that it's insightful.

How are these pebbles powered?

[arcade]

This may be a stupid question, but I'll ask it anyways.

The big question for me is .. how is these pebbles powered? They have to be powered by battery, but are they turned on/off with certain interval, doing measurements, then turned off? Or are they continously online? In either case, how does one make batteries last this long? How long has they already been deployed? The article mentiones 1988, but I really, really doubt that the batteries have been active in those tiny pebbles since that long ago ... when were they put into the ice?

Re:How are these pebbles powered?

[alriddoch]

The glacsweb probes contain about 4 small batteries. They contain a realtime clock, and are in a minimal power sleep mode for most of the time. They wake up once a day to talk to the base station on the surface. The probes are designed to last for a year, and the first batch were deployed in August 2003.

If Global Warming Gets to be Too Bad...

[fcolari]

...can the sensors float?

That's a good joke ... what about a poem?

[CemeteryWall]

One performance only

We'll fly you over burning forests
We'll walk you through the starving hoardes
We'll show you drowned and bloated corpses
At a price you CAN afford

You'll glide above the sky in comfort
You'll sleep your nights in quiet hotels
You'll sit and watch our views in comfort
Of mankind in a thousand hells

Arma G Heddon

Alternatively we could really try to understand the science. It's a bit of a bore.
But we could start with the BBC.

Possible Application?

[Bowling Moses]

This technology might also be useful for avalanche detection. I saw a program on PBS about the Mt. Blanc glacier. In 1892 a lake hidden in the interior of the glacier breached the glacial ice it was trapped in, and the resulting flood/avalanche killed 200 people in the town of Saint Gervais. The glaciers on Mt. Blanc have been retreating, but in melting process have developed large liquid water filled caves--which on the PBS program they got some loonies to go dive in. Other mountains probably have similar melting features, so if you could deposit sensors like those in the article into these glaciers you might be able to avert disaster.

Nova

[Dachannien]

There was an episode of Nova a while back called Descent into the Ice, which talked about a group of glacier explorers who were concerned about huge lakes of water forming inside glaciers.

Anyway, one of the people they talked to also did observation/research underneath a glacier. There had been tunnels dug through the mountain and up to the bottom of the glacier, and he set up a time lapse camera underneath the glacier.

It was one of the most amazing things I've ever seen. Ever.

Mobile phone connection?

[markh1967]

How is it that they can get a mobile phone signal from ontop a glacier yet I can't get a signal from my house?