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Microsoft Changes Tune Again On SP2 Installs
KidHash writes "Following on from last months Slashdot story, it appears Microsoft has changed its tune with the BBC reporting that SP2 will not install on XP installations using the '20 most pirated product IDs.'"
What I see happening is that the 21-40 most-pirated codes rapidly displace the top-20 most-pirated codes, and everyone who cares about being up-to-date is happy with no benefit to MS. Instead, the chances they missed were:
All in all, I am somewhat surprised - an uncharacteristic faux pas.
Simon
Physicists get Hadrons!
Last month, I got hammered for taking a skeptical position about MS' attitude and motivations. What bothered me at the time was the disingenuous wording of their original announcement (not the act itself) wherein they professed concern only for the pirate users' safety.
The problem MS faces is that the reputation of their OS is gradually eroding with virus after virus and a lot of this comes from those rouge boxes that lack the securtiy patches. This puts MS in an interesting quandry: help theives or save the OS. Heh.
"...all the labours of the ages, all the devotion, all the inspiration, all the noonday brightness..." yada yada
I was under the impression that it wasn't done yet. So you're saying that an incomplete update doesn't run perfectly yet?
Thanks, Captain Obvious.
You have a pirate copy? You don't get support, patches, fixes of any kind. The people who actually paid for their version get patches and fixes, thereby gaining a benefit from having paid.
The pirates get hacked and infested with worms, viruses and the people who paid, don't. It's about time too.
Deleted
Perhaps there is another solution...
Perhaps the pirates will just get a new code.
Of course...if people really cared about security, there wouldn't be an operating system to make the Service Pack for.
While it will generate bad press, and allow many unprotected PC's to propagate worms/viruses, it's their right to withhold updates.
Unless that is, a class action law suit forces them to be responsible for their mistakes, much as car dealers are now. True it's not actually a 'safety' issue, and you don't 'own' the software like you do a car, but now that the government believes the internet is 'needed and a national issue', who knows.
Personally I think they should offer it to everyone, they aren't going to loose any revenue over it. And it makes it look to the common man ( and the government ) that they care.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
If the pirates are trying to install SP2, then they already have Windows installed. That means MS has already got their marketshare boost, and need not worry about actually supporting the pirate.
After all, do you really think all those pirates are going to say, "Darn you, Microsoft!" and go install Gentoo?
I think not.
I am wondering how many 'regular users' go out and buy a copy of Windows at the store. They retail for about $250-300, and I never see a shelf with a slot missing. Every single user that I know that has windows, got it with their computer.
So how many *retail* copies of Windows does MS sell?
It's rare that I encounter a pirated copy of Windows anymore, except on home made PCs. The funny part is, those that pirate usually have the key written on the CD. In contrast, whenever I have to reinstall at a relatives with their legitimate copy, they never can find their key.
Microsoft should just go back to the C64 days of 'What is the third word of the fifth paragraph on the fifteenth page of your EULA?'
This is, of course, assuming any printed copy of the EULA would be kept by Joe User. Estimates vary.
-- I have fans? Wow.
*sarcasm*
Does Microsoft REALLY want to alienate the 1-2 million loyal customers who are using those 20 codes?
*/sarcasm*
It doesn't sound much different to me than charging higher insurance rates to people who have multiple traffic violations or at-fault accidents, and it apparently won't affect more than... maybe... 20 legitimate customers who can pick up the phone and call Microsoft if they need to update properly licensed installations.
The only thing I'd worry about is if SP2 breaks backwards compatibility, once again using their de-facto OS monopoly to force EVERYONE to upgrade, just because they want to hurt software pirates or sell their next generation OS. That would be unfortunate and annoying.
Are there any security patches in SP2 that will NOT be released separately? If so, I'd say this is one amazingly reckless move on Microsoft's part. In the end the legit users (even non-MS customers) will bear the brunt of Net attacks by compromised machines. After all, those "Top 20" licenses must account for a large number of machines, else why bother singling them out?
Let's face it, even WITH the release of security patches its damn hard to get John Q. Public to keep up to date.
Now if SP2 is only a "features and stability" release, more power to the software vendor, MS or not. (Wow, did I just conditionally support MS' position? I need a drink...)
What the heck were you (parent) talking about? SP2 is not a Car wreck at all. I downloaded the Beta SP2 a few months back (I need windows for my Pocket PC, stupid active sync). It went flawlessly and will work wonders IMO, with auto updating in the background and such. I can't wait till this things goes to the masses. It will definitly be a good thing.
Help Fight SPAM today!
Use keygens guys! :)
Not really, there seems to be a schism within Microsoft with some feeling that cleaning up the Internet pollution caused by buggy Windows installations is good neighbourliness and also good PR and the others who want their dollars at all costs. The two parts have made conflicting announcements and it seems that now the money whores have won.
See my journal, I write things there
Because then the slashdot community will scream bloody murder, invasion of privacy, etc.. And they will probably be right. Why is this modded +5 ?
"Not to mention all the idiots who use words like boxen."
Anonymous Coward on Monday August 04, @06:49PM
Well, I guess it's time for everyone to go copy the numbers off the stickers on the floor displays at Best Buy again.
When will Windows be ready for the desktop?
I've seen a lot of comments so far criticizing Microsoft for not letting pirated copies of XP get patched by SP2 and how it will in turn affect legitimate users because all of those pirated machines are now a playground for worms and what have you. I feel this is a completely valid criticism, and I was a bit suprised that MS would not be doing it after I read a lot of the good points made here on slashdot....
...Then my conspiracy theorist gears started turning, and I thought that maybe pirates not getting updates is exactly what MS wants. That way, whenever a nasty worm creeps up in the future, they have an obvious and "evil" group to point the finger at. They can blame the propogation on pirates and not on their own vulnerable systems. The irony is, within months I'm sure most people who've pirated Windows XP will find a work-around for installing SP2 anyway, but MS can still use pirates as ammo for FUD amoung the general XP using public.
--
Is it me, or did it just get fatter in here?
Second, there are millions of casual pirates who install Windows on more machines than they've licensed, or who "borrow" a copy from work. Many of these people just aren't ever going to buy the appropriate number of copies of the OS, especially at retail prices. However, they do benefit Microsoft by remaining in the Windows "ecosystem", increasing its value through the network effect. If they crack down on these people, many of them will go to the effort to learn Linux or some other solution, thereby increasing the influence of alternative ecosystems at the expense of Microsoft's influence. This increased familiarity of alternative solutions in the general public would lower the barriers for Microsoft's lucrative customers, like entire businesses, from dumping all of their Microsoft products and switching to alternatives.
And how is this not the same thing? When SP1 came out the "Devils own" Cd-Key was very well known.
Now, Microsoft knows about 20 or so "very well known" CD-keys and are blocking them out.
There are undoubtably hundreds or thousands more pirated keys that MS doesnt know about that SP2 will install on.
I follow the SDK and GDN principles.. Spelling Dont Kount, Grammer Dont Neither
I can understand Microsoft NOT making any effort to support unauthorized copies. But they don't need to make any extra effort; all they need to do is make a patch and let it float around the net. Instead, they're going out of their way to detect and "punish" the "pirates." That's a bit vindictive (though not to the extent you suggest).
I think Microsoft is still within their rights, but as a Linux user and an Internet user I feel I'm helping pay a bit of the price for Microsoft's sweet revenge.
Microsoft lied back on...uh I mean clarified their position back on May 10th.
1 59 0150,00.asp
http://www.microsoft-watch.com/article2/0,1995,
Seems Microsoft is spending more and more time trying to cover up or explain what some of their spokespeople are saying.
Not only that but the virus writers who are more likely to be running a pirated copy of windows should be really happy with Microsoft going back on its word to make this update available even to pirated copies. This should cut down on the number of viruses and Trojans they write. I am sure the holes in SP2 will be exploited within hours or days of its release.
Vindictive? Pirates are STEALING copies of it. Personally I just don't feel good about stealing stuff anymore. What you call vindictive, I call fair play.
I did LOTS of software swapping growing up. I'm not sure I ever paid for a piece of software for the first 10-15 years of having a computer (starting in 1979 when I was 8). At some point though, I got a decent paying job and just didn't feel right about stealing any longer.
Just for the record my office desktop machine is running Fedora (though has an XP license that work paid for). My office laptop dual boots WinXP and Fedora. My home server is running slackware. My home main/gaming machine runs WinXP (which I bought as an OEM edition with all the parts). My home secondary machine runs Gentoo.
I prefer free software and even support the creators through donations. In my perfect world all software would be free. But in the current world someone has assigned a value to Windows XP. While I don't agree with that, I just can't bring myself to steal it either. Anything that can be done as corrective action to those who do steal things, I'm all for.
People would rather go through all the hoops of cracking WinXP rather than use the "free" alternatives
until *.nix*distro* is easier and more intuitive to install and use, people will allways choose the easy route (cracking should not be easier than a linux install)
It seems to me as if this kind of limitation will take an hour or so of work to get around.
And you will have modified versions of SP2 floating around the web in not time.
technolgical limitations are not going to stop software "piracy" and it is about time micro$oft and friends realise this.
Me
The presence of compromised machines, even if they are not your own, result in increased network traffic, resulting in a slower overall connection if you don't happen to have a dedicated bandwidth connection. Further, the compromised machines can be used by spammers to harrass pretty much everyone, even if they use non Windows OS's.
In principle, this is no different from people who have hacked into the computer system on their car to figure out what the diagnostic codes mean (a violation of the DMCA), and then if the car is recalled due to a safety flaw, they are not allowed to get the problem fixed due to their violation.
Now I realize that this is hardly a safety issue and lives are not likely to be lost, but the principles are ultimately the same... the only difference is a matter of degree.
That's why so many people are upset about this. At least, that's what I would imagine is the reason.
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
Preview showed the whole thing, but when I posted, it got cut off. Meh. So I'll post it in two parts. And I forgot to tick post anonymously on that first one. Yikes.
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That is, after I get past the too few characters per line filter.wecrhjbxmagyrwxm93yt57324tcmesbgfxm4egytvax
Don't worry, the keygen is in the public domain.
What you do with it is your business.
I personally have 8 licenses of Windows XP and only 4 computers.
Why do I use a keygen? Mostly because I don't like activation.
Of course I also edited my license agreement to "I agree to use this software in any manner I see fit under existing copyright law" and had it signed with the same signatures that the original agreement had. Which would be none.
They hate OSS users more, because at least, the pirates could theorically be brought to justice and/or made to cough-up cash to Billy-Boy, whereas they just can't LEGALLY lay their hands on OSS users and squeeze cash out of them...
No, they hate OSS users more because they don't contribute to making Microsoft the standard. If every pirate switched to Linux, you wouldn't be able to use a word document and figure most of the people you talk to will be able to read it. Instead you'll have to use another, non-Microsoft file format. But if you do that, then there is less reason for you to be using Windows, so more people will be inclined to move over to other operating systems.
Pirates make Microsoft the standard among home users.
I used to be really unhappy that Microsoft would not allow service patches to be used on pirated copies of windows.
It means that compromised machines will remain on the net for a long time, and it also means that eventually, a killer virus WILL shut down a bunch of computers, and really piss a bunch of people off.
Why? I know you can apply hot fixes anyways. But people are too lazy to find the ~200 hotfixes that comprise a service pack.
Anyways, back to why I'm happy about it:
Back in the day (Win95 era) MS basically encouraged piracy. It ensures vendor lock-in, and substantially hurt the revenue of any competitive offerings. Most piracy was petty, anyways-- You bought a new computer, it came with an OEM copy, you bought a laptop, it came with an OEM copy. But that computer you built for your mom, or that older computer you gave to a friend, got upgraded to the latest and greatest windows for free.
Until now. Now, that is no longer really possible.
Hopefully, this will give greater impetus for people to switch to alternatives (like Linux).
Linux looses a lot of its competitive advantage when windows is effectively 'free' too. Windows pirate has typically been rampant.
If even a small portion of those pirates switch, it will be a substantial move of the market.
I know this business (both the absurd patching regime, and the inability to 'soft' pirate) made me switch.
I can't keep track of all those serial numbers. I think all the computers in my home (5? 6?) have valid copies of Windows XP associated with them. I'm sure all the laptops came with them. But it is too much trouble to keep track of all that stuff.
Now everything runs SuSE. I bought one copy, reasonable cost ~$70.00, and I'm in the clear, legally.
WhiteWolf666 an exBush supporter. All you new-school,compassionate,save the children Republicans can rot in hell
Why did you have to work around the activation process? Did the activiation process give you the chance to call Microsoft? They just ask if you have it installed on any other machines and as long as you don't they just give you a new activiation code over the phone. The copy of Windows XP Pro that I have on my gaming machine has been re-registered via a telephone call to the 800# at Microsoft 3-4 times now with each call taking less than 5 minutes each.
I've had to re-activate so many times because I am CONSTANTLY uprading my machine. Before I actually called I was really pissed at MS the first time thinking it was going to waste my day and be painful. But it wasn't. I've had three difference motherboards (Asus P4C800 Delux, Gigabyte 8KNXP, and now a SuperMicro P4SCT+II) and two different CPUs (3.0Ghz 512k Cache, 800mhz FSB and now a 3.4Ghz 2MB Cache) and three different video cards (ATI 9800 Pro, 9800XT, and now a X800 Plat)... every time I've called like I said, it was a breeze.
Oh well, I hate Microsoft, but since I use their products I follow their procedures and so far they haven't hurt me... they might hurt my soul for giving Microsoft money... but my conscience is clear.
So they're not going to patch those machines?
I really truely am tired of all the crap flying about from insecure machines. I run Linux at home, but that's not the point. I'd be even more pissed if I was a registered MSFT user because the crap from the insecured pirated machines TARGETS MY MACHINE ANYWAY!
Doesn't MSFT recognise this is a problem for the REGISTERED USERS THAT PAID MONEY for their crap OS? This just proves that they're beyond redemption and view their customers as disposable.
Auugh...yet another reason to hate MSFT.
--
BMO
If its all pirated MS sees little benefit either. There's no point having market dominance if it just costs you money.
Stop thinking like Open Source. MS is a company and needs to make money from their products.
George Bush + Linux = "I will not let information get in the way of the fight against Windows"
*sniff* decoders wheels. Those were the days.
:)
Notable mention also goes to 'hidden keys' which you had to place a piece of red plastic over to read.
First place for 'Nostalgic Interactive Copy Protections of the Past' definetly goes to decoder wheels though. Rocket ranger was one of my favorite wheels. Useless, as the game sucked, but the wheel was fun.
-- I have fans? Wow.
>Actually, these systems have spheres of influence based on where they plug in. I could care less about this since it will not affect our corporate network.
The ways this will hurt you:
1. XP machines transformed into spam relays flooding your corporate email servers.
2. Floods, zombies, etc attacking your ISP thus increasing latency for all involved or even DDOS. Remember how that MS SQL exploit slowed down the net for millions of people?
3. XP machines transformed into virus/trojan machines shooting emails at your corporate network. What's that? You got hit before you could update the definitions? Too bad.
4. Home users bringing in USB keychains or floppies with today's newest virus because their home machines are on an untrusted network.
5. Remote access users flooding your network with trojan packets by using a machine from Kinkos or some other untrusted location. Or remote access users letting their kids use the "company laptop" and then penetrating your firewall with all sorts of crap.
Criminal investigation and punishment should be done by the authorities, at least we have a check on them. When corporate america decides to "police the net", we all have problems. MS should give up and give everyone whatever patch they need regardless of legality.
Nobody here is going to slag RH off because if you want to maintain a distribution outside their network, there are many other places (Google, for White box Linux).
See my journal, I write things there