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Marking 50 Years Since Alan Turing's Death

Posted by timothy on from the actual-tragedy dept.

erroneous writes "Today is the 50th anniversary of the death of Alan Turing: mathematician, code breaker, and computer pioneer. He was today commemorated in his home city of Manchester, UK." Here are stories at the BBC and at The Register.

35 of 423 comments (clear)

  1. Killed by the society he saved. by CelticLo · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Forced to take hormones to cure his homosexuality.

    1. Re:Killed by the society he saved. by Ironix · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Is it any coincidence that Apple Computers has a logo of an apple with only one bite in it?

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    2. Re:Killed by the society he saved. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      There have been motions at various points to cure "happiness", as any variation from the norm must be "non-ideal". So, it depends from where you look at the situation.

    3. Re:Killed by the society he saved. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      There are 2 things to consider here I think most people are missing. I'm not saying what happened made it right, but people seem to be lacking context. Frequently, we look back at things and say horrific, but we wouldn't be where we are today if those events in the past hadn't taken place. (I personally find it ridiculous to piss on Thomas Jefferson because he had slaves, Lincoln because he didn't believe blacks could ever be equal to whites, or Columbus for causing genocide simply because he "discovered" the Americas.)

      First, in historical context, I believe homosexuality was still considered a mental illness then. Nearly anyone in this time period with a mental disease was treated like trash.

      Second, medical practice back then was not as, say, scientific as our approach is today. Treatment and cure experimentation were the focus of the day, not understanding the underlying basis of disease (as noted, homosexuality as considered a mental illness back then).

      That said, his so-called treatment fell between medical science as well as societal/legal ramifications.

      This is also one of the reasons why it was a huge step to get homosexuality unlisted as a mental disease, something that that vast vast majority in the medical community, conservative or progressive, overwhelmingly agree with. (And also why the scientific and political community has always adjoined and butted heads nearly simultaneously.)

    4. Re:Killed by the society he saved. by Rei · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Why on earth did you just try and mix up homosexuality and transsexuality? Completely different things - and transsexuality *is* treated with hormones (something most transsexuals are happy about).

      Homosexuality isn't a disease because homosexuals are already in the state that they want to be in (barring issues of societal acceptance). Homosexuality - attraction to the same sex - has no real barriers apart from societal ones. Transsexuals, however, are not in such a state. Consequently, it is a condition that needs treatment.

      One thing that is funny about transsexuality is that the medical community considers it a disease - meaning that the individual must get diagnosed, receive extensive councelling, and meet a variety of requirements - incurring extensive medical expenses. However, the insurance companies and government health agencies do not and consider all treatment "cosmetic", making it so that they don't pay for treatment. Consequently, transsexuals often have their problems compounded by the medical system.

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    5. Re:Killed by the society he saved. by Hard_Code · · Score: 3, Interesting

      "If there's a darwinian reason for homosexuality, I've never heard it"

      From my limited biological knowledge: Some species (e.g. some frogs) can actually /change sex/ to accomodate the environment. Some male frogs do this IIRC, changing from male to female when the male/female ratio is too high.

      Granted primates are way more complicated, and the reason might be entirely different. There are tons of weird, "useless" crap that natural selection has left us with. Hell, most human behavior was designed to hunt animals, live in a cave, and die at age 30. Almost nothing about us is "natural" or "useful" any more. Remember natural selection may "select" towards fitness, but it doesn't necessarily deselect things that are not useful but not particularly harmful either. From what I hear about DNA, there is massive amounts of "junk" we carry around, and that we have to support by caloric intake. However that "junk" can really be thought of as a self-decompressing self-decrypting program that comes into affect essentially at birth and at various other times. If you think about it computationally, there is a "limit" to the amount of "stuff" you can describe with DNA. The fascinating thing is how it bootstraps, self-decompresses, self-decrypts, and self-modifies. It's all amazing that it even works at all. It would be like typing random characters into a computer and one day just popping out the Linux kernel.

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    6. Re:Killed by the society he saved. by pturing · · Score: 3, Interesting

      >If there's a darwinian reason for homosexuality, I've never heard it

      there are a few good hypotheses

      Keep in mind that you don't have to reproduce yourself to have reproductive success. The best way is through supporting family members, but benefiting the community can also be a good stratagy, and anything that benefits the species will do. In some cultures it is common for homosexuals to become priests, and I'm not just talking about Catholics here.

      If we were to evaluate Mr. Turing's reproductive success, we would probably consider it very high; certainly he helped save the lives of many of his countrymen, with whom he had much genetic commonality.

    7. Re:Killed by the society he saved. by DunbarTheInept · · Score: 2, Interesting

      There are some who would say that the whole gay/bi/straight thing shouldn't really be treated as seperate distinct categories, but rather as a sliding scale where very few people are entirely at one end or the other. A 100% straight or 100% gay person is rare, and most are something like 98% one and 2% the other or something like that - with that kind of a model, it's easy to see how an evolutionary model could end up with percentages that come out "straight" only 90% of the time, and those percentages could differ from one person to the next, to the point where in rare cases the preferences end up the other way around - it's not a difference of category, but one of proportionment and ratio.

      Under that model, the difference between gays and straights wouldn't be so much a categorical difference (like having ten fingers versus having six) but a slight ratio difference (like the ratio of pignments in your hair that makes some people's hair come out blond or brown or black or red.)

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    8. Re:Killed by the society he saved. by HolyCoitus · · Score: 5, Interesting
      If you're going to bring the bible up, at least know what it says...

      Romans 1:26
      For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
      1:27
      And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

      Romans 1:31
      Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
      1:32
      Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them


      All of that is related, and ends with saying that they are worthy of death for desiring someone of the same sex or accepting others who do. That's in the New Testament. You'd expect that from the old, since it's generally vile, but the New Testament is rather sneaky with its pervasive evil.

      Off your post, to say that Christians have nothing to do with Turing's death is illogical. It's one of many things that I believe Christianity has done to hurt modern society.

      And on gay marriage, the law either needs to be changed so that you have to have a kid to get married or you allow everyone to. That simple. Your logic is flawed on that fact, since the Christian church does not allow children out of wedlock.
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    9. Re:Killed by the society he saved. by Decaff · · Score: 2, Interesting

      but it doesn't necessarily deselect things that are not useful but not particularly harmful either.

      Yes it does. Because of mutations, genes are constantly tested to see if they are important. Useless genes fizzle away after a relatively short length of time. If you see DNA in a cell, its there because its useful for something.

      The big point is that bits of DNA have to be useful, but not necessarily useful to *us*. It may be parasitic, and useful to itself.

      From what I hear about DNA, there is massive amounts of "junk" we carry around, and that we have to support by caloric intake.

      True.

      However that "junk" can really be thought of as a self-decompressing self-decrypting program that comes into affect essentially at birth and at various other times.

      Er no. Its just DNA. There is certainly nothing to do with compression or encryption going on.

      If you think about it computationally, there is a "limit" to the amount of "stuff" you can describe with DNA.

      This is getting bizzare.

      The fascinating thing is how it bootstraps, self-decompresses, self-decrypts, and self-modifies.

      You are confusing DNA with some sort of compressed InstallShield program!

    10. Re:Killed by the society he saved. by DunbarTheInept · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I would imagine there is a strong correlation between "prudeness" and "straightness" (And I say this as someone who is straight but I hopefully count myself as not being part of that prude correlation), or at least *declared* straightness. Therefore I would automatically disgregard any psychological study trying to determine how prevelent various sexual orientations are if that study is dependant on people volunteering information honestly.

      Also, anyone who is 'outcast' for being in the minority with regards to a particular opinion is more likely to be the sort who spends time thinking about that particular thing. (The average third-party supporter in politics probably spends more time thinking about politics than the general population, because he's constantly reminded that his politics differ from the majority. The average atheist spends more time thinking about religion than the average theist, because he's constantly reminded that his position differs from the majority. And, similarly, the average gay person probably spends more time thinking about his own sexuality than the average straight person does, again, because he's constantly reminded that his orientation differs from other people's.) Thus the willingness to volunteer answers to the questions this survey asks ends up being a filter that makes for a non-representative sample. A straight person is less likely to volunteer for such a study.

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    11. Re:Killed by the society he saved. by Scarblac · · Score: 2, Interesting

      If there's a darwinian reason for homosexuality, I've never heard it

      (this is just some idea of mine, no idea if other people have had it as well)

      There are certain species of birds that live in colonies, who will help family members (siblings as well as nieces etc) raising their kids, if they don't have any themselves, or if their own didn't survive. This is obviously a survival trait - genes of birds whose genes lead them to help birds with similar genes have a higher chance to survive, because they in turn are more likely to be helped.

      Humans did most of their recent evolution in small groups of hunter/gatherers. I believe it may well be good for the group if a percentage of adults does not have children of their own, is not in competition with the other males in the group, but is available for hunting with the group, protection from predators/other tribes, et cetera.

      So such a group with one or two homosexuals could have a higher survival rate, as a group, even enough to make up for one or two fewer people with offspring of their own. Just an idea.

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  2. It's quite a tragic story by Gay+Nigger · · Score: 5, Interesting
    I learned a lot about the theory that Alan Turing basically either laid the groundwork for or created wholesale himself in the course of my CS education. I'm in awe of his genius - truly this was a great man.

    However, I find it tragic and apalling that his life had to end the way it did. With the rampant homophobia in the UK at the time (and, some would say, such feeling still exists, albeit now driven underground), he had no choice but to end his life, else he would face a lifetime of torment and living in the shadows. It's really too bad that otherwise great nations do such stupid things and end up killing their greatest minds. Here's to you, Alan. *clink*

    1. Re:It's quite a tragic story by el-spectre · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Interesting... the fellow may be a troll, but this post is not. Turing DID kill himself, and most likely due to the ramifications of his homosexuality becoming public knowledge.

      --
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    2. Re:It's quite a tragic story by kfg · · Score: 2, Interesting

      It's really too bad that otherwise great nations do such stupid things and end up killing their greatest minds.

      To combine this thread with the one on Atlantis and a sig:

      "I drank what? - Socrates

      There is really nothing stupider than a nation (and for all of their positive virtues democracies are the stupidest), and as Thoreau noted nations typically hold the idea that their best men are their mortal enemies.

      I'll join your toast to Alan, but expand it to include all the men and women who have suffered a similar absurdly tragic fate at the hands of their own.

      KFG

    3. Re:It's quite a tragic story by ioslipstream · · Score: 1, Interesting

      The mindset concerning homosexuality at that time is tragic. His 'fate' however is not. He took his own life, that's not tragic, that's just plain weak.

      He was a great man and his life would lead one to believe that he was a stronger person than that.

      I thought against posting this, but I see no reason to show respect to an act of suicide. Respect the man and what he accomplished, but to call his death tragic, as if to say "Poor Alan, people didn't accept him for him", just doesn't sit well with me.

      This is of course only my opinion, and probably will not show up (I never post and have negative karma... I think), but I thought it necessary to state anyway.

  3. Turing test? by Zorak+Man · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Turing test anyone?

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    1. Re:Turing test? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting
      You mean the Descartes Test?


      "For we can certainly conceive of a machine so constructed that it utters words, and even utters words which correspond to bodily actions causing a change in its organs (e.g., if you touch it in one spot it asks what you want of it, if you touch it in another it cries out that you are hurting it, and so on). But it is not conceivable that such a machine should produce different arrangements of words so as to give an appropriately meaningful answer to whatever is said in its presence, as even the dullest of men can do." (Descartes Discourse on Method, from 1637)
  4. Re:Overestimating his contributions by t_allardyce · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I think what they ment was without him, Hitler would be drinking tea at No.10, but he did have a pretty big impact.

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  5. Turing's chess machine by MonkeyBot · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Maybe a bit off-topic, but Turing wrote the first chess machine on paper and played a well known player of his age. He always aimed to be a good player, but never quite got the hang of it. Guess we all have our own skills!

  6. Didn't know he had a statue by Tony+Hoyle · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I must wander down there some time... that it's of him holding the apple that killed him is rather thought provoking.

    However I can find an Alan Turing Road in Guildford but nothing in Manchester as the article implies.

  7. Re:On a side note by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The city of Manchester would ask that you avoid eating the apples.

    Well, the statue they made for him does feature the apple.

    I wonder if that's how Jobs, Woz, and Co. got their name? At very least, they must have known about the connotation. It seems kind of sick to me.

  8. Re:On a side note by bigattichouse · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Despite my tacky tone, I have always thought that his statue was one of the most reflective/thoughtful pieces of art I've ever seen. It's well done, if you don't know the story - but it is astounding the amount of reflection and thought that must be going through the man's mind as he stares at the apple.

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  9. A Great Man by Orinthe · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I don't know how it is in more diverse places, but it often seems like I'm the only gay man majoring in Computer Science, and I remember years ago it was such a relief to find that arguably the most recognized name in the field was gay.

    Although the nature of his persecution and suicide are unfortunate, I'm somewhat glad of the fact that it's often talked about--things like this and worse are still happening in many parts of the world.

    That said, I prefer not to dwell on it. I am merely grateful that I and others have such a man to look up to in a field that so often seems at present to have so little diversity.

    Here's to Alan Turing, a Great Man.

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    1. Re:A Great Man by Rorschach1 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Turing's always been something of a hero to me, too.

      You might be surprised... I'm not sure about CS students in general, but the hacker subculture at least has more than its share of non-heterosexuals. Of course, gay nerds being generally as socially inept and introverted as straight nerds, that's not likely to do you much good. =]

    2. Re:A Great Man by andy55 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      ...but it's my impression that overwhelming majority of people in CS programs are white guys. I know I can count the number of females I've seen in my CS classes on my hands. One hand, come to think of it, and I'm hardly polydactic.

      Fair enough. And you're right--along with other poster who pointed out the percise definition of diveristy--there is often a narrow spectrum of social demographics in the CS/math/tech/engineer community. Is this really a "problem" per se? Sure, it's not preferrable all things being equal, but in Turing's case, it's was tragic backwardness of that day's society/culture/norms that forced him to his suicide, not--I wager--any of his fellow work or class mates. I will say that I don't have any hard facts to back that up, so I'll end here.

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  10. Re:Overestimating his contributions by Hard_Code · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Science does not progress equally on all fronts. It goes in fits and spurts. It has been true in the past (perhaps moreso in the past) where the whimsy or intellect of a single person advanced a given field greatly, whereas if they personally were not involved the field might only advance a quarter of what it could, or be completely abandoned in favor of some more "fashionable" discovery. We are constantly finding diaries and notes of inventors and scientists who come accross an astounding discovery but since it isn't related directly to their research they disregard it to be rediscovered maybe 50 or 100 years later. I think it is entirely possible for things like this to happen.

    That being said, one of the major drivers FOR information technology was the sheer computation requires to advance in many OTHER fields, so computer science would probably have marched onwards.

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  11. Death? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Shouldn't we be celebrating his birthdate?

  12. Statue with the apple by nwbvt · · Score: 2, Interesting
    Anyone else feel that is a tad bit inappropriate? I mean the man did some pretty amazing things in his life, isn't there a better way to memorialize him that by showing him about to kill himself? I doubt that was the proudest moment of his life. You can still make him a martyr while honoring his life, not his death.

    I mean the Lincoln memorial doesn't have a giant stone John Wilkes Booth creeping up on him...

    Maybe you Brits are just more morbid than us.

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  13. Re:Buried his money, forgot where it was by Richard_L_James · · Score: 3, Interesting

    And for anyone keen to go looking for Alan's lost cash stash... Chances are it will now be buried under one of Milton Keynes small number of round-a-bout's (join the dots!!!) or being guarded by the bizarre Milton Keynes concrete cows. No wonder Alan couldn't find it again !!

  14. Re:Turing's AI studies probably created computers. by Geek+of+Tech · · Score: 3, Interesting

    As brilliant as he was, I don't get why Turing thought that mimicking the human brain would be a step toward intelligence. Sometimes I think the best way for a computer to prove intelligence would to not act like humans....

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  15. A bit different view by localroger · · Score: 2, Interesting
    I got the impression from what I've read that it wasn't so much the British who hounded him to death as the American CIA who couldn't stomach the idea of a fag having access to their classified goodies.

    Oh, and BTW I'm an American.

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  16. Re:some thoughts... by Pentagram · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I think you understate his importance. He was far more than a code breaker.

    It is possible that he is the most important computer scientist of all time. He is of course against some strong competition, but in my opinion the only one in his league is Von Neumann. There is hardly a concept in computer science that was not at least considered in basic form by Turing.

    As for the war, the phrase "some decent contributions" doesn't do him justice. An argument can be made that he was the most important individual in WW2. That may be overstating it, but I would consider him to be one of the key persons. I think it is entirely possible that if you removed Turing from history, the Nazis could have ended up winning the war in Europe.

  17. Re:WW-II could have been lost... modern parallel by paul7e · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I wonder if any of the U.S. military's gay Arabic translators would have translated the warning about the next big terrorist attack if they hadn't been fired by the Bush administration just for being gay?

    I guess we'll never know.

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  18. Slightly Off-Topic... (Enigma Machine Theft) by SlashdotKeefey · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Does anyone remember when one of the Enigma machines was stolen from Bletchley Park? Well, it is quite an amusing story (Aging BBC Link), about how it ended up in the hands of Jeremy Paxman after a nationwide manhunt. I just think it goes to show (and also perhaps defies one of the "why bother remembering Turing" posts from above) that Station X, Turing and Bletchley Park are still very much at the forefront of the British psyche. However, on the other side of the coin, and I think others may have posted something to the same effect, but the Government has little or no interest in the history surrounding Bletchley Park (Bletchley Park Official Website - Fund Request), and so this place is a dilapidated mess. Such a terrible, terrible shame.