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Seeking a Decent Digital SLR Camera for Beginners?

lancomandr asks: "I'm interested in getting into digital photography. I have looked at many tutorials and buying guides but there are so many digital SLRs I have no idea which ones to even start considering. I want to be able to make decently large prints, I'd like to get a decent amount of use out of it before upgrading, I want good battery life and durability is key. All of you photographers out there, any suggestions? What did you buy when you started?"

40 of 118 comments (clear)

  1. Digital SLRs by mknewman · · Score: 3, Informative

    Try http://dpreview.com, they are the best resource around. Marc

  2. Re:Digital Rebel by Matchstick · · Score: 2, Informative

    And be sure to check out this previously posted /. article.

  3. Digital Rebel by Oz0ne · · Score: 3, Interesting

    This is the only "entry" level digital SLR. Plenty of features, low price point, excellent camera.

    You don't have all the professional features of a canon d10 or nikon d70 or higher, but you want an entry level right?

    I'd say go with canon because they've only changed their lens format once. Much better chance of being able to get good used equipment/sell your use equipment when you want to upgrade.

    I'm saving for a d10 myself.

  4. Rebel + Muvo by mythosaz · · Score: 4, Interesting

    You can get a Rebel for $900.
    You can hack it to be 10D for free.
    You can buy a $200 Muvo and swap out the 4G microdrive.

    1. Re:Rebel + Muvo by aparrish · · Score: 3, Informative

      Be careful with the Muvo drive swap. It looks like Creative is now using microdrives that only work in ATA mode. The owner of Digital Photography Review has just run into this problem recently. Here's the thread.

    2. Re:Rebel + Muvo by quake74 · · Score: 3, Insightful
      You can get a Rebel for $900.
      You can hack it to be 10D for free.

      Since this guy seems interested in photography, I 'd like to point out that NO, you DON'T get a 10D for the price of a Rebel. They have different casing and hardware (the 10D shoots more pics per sec and it's not plastic). And if he is really a beginner, he is more worrid about learning aperture/shutter/focus, rather then the most obscure function in that secondary submenu.

    3. Re:Rebel + Muvo by Bradee-oh! · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The Rebel feels like a toy. It is very cheap plastic, and the lens wobbles.

      I recently purchased a Rebel two weeks ago. I've taken roughly 1,000 pictures over the last two weeks ranging from closeup portraits, to wide-lens nature shots, to action shots of my niece's soccer game. As someone who is COMPLETELY impressed and satisfied with this wonderful camera, I must peg the parent's post as a troll.

      Yes, the Rebel has a plastic body instead of the metal body on the 10D. But it is a SOLID body. It looks plastic if you're staring at the camera from a distance. But when you are holding it and taking pictures, you can tell it isn't some cheap toy. At first I was questioning the decision to get the "plastic" model of the 10D but over the last 2 weeks, I've grown to actually prefer how lite it is compared to metal SLRs I've used in the past.

      As for the lens wobbling - No. This is wrong. If the parent had used a Rebel where the lens wobbled, either the camera or the lens was damaged or the lens wasn't properly attached to the body. The lenses are just as solid as all other Canon lenses in the EF/EF-S line, and the lense mount is as well.

      I used a friends D70 before making my decision to go with the Canon. The D70 is, in fact, a VERY nice camera. But I'm afraid I am completely satisfied with my Rebel and have zero regrets, as I think it's just a tiny bit better.

      --
      "This is Zombo Com, and welcome to you who have come to Zombo Com" - www.zombo.com
  5. Re:Canon Powershot S5 by Oz0ne · · Score: 4, Funny

    Hi. I'm Mr. Obvious.

    He asked about digital SLR's, not non-SLR.

    Thanks. You've been a great audience! I'll be here all week!

  6. I just recently bought my first dSLR by xutopia · · Score: 2, Insightful
    mind you I had experience with a normal SLR before but I recommend the Canon Digital Rebel which I myself got.

    More importantly what you need to do is read a good book on photography. I found this online tutorial particularly interesting when I first started out. I spent a year making poor shots when it dawned on me what I was doing wrong. Depth of field is sooooo important.

  7. digital rebel (or nikon d70) by the_ambient_one · · Score: 4, Informative

    I have a rebel. Battery life is awesome, and im pretty sure its just as good as the nikon. Since the sensor is only used when actually taking a picture (no live preview), and the lcd is almost always off, and the battery is large, you get hundreds of shots off a single charge.

    large prints - its 6 megapixel. And its very noise free, since the sensor is physically very large. Beats the 8mp point & shoots by a ways.

    costs a bunch tho, because youll probably want a longer zoom fairly quickly, and a large CF card (1gb or 512mb), and possibly a flash and tripod. Id budget an extra 500 to 1000$ over a rebel or d70 kit. If you go for a canon 10D you need to budget more, because it doesnt come with a lens, and theres no cheap equiv to the rebel kit lens for canon. (to get the wideangle, after the sensor crop / multipplier).

    the sensor crop / multiplier is great if you want tele, but sucky for wide. Since you need extra wide lenses. its 1.6x for canon (18mm lens ~= 28mm lens). i think its similar for nikon.

  8. Re:Digital Rebel by Tumbleweed · · Score: 4, Informative

    Incorrect, and you even mention the competition which kills it - the Nikon D70. As much as I love Canon cameras, the D70 blows away the Digital Rebel and the D10 in many respects, and is priced similarly to the Rebel.

    I'd still prefer the Canon lenses, though, and when you buy an SLR 'system,' you're really buying into a lens line as much or more than the camera body itself. There's no way I'd choose Nikon's lens line over Canon's at this point, which is too bad, because of the D70. *shrug*

  9. Forget digital, your definition wants film by Mycroft_514 · · Score: 2, Informative

    When digital gets to 10MP, then try experimenting with digital SLRs, in the meantime forget it.

    That's assuming that by decent size prints you mean 8x10 or larger.

    A good all manual SLR (yes there are some around, especially used ones, which will save you lots of money) will last for YEARS on one set of batteries (my Dad went 22 years on one battery a while back, my best is only 12 years on 1 battery).

    Plus, lenses can be had cheap by all the people bailing out of film who don't know any better. If you chose the right system to go with, you can take those lenses forward to digital later too. (Nikon and Canon come to mind, but I think Pentax as well). Or any T-mount lens can be brought forward.

    1. Re:Forget digital, your definition wants film by Y+Ddraig+Goch · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I agree. If cost is a concern then invest a little money in b/w bulk loading equipment. B/W processing is simple and inexpensive, for the most part you can all the film darkroom work in a changing bag. Invest in a film scanner, they start at around $250 US and a decent printer. Learn the basics, and do it the old fasioned way. It may seem like a longer road but you will be happier with the results in the end.

      --
      Meddle thou not in the affairs of Dragons, for thou art crunchy and with most anything.
    2. Re:Forget digital, your definition wants film by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I shoot mostly copy work (paintings), using EPY film (the Kodak tungsten whatever it's called). Medium format and 35mm.

      I have mostly switched to the Canon dSLRs because pictures the Canon dRebel/10D (6MP) are generally much better than 35mm. Color is similar, sharpness is a bit worst, but the lack of GRAIN blows me away. You can see it the slide with a loupe, ugly GRAIN all over the place. 6MP was the magic number for me.

      People who say film is better than 5-8MP complete confound me. When I open a magazine I can immediately spot the 35mm film grain in the skies.

      For my purposes, a good 6MP with a good lense is equivalent to most 35mm film (to replace Fuji Velvia maybe you should go to 8MP). Anything above that is just so you can make small crops.

      Let go dude.. 35mm has sucked for a long time. Even the canister with the dangly film is annoying.

      However I do agree that *learning* on an all-manual SLR is a good experience, but that's up to him.

    3. Re:Forget digital, your definition wants film by daviddennis · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I think it depends on the kind of photography you do. If you're shooting images such as landscapes with huge amounts of detail, then go ahead and buy a film camera and pay through the nose for film, developing and printing.

      But if you're like me and enjoy the sheer act of taking a lot of pictures, that kind of approach would bankrupt you. I love my Canon EOS D30 3.5mp digital SLR because I can take as many pictures as I want without worrying about the cost. In my first year of ownership, I took over 7,500 shots - which would have probably cost more than my digital SLR to make and print - and I paid $3,300 for it.

      I didn't print many of my images until I bought a HP Color LaserJet 3500, which made it inexpensive to do so. Now I've made maybe 100 prints, all of which look beautiful, even 8x10s from my 3.5mp camera. You're going to say that you'd get better detail and finer resolution and glossier prints with an photo inkjet, and you're right -- but how many photos will you print out at $2 per page?

      In other words, there's a quantity versus quality question. The more pictures you can take, the more you'll learn and the better you'll get. If you're restricted by budgetary limitations, you'll wish you got your digital SLR.

      D

  10. I Second the Rebel... by Delsphynx · · Score: 3, Informative

    I own a Rebel myself and it really is a great camera. DPreview is a good place to read the reviews and check out the forums. You might see a lot of people complaining and such about not having some advanced features and the like. For me personally, I bought this to learn with and understand more about photography, and so far some of those advanced features I have not really required. There may be a point where I do, however, for now, this camera has everything that I want. Plus, with firmware hacks, that can even be changed. The thing to remember is that after you start getting in to lenses, which Canon has a great reputation for, then switching the body becomes somewhat more trivial since you will not have to have switching costs as you will be able to utilize those lenses again and again (unless you completely jump ship and switch everything). I myself will be very unlikely to do that because the camera is great, lenses are great, and you know that Canon is going to continue to put out high-quality stuff (not saying Nikon or anyone else isn't...) Just my .02

  11. Re:HP 945 by LWATCDR · · Score: 3, Insightful

    "You can get the attachments for lenses and such, but digital SLR cameras dont need that stuff... anyone who says more lenses make a digital camera better is stupid."

    Ummm wrong. It depends on what you want to do with the camera. If you want to just take snaps of your kids birthday party then you can get away with just a standard digital. Tell you what to out and try to take a picture of Saturn with your simple digital and tell me that it is as good as a telescope with a camera adapter? How about taking a picture of a bird sitting on a branch 100 yards away? Want to take a picture of an ant on a flower? There is a reason that proffesionals use SLRs or sometimes even medium format camera.
    The optics that the light passes through make a BIG difference in the quality of the picture.
    As to a digital camera being just as you put it "a light capturing computer". Cannon has been making light capturing computers for years and do a very good job. I am sure the HP 945 is a good point a shoot camera but it is not in as flexiable as an SLR.

    --
    See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
  12. Re:Canon Powershot S5 by Delsphynx · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Actually, RAW is one of the biggest benefits to shooting digital. I think you will see where most people who want to have a digital SLR want to be a little more serious than just point and shoot, and will use tools like Photoshop CS. If you are shooting with a digital SLR, some post-processing is really needed (hence why it isn't considered a point-and-shoot). Post-processing with Photoshop and a RAW image file gives so much more flexibility in what you do with the image (exposure, white balance, and on and on) that you would be surprised...

  13. There are no entry level digital SLRs. by gmiller123456 · · Score: 3, Informative

    If you want an entry level digital camera, you're going to have to stick with point and shoot type camera.

    As everyone else has pointed out, the Digital Rebel is the cheapest digital SLR, but at $900 it's not exactly what you'd call entry level. I have the 10D, and I know several people that have the Rebel, and for the money, the Rebel wins hands down. So, if you're going to get one, get the Rebel, and put some money into some really nice lenses. Don't plan on upgrading any time soon, the Rebel hasn't dropped in price since it's been out, and the 10D has actually gone up in price. For a while the 10D couldn't be found anywhere, every place was out of stock.

    Also note, with the Rebel, it's a very popular camera. So when you have trouble figuring something out, there's a lot of people available to help. And then there's the firmware hacks, whi ch you should already know about.

  14. D70 all the way by Twirlip+of+the+Mists · · Score: 3, Informative

    The Nikon D70 and the Canon EOS-300D ("digital rebel"; whatever, Canon) are pretty comparable camera bodies, but the kicker is the lens. You can buy either one with a bundled lens; the 300D comes with a crappy lens, while the D70 comes with a very respectable lens.

    Definitely get the D70. If you get the 300D and find you enjoy photography, you'll want to replace it in a year or two. If you get the D70 and find you enjoy photography, you'll be happy with it for much longer.

    And because the D70 is newer, the resale price will be better if you decide to bail out.

    --

    I write in my journal
  15. SLR by frantzdb · · Score: 3, Insightful

    You may not need an SLR. You can get fully-manual digital cameras for less than half the price that take great pictures. I've been very happy with my Canon G3 (4MP). I haven't touched my analog SLR since. I will get a DSLR eventually, but as an amature, it just doesn't make sense at the moment.

  16. Why digital? by Txiasaeia · · Score: 3, Insightful
    I may be wrong, but it sounds like you don't have a lot of experience with photography. That's okay, but before leaping into the $1000+ world that is DSLR, may I suggest trying out a film SLR first? You can get a Nikon N75 or Canon EOS Rebel for 1/4 of the price, and if you decide to stick to the brand (YMMV, my experience is with Nikon) you can take the lenses you buy for your film SLR and use them on your digital one. Then, if you really want to get these prints in digital, develop your film at Walmart (or wherever) and pay the extra $2 to get the prints on CD.

    The digital market is still relatively new, and big camera companies have DSLR prices pretty high in order to recoup R&D costs. Film cameras have been around for the better part of the 20th century and are tried and true.

    Also, when you upgrade to a digital SLR in a few years, you can keep the film one around just in case. One more thing to keep in mind: some old school cameras (Nikon FM3A, older models) can be used without a battery, so battery life is not an issue. Good luck!

    --
    Condemnant quod non intellegunt.
    1. Re:Why digital? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Ah, but digital makes the learning process so much faster. Take a shot - look at it. Don't like? Take another. Want to play with Depth of Field or shutter speed? Take 10 shots, 10 different ways. Review results.

      Yes, you can print your results at Costco in an hour, but what if you are sitting in your hotel room on vacation and want to see what you did today? "Did that waterfall shot come out?" If not, I can take another one tomorrow - while I'm still on vacation. Once I get home, I'm not getting back to Hawaii for at least 6 months.

      While digitals have a (much) higher up front cost, most people don't think about the sunk cost. With film they think, "Jeez, I only have 36 shots on this roll. Then I have to pay for developing them." With digital, you get unlimited shots with no incremental cost. This encourages people to take lots of experimental and iffy shots, because the have nothing to lose.

  17. Re:Digital Rebel by Incongruity · · Score: 3, Informative

    FWIW, I've even talked to a couple of photographers that shoot for the Chicago Sun Times (or was it the Chicago Tribune?) and they swear by the Nikon D70, even over a D10 (and far and away above the Digital Rebel).

    Sure, the price is a bit high for an entry SLR, but not, in my opinon, for a entry *digital* SLR, at this point in time. If you want to be on the hot technology side of life, you do end up paying a bit of a premium...but to get what the poster wants, that is an SLR that is full-featured and won't need to be exchanged for a better model soon, the D70 is the clear choice.

  18. A few options... by ezraekman · · Score: 5, Informative

    "SLR" stands for Single Lens Reflex. This means that light passes through the lens, off a mirror and/or CCD, and into your eye. It means that there is no parralax error due to you and the camera seeing your subject from different angles. It doesn't necessarily mean you have the ability to change lenses, nor does it mean it's a "professional grade" camera. It doesn't even have to be much more complicated than your average point-and-shoot, though I'm assuming you want to be able to grow as you learn.

    In the lower class of Digital SLR bodies with interchangeable lenses, you've got the Nikon D70 and D100, the Canon Digital Rebel, and a few cameras by Sigma and Fuji. These cameras (bodies with interchangeable lenses) will allow you the most flexibility, options, and quality. However, they are also much more expensive, starting at about the $1000 mark. For the moment, I'll assume this is the area you're looking at.

    First off, the Canon Digital Rebel is not the only camera in its class. Nikon just released the D70, which seems to kick the Rebel's ass. I spoke to Nikon Digital Support (800-645-6689), and they said the memory buffer was so fast that you could pretty much keep shooting continuously until you ran out of space. Compared to older models that would only do "burst mode" for up to five seconds, that's quite a feat. The D70 is only about 3 frames/second, but the D2H can do 8 frames/second for five seconds before the buffer gets full. Of course, the D2H is about $3K, but I can dream. ;-)

    Second, you are not limited to (and may not want) a camera with interchangable lenses. The Nikon Coolpix 5700 and 8700 are pretty decent (the latter being 8 megapixels!), and the Canon PowerShot Pro1, G5, and S1 are also options. One definite advantage the cameras without interchangable lenses have is that they are going to be much smaller and lighter.

    As per several recommendations already posted, definitely check out DPReview. Great site, lots of info, full testing, sample shots, menus and interfaces, etc. Think about what your priorities are. How high of a resolution do you need? 6 megapixels is plenty for an 8x10. (4 can actually get you by.) If you aren't printing anything larger than that, you're fine. Do you care if there's a proprietary battery, or do you need the flexibility of "standard"-sized batteries? (AA, AAA, etc.) Do you have a preference for media type? (I prefer CompactFlash, as it tends to give the best cost/size ratio, and the card size options are larger.) Do you need lens interchangeability? Do you want it? Regardless of what you want *right now*, where do you want to take your photography eventually? Make sure your camera choice now will not limit your goals later.

    Personally, I'd lean more towards the larger SLR bodies with interchangeable lenses. They're bigger, heavier, and *can be* more expensive... though this is by no means true any more. However, the options you have are incredible. Of course, you may well just be leaving the camera in automatic mode all the time, which makes those options useless, overpriced oversized, etc. However, if you *want* those options later... you may not have to "upgrade" anything other than your lens options. Now that

    1. Re:A few options... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative
      "SLR" stands for Single Lens Reflex. This means that light passes through the lens, off a mirror and/or CCD, and into your eye. It means that there is no parralax error due to you and the camera seeing your subject from different angles. It doesn't necessarily mean you have the ability to change lenses, nor does it mean it's a "professional grade" camera.

      It's also worth noting that most digital cameras avoid the paralax problem without being SLR. The LCD display shows you the same image that the CCD is receiving.

      Of course, not all digital cameras have LCD displays, and there are times when you really don't want to use one. If you are looking through a viewfinder, then an SLR is the only way to avoid paralax issues.

    2. Re:A few options... by ffsnjb · · Score: 2, Informative

      Of course, not all digital cameras have LCD displays, and there are times when you really don't want to use one. If you are looking through a viewfinder, then an SLR is the only way to avoid paralax issues.

      The Kodak DX6490 uses both a large LCD for normal DigiCam use and a much smaller LCD in the viewfinder instead of an optical viewfinder to eliminate parallax issues while still maintaining a viewfinder and an LCD.

      --
      "Why do you consent to live in ignorance and fear?" - Bad Religion
  19. Re:Digital Rebel by lindsayt · · Score: 2, Insightful

    There's a big difference between "I'm into cameras" and a serious photography enthusiast. Whereas a digicam may be great fun, it's not a serious tool, and the poster sounds like she or he is looking for a serious tool - a basic one, but a serious tool nonetheless.

    Just as any serious photographer would not consider getting a point-and-click film camera, serious photographers aren't interested in toy digital cameras either. I think it's safe to say this person needs an SLR.

    * that's not to say there's anything wrong with toy cameras - they cause less trouble at airports and are just fine for sightseeing pictures. I intend to get one of the canon toy digitals myself soon. So don't be offended by my characterization of them as toys - we all like toys!

    --
    I did not design this game/I did not name the stakes/I just happen to like apples/And I am not afraid of snakes-AniD
  20. Rebel Kit Lens is a good value by Murrow · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I have a DR and love it.

    The kit lens adds $100 to the retail price of the camera (body alone lists for $900) and you can't come anywhere near as wide a lens as the 18mm-55mm (times 1.6 crop factor = 28-88 effective field of view) for anywhere near that price for either system. It's not available outside of the kit except from scalpers on EBay.

    The thing I love most about the DR is that it takes a picture immediately when I press the shutter button. Every other digicam I've used has had a second or longer delay after pressing the button. This makes a huge difference. (I assume that the other DSLRs we're discussing also perform this way and that the alternate non SLRs do not).

    With the hacked firmware, the DR is very close featurewise to the Canon 10D. But, most of the added features are pretty esoteric. I wouldn't flash your camera until you need one of the additions (I haven't flashed mine).

    One other exercise to try: Compare prices of the various full kits you're considering. Include whatever (if any) extra batteries, extra lenses, a flash, etc that you want. Canon lenses are supposed to be somewhat less expensive than the Nikon versions.

    Finally, find and play with each of the camera's you're considering. Find out which one feels best in your hands, which one has the buttons in a logical place, etc.

  21. Read a little bit. by davidbro · · Score: 2, Informative
    Go to this page:

    http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech.htm

    He does a good job of telling you what really matters. If he has a bias, it's towards Nikon. BUt that's beside the point. His focus is photography, digital or film.

    And I'm pretty sure that if you asked him, he'd point you towards the Nikon D70.

    Of course, the hackability of the Canon 300 is pretty tempting, but it's not really the point. You can take fantastic pictures with an SLR or a point and shoot. Those extra features aren't going to make your pictures better. Shooting a lot of pictures and honestly evaluating them is what makes your pictures better.

  22. So, she shoots weddings, so what? by Mycroft_514 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I've done that, and I have a truely bueatiful 20x30 hanging over my fireplace - shot with film. Detail is in it that you can't capture with digital. The reflections in the water of the railing, for example.

    For example: I have an 8x10 on the wall next to me. (Film based print). I scanned that image at about 5MP a while back and it is a great shot. However, I noticed some small blobs on the one edge. Since it is an underwater shot, I assumed backscatter. Later, I had the film 8x10 printed. Not backscatter at all! A school of tiny fish is plainly visible in the print.

    I also had a shot optioned for printing by a national magazine. At 5mp, it could not be scanned. It would only show a bunch of colored blobs. The subject? The Space shuttle Columbia - night launch, lit only by the flames. (At 8x10, the orbiter is about 3 inches tall, along the 10 axis. The full shuttle about 6 inches tall.)

    I once ran into a "professional" photographer doing an ad shoot. She asked if she could borrow a 24mm lens from me. I said well, you would have to use my spare body and flash as well, due to lens mounting differences. She declined, because she didn't know how to use a manual flash - but she was a professional!

    So, your wife's customers may be happy, but that doesn't mean that the shots are great.

  23. Re:Digital Rebel by Gaijin42 · · Score: 4, Informative

    THe biggest difference I see between digicams and DSLRs is control.

    In addition to the plethora of lenses out there, the SLRs give you much more control over the actual photographic process. Shutter speed, Apeture, Whitebalance, ISO etc. Yes many of these options can be set on a higher end digicam (a cheaper one will not let you set apeture or shutter) However, the EASE of setting these options is much different.

    With my D70, I can control almost all camera settings, while my eye is still in the viewfinder. I can totally reconfigure the camera in a matter of seconds.

    In a digicam, you have to scroll through several menus to get the options shot.

    I recently took photographs at a local community theatre, during a live performance. (I was hired to be the photographer, I wasn't sneaking)

    They didn't want flash, so the lighting was VERY low.

    In order to get good shots, I had to use a slow shutterspeed, at a wide apeture, at very high ISO. This totally wrecked any of the faster scenes (especially dancing) due to blur.

    With the D70 masterwheel, I could VERY quickly switch my shutter speed to give me the right shot as the scene changed. Dialog, I would go slower, and get more detail and light. Dance, I would speed it up, and get the action. These shots would be impossible on digicam.

    One other big difference is lenses. Not just the interchangability (which is huge, but if you get a superzoom (28-300 or something like that) you wont be changing very much (at the cost of some quality). But also the size. Remember, photography is recording light. The bigger your lens, the more light, which means more detail, more color etc.

    A point and shoot has a tiny lens. A Tiny apeture, even wide open.

  24. From somone who just went through this, advice by Alan · · Score: 3, Informative

    First of all, do you have any experience in photography? If so, have you ever had a film SLR, or point and shoot?

    I'm a big one for learning things the hard way first. You can pick up a used 35mm SLR for next to nothing and you can learn how to be a good photographer far easier than you can (IMHO) with a digital camera. A lot of times people forget that photography is about taking good pictures, NOT playing with cool toys on the computer.

    It's pretty cool to be able to instantly see how the image will turn out, pop it into the gimp or photoshop, adjust the color/balance/shadows/levels, etc, but having to wait a week to finish up a roll of film, get it back from processing, and having to imagine what the image will look like when you take it will make you a much better photographer. The key to taking pictures that aren't 'snapshots' is to be able to know what it will look like before you take the picture. Digital takes this away from the end user a bit and you end up just taking pictures of everything and ending up with 99.9% crap.

    end rant :)

    Regarding the purchase of the d-slr, if you have any existing lenses the choice is pretty clear. The D-Rebel takes any canon EOS lense, and you have a wide variety of choices for lenses (including image stabalized lenses). The nikon D70 takes any nikon lenses. The *ist-d will take any pentax K/KA mount lense.

    If you have no lenses then it's a matter of what system you like (remember the body is a throwaway, you'll be investing in lenses if you get into it and will upgrade to a better model eventually and you will keep on using your lenses. If you're budget minded you probably will be looking at the d-rebel and you can eventually upgrade to the next step up. If your budget is a bit bigger you can look at the nikon or the pentax.

    When I went through this I ended up buying the pentax *ist-d, at about twice the cost of the d-rebel. It's the smallest d-slr out there, and is light and fits in my hands nicely. It's more comparable with the canon 10d from what I understand, and having several pentax lenses already made the choice a bit easier. Of course, now I'm looking at buying more lenses to replace my older manual lenses, but that's the nature of expensive hobbies like photography and computers :)

    One of the best pieces of advice I got about choosing a d-slr was to find something you're comfortable with. If it's too big or too small, or the menu or controls aren't intuitive or easy to use, you won't use it as much, it won't be taken with you everywhere, and will end up collecting dust. If you can spend more *with reason*, do. Don't (IMHO) settle for say, the d-rebel if it feels too big in your hands, or if you're going to do sports photography and need the bigger buffer in the d-70.

    Remember, you'll be saving your money for lenses :)

  25. Nikon D70 vs. Canon EOS 300D by Dixie_Flatline · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Here's a great review/comparison of the two cameras.

    http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikond70/page20. as p

    The 300D is more commonly known as the rebel.

    Pick the D70 if you want
    1) A wide array of old lenses to choose from. (And I've heard that it's often more important to pick your lens than pick the body)
    2) To take a lot of consecutive photographs. With our D70, we can take pictures at 1fps until the card fills - we aren't bound by the buffer like the Canons are. This is true for both compressed and RAW photos. (You need to make sure your memory card is fast, though.)
    3) A lot of other things that I'm not going to list off the top of my head. :)

    Either of those cameras is good, though. At my skill level (and possibly at your skill level, given the way you asked your question) it's hard to go wrong with either of these cameras.

  26. Re:Digital Rebel by Murrow · · Score: 2, Informative

    I'm still surprised that Canon's D10 (and even the new Mark II version of it, I think), has no spot meter.

    I think you're mistaken. My DR has a little "*" button on the back that is for spot metering. Now, you need to change the focus mode from it's 7-point mode to single (center) point mode to get what you're expecting, but it then acts "properly" (even when using the flash). My old film SLR was an EOS 650 circa '87 so I got very good at the center the camera on the subject, push the shutter down half way to focus, hit the "*" button to spot meter, recompose shot as desired, and finish pressing the shutter dance.

    I've shot 1800 shots in 8 months of owning my DR. Most are of my 7 month old son. It's just priceless to have that many shots of him as he grows up. And very nice that they were at zero additional cost.

  27. Re:HP 945 by mr3038 · · Score: 2, Informative
    They went for a CMOS for the Rebel;

    That's true. CMOS is also used in Canon EOS-1Ds, Canon EOS-1D which are the digital SLRs for pro users.

    They're cheap to make, but even a good CMOS has significantly poorer sensitivity than a good CCD; hence you tend to get more noise.

    I must get some of the stuff you're smoking! First, compare test shots between Canon EOS-300D ("Digital Rebel") and Nikon D70. Also check the noise test results. I'm not saying that Nikon D70 is a bad camera, the other way around. It's just that Canon CMOS cameras have from the start had less noise than most CCD cameras. CMOS technology has better battery life but usually slower burst shooting. I think that D70 has a bit better lens than the one that's bundled with 300D. One can get better lenses for a SLR, of course, but it needs to be taken into the consideration while you're comparing the features and price.

    I still think that a second hand Powershoot G3 or G4 would be a better choice for a beginner. It's much cheaper and even G3 is far from a bad camera. By the time you've learned to shoot great pictures, the price of the entry level (or a bit higher) SLRs have dropped much more than the value of your second hand camera. Spend the money on a larger CF card and possibly to a good flash system instead (Note that investing on flash has vendor-lock effect as TTL systems usually require that the camera body and the flash system are from the same manufacturer).

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  28. The D70 IS sub-$1000 by ezraekman · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The "More" you get includes an 18-70mm (roughly equivalent to 35-100mm due to the size difference from 35mm that the CCD is) ED lens. Thus, you pay more for a "kit" than for the base camera body. Here is the D70 body alone, and as you can see it's only $999. (About $99 more than the Digital Rebel.)

    The thing I liked about Nikon originally was that you can use almost any lens with almost any body from circa 1970 and later. However, I have since discovered (the hard way) that Nikon has intentionally engineered OUT the ability to use any manual-focus lens with the less expensive bodies. (F100 and F5 support them, D1 and D2 series do as well, but D70 and D100 do NOT.) You can still *use* the lens, but the in-camera metering system will not function unless the lens has electronics, i.e. is auto-focus.

    One item worth mentioning is that, as far as both myself and a Nikon tech could find, the only reason you might want the D100 over the D70 is that there are a few more accessories available for the D100, such as an extended battery pack that also functions as a vertical grip. However, the D70 seems like a great value (compared to everything else available), and if you don't need the other accessories (or want a cheaper lens), you can get it separately.

  29. Spend more money now, less later by Andy+Smith · · Score: 3, Informative

    I'm a Canon user so I'll talk Canon, one point at a time...

    "I'm interested in getting into digital photography."

    Getting into DSLR at the bottom of the ladder will prove expensive because you'll spend $1000 on a camera/lenses and then a few months later you'll be buying more, more, more.

    It's better to spend more to start with and get some good, non-beginner equipment that will last you for many years.

    "I have looked at many tutorials and buying guides but there are so many digital SLRs I have no idea which ones to even start considering."

    Remember that I'm only talking Canon, in which case your choice is between the Rebel/300D and the 10D.

    "I want to be able to make decently large prints"

    The 300D and 10D are both 6Mpx and will both print nicely up to A3. The 300D sensor is essentially the same as the 10D but it is produced more cheaply and there is some feeling that the image quality is slightly inferior.

    "I'd like to get a decent amount of use out of it before upgrading"

    I've used the Rebel/300D and I upgraded to the 10D within a month. I then upgraded to the 1D. I'd recommend the 10D to anyone. I wouldn't recommend the 300D. It's essentially a crippled 10D.

    "I want good battery life"

    Both the 300D and 10D will give you hundreds of shots on a single battery charge which takes a couple of hours. You can also buy a battery grip which attaches to the bottom of the camera and allows you to use two batteries.

    "durability is key"

    The 300D is fairly tough but it's plastic. The 10D is metal and tougher. The 1D is designed to survive a warzone, literally.

    "All of you photographers out there, any suggestions? What did you buy when you started?"

    In six months I've gone from a 300D with a couple of cheap lenses to a 1D with approx $8,000 of lenses.

    My recommendation, assuming you don't want to go for the 1D which is the best camera ever made, is to get a 10D with a 28-135 Image Stabilizer lens. That will cost you less than $2,000. You will almost certainly want to buy more lenses over time but you'll be happy with the 10D for several years.

    There is talk of a 10D replacement within the year but considering the mess Canon has made of the 1D Mk II my advice would be to buy what's right for you now rather than wait for "the next big thing" that may or may not be any good.

    Now you need someone to give you the same run-down on Nikon gear. Don't let anyone tell you that Canon or Nikon is considerably better than the other. Both have strengths and weaknesses.

    Briefly...

    Canon's strengths: Better telephone lenses, slightly better image quality, good resale value, usually brings next-gen tech out a good six months before other manufacturers, good support, lenses are slightly cheaper.

    Nikon's strengths: Reputedly better wide lenses, better flash system, high-end cameras are cheaper than Canon's high-end offerings.

    Canon cameras are generally used by fashion and sports photographers and more of these are switching to Canon every day.

    Nikon cameras are generally used by photojournalists but Canon is becoming much more prevalent in this area nowadays.

    If you have any specific questions on Canon gear then feel free to post them in a reply to this comment and I'll answer if I can.

  30. Reviews by Webmoth · · Score: 3, Informative

    When you are looking at "reviews," don't pay any attention to the ones that have nothing bad to say about the product. This is your first indication of a vendor-sponsored review. Even with the best product, everyone (except the mfgr's marketing dept.) will find something they don't like about it, due to individual tastes and experiences.

    What I like about Digital Photography Review is that their reviews are comprehensive, they do repeatable laboratory tests using industry standards (in addition to subjective field testing), and they don't accept payments or gifts from manufacturers.

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  31. 300D/D70 fallacies by loupgarou24 · · Score: 2, Informative

    A comparison by of a hacked 300D/Rebel with D70 dpreview link

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    some fallacies from the above threads:

    noise performance : 300D/Rebel wins :it has ISO 100, D70 has a minimum ISO 200 . (also; at comparative 300DISO 200 vs D70ISO 200, the 300D is rated more like ISO160 )

    the only major advantage of the D70 is its CF write speed/buffer, ie: in raw mode, it can shoot at 1fps continuous until your cf card fills up. so is this advantage worth the extra money?

    flaw: D70 NEF/RAW mode is NOT lossless, it is visually lossless, but its just 9.4bits vs canon raw at 12 bits.

    d70 forum link

    NEF lossy compression

    [quote] The decoding curve is embedded in the NEF file (and could thus be changed by a firmware upgrade without having to change NEF converters), I used a D70 NEF file made available by Uwe Steinmuller of Digital Outback Photo.

    The quantization is a lossy operation, and converts 12 bits into 9.4 bits' worth of resolution (dynamic range is unchanged). This is a fairly common technique - digital telephony encodes 12 bits' worth of dynamic range in 8 bits using the so-alled A-law and mu-law codecs. I modified the program to output the data for the decoding curve (Excel-compatible CSV format), and plotted the curve (PDF) using linear and log-log scales, along with a quadratic regression fit (courtesy of R). The curve is a gamma correction curve, linear for values up to 215, then quadratic.

    In conclusion, Thom is right - there is some loss of data, mostly in the form of lowered resolution in the highlights. [/quote]