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Programming For Terrified Adults?
makeitreal writes "My mom is getting bored with learning the basics of email and has mastered Solitaire. She asked me what I do on my computer and I told her that I was teaching myself programming in Scheme. She expressed an interest in learning what I was doing, but I tried to teach it to her with the HtDP and we didn't even get past the introductory chapter. Everything I've looked at so far seems too complicated (Scheme, Python, VB) or too childish (Logo, Squeak, Lego Mindstorms). Is there anything in the middle that is also cheap/free and suitable for adults? Or should I give up the whole idea?"
is a good choice...
Some days I get the sinking feeling Orwell was an optimist.
Teach her HTML, CSS, and javascript. Useful and rather simple. It also provides a launching pad into the not-to-difficult php, or, if she's a savant --perl. Javascript is a nice intro to basic programming concepts (functions, statements, operatos and logic)
harmonious design
Seriously, what's wrong with Logo? It's a great primer for programming. It lets people perfectly associate programatic statements to actions. Very very good primer.
There is nothing childish about Squeak or Logo. Squeak is a complex, high-powered Smalltalk development environment. I'd consider it too complex for beginning programmers, although I gather some people are using it for teaching introductory courses. And despite its innocent appearance, Logo is a powerful programming language.
But why not pick some language she might actually use for something? PHP or JavaScript might be a good choice. Or the Macromedia Flash scripting language--that way, she could make animations.
If she really wants to learn it as an intellectual exercise, I'd just stick with Scheme for her--there are good learning environments and tons of materials for learning programming with Scheme.
She is just trying to reach you and understand you more.
What it probably means is this: Take her out more often then just once a year you geek!
Don't focus on dhtml or anything beyond the scope of the language. You want an easy learning curve giving her skills she can use everywhere. On its own, JavaScript is a very simple, powerful, and forgiving language, who's syntax closely resembles most of the other mainstream programming languages.
Good luck. I'm still trying to teach my mom to program. And she has a bachelor's degree in CS.
Yeah, I'm tired of all this "old people can't do this stuff" line of thinking. If they had an interest, they would. My mother taught herself a bunch of stuff with the comp and took classes at the local community college in Unix, etc. at age 50+. Point is, if your mom had an interest, and she's not a retard, she would be able to handle VB.
Learning php in conjunction with html may be the way to go. The reason for this is that unlike most "hello world" programs which end up in the boring and seemingly non-relevant console, her first programs will be on the web: something she is familer and comfortable with and immediatly sees the value of. In other words, it may be best to try to keep things relevant and relating it to ideas she already knows well.
Bad choices: anything web related. PHP, HTML, CSS, Javascript all that is the WORST way you can start. The complications of badly-designed programming languages compounded with the whole saving and refreshing bit, various browser quirks, and things that look almost nothing like an IDE.
Functional, imperative, and probably even object oriented languages in general will be nearly impossible on a conceptual level. They're designed to be useful for someone who thinks that way, which normal people really don't!
The best idea I've seen here is QuickBasic (or QBasic will do in a pinch). Instantly complains when you make a mistake, so you can fix it. A 'command' window, which allows you to execute single statements, allows you to start with hello world without even the concept of 'running'. Automatically takes care of case, and downright intuitive in terms of runtime errors. Basic procedural language.
Basic is definately the place to start. Once Mommy's mastered qbasic, then you can start with some more interesting languages.
hypercard ... ok
but bash scripting ??
that's about the last thing i'd recommend
the syntax is among the worst i've ever seen.
it's inconsistent, needs spaces in strange places
etc. if python is too complicated bash certainly isnt an option.
Seriously though, why do you assume she'd be interested in programming? I've been using computer almost all my life and I absolutely hate programming. Teach her how to use Access and let her develop a database to track something at home. Show her how to use instant messaging to hang out in chat rooms and pick up younger men, etc. Maybe she'd be interested in playing around with Photoshop with a digital camera or video editing with a camcorder. Don't pigeon-hole her into programming as the next evolutionary step she needs to make after learning e-mail! That's just crazy.
The number one reason I hate programming is that I don't have any reason to program anything. 99% of the time things I would want to write are already on freshmeat so why reinvent the wheel? Besides, I don't have the patience for coding outside a classroom environment where I have a very strict set of instructions on what the program should do and what mechanisms you need to use to implement it.
Well, of course HTML isn't very complicated ... but it also isn't programming. It's more akin to word processing. What would be the point? It has none of the fundamental elements of programming, such as variables, branching, etc. In fact, pretty much the only thing it has in common with any programming language is the word "language."
No, not with line numbers, and not with GOTOs. QBasic doesn't need them. If you teach it with some structure, and make sure that she declares her variables, she can have a total blast and get a feel for what programming is about. Fast and fun results will prevent loss of interest, which is probably the biggest threat to your project. Further, the knowledge that she gains will not be obsolete because the procedural statements are almost identical to VBScript. And the built-in help file is actually useful. Face it, you have to start with something fast and easy if you want to hold her interest.
How the hell is squeak too childish?
Of the things that you list there, squeak is probably the most powerful, advanced, well-designed learning system out there. And not only is it a learning system, it is used for SERIOUS purposes by people doing SERIOUS work. The fact that it is also a good learning environment speaks to the uniqueness and elegance of Smalltalk.
Even attempting to lump in squeak with Logo and Lego mindstorms shows that you really do not understand what you are dealing with.
_please_.. do not make general statements like these without actually knowing what you are talking about. And trust me, on this point, you do not know what you are talking about.
-Laxitive
I write software for a living, but I never know what direction to go in until I have a well-defined set of goals. Learning is kind of the same beast.
A good example might be a recipe program (to go on the typical "mom"). You could start out with some simple GUI stuff, putting windows on the screen, maybe a couple simple menus and clickies. The first recipies can be hardcoded, then back it with a simple database.
Sure as hell beats writing Hello World programs.
:wq
Eh. It's a quick and easy fix for someone who wants to "make their computer do something". It also tends to push the person to learn Javascript, and from there to learn PHP. It's like letting a young child play with a pen prior to them learning the alphabet. They learn the basic control over the instrument. (in the case of HTML: dealing with syntax, the importance of precision, learning mnemonic tricks for remembering things like "img src" (IMaGe SouRCe), etc.)
Yes, it's not a programming language--but look at the goals. To allow someone to branch out into a new area. It's unlikely his mom wants to become a professional programmer...
-Sara
Scheme is not a complicated language. In fact, that's its biggest advantage. It's dead freakin' simple, so much so that the entire language specification is only a few pages long.
Compared to it, Python is an abomination of complexity--and Python's not a complex language, either.
You're not going to find a simpler, more straightforward pair of languages than Scheme and Python. If you're not able to make either of those languages comprehensible to your mother, then I'd respectfully suggest one of these is true:
- She doesn't want to learn (isn't willing to make the investment in time, effort, etc.)
- She doesn't understand basic mathematics ("what's a function?", etc.)
- You don't understand the languages you're trying to teach
- You're not communicating effectively
Any of those would seem far more likely to me than "Python and Scheme are too hard".Pascal was designed to be a teaching language. It's approach is simple if the language doesn't say it legal to do, it's illegal. Being such a tightly defined language its error messages are very good.
As a college programming instructor, I totally disagree with this. I'd love to test your hypothesis by:
(1) Posting your "immediate" Java code creating a window, button, etc.
(2) Showing it to this guy's mother, and
(3) Being there when she freaks out over it.
We know where leadership by an anti-intellectual "strongman" who scapegoats minorities and likes boisterous rallies goes
Any language you choose is easy once you 'get it'. No language is intuitive or easy. Basic concepts are relatively simple in all languages (if/then, looping, comparisons, basic math) but the use of those methods to DO stuff is what's hard.
She's eventually going to need to bite the bullet and figure out how it all goes together. No pain, no gain and programming is all about pain.
Suggestion - have her conceive of something she'd like to automate. Does she use spreadsheets? Great! There have to be any number of things she does over and over and over that would be prime candidates for coding. Guess what? Most sheets include programming languages. Now she has a goal (automate a task) and a tool (scripting language). She's 1/2 way there.
Once she's gotten her feet wet, it's just a matter of building more and more complex systems and figuring out the techniques of programming.
My personal choice for the best tool to quickly and easily build apps that really do cool stuff - Lotus Notes. Full built in development environment, choice of two built in languages plus hooks to whatever else you'd like, a limited number of widgets with a limited number of methods and properties - it's totally possible to get the entire environment into your head making it easy to focus on the objective rather than finding the right method. Downside - you gotta buy the designer client and it's about a grand.
Python is similar to Notes in that the language is small enough to grasp and is extensible.
If she gives you crap about 'it'll take me years to learn how to do this', just tell her the years are going to go by whether or not she tries this so go for it!
HTH and wish her well - old farts can learn new tricks too.
Dogu (an old fart who gets paid to write code)
Beginners All-purpose Symbolic Instruction Code was also designed to teach people how to program.
It has a syntax.
It is easy to deploy
It applies the concept of nesting
Its a weak introduction to xml
It can be mastered in a matter of days
Its a great launchpad towards JavaScript
It makes old ladies smile a heck of a lot more than
I'm a writer, a poet, a genius, I know it. I don't buy software, I grow it.
What does Mom do when she is not on the computer? What interests does she have? Who does she e-mail?
Rather than just looking at programming, maybe she is more generally looking for other things to do with her computer. Maybe her interest in programming is more of an interest in you and what you enjoy doing.
Does she craft? Does she garden? Does she cook? Would she like to play bridge with other people rather than just playing solitaire? Would she be interested in putting together a family history? Does she know how to engage safely with other folks with her interests on the internet? Can she google?
Is she an organization nut who would love to put things in databases? Does she have a collection she would like to itemize? Such lists and collections can be easier maintained on a computer. How about an inventory for insurance purposes? Would she want to use some sort of financial management program?
Would she be interested in obtaining recipes, craft ideas, or patterns?
Would she like to read, discuss, or publish poetry?
As for learning how to program, if her current activities do not point you in another obvious direction, HTML is an excellent place to start.
For all those screeching that HTML is not a programming language, what is there to reply but "duh, my aren't we all impressed that you recognize that HTML is markup language, bully for you."
Now let's help Mom.
HTML will get Mom used to typing in a text editor to produce a file which will get transformed into something else.
Mom will get instant gratification seeing her results in a web browser.
Mom will, within a few minutes, have something she can actually use and share with others.
Mom will make mistakes, see those mistakes, and be able to fix those mistakes.
Mom will get used to working with blocks.
Mom hopefully will see the advantages of writing in a manner which is easy to read.
A terrified adult does not need a tutorial on structured programming.
She needs to become not terrified.
Riannin
Everyone who said HTML is not a programming language is worried that they are not actually competent programmers. You're missing the big picture.
This is where so many of us fail our customers (and I do mean customers -- we work in a customer service industry, get used to it). We feel like we have to hide the following facts:
Being able to code well is not a viture, it's a talent. You're not holy because you can make more efficient use of the EAX register than your neighbor. And being able to code simple things is not out of the realm of ANYONE. It may be VERY simple things, but people can learn to fend for themselves in simple matters. Macros, mail filters, PowerPoint animation -- these things are ALL programming! Maybe not as holy as you all would like, but they are programming. Many developers feel like they are the priests of the code, and they have to prevent the laity from THINKING that they have anything figured out, because if the laity could figure any one thing out for themselves, then they might figure out OTHER things, and soon, what would they need priests for? Relax, you devout catholic programmers (I mean catholic as in definition #1 -- not religiously) programmers. Just because the laity can learn a little HTML, doesn't mean that your days of molesting your clients are over. You don't have to slam the door on HTML being a language as if it was heresy, and will undermine the church. Lighten UP!!!
My administrative assistant writes simple queries (forgotten username/passwords) because I took the time to show her how to do it. She also now maintains the web pages that deal with technical support for our product. Now, it's true, her account only has select permissions because I'm not ready to give her the keys to the DB. I also don't require her to check her web pages into CVS (although I should, it's so simple). It probably took 15 minutes to teach her how to read the schema, and how to structure a basic select. And she had had NO previous SQL experience. I've also heard MANY people say that SQL is not a programming language. This is just ridiculous.
Some developers poo poo (that's right, I said poo poo) HTML because it is easier to do, and people who THEY don't consider super smart are able to produce web pages. Because someone without formal training in "the art" can make something that makes a computer "do" something, insecure developers must berate that accomplishment.
This is arrogance of the highest order. Get over yourselves. None of us is Einstein. And programming is not the intellectual equivalent of a pissing contest. There is nothing sacred about what we do. Some people tend to talk about programming as if it's some mysterious art (not criticizing the Donald, whose books I revere). It's not. Some developers like to distguish themselves from "scripters." Some developers look down on DBA's as people who only maintain/tend the data.
You're all missing the fact that EVERYTHING that computers do is ONLY about the display and manipulation of data/information. All SGML derivatives are rules that the computer interprets, and then executes instructions based on those rules. And execution of rules is (IMHO)the beginning of programming
The reality is that we should be happy to have people understand how things rea
Nothing great was ever achieved without enthusiasm
...and her growing passion for computers.
DEFINETLY PERSUE THIS TASK!
commenting the above.
me thinks, that html seems to be a great choice as the parent points out:
- it is great as an introduction to getting the "machine" to do what "you" want
-> this feeling of control encourages to learn more
- it will make them familiar looking at conventional (as in content) text, mixed with text expressing abstract ideas
-> any one familiar wit LaTeX has to view html as just anoter way of wordprocessing; though what it comes down to and is of interest for the poster is, that learning and using html is a great introduction, especially for those having difficulty with anything 'academic', combining regular text, their content, with controling text. controling in the sense, as it has some form of control over the display of the content by the browser [regarding html].
then there is not only html. once you start to delve into the subject, you will unavoidably be confronted with such things as css, php, javascript, etc. php will again be daughnting, and far to advanced. javascript though, can be hacked by any script kidy.
now we are not only looking at formating text. even if his mother chose css as her next step. she will start to discover how to gain even more power over the machine, as now first actual manipulations are possible. this ability also delivers a sense of capability, encouraging to tackle more difficult issues/tasks. as well as that it trains the brain in abstraction, the basic principals of coding (creating folders, organising files, all very basic stuff, but the UNDERSTANDING delivers far more insight into the actual functioning of a computer), and give a first impression of the linguistic capabilities a machine has.
teaching your parents can be a daunting task, that one want to organise in a way, to make the whole adventure as pleasent, easy, and least time consuming as possible.
with html you can let you mum play around. introduce her to a simple editor where she can easily switch from editor to browser view, and explain this concept to her (first look into the difference of code and application, both are text, but both text have different meanings; to US this concept is as obvious as that the sky is blue, just as proving the existence of a probability is trivial to a mathematician, anyone new to programing is confused, that there is text[code] and that there is text[actuall text displayed through code], as one can note in the way i have written this down, 2 them it is all just TEXT). then give her a simple, but not so trivial, example that she can play around with. give her a bunch of links where to find more information. and then let nature do its thing.
i have tought english to chinese kids, who didn't speak a word of it, while i don't know a word of chinese (exagerating, by then i had learnt how to say 'hello' = 'ni`hao'), i have troubleshoot the troubles of my grandfather and given him basic instructions an application usage via the phone to england, i have helped out most friends and any other family member, besides my job as a software and web deveopment consultant. my experience is: give them the fundementals, and then just be there while they play around. remember all those animal movies, how every animal learns while playing. hhhmmm, (not) sorry if i offend any believers, but we are animals. ergo, we learn through playing. while watching them, guide them. by that i mean, show them how they can gain more. in any game one can not only get stuck, but also go down paths, that lead no where. that is where your job as a teacher comes in: you are their guide. you mountain guide tells you about the pit falls, points out dangers and oportunities, great views, as well as the best way to the desired destination. guide your student (mother) into the computer park .
good luck, and hopefully also fun;)