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Buy Second-Hand Games, Stifle Creativity?

Thanks to GameSpot for its 'GameSpotting' editorial discussing why buying second-hand games could have a negative effect on videogame creators. The author points out: "You know, Nintendo, Sony, and Microsoft must have a real love/hate relationship with stores that stock used games alongside their new games [since buying used games doesn't give] the game developers, or the game publishers a thin, red cent. Instead, the retailer is enjoying a nice, fat profit margin, where the markup is in the neighborhood of 200 to 1000 percent." He goes on to argue: "Buying used is equivalent to the game not selling at all in the eyes of developers and publishers, and when games don't sell, they don't get sequels and excellent concepts and, therefore, opportunities are lost."

13 of 217 comments (clear)

  1. Maybe they should take a hint. by Mark_MF-WN · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Maybe game developers and publishers should take a hint about what the sweet spot for pricing is.

    Why are business-types so colossaly stupid? The success of used games should indicate that selling games for two thirds of what they cost now would dramatically increase their sales. Instead of complaining, they could just take advantage of that trend. Losing 33% of your per-game revenue is irrelevant if you double total sales -- and since per-unit production costs are negligble, that's a pretty reasonable scenario.

    1. Re:Maybe they should take a hint. by Tuvai · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If they sold the games for two-thirds of their original price, the price of second hand software would simply fall to even lower levels, and the cycle would repeat.

      True, more games will be bought brand new, but these will be purchases from the usual suspects, the ones with either the loyalty, lack of patience, or high amounts of cash to be able to go out and purchase software at release. The large numbers of those who hawk second hand software will simply shrug their shoulders and wait for the even cheaper castoffs to arrive. I severely doubt we shall see a sharp enough spike to cover the massive developmental costs of games these days.

      There is little the developers can do to stop this in this valued free market, except go for the big launch, as it is the sleeper hits that tend to be screwed over the most.

    2. Re:Maybe they should take a hint. by Fizzl · · Score: 4, Insightful
      If they sold the games for two-thirds of their original price, the price of second hand software would simply fall to even lower levels, and the cycle would repeat.

      I disagree. There is just a spot where it is worthwhile to sell your used game instead of keeping it 'just for collection'. If the prices would dramatically drop, it would be much rarer ocassion that someone would want to part from their original game for miniscule payback. Also, the demand for second-hand games would decline if the games would be reasonably priced. Say, 20 euros for the latest hit game would make me buy games just for the heck of it.

      Currently I only play EverQuest and Americas Army. They have decent value for money (I buy EverQuest expansions when they hit the cheapo-bin at my local store). I'm not going to cough up 50 euros for yet-another-FPS.

    3. Re:Maybe they should take a hint. by Delphiki · · Score: 4, Insightful
      Wow, I always wonder all the greatest minds in business decide to spend all of their time reading slashdot. And you don't even work in business! What a horrible waste. You could revolutionize the gaming industry.

      Oh wait, maybe not. Maybe you just over simplified the situation and assumed everyone else is an idiot. Hey, you think if they dropped the price for games, then maybe people would start selling used games cheaper so it really wouldn't help their sales that much? No... that's crazy talk. Or gee, maybe they've done a little marketing research that suggests they wouldn't be able to double sales by cutting the price in half. Nah, "business-types" are colossoly stupid as you so aptly put it. They must have just not thought of it because they aren't smart like you.

      --

      Feel free to mod me "-1 - Angry Jerk".

  2. bullshit. by dunkelfalke · · Score: 4, Interesting

    if you sell used games you get money to buy new games. so simple.

    --
    Conservatism: The fear that somewhere, somehow, someone you think is your inferior is being treated as your equal.
    1. Re:bullshit. by MachDelta · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Very true. I bought a used game a while back (one of the Neverwinter Nights expansions) that had the previous owners' receipt in it. Out of curiosity, I looked to see what he had sold and bought. He sold 5 or 6 games/expansions for around $85 (Canadian), and bought 3 new ones (2 full games, 1 expansion) for something like $130. So the publishers and developers got ~$40 out of him, he got 3 new games, the retailer (EBGames) got to cash in on me, and I boosted my love for Bioware with their +2 Expansion of Funness.

      Whats wrong with that?

  3. This is stupid. by togofspookware · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Yeah, and when I buy a used couch, the couch manufacturing companies don't get my money either. So what? I wanted a couch, and the guy selling it didn't, so I bought it. That's how a free market works. Of *course* they'd rather I bought a new one!

    --
    Duct tape, XML, democracy: Not doing the job? Use more.
  4. You're problem is what exactly? by Torgo's+Pizza · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This was settled in court ages ago. What are you going to do? Put Ebay, Blockbuster, flea markets, Goodwill and used car lots out of business as well? It's pretty much a consumer's right to sell, trade in or do whatever he wants to his purchase. It's not like game publishers also don't get into this as well. How else do you explain the collector's editions, multiple covers, numbered boxes and special editions? Sorry, but the crying towel for this subject was used long, long ago.

  5. Community support by cgenman · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Community support goes a long way to getting a sequal made. Prince of Persia: SOT sold pretty poorly overall, but because of the tremendous buzz surrounding it the Prince of Persia line is suddenly revitalized. It's never about how well this game sold, it's about how well people think the next game will sell. Part of that is based upon sales numbers, but a large part of that is based around the size of the community around the game. Used games greatly foster community.

    Furthermore, the reason used game prices are so high (besides EB's fat profit margin) is that not enough people sell their games. People become attached to them, like good books or movies, and don't want to give them up. Also, because they retail for 50 and sell for 5, people understandably are shocked by the depreciation. If you want to support gaming as a hobby, go third party. Sell back any games that you don't play anymore, and sell them to the smaller local stores that haven't been gobbled up by the major chain.

    Cry no tears for Nintendo. It is true that their profits were cut in half this year, but that was cut in half to a half billion dollars. Used games are necessarily a diminishing-returns phenomenon. Most games launch at a rediculous price, and are quickly reduced as demand subsides. Very few people resell their games, and the few that do generally plow that money right back into the hobby of gaming. Does that mean the copy of Metroid Prime you picked up used for 20 bucks from a local mom-and-pop videogame store doesn't pay Nintendo a penny? Yes, but the same could be said of reselling movies, cars, furnature, or anything else in life. Nintendo made their money. Sony made their money. Microsoft made their money. If the person who paid for that game wants to sell it to plow even more money back into their hobby than I can't see how this hurts the gaming ecosystem.

    As a game developer, I welcome the practice. Heck, I own a used copy of one of the games I helped develop, which I picked up for 11 dollars.

  6. I buy used games... by wheresdrew · · Score: 5, Insightful
    ...because they're cheaper.

    That's the bottom line. Ebay, Gamestop, EB Games or local independent game shops, it's all good. Saves me money and allows me to buy more games. If they want to sell more copies of newer titles, I see two options:

    1. Make the game worth $50

    2. Make the game cost less than $50

  7. Game sales by Flyboy+Connor · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Game developers told me that the first three months after a game is released are crucial: that's when they sell the most of them. Everything after that period is nice, but if they didn't make a profit in the first three months, they never will. I am quite certain that in those first three months it would be rare to encounter a second-hand version of a game. Of course, you will find the warez-rip in the first three days after a game's release...

  8. Developers are crying to the wrong people by neura · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Just like the music industry, the artists (developers) should be bitching out the publisher for ripping them off. Publishers make most of the money and do the least amount of actual work. Not saying they don't do much work. Everybody involved does a lot of work, but they have by far the largest payoff.

  9. Greased Up Jesus On A Pogo Stick! by limekiller4 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    When the fuck did it become the gamer's duty to subsidize a skewed pricing tier? This reeks of "if we don't rape you for $16 for every CD, you won't get to listen to the inspired strains of the Backstreet Boys, oh hell!" RIAA shill.

    First, creativity will always exist. If it flounders, an opportunity will emerge. There will always be people for whom the "work" is more akin to "love" and will do it not only cheaper but better than the competition. Linux*cough*linux.

    Second, if old games were $15 and new games were $25, would this problem exist?

    Believe it or not, I'm fairly tolerant of self-indulgent Slashdot posts. But this one takes the cake.

    --
    My .02,
    Limekiller