Slashdot Mirror
The Future of RPN Calculators
Noksagt writes "HP's recent release of the 33s won't be the last RPN calculator. Former HPers at Hydrix are hyping an impressive Linux-based PDA/calculator, named Qonos. They have a survey up regarding features, etc. More information can be found at comp.sys.hp48 or The Museum of HP Calculators.
A new open hardware project called OpenRPN has also begun. Their mission is to produce horizontal and vertical format scientific RPN calcs and later a graphing calc."
HP calculators might be more competitive today if Carly hadn't decided that it would be a really good idea to dump the HP calculator engineering team to "save money".
May we never see th
...is to be a teeny-tiny niche market, like Linux handhelds (compare and contrast: Number of Zauruses sold vs. number of iPaqs sold).
The Masses don't understand RPN, don't understand why anyone would want to use a "backwards" syntax, and aren't interested in listening to us nerds when we explain the very real benefits of grokking stack-based systems.
Honey, I shrunk the Cygwin
Seriously, why are we worried about the "future" of inconvenient input formats?
How is RPN inconvenient? Sure, it requires a change of thinking initially, but the gains are traditionally a lot more than the initial effort required. Even just in my limited use of RPN in a college environment, I have seen the benefits as far as speed and yes, convenience.
In one of my recent math classes, the instructor spent 20 minutes helping people to enter a semi-complex formula with parenthetical notation. With RPN, I didn't have to deal with messy parenthesis, I just got the work done. As an added bonus, I got to spend those 20 minutes practicing my written Chinese. :)
"Wow, you're like some kind of superhero able to ward off happiness and success at every turn."
-- Ryan Stiles
On the other hand, RPN does inspire near-religious devotion in some, especially those who used the early HP calculators back in the 70's. My engineer dad would have killed for one of those back in '74 or so, but they were too expensive at the time.
Have you read my blog lately?
From the OpenRPN Project Website
Here is a short list of some planned features:
*Philips LMC210x ARM7 CPU
*Flashable ROM
*MMC/SD expansion card support
*20 digit accuracy
*USB connectivity
*Several forms of I/O
*3"x5" PCB for internal expansions/modules
*Hi-Resolution LCDs
*All aluminum watertight body
*Molded-through keytops (customized sets will come standard)
*High-durability anodized finish
*Customizable keyboard overlays
*Positive tactile keys
*Reverse RPL compatability
*A nice thick manual
This sounds just like the PDA I would Love to have which is of course the point here.
My single question is one of integration in that I do not want to carry a full-featured Calculator and a PDA I just want the PDA itself yet with this awesome calculator function integrated. Where does the line exist anymore between PDAs and Calculators especially Linux powered devices?
I have a theory that the truth is never told during the nine-to-five hours. -- Hunter S. Thompson
Especially knowing that the calculator division was self-funded, and one of the most profitable in HP... It was just too small a profit overall, and TI is crushing HP in terms of sales. Carly's motto was "we're only staying in business where we're the first"... Was hasn't she dumped PCs then? :-P
RPN is NOT inconvenient if you get used to it.
I actually prefer RPN.
Calling atheism and agnosticism a religion is like calling bald a hair color.
they need to fix those buttons. I mean, the old style buttons on the 32SII and the 48GX rocked. Why, or why did they ever have to change to those evil plastic buttons? Was this a cost-saving thing, or just a tatic to make sure the calcuators died out?
My UID is prime and so is this number: 09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0.
I don't want my calculator to be my PDA. I have a PDA for that. They're different devices with different interfaces and should be used for different things. I put an RPN calculator on my Palm and, although I can use it, it's awkward and clunky. I use it only when I have no other choice.
I don't want a graphing calculator. I like my one line of text. If I need to graph anything, then I'm probably doing it for a complicated reason, and I'll fire up Matlab or Origin at my desktop. My calculator is for, just that, calculating.
The website brags that this thing has a whole month of battery life in it's low-power mode. Big fricking deal. I bought my HP in about 1990. I have replaced the batteries in it exactly ONCE. There's nothing more useless than a calculator that you've picked up and realized you forgot to plug it in last night to recharge it, and it's dead.
I don't want a fold-out keyboard that's probably fairly fragile and won't last too long. I want something sturdy that will stand up to significant, continuous use for years to come.
Why can't someone just build a good calculator that does what it's supposed to, and not some calculator / PDA / laptop / Borg monstrosity?
People just freak out over RPN for no reason. I taught several college friends, none of whom were math wizards, about the joys of RPN and every one of them became hooked. RPN just seems backwards because everything is fed to us in a linear, "algebraic" way. But the fact is, RPN is actually much more intuitive once you get past the initial "wall." With RPN, you do calculations the way you would with a pencil and paper - or in your head: Break the problem into chunks so you get intermediate values, then operate on those intermediate values, and so on until you're done.
Just starting at the left and working your way to the right, all the while keeping track of parentheses is NOT intuitive. It's just familiar.
Because that calculator has already been built, and you already own it.
Thus, building it again isn't likely to be profitable.
paintball
I wouldn't worry too much about a flash calculator, either. The important things in mathematics go on in your head, and on paper. The basic arithmetic functions are jolly useful, and the trig functions (ideally including hyperbolic ones) can be quite handy, but if you can't work out the graph of a function yourself, then a calculator isn't really going to help you.
What I found helpful when learning calculus was to think of it in mechanical terms where possible. Functions and graphs can be a bit abstract, but calculus is really about rates of change, and I found that thinking in terms of speeds and accelerations tended to give me a good mental picture of what was going on, at least to start with.
Ceterum censeo subscriptionem esse delendam.
Well, real COMPUTER geeks may want a 16C (which featured convenient HEX entry, etc.). The 15C or the 42S are probably the best scientific calculators ever made.
Everyone in the Slashdot community seems so worried about the Microsoft monoculture, and yet here we are pushing linux into every possible niche. It can't be optimal to have the same OS running on both our calculators and our supercomputers.
Am I part of the core demographic for Swedish Fish?
And YET the "masses" use RPN all the time and don't realize it.
When the masses do a math problem.In other words we're presented with the numbers FIRST, then told what to do with them (ADD).
When the masses do math in their head, it's the same way. Intermmediates (mental scratch memory) is for carries.
We think RPN is dead because most people don't actually conciously THINK about what they do when they do math. This becomes even more obvious when doing a more complicated problem. Try doing the quadratic formula for example.
Bet we do that RPN with the precedence rules already memorized (remember your teacher going through those?).
So NO it's not a geek thing. It's just that geeks are more obvious about certain aspects that the masses may not be conciously aware of.
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"Sorry, but according to [the] tests [we turn on and off], you are trying to post from an open HTTP proxy."
The HP 15C may well be the ideal pocket calculator for today, when more complex calculations are done on a desktop computer. Bring Back The HP 15C