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Leveraging Linux when Hardware is a Commodity?

AKInnovation asks: "My company produces peripheral hardware used in commercial applications, such as retail POS. In our market, amongst other such hardware manufacturers, we are the only ones to offer Linux software solutions (drivers). This distinction has recently won us several large accounts. When the hardware becomes a commodity, and you must compete on the software side to keep the money coming in, how can releasing your code as Open Source be rationalized to management?"

69 comments

  1. Easy: Its the people. by torpor · · Score: 5, Insightful


    It is my opinion that the future of Open Source is "General-purpose codebase re-applied to Custom Computing Scenario".

    how can releasing your code as Open Source be rationalized to management?

    1. Release your code.
    2. Manage your contributing developer community. (Sourceforge)
    3. Grow the codebase by doing #2 well.
    4. Establish good working relationships with customers, customize the codebase for them. (Customers == people who want customized work.)
    5. Add a services department that does #4, and only #4, when you've got #2 under control.

    OSS is the grand unifier which sets the standards - pretty high - for everyone. The way you differentiate is by really identifying the needs of your customers and then using the OSS machine to deliver on those needs ...

    --
    ; -- the corruption of government starts with its secrets. a truly free people keep no secrets. --
    1. Re:Easy: Its the people. by hdparm · · Score: 3, Insightful
      This is so true. I'm afraid that his management does not understand this though. They are still in a 'retail' mindset and I doubt they will ever be able to recognise real benefits for everyone.

      I guess he wouldn't have asked for advice otherwise.

    2. Re:Easy: Its the people. by pshanks · · Score: 2, Informative
      actually customers == people who want you to worry about the codebase while they get on with their business.

      Even if the source is 'out there', customers don't have the time, skills or interest in modifying it for their stock tables, inventory tracking systems or CRM modules. Meanwhile your open source codebase is losing bugs and growing ever larger (and harder for your competitors to assimilate :-)

    3. Re:Easy: Its the people. by Sepper · · Score: 3, Insightful

      This is so true. I'm afraid that his management does not understand this though. You just have to make them understand that computers products won't mater in the future... Knowledge will. Why? Because cost associated with copying data is next to none, so unless you force your customer to buy multiple copy, only a single copy is going to be bought.

      If, on the contrary, you give away the product but charge for services, you will have a large customer, and, while you won't have the monopoly on services for your product, your will still control developpement done over the said product.

      That is the direction that IBM is heading: Consulting. Why? If You're Not A Part Of The Solution, There's Good Money To Made In Prolonging The Problem.

      :)

      --
      I live in Soviet Canuckistan you insensitive clod!
    4. Re:Easy: Its the people. by 4of12 · · Score: 1

      A key thing here, too, is that confidence in your ability means you don't need to rely upon on closing the source to keep your customers. They will stay because it is manifestly evident that you do good work and have good people.

      If your people become the key developers of Project X, which is GPL'd, then they will be the ones that people turn to for expertise.

      Not just in adding features to Project X, but also in deploying and maintaining Project X at their site, customizing it to their business needs, etc. Those latter tasks are probably where more of the money is, even though programmers and developers like the glamour of the former. Just do the former to establish the reputation you need for the latter.

      Sure, someone can fork off a Project AlmostX from your codebase, but the good work on Project X will have an established reputation and people will want to stick to the mainstream.

      I mean, really, how much of the marketplace has been siphoned off by MySuperPatchedLinux or by YourSQL?

      --
      "Provided by the management for your protection."
    5. Re:Easy: Its the people. by rifter · · Score: 1

      actually customers == people who want you to worry about the codebase while they get on with their business.

      Even if the source is 'out there', customers don't have the time, skills or interest in modifying it for their stock tables, inventory tracking systems or CRM modules. Meanwhile your open source codebase is losing bugs and growing ever larger (and harder for your competitors to assimilate :-)

      Which is why the original poster said you customize the code for them. In other words people who want/need features pay you for the service of adding them for them.

  2. Find other ways to compete, or die. by Anaxagor · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Software is fast becoming a commodity too - if you're in the US, you're competing with code churned out in India, and pretty soon those guys are going to be undercut by code factories in places like the Philippines, and so on, and so on...

    Very few organisations can rely on software for their *only* competitive advantage... Microsoft are making game consoles, Red Hat are branding themselves as a solutions provider and SCO decided to pursue racketeering as a business model.

    So compete on service; offer value-adds like training and consulting, facilities management, hosting, colocation, monitoring etc.

    1. Re:Find other ways to compete, or die. by MS_is_the_best · · Score: 2, Funny

      Yep, Microsoft is really unable to make a living out of Windows and Office....

      Get real.

    2. Re:Find other ways to compete, or die. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      if you're in the US, you're competing with code churned out in India, and pretty soon those guys are going to be undercut by code factories in places like the Philippines, and so on, and so on...
      Are you saying that the Indian guys who took my team's (30+) jobs are going to be facing the same offshoring problem? Filipino coders working for $0.75/hr will replace the Indians who work for $2.50/hr who replaced my team which worked for $10.50/hr? If so, I can't fucking wait! Reap what you sow.

      Meanwhile, the codebase becomes a clusterfuck, the development team isn't awake when management is, vice versa, and somehow the company's stock continues to climb because by laying off 2,100 American workers and substituting them with 3,000 Indians at a tenth of the price, the "profit synergy enhancement margin" went up.

      And the execs got a few million extra bonus dollars.
    3. Re:Find other ways to compete, or die. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      if you're in the US, you're competing with code churned out in India, and pretty soon those guys are going to be undercut by code factories in places like the Philippines, and so on, and so on...

      I don't really think so. With an established code base and customization for a particular client's business, the one thing that India (or Phillipines or whatever) cannot offer is a detailed, up-close examination of the daily processes that have to be tailored to in order to create that customization. Factor in communications problems and cultural differences and there is an even bigger barrier to moving this kind of thing off-shore.

      So compete on service; offer value-adds like training and consulting, facilities management, hosting, colocation, monitoring etc.

      Well, yeah, this is all part of a total solution. Those that think that their job ends when they deliver compiled code can be and should be replaced by coders in India, the Phillipines, etc. From your own post: Very few organisations can rely on software for their *only* competitive advantage...

      Now, from the original post that started this thread, he mentioned that they produce POS retail systems. Hardware is the least important component of such a system. Much more important is the data. If a retail outlet was destroyed by fire, you could rent a new storefront, replace the hardware, divert supllies that are enroute to restock and be open for business again in a matter of days (OK, maybe 2 weeks). But what about the data? Pricing, accounting, supplier and customer records, all of these are irreplaceable. Offer automated backup, off-site storage and an emergency plan that will allow a client to weather these kinds of disasters and they won't even consider an offshore software-only solution.

    4. Re:Find other ways to compete, or die. by yason · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Yep, Microsoft is really unable to make a living out of Windows and Office.... Get real.

      But he's true. Microsoft would have a hard time selling commodities like O/S + bundled software, Office etc. if we were to start from scratch, without the huge momentum and inertia involved in the 10 years of monopolist tradition of using vendor-locking MS products. There are few competitors in commercial desktop O/S + Office department not only because MS is practicing tough monopolism but also because the market has stagnated, saturated. When was the last time you waited for the next version of your favorite word processor, like in the 80's/90's? Now people implement O/S's and office suites in their spare time and they make it open source.

      Do you remember when Netscape was selling their browser? I guess they made a few dimes during the first years but nobody does make money off web browsers anymore, not even from companies. Same goes for making web pages: only a little money is paid for writing HTML, unlike in the late 90's. Web and HTML are commodities. These days companies buy meta software like a CMS instead of web pages. They buy customized software solutions instead of retail products. They don't buy Apache or IIS (if both were on sale as separate products) but a web application framework and custom development on that.

      OSS fits the scheme perfectly, where companies only want to pay for their part and get standard software on the basis of their solution. CSS fits in less perfectly but it's still drifting towards the same situation, anyway.

    5. Re:Find other ways to compete, or die. by Anaxagor · · Score: 1

      With an established code base and customization for a particular client's business, the one thing that India (or Phillipines or whatever) cannot offer is a detailed, up-close examination of the daily processes that have to be tailored to in order to create that customization. Factor in communications problems and cultural differences and there is an even bigger barrier to moving this kind of thing off-shore.

      Ever dealt with an outsourcing company? Almost never have I seen an end customer deal with a programming team off-shore. They buy the app from someone like IBM, who then subcontract to an on-shore branch office, who handle the liaison between on-shore and off-shore teams. That way, cultural differences aren't an issue, and the customer can say "Well we deal with a local company, we can't dictate to them who they employ, your beef is with them not us" if there's any public relations fallout to contend with.

      Those that think that their job ends when they deliver compiled code can be and should be replaced by coders in India, the Phillipines, etc.

      You really think that it's only the slack-arsed programmers who've lost their jobs through outsourcing? I've seen good guys go too, because it typically affects entire teams, entire departments, entire organisations, not just the odd one or two who couldn't meet their KPI's.

      Offer automated backup, off-site storage and an emergency plan...

      Yes. This is how to remain competitive. Offer services that are still difficult for an outsourcer to provide. Something localised. Something you can't upload to Mumbai in the evenings, ready to download the next morning with yesterday's changes done.

    6. Re:Find other ways to compete, or die. by Singletoned · · Score: 2, Insightful
      nobody does make money off web browsers anymore, not even from companies.

      Don't Opera make money from web browsers?

      (I agree with your general point though...)

    7. Re:Find other ways to compete, or die. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      you forgot OSS at the bottom of the list, churning out codes at
      $0.00/hr !

      IMO -- like a lot, codes would eventually be free. The only thing left in the software engineering dept. would be design, and support

    8. Re:Find other ways to compete, or die. by stevew · · Score: 1

      I agree 100% - and oddly I think software is the real commodity, not hardware!

      While a base PC is a commodity, many peripheral solutions are not. Hardware will always have a physical cost, while software doesn't have too - if nothing else due to the cost of production between software and hardware. (Note I didn't account for development costs here.)

      This means things that everyone uses, i.e. the OS will be a commodity. By-BYE Bill....

      --
      Have you compiled your kernel today??
    9. Re:Find other ways to compete, or die. by yason · · Score: 1

      Don't Opera make money from web browsers?

      AFAIK they make most of their money by selling licenses/customized versions for embed systems or to be integrated. That goes more to the "non-commodity" category, though you're right about that (a minority of) people has indeed bought Opera for their desktops, too.

      Still, Opera is pretty much the *only* browser vendor viably in business, so we're not talking about a notable market here.

    10. Re:Find other ways to compete, or die. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You really think that it's only the slack-arsed programmers who've lost their jobs through outsourcing?

      No, and that really wasn't my thrust... it is easier to export a strctly programming job than it is a programming + customer interface + whatever job. I do lotsa little contracting jobs for different companies where I wear every hat! My type of job will likely never be outsourced because a. it does take many different skillsets in one person (right now, only me!) including hardware, software, accounting, networking, etc. b. they are typically too damned small to interest the likes of IBM, DataXXXX etc. c. I do offer exactly those things I mentioned above (i.e. auto backup, off-site storage and emergency plans), not in any response to off-shoring but because I think it makes sense for any business to be worried about such things. After I explain it to companies, they usually agree.

    11. Re:Find other ways to compete, or die. by Singletoned · · Score: 1

      Actually these days they make most of their money from MS settlements... ; )

    12. Re:Find other ways to compete, or die. by ccp · · Score: 1


      Don't Opera make money from web browsers?

      My guess is they don't. Their Web browser is a loss leader for a stable of very specialised browser that bring the money in.

      I'm posting this from Opera 7.5 beta, but the last Opera I've paid for was 3.52.
      I'm always wondering why they don't just make it free (as in beer), and gain huge marketshare.
      After all, once upon a time Opera was hands down the best browser out there, but now Mozilla and Konqui are almost there.

      Cheers,

    13. Re:Find other ways to compete, or die. by confused+one · · Score: 1

      Actually, the sales of their cash-cows (Windows and Office) are falling... And MS is worried.

  3. Did someone else ... by dr.+greenthumb · · Score: 3, Informative

    ... at first not get that "POS" stands for "Point Of Sale" .. ? ;p

    1. Re:Did someone else ... by GeckoX · · Score: 1

      Well, that's assuming first that the product is actually _not_ a POS ;)

      --
      No Comment.
  4. Thats a tough one by JaF893 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    If you are the only ones in your market to "offer Linux software solutions" then you are shooting yourself in the foot by open sourcing the drivers. In other words the only thing that seperates you from your competitors right now is your linux drivers and by giving them away you are levelling the palying field and removing your main advantage.

    This is why you may struggle to convince the management that open sourcing your drivers is a good thing(TM). I think your best chance of convining the management is if you present to them a number of case studies of companies open sourcing drivers. For example, Intel releasing modified open source drivers for Centrino chispets. I also think that you will need to present an effective system for managing the open source project.

    1. Re:Thats a tough one by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      If you are the only ones in your market to "offer Linux software solutions" then you are shooting yourself in the foot by open sourcing the drivers.

      That kind of depends on whether you are interested in selling hardware or software. If manufacturing hardware is your forte, then open-sourcing the software drivers will sell lots more hardware in markets that any single company cannot possibly have the resources to develop.

      The original article mentioned POS systems. Well, these can be used in bars, doctor's offices, muffler shops, etc, etc. The hardware is identical. But there are such radical differences in the way that each of these different businesses are run that I don't that any one company could concentrate adequately on each different application sufficiently to service them all. Let others take care of the software (read system) differentiation and sell hardware to them all!

    2. Re:Thats a tough one by BillyBlaze · · Score: 1
      In other words the only thing that seperates you from your competitors right now is your linux drivers and by giving them away you are levelling the palying field and removing your main advantage.

      That doesn't make sense. We're talking drivers, not POS software, and they're only useful with your hardware, which you're selling. Giving away the binaries, or even the sources, helps your customers, not your competitiors.

      If both you and your competitor sell the same hardware as part of your solution, it's a bit different. Then you are giving away some advantage by open sourcing the drivers, but you're also gaining some advantages. Given the choice of two POS solutions, most Linux people would prefer the one whose company maintains the open source drivers for their hardware. And by open sourcing them, you reduce your legal liability - if you distribute closed source drivers, your competitors could put a kernel developer up to suing you for GPL violations or copyright infringement.

    3. Re:Thats a tough one by spitzak · · Score: 1

      That's only a problem if those open-source drivers actually work with the competitor's hardware.

    4. Re:Thats a tough one by dubl-u · · Score: 1

      you are shooting yourself in the foot by open sourcing the drivers

      That sounds like the case.

      As a programmer, I always like the idea of open-sourcing stuff. But from a business perspective, I can only think of two cases where it makes sense. The first is with the parts of your code that you think of as boring, commodity stuff. An operating system is a good example of that; if I have a patch for some Linux thing, I'm glad to share it because the value of a free, community-developed operating system is very high to me, but my slight improvement to it gives my competitors little additional advantage. Other good examples include the stuff from the Apache foundation, like their httpd and Struts.

      The other case is where I want to gain mindshare. For example, the program Anthill has an open-source version and a commercial version. People who use the free one are much more likely to buy the commercial one. In essence, they give away the old version of their app in exchange for patches, suggestions, and attention from potential buyers.

      So in the case of a hardware vendor like yourselves, you could try this strategy by, say, open-sourcing a basic API layer and related device management tools, while keeping much of your device-related code proprietary. Done right, this could establish a standard that your competitors would have to hustle to follow.

      The best example I can think of in the hardware space is the Hayes modem protocol. Of course, it didn't guarantee them success, but the fact that all of their competitors had to put "Hayes-compatible" on their boxes sure didn't hurt them any.

  5. Re:Easy: Its the people.(GPL question) by G4from128k · · Score: 2, Interesting

    4. Establish good working relationships with customers, customize the codebase for them. (Customers == people who want customized work.)

    How does GPL treat for-pay customized code in terms of what must be released in the open to the public vs. can be kept closed and confidential? If a customer pays to add highly proprietary features added to a GPL codebase, does GPL force the release of that code? Can a company that is using GPL code contract with its contirbuting development community to make closed-source customizations of GPL code under an NDA? If the customer with the customized GPL-derived code then sells that software to their customers or franchisees, does that force the release of the code?

    I'm just wondering how the open/GPL world of free software interfaces with the closed world of proprietary business innovations.

    --
    Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do.
  6. Explain what the boss is getting by lachlan76 · · Score: 2

    Just tell you boss what he is getting:
    Thousands of potential developers, all working for free.

    Have an in-house team of programmers review the code before it is made the production release of course, but otherwise, let the code go free.

    I think a lot of people would be willing to help improve the code in general in exchange for the chance to customise it to fit their own needs.

    1. Re:Explain what the boss is getting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      1. I think a lot of people would be willing to help improve the code in general in exchange for the chance to customise it to fit their own needs.

      Depends entirely on what the software is and what the level of interest in it from developers is.

      That said, just throwing it out there will be a bad idea since it confuses people or -- for the few people that might 'get it' -- opens the project up to being forked in a direction that isn't helpful to the goals of the company sponsoring it.

      Also -- while I consider this a good thing -- opening the source introduces competition and clarity. It forces the sponsor to 'do the right thing' and make substantial improvements beyond what the contributors provide. These are not the same as marketable features, though they can be!

      If the source is closed the company is in a 'take it or leave it' frame of mind and will only react to what they think paying customers want and just enough to satisfy most of those paying customers (even if it's hype: Example: Comcast's '100% pure broadband' -- WTF???).

    2. Re:Explain what the boss is getting by LWATCDR · · Score: 1

      This is myth in this case, thousands of potential developers? You right there are thousands of programers just waiting to hack on a device driver for a cash drawer.
      Are you just selling the hardware or the hardware and the POS software?
      The only sure benifit you will get is good will. And if you are dependant on outside developers to interface with your products then that is worth something. Other benifits could be.
      1. Porting to non-intel hardware under Linux.
      2. Porting to non linux Unix's like BSD and OS/X
      3. Get support for your hardware in open source POS projects.

      The downside could be.
      1. Other companies use your drivers to get there hardware to work with Linux. This one is pretty minor. If they have writen windows drivers for this stuff Linux drivers will be pretty easy for them to right.
      2. Open source people making your drivers work with other hardware.

      It would not really be a bad thing for your company to do just do not expect a lot of people giving you code. Most OSS project have under 10 people that actually give any code.

      --
      See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
    3. Re:Explain what the boss is getting by burns210 · · Score: 1

      and the boss replies: "yes, we 'get' those developers, but so do all our competition, along with all the code we produce(if it is gpled software".

      So company A, using GPLed software, and has a decent inhouse developer staff to customize the code, while company B, uses the same GPLed software and competes against A, house no, or only a small fraction of the developer staff of A, but company B gets all the innovation of A, due to the GPL license requiring the code to be GPLed itself.

      How does A compete with B, when A is doing (essentially) R&D for B, and B has significantly lower costs, overall.

    4. Re:Explain what the boss is getting by hsoft · · Score: 1

      Exactly. That is why I think that Open Source is not the answer to everything. In this case, I also don't think OSS is the solution at all. Keep it secret. Keep it safe.

      --
      perception is reality
    5. Re:Explain what the boss is getting by burns210 · · Score: 1

      RMS just had a heart attack, but you and I are in agreement, this situation is not a good one for linux...

      Linux, essentially makes the OS commodity, what is left, then, is the hardware, support and software that runs on the OS. An OSS company, has to leverage one of those three(hardware, support, software) or a combination to be able to have a chance.

  7. Re:Easy: Its the people.(GPL question) by AlecC · · Score: 5, Informative

    As I understand it, yes. The GPL requires release of the code only to the customer who pays you for it. You must transfer to the customer full rights to the GPL original code and to your updates to that code. The customer then has the right to release that code under the GPL - or not, which is probably what they will choose. The GPL does not say that you must release back to the developer community, only that you must release full GPL sources to anyone to whom you sell the code. If your customer then sells your code on, they are equally bound by the GPL to give the code, with full GPL rights, to their customers.

    I.e. A business can add their business idea to GPL code (including implemented by you) for their own, essentially in-house, purposes. However, they cannot take a lot of GPL code, sprinkle a few neat ideas onto it, and market the result as a closed source package.

    --
    Consciousness is an illusion caused by an excess of self consciousness.
  8. Re:my experience by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why would the company bother releasing gamepad drivers for Linux when they know there is such a minute market share? 90% of Linux hardware drivers are made by hackers who own the hardware and need to get them working to satisfy "that urge."

  9. Open Source is a Marketing tool by lotussuper7 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    If you look at the Business relationship you have with customers, then Open Source can be a very strong marketing tool.

    Many larger contracts for systems require that either the (embeded) source either be provided or placed in escrow in case the company goes under, drops the product, etc. Such a requirement is simply being smart in a business relationship.

    And, there is no assurance that just because your company is large, it is going to survive.

    So, if you provide open source, your sales types can start hyping that very fact as a HUGE feature, that you want to step up to the plate and work with your business partners to protect THEIR business decisions, yada, yada, yada.

    Make your money doing customization of the code. (Your customers won't want to, that's why they came to you in the first place rather than developing their own solution.)

    Forget the "thousands of eyes" arguments, it means nothing to your customers from a business perspective. It may help convince a geek, but it wont fly with the guy who signs the PO.

    --
    ----- Lotus Super 7 - A real car. :-}
  10. One nit... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative
    You're spot on. Very good description. The only nit? Change...

    1. The GPL does not say that you must release back to the developer community, only that you must release full GPL sources to anyone to whom you sell the code.

    ...to this;

    1. The GPL does not say that you must release back to the developer community, only that you must release full GPL sources to anyone to whom you distribute the code.

    Sell it directly, sell it as part of a hardware device, give it to a friend, give it to the world...the GPL does not discriminate.

    1. Re:One nit... by mabhatter654 · · Score: 1

      the subtlty is in the "distribute" part of it. Just because you put linux in a device doesn't mean you HAVE to publish your new stuff on the web for everybody on sourceforge. In these guys case, just toss the source code for the drivers on the OEM driver CD [that typical customers never actually open], then your complying with the GPL! In these guys case, very few of their business customers will ever venture much beyond the setup routine anyway. Sure some developers might, but most of them aren't going to put it on line "just because". Eventually somebody will post it, but it would be pretty low key/low risk.

  11. Software is also a commodity by squiggleslash · · Score: 3, Insightful
    This might seem an absurd comment at first sight. After all, Microsoft and Oracle are making a fortune out of software that apparently sells for much more than it costs to make. But at the same time, both, for different reasons, are selling on the basis of something other than what they technically are.

    Microsoft is not selling at $50-300 a seat because of functionality. It's selling at that rate because of branding and, to some extent, API control. Branding matters, even in commodity markets. Three companies that spring to mind that also use both these factors (branding, access to something unique under their control) to sell into markets that are considered "commodity" are Apple, IBM, and Sun, all of which do very well selling hardware at prices (and profits) much higher than the Wintel norm.

    Oracle isn't selling their database product, though for ease of understanding, that's what they claim to be doing (kind of like mobile phone companies "sell" mobile phones - well, they don't, they sell the service, but they market everything around the phone itself because that's easier for consumers to understand.) What they're selling is the consultancy and support required to set up a tremendously complex database on the technical level. This model hasn't worked that well in some areas, such as selling GNU/Linux distributions, but that's because... erm... well... GNU/Linux isn't - contrary to popular belief - something that's hard to set up.

    Right now there are relatively few companies that are selling mass market boxed software as software. Most are selling support contracts disguised as boxed software. There are exceptions, games for instance, but only because every game is very specific. Anyone can write an "Excel compatable spreadsheet" but Unreal Tournament is always going to be the only Unreal Tournament in existance. And it's noticable that prices of games plummet after a few months on the shelves, $50 dropping to $9.99 (pretty much the cost of the materials, box, printing, distribution, and retailer's cut) isn't uncommon.

    Would you start a company to sell operating systems? Do you have an idea for an office suite that you'd like to sell? Unless you have a major gimmick in your business plan, you're unlikely to even enter the market.

    So how does supporting Linux help you if what you sell is a commodity? Well, all it does really is add value, but, as your boss can probably testify, it doesn't add enough value that increasing the price of your product wouldn't destroy your sales. However, there strikes me as being several solutions to this:

    The first is you don't need to support "Linux", you just need to support users. Not all your users run Linux, indeed, not all of them run the operating systems you want to support. Linux, BSD, etc programmers have proven time and time again that they'll support anything with a clock if you can plug it in and if the documentation exists. You already have that documentation - you needed it to write the Windows driver. You can publish that documentation at minimal cost to yourselves, and increase your marketshare without needing to raise costs. The Linux "community" will do the programming for you.

    In a reasonable world, that's what you should be doing anyway. Back in the 1980s, most computers I bought - from anyone from Sinclair to Commodore - came with so much documentation you could attack them with a soldering iron and know what you were doing. Even the Amiga 500+, released in 1991, came with circuit diagrams in the manual, and that's one of the most complex non-standard machines I've ever bought. We've suddenly evolved a rather bizarre level of secrecy which ultimately hurts users and also harms innovation.

    The second is you can encourage the use of open standards internally and externally. Open standards help level costs, and even when they don't, people will choose a $50 widget over a $40 widget if they don't need any special drivers for the $50 unit. One of the problems here is that manufacturers rarely reali

    --
    You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
    1. Re:Software is also a commodity by shaitand · · Score: 1

      What is this GNU/Linux thing you mention? I've heard of the Operating system Linux. I've heard of GNU applications which can be run on linux, but those applications and the linux operating system are independent of one another.

      There are distributions which bundle the linux operating system and the gnu applications (as well as lots of other application software).

      Have the GNU folks made a fork of the linux operating system? Or maybe produced a linux OS based distribution with applications (like theirs for instance) that I don't know about?

    2. Re:Software is also a commodity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Linux is a kernel, not an operating system. GNU/Linux is the combination of the GNU operating system with the Linux kernel.

      HTH.

    3. Re:Software is also a commodity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ah, an "operating system" which doesn't operate. How useful.

    4. Re:Software is also a commodity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      GNU works fine either with the bolted-on Linux kernel (the most popular way of running GNU), or with GNU's own kernel, Hurd. Hurd isn't perfect, which is why people use Linux, but it's certainly operational.

      Of course, you can try using Linux without a userland (from GNU or from BSD or whatever) too. That doesn't operate either...

    5. Re:Software is also a commodity by shaitand · · Score: 1

      The operating system controls the hardware and provides the core functionality for applications to run. The applications themselves are NOT part of the operating system.

    6. Re:Software is also a commodity by shaitand · · Score: 1

      The operating system controls the hardware and provides the core functionality for applications to run. The applications themselves are NOT part of the operating system.

      In fact, ALL the operating goes on in the kernel, applications merely ask it to do things for them.

      The operating system doesn't directly interface with the user, the operating system is the piece that interacts with software. Applications are what interacts with the user.

      The GNU applications can be ported and run on different kernels, and there are thousands of alternative or even entirely different applications which can serve their functions and be run on the linux operating system.

      Guess what, if you run the linux kernel in an embedded device and run a proprietary layer on top of it which doesn't in any way relate to a normal unix system... your still running the linux operating system.

  12. Use their code by Trevelyan · · Score: 2, Informative

    A key dffierence between a BSD style licence and a GPL one is forking and merging.

    BSD Allows unlimtied forks, but you cant merge forks back in (unless they remained BSD)
    GPL Allows limit forks, but you can always merge forks back in.

    What this means is if a competitor takes your GPL code, you can merge back any advances they made in their copy back into yours.

    Thus in this respect the palying field is kept level.
    Your advantages are that you were first, you know and undertand to code/product better, you reputation and such. Also if your code sparks interest you may end up with volunteers contributing.

    In the end a competitor may be able to catch up with you if you open source, but they could not over take in this area.

  13. Why it is a good idea...? by narrowhouse · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Or how to sell it to management? The reasons it is a good idea are listed by other comments, but unfortunately selling it to your bosses may have nothing to do with why it is a good idea. If you have forward thinking, long term strategy bosses you have a much better chance. If they are convinced that having software for Linux is their competitive advantage, they're probably not going to let that go. Right now they may even be right. Sharing the code before the competition has started developing their own solutions may kill a market advantage. If they open the code at the right time, say just before the competition rolls out their beta software that they spent months developing;), then your company can leverage the advantages of open code (i.e. outside input, bug checking, increased customer input) as the NEW advantage.

    --


    Insert pithy comment here.
  14. Don't release it as open-source by alienw · · Score: 4, Insightful

    If your only edge is the POS software, then don't release it as open-source. That would ruin your company, and I thought that was pretty obvious. The only time it would make sense to make software for a POS thing open-source is if the SOFTWARE is a commodity (Linux is an example of this, except with operating systems). Otherwise, it would simply give your competitors a boost.

    Of course, if your customers want access to the source, then you can give it to them under a restrictive license (so they still have to buy your hardware). But you don't want to lose your competitive edge.

    1. Re:Don't release it as open-source by osho_gg · · Score: 1

      Finally the only guy who can see this right. Again, if hardware is becoming commodity and software is what distinguishes you from your competitor, it DOES not make sense to open source.

      I am surprised at the tone of the question itself. The question asked was "How to convince management to open source?". I think the question should have been "Does it make sense to open source?".

      I think you need to seriously re-evaluate your reasons for being convinced that going open-source is the right thing for your business.

    2. Re:Don't release it as open-source by MrResistor · · Score: 1

      My thoughts exactly: why would you?

      Why do people think that just because they're building a solution on top of an OSS platform their whole solution has to be OSS? IBM and Oracle certainly don't feel that way, and there's no reason you should either.

      You need to ask yourself: if the hardware and software are both commodities, what are we selling? If you have a compelling answer to that, then that's what you tell your boss. If not, drop it; it's a stupid idea.

      --
      Under capitalism man exploits man. Under communism it's the other way around.
  15. You can't by Cranx · · Score: 3, Insightful

    If you sell common hardware, the only two ways you can really make money are on support and software sales. Opening your code source will only serve to generate competition when other vendors take your source code and start offering their services for a lower price. Then you're back to square one: the software becomes a commodity and you can only make money on support. Which, by the way, the OSS community also strives to make freely available on the internet.

    Don't listen to these wieners. Keep your code closed and keep your company in the black.

    1. Re:You can't by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Which, by the way, the OSS community also strives to make freely available on the internet.

      But not very successfully. Sometimes you get good, free support on a email list. Often, you don't. Most often, you do... up to a point. Paid for support can be worth it.

    2. Re:You can't by Cranx · · Score: 1

      True, but they try.

  16. Re:Easy: Its the people.(GPL question) by Captn+Pepe · · Score: 1

    For instance, you can do anything you like with Linux in the comfort of your own home, so long as you don't distribute the result. But distribution can become a thorny issue if you're careless, and as a result the GPL offers relatively weak protection of your company's super-secret algorithms. After all, anyone who *legally* acquires part of the code, now has full GPL rights to the whole thing, tasty bits included.

    Of course, this is only very slightly less protection than, say, trade secret law offers. In either case, the rule of thumb is to keep your secrets secret.

    Companies do occasionally get stung by this when they fail to realize that they are actually "distributing" code. Witness Linksys, which was forced to give away its changes to the Linux kernel, probably because it simply never occurred to the developers that selling a device constituted "distribution" of the image in the firmware. The poster's company (or its customers) could conceivably run into the same problem down the line by selling POS units with the customized GPLed drivers installed.

    Compare to TiVo, which had the sense to put the interesting code in separate executables that don't derive from anything GPLed.

    --

    Quantum mechanics: the dreams that stuff is made of.
  17. reduced barrier to entry by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    no text.

  18. As an opportunity to sell support contracts! by Quixotic+Raindrop · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Sure ... your code is open source, and any capable and willing Tom, Dick, or Jane can hack it and support themselves. You wrote it, so you (in theory, anyway) know how it works, how it fits together, and besides, selling and renewing support contracts is a much smarter way to make money than selling software. Work the support angle and try to get some marketing wonk to give you some marketing-speak to back it up.

    --
    Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. (Einstein)
  19. Re:Easy: Its the people.(GPL question) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    How does GPL treat for-pay customized code in terms of what must be released in the open to the public vs. can be kept closed and confidential?

    You don't have to release it to the public (if there is an NDA in place, for example), but you do have to release it to the customer.

    If a customer pays to add highly proprietary features added to a GPL codebase, does GPL force the release of that code?

    Only to the customer.

    Can a company that is using GPL code contract with its contirbuting development community to make closed-source customizations of GPL code under an NDA?

    Yes.

    If the customer with the customized GPL-derived code then sells that software to their customers or franchisees, does that force the release of the code?

    Yes.

    Your questions are covered by the GPL FAQ

  20. Forgot to add.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If you're one of the developers in this hypothetical scenario, you'd be wise to convince the customer that keeping the changes under NDA will harm them in the long run.

    By keeping the changes to themselves, they're essentially making their own fork. Now in general, forks of GPL'ed software is OK, because each set of developers has access to each others' work, and eventually the forks will merge.

    In the case of one of the forks being closed (under NDA), you're essentially closing yourself off from the rest of the development, because if you want to keep the software up to date, you have to work harder and harder as the code bases diverge more and more.

  21. Re:Easy: Its the people.(GPL question) by shaitand · · Score: 1

    This was almost answered correctly.

    1. Unless they have the copyright for contributions assigned back to them, EVEN the maintainer does NOT have the right to relicense the contributions under a different license. So that means licensing the software to the customer under the GPL. Or requiring developers assign copyrights back to the maintainer. If they do that, there is no reason you can't use the codebase on which you hold the copyright to make derivatives and license under ANY license.

    2. If you do use the GPL to license to the customer (which has the benefit of less overhead in time and money, and more developers willing to work on your project), then you have to give the customer the source, and the customer has to give the source to anyone they distribute the program to. Niether the customer or you have to give the source to anyone you do not distribute binaries to however.

    Also good to note, when you are required to give the source, you either have to give prominent information on where this can be gotten or you have to give machine readable source directly. YOU CANNOT MERELY GIVE THEM THE PUBLIC SOURCE, YOUR CHANGES MUST BE INCLUDED.

  22. Re:Easy: Its the people.(GPL question) by stevey · · Score: 1

    Whilst this has been answered in terms of the GPL already it's worth remembering that as the author of some software you're entirely free to dual license it.

    So people may have the GPL version for free, and customers can be given an enhanced version which is non-GPLd, either in source form or just installed as binaries.

    I worked for a company that successfully managed to sell contracts of a "supported" and enhanced piece of GPL'd software they wrote.

  23. Food labeling? by ron_ivi · · Score: 1
    How about saying that it's like listing the ingrediants in food. "All organic" "open source" have similar user-friendly branding aspects. Both let the end users know more about the product.

    Not sure if I'm kidding or not.

  24. Dont worry about the code. by jellomizer · · Score: 1
    What most people are concerns are the following.
    • Does it do what I want?
    • How much does it cost?
    • How well is it supported?

    The reason that a lot of people shy away from Free software is the fact that they are worried about it not being well supported. Which means regular updates, someone to contact in case of a problem, and an expedient repair to their problems. So if you are selling Free Software then be sure to emphasize the support aspect of it and what it does. People need to feel comfortable with their products.
    --
    If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
  25. Re:Easy: Its the people.(GPL question) by miyako · · Score: 1

    depends on the situation. If company A creates software Foo and releases it under the GPL, nothing says they are not free to release that same code under any other license as well (though anyone who got the code under the GPL can still distribute it under the GPL). This also means that the company could release Foo under the GPL while releasing a version with additional features under some other license.
    The problem can be in situations where A releases Foo under the GPL, then B submits a patch to Foo wich makes it into the codebase, A can no longer release Foo under any other license than the GPL unless B where to assign the copyright to A.
    Fruthermore, if A distributes Foo to company C, then C can do whatever they want with the codebase and keep it in-house without distributing it. If they distribute it, then they must do so under the GPL or buy an alternate license from A (assuming both that A is willing to offer an alternate license and that they own copyright to the entire codebase).

    --
    Famous Last Words: "hmm...wikipedia says it's edible"
  26. Lock-in and switching costs by rm007 · · Score: 1

    Lock-in and switching costs are another aspect of the purchase decision that are worth considering. Whenever you buy a new system of any sort, there are costs to switching from whatever you are using now and risks of being locked-in to the vendor that can increases the buyer's long-term costs. While your company wants to make money down the line with service and support, by going the open source route, your company would be reducing the buyers' future lock-in costs (and therefore current switching costs) which should increase current sales. It creates the relationships on which to build the future support business. Sure with open source there is less certainty that they will go with you for support, but your foot is in the door and if your products and support are good enough, the relationship should be strong enough to win that future business.

    --


    I've finally got around to changing my sig
  27. The Slashdot Business Plan by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Ahhh, the incredible Slashdot Business Plan at work again:
    1. Take money-generating, competitive-advantage, one-of-its-kind software
    2. Open Source it so the competition can have it
    3. NO MORE (or much less) PROFIT!
    Seriously, if you have this incredible competitive advantage, you *don't* want to Open Source it. Sad but true. I'm a big supporter of OSS, but I don't think everything under the sun should be Open Sourced.
    Some people here suggest that selling support and services might be a better way of doing business than selling the software itself. While in the ./ credo this is true (and yes, IBM pulls this off in some markets), what they fail to grasp is that the current situation makes profits for the company as it is. Switching from a lucrative business model to something different because IBM does it in a different market will not interest the MBAs too much.
    And, out of curiosity, does IBM Open Source their Point Of Sale solutions? They certainly sell a lot of them...

  28. Re:Easy: Its the people.(GPL question) by moquist · · Score: 1

    > The GPL requires release of the code only to the
    > customer who pays you for it.

    Totally wrong.

    Payment has nothing to do with it.

    Here is the beginning of section 3 of the GPL:
    -----
    3. You may copy and distribute the Program (or a work based on it, under Section 2) in object code or executable form under the terms of Sections 1 and 2 above provided that you also do one of the following:

    * a) Accompany it with the complete corresponding machine-readable source code, which must be distributed under the terms of Sections 1 and 2 above on a medium customarily used for software interchange; or,

    * b) Accompany it with a written offer, valid for at least three years, to give any third party, for a charge no more than your cost of physically performing source distribution, a complete machine-readable copy of the corresponding source code, to be distributed under the terms of Sections 1 and 2 above on a medium customarily used for software interchange; or,

    * c) Accompany it with the information you received as to the offer to distribute corresponding source code. (This alternative is allowed only for noncommercial distribution and only if you received the program in object code or executable form with such an offer, in accord with Subsection b above.)
    -----
    IANAL, but as I read this, the issue is simply distribution - of the executable or object-code. You can download Linux, write a new scheduler, and release only part of your scheduling code, and that's fine under the GPL until you "distribute" a binary of your modified kernel. Then you are required to release the source.

    Also, one of the replies to the parent claims that Netgear was "forced to release changes to the Linux kernel". Once again, the GPL cannot force anyone to release his/her code. The GPL is a *license*, not a contract, and it stipulates requirements for use of code licensed under it.

    If company Foo is violating the GPL by releasing modified binaries of GPL code without releasing the source, company Foo can resolve this in at least two different ways:

    1. release the source code
    2. stop using the GPL code

    If they opt for #2, it is likely they can be forced by the courts to pay a fee to the copyright holder (which is frequently the FSF).

    The GPL is *not* enforceably viral - violators can always choose option #2.

  29. Re:Easy: Its the people.(GPL question) by mabhatter654 · · Score: 1
    for device driver type cases, the easist thing to do is "bury" the source on the OEM CD right from the start. Sure it will get out eventually, but you won't have the pundits crying publically about it.

    After all, you only have to release source to those who you give programs too. In the case of hardware, use the OEM CD to fufill your GPL obligation and get it over with...then you won't show up here and those who want source will have it ...and never complain..get it. Also, password protect your downloads to limit them to registered hardware users. That way you're not "distributing" the drivers on line, only providing updates to your customers.

    remember, your business is selling devices, not software...that's just a service. The trap many "hardware" vendors have fallen into lately is trying to sell $20 plastic hardware for inflated prices by locking up the drivers...it's a dead business model, you gotta adapt!