Slashdot Mirror
Hotmail Blocks Gmail Emails (and Invites)
bonhomme_de_neige writes "Emails and invitations sent to Hotmail from Gmail accounts do not bounce, but nor do they arrive in the recipient's Inbox - they vanish mysteriously into the aether. Joel Johnson writes in his Gizmodo weblog that invitations he sent to a Hotmail address bounced (this even received coverage from ZDNet). Search Engine Roundtable writes that several ISPs are blocking Gmail. It's already well-documented that Yahoo moves Gmail invites into the Bulk Mail folder. I've personally confirmed the Hotmail and Yahoo blocking." Please note: I've not been able to verify this one way or another.
I just tested to three hotmail accounts, invites and standard emails get through fine. Not sure about yahoo tho.
I've invited two people on their Hotmail accounts, and both received the emails just fine.
"I'm not sure which is the bigger disappointment; my failure to formulate a unified field theory, or you."--Stephen Haw
I got an invite from my buddy, he even sent it to me using his gmail address. me thinks this story is FUD.
To test, I sent two messages from GMail: one directly to my Hotmail account and one which I only CC'ed to my Hotmail account. The CC'd message arrived immediately but the direct message (sent first) arrived about 5 minutes later.
I have an hotmail account, and my cousin was able to send me a Gmail invite to that account a week ago. Perhaps the situation changed, I don't know.
Please direct all bug reports to
so they are breaking the law and interfering with email
Do tell, what law are they breaking? I must have missed the one which says that ISP's and other electronic mail carriers must deliver all e-mails passing through their systems.
Hotmail, like Gmail are run on private networks and anyone using said networks are bound by the whims of their owners and operators.
Help Brendan pay off his student loans
So the core of this Slashdot "article" is some posting on one guy's blog about losing a invitation he sent to his girlfriend. And that's been extrapolated into "Hotmail blocks Gmail".
If you read the blog article the writer blows all credibility when he reveals that someone just told him about the "Sent Folder":
Update: Thanks to everyone telling me to check the Sent folder. I can at least retrieve the invites now.
When are people going to realize that blogs are the equivalent of public urination on the web. People post stream of consciousness bullshit dressed up as "information" or even "facts" and because it's on a blog, well then, it must be true.
John.
This story is the biggest pile of turd I've read on Slashdot - and I've read some pretty strong contenders.
It's already well-documented that Yahoo moves Gmail invites into the Bulk Mail folder. I've personally confirmed the Hotmail and Yahoo blocking.
Much as I enjoy wearing my tinfoil hat, I think it can be dispensed with here.
Both Hotmail and Yahoo mail have been plagued with spam, and with users demanding they do something about that spam. Indeed, that's one reason people are interested in GMail.
Since almost all spam -- anything we think of spam, anyway -- arrives in mass quantities, and a logical way to reduce spam is simply to look for many addresses receiving the same email.
So a decent first cut at filtering bulk spam (and recall that both Yahoo and Hotmail use "bulk mail" folders) would be to take an MD5 sum of each email (not including the "To" address header lines, of course), stick the sum in hash table or other database, and increment a counter for each email with that MD5 sum. Once the counter reached some arbitrary large-ish number, you'd mark all copies of that emails spam.
Since the GMial invite varies slightly, it's clear that something fuzzier than an MD5 sum is being used, but the principle remains the same.
The first N GMail invites weren't marked as "bulk email"; after the counter threshold was reached, all the rest have been.
So all we've learned from this is that, even during this invite-only beta test, GMail must be sending out a hell of a lot of invites, and that, yes indeed, Hotmail and Yahoo customers demanded and got "bulk email" filtering.
So take off the tinfoil hats -- you'll have a real reason to wear them soon enough.
Opinions on the Twiddler2 hand-held keyboard?
> so they are breaking the law and interfering with email
Do tell, what law are they breaking? I must have missed the one which says that ISP's and other electronic mail carriers must deliver all e-mails passing through their systems.
I think that you're right, but I think that the confusion exists because of existing laws concerning common carriers.
Carthago delenda est!
A Gmail invite came to my Yahoo account just fine.
Just so y'all know: I used http://www.gmailswap.com to get the invite. Thanks guys!
~D
This sig has been enciphered with a one-time pad. It could say almost anything.
I received a Gmail invite through my hotmail account just yesterday without any problems.
I sent an invite to someone two days ago, and he still hasn't gotten it.
I can vouch that this is certainly questionable.
Actually - it happened in this order. Test email sent to Hotmail, did not arrive. Story submitted to Slashdot. Email arrived in Hotmail account several hours later (after other emails I sent from my other accounts _after_ the one from gmail - which arrived almost instantly). I've read several reports of Hotmail both bouncing and vanishing Gmail email - I'm sure if you hunt around you can find even more. It may be that they are changing their behaviour as they realise it'd going to do them more harm then good.
As for the Yahoo one, that is definitely true.
"Why are you watching the washing machine?"
"I love entertainment, as long as it's clean"
For what it's worth, I received a Gmail invite through my Hotmail account on Friday without any problems.
Who do you get to be an expert to tell you something's not obvious? The least insightful person you can find? -J Roberts
unless your ISP is SBC, then you get a Yahoo! account (even though its @sbcglobal.net).
I sent my wife a gmail invite to her hotmail account... and she accepted it/got the msg no problem...
i just sent a message from gmail to my hotmail and it was recieved... ?
I love a good conspiracy, but we might have rattled our tinfoil swords prematurely on this one...
e.
Build Your Own PVR/HTPC news, reviews, &
Yeah, that's a great idea... if you want to completely destroy morale!
.mil addresses, which I'm sure go through some sort of filtering before delivery. No sane military commander would restrict it much more than that except in the most extreme circumstances.
Most of the soldiers I know are able to get through the day because they feel that they're fighting for something important to them: their friends and family. Take away that connection and you take away their reason for fighting, and suddenly you no longer have an effective fighting force (at best, at worst you create more traitors and the problem, rather than being solved, only gets bigger).
Before you say they should use snail mail, would you? In a day when near instant communication is not only possible, but common in every home, restricting soldiers to doing things the old way just isn't acceptable. Never mind the fact that snail mail often ends up chasing a soldier around for weeks before finally catching up to them, and it's not uncommon for it to never catch up at all.
FWIW my soldier friends who're deployed are pretty much restricted to using their
Under capitalism man exploits man. Under communism it's the other way around.
You get all the advantages of a real email address without the changiness.
im in ur
Or pay $12 a year for pobox.com redirection and spam filtering. No ads, and you can send the mail to whatever real e-mail account you like, and change it at a moment's notice (unlike personal domains).
GCHQ Quantum Insert installed. If only our tongues were made of glass, how much more careful we would be when we speak
I've actually had a lot of issues with hotmail in the last... 3-6 months? Email bounce with server errors (accounts aren't full so that's not the problem), or there's a lengthy delay between sending the email and it actually being received.
So, this may not be so much indicative of a problem with hotmail and gmail as it is hotmail in general. Possibly they're lagged in processing the some bazillion spams that must pass through there, anyone have any stats on how much spam passes through hotmail daily?
I got my invite fine at my hotmail address.