Memo to Apple: Respect Your Resellers

An anonymous reader writes "As Apple opens more and more stores across the country (they are going to hit 88 by the end of 2004, according to top Apple retail honcho Ron Johnson), small independent dealers claim to be taking it in the shorts: five are suing Apple for all sorts of nastiness. Here's an interesting prescription for how Apple can make things right with its resellers and still open lots of shiny stores for the masses."

Comments

Service Calls

[Hungus]

From the article

Apple had previously referred service calls to CDS. But increasingly, Apple refers service customers to its own retail operations, claims Verga.

Being an AAST (Apple Authorised Service Tech) the Apple Store here in the Dallas area has allowed me to put business cards in the front desk. The stores don't do out of warranty work, so they encourage techs, VARs and solutions providers to list themselves at the stores. This being the case I really think these foxes are crying about grapes (imperfect Aesop allusion)

Have you been in a reseller's shop?

[ibullard]

Because I have. Five of them. They're all holes in the wall, at least thirty minutes away and you can walk around for half an hour before they'll even acknowledge your presence. Then they charge 10% more than Apple does on their web site.

I was in one where I walked in, started browsing around and was completely ignored by the staff. A pretty woman walked in about five minutes later and the salesman immediately asked what he could do for her. I was going to buy an external HD but since they couldn't be bothered to help me I couldn't be bothered to buy one.

It's no wonder they don't like the competition, they suck. Apple's stores are a world better.

Re:Have you been in a reseller's shop?

[Analog Penguin]

Word up, brother. I've not yet made it to an official Apple store, but there are three places in my area that sell Macs. One is this tiny little hole in the wall that looks like some guy's garage after an earthquake. There are random machines and empty boxes strewn about. The staff respond to questions with one-word answers. It's impossible to find anything, and you can't get any help. I gather their repair business is decent, but as a reseller, this does not make Apple look good. The other one has one or two gumdrop iMacs on a shelf in the back somwhere. The final one is our good friend CompUSA, where salesmen say things like "The Mac doesn't have enough RAM to run a two-button mouse, and anyway it uses a different format for the Internet so you can't talk to your friends." It has been like this for as long as I can remember. It was worse back when places like Sears were in on the deal, too.

It's not like Apple didn't give the resellers their chance. They've had their chance for twenty years, and most have consistently blown it. I'm surprised Apple put up with this shit for this long. I'm sure there are some friendly, helpful, well-organized places run by knowledgable individuals, and they have my sympathy, but I've certainly never been to one.

Re:Have you been in a reseller's shop?

[Anonymous Coward]

Being an employee of an Authorized Apple Reseller (On the Tech side). We charge more than apple to make $$. Since Apple charges US the same prices as they'd charge you. As for the snotty attitude of the sales people... thats just poor sales. Most of our sales people here aren't like that. keyword is most.

Re:Have you been in a reseller's shop?

[sdmacguru]

I've got to chime in on this. I'm a former employee of a local reseller in San Diego.
Would I want to be a customer at that reseller? Not really. Location is a warehouse in an industrial park, entrance is hidden on the side, merchandise is not super-well-organized, prices are not displayed on anything and all the customers, apparently, phone each other and come in at the same time. So the effect is that the sales staff is either completely bored out of their gourd or totally overwhelmed. Each of them wants to give their full attention to their customer, which is good, but if you aren't the customer in front of them, you don't get any attention.
Additionally, they consistently fail to deliver on promises. Some of this is due to cash flow issues (c'mon, they're a small business). Some due to Apple filling orders TO THEIR OWN STORES before shipping constrained product to resellers. That's just rotten, but it happens with every new product. Sometimes due to the personnel involved: these people are Mac fanatics first, sales and service second. Their heart is in the right place, but the professionalism can be lacking.
Lest you think I'm just dishing on an old employer, I'll say this about that. I didn't really do a lot to bring up the level of professionalism, myself. And I really liked the people I worked with, all were decent folk. I wish them well, but man, the cards are really stacked against them and not getting better.
Here's the deal: without these front-line risk-takers throughout the 90's, I don't think Apple would be here today. Seriously.
To have Apple fail to figure out how to work with resellers after all these years is inexecusable, to have Apple kill off this channel of sales is really, really awful. Yeah, it's business, but it just seems like corporate has to take more responsibility for the success of their resellers and they have to understand that they are burning a bridge they've been using for years if they do kill off resellers.
Wish I had an answer, all I have is some experience.

Interesting

[FattMattP]

There's a place down the street from my apartment in San Francisco called MacAdam. They have a poster in their window saying that their Apple reseller status was revoked because they were complaining about the warranties. According to their poster warranties for apple computers begin on the day of manufacture not the day of sale to the customer.

Are there any Mac people here that have had this experience? I've been thinking hard about getting a Powerbook as my next computer.

Re:Interesting

[coolgeek]

It's the day of purchase.

Sent my previous PB-667 in 363 days after purchase because the feet came off. It was returned to me in 3 days with a new case and a new battery (because one of the feet that fell off was on the battery).

Apple does it better

[Whatchamacallit]

I've seen a few Apple Dealers and frankly, they are out of their league in regard to competing with the Apple store(s).

I purchased my first Apple in an Apple store after having first visited two Apple Dealers. I was amazed that unlike Gateway Country stores or even the dealers I didn't have to place an order and wait for delivery I could actually walk out of the store with product in hand!

Apple's store fronts are stocked with just about every product. (minus very new products that haven't shipped yet) Their sales people are knowledgable and helpful. The store layout is excellent, you can actually find what you are looking for.

The Apple Dealers are going the way of the DoDo and they are lashing out in frustration. The only way they can survive is to offer additional services that Apple doesn't offer. i.e. custom development, onsite service, etc. They need to build niche markets and pursue them. This means they will need to do more then simply buy and resell Apple products.

The Apple Dealers have been dwindling for years and the whole reason Apple started opening the stores was to create market visibility in the nations shopping malls. The death of the x86 Clone Mom & Pop shops is now befalling the Apple Dealers.

The Dealers may have been responsible for 50% of the Apple sales in the past but that is going to move to the Apple store fronts. Apple is expanding in many ways and the dealer base is simply not large enough to handle to increase.

Some ideas for Apple Dealers:
- Work with Graphics, PrintShops, and Sign makers.
- Create a POS (point of sale system)
- Create inventory systems
- Physical Asset management systems
- Etc, Etc. bring the Mac into new ventures.

Re:As a customer...

[Golias]

I'm with you. I've found the service at most Apple resellers to be even worse than what you get at a typical PC "screwdriver shop," while the staff at the Apple store has always fallen all over themselves to help me with every nit-picky little problem or question I have. Apple resellers taking it in the shorts? There might be a few good ones out there, but for most of them I call that karma.

In Holland, 'Apple Stores' are 3rd p. resellers

[Anonymous Coward]

Where I live, the Netherlands, we don't have the real Apple Stores but Apple Benelux encourages some 3rd party resellers to open stores with the Apple Store form factor etc.
for instance the 2 'Apple Stores' Amsterdam are Apple Center Centraal Station by MacSupport and MacHouse Amsterdam by MacHouse.
both resellers recieved financial aid to open their stores, as long as they looked like "Apple Stores"

Just bought an iMac

[Rudy Rodarte]

I just bought an iMac 2 Saturdays ago here in Austin. I had done all the research myself and I knew exactly what I wanted, but I waited until the Apple store opened up before buying? Why? I just felt better about buying there than from Fry's or CompUSA. Plus, I met the Mac Geniuses that would be taking care of me, if I ever come across something I can't fix myself.
All in all, it was a better customer experience, if you ask me.

Re:Bottom line

[kfs27]

disclaimer: i work for an apple reseller, network var, authorized repair shop.

why should your reseller call apple for you about a problem. they are a reseller. the warranty you receive is from apple. and apple fucks their resellers so much that it is not cost effective for the reseller to pay their tech whatever an hour to call apple for you.

apple made thousands off of you. the reseller only facilitated you not having to wait for the item to ship, and only made a few hundred bucks. why should they spend their time helping you.

Re:As a customer...

[Anonymous Coward]

Okay, so I'm not the only person who thinks the AK Mac Store is run by egotistical idiots. I avoid that place as much as I can. If I am looking for an accessory and CompUSA doesn't have it, I occasionally venture to the AK Mac Store. Only if I need it in a pinch, though, since their prices are higher than any mail order INCLUDING shipping! They use the excuse that it costs more to get stuff up here. But that excuse doesn't hold much water in the biggest city in Alaska these days. Our cost of living is 20% less than either "coast" in the lower 48!

If Hawaii can get an Apple Store, why not Alaska? We're less remote! :-)

Welcome to Free Enterprise

[tyrione]

A non-anonymous memo to all Apple Retailers.

Get off your fucking asses and invest in advertising campaigns to help sell your business. Apple wants to be more than a niche player who mostly caters to an ecclectic audience.

As Apple enters the Enterprise Markets what better way to demonstrate, regionally, the power of such Enterprise Services, than to be able to augment existing Apple Sales Points and bring in new potential businesses.

Waiting and coordinating with hundreds of independent resellers to do this is a complete waste of time.

Personally, I'd be leveraging the fact that Apple has a local presence near my business, advertise that you are an Apple Certified Reseller and coordinate with Apple to help push inventories.

being an apple reseller.

[Anonymous Coward]

For the record, I'm an apple tech. Desktop and portable. I've been doing this job for years, and I've ALWAYS worked for apple specialists. And, I'm somewhat on the fence regarding all of this.

Having worked for specialists, I've learned more about the mac, and this niche market than I ever thought I would. Back before the Apple Retail Stores, there were the catalogers, and the independent dealers. Within the dealers, there were resellers, and specialists. Resellers were places like CompUSA, etc who sold macs, along with everything else on the planet. Then, there were the specialists. The SP's were all mac. It was their bread and butter, their primary focus. They took care of it all. And today, despite the retail stores, we still do.

As an Apple Specialist, we're required to perform in and out of warranty service, staff certified technicians and a technical coordinator, perform in and out of warranty service, and we participate in Apple's Direct Dispatch program. All of the people I work with have been doing this as long as I have and longer. My owner can quote old beige system specs from memory, and can fix the antiquated dinosaurs that show up from time to time, with no problems. Me and my other techs can play "Name That Screw" which consists of picking up a screw from a machine, and being able to name not only every machine it goes into, but how many of that screw there are. (yes, we're huge nerds) My guys can go out on apple dispatches and repair machines onsite, and even correct the Apple support people when they send the wrong parts. My sales guys know what works, what doesnt, and how it all goes together. Similarly, we run our stores on nothing but mac's. Our point of sale stuff is mac based, along with our databases, and the like.

The problem however is cashflow, and it isnt all related to the Apple retail stores. Its a hard time to be a small dealer in the computer industry in general. Profit margins are very, and I mean very low. hypothetically figure that we buy an epson printer from ingram micro or tech data (the wholesale channels for retailers) and we spend $70. then, we have it shipped to our store. thats another $15. we're at $80. Epson is selling them for $79, and CompUSA bought a pallete of 1000 of them and is selling them with a $30 mail in rebate. Epson makes pure profit, Compusa gets a bulk discount, and we break even. Dont think there's much margin in machine sales either. There isnt. Apple is selling volume. Thats where their money is. The specialist culture grew up around selling the machines they love, fixing them, and offering the high end support that goes with them. All our money is made in services and third party items we make some margin off of. So, no matter what computer hardware your selling in a small shop, it's not easy.

As far as the Apple retail stores go, I find them very pretty, and they have a lot of stuff. And I commend that. It brings brand awareness to the platform. However...They tend to have a very high turn over of employees from what I can see thanks to the tysons corner and clarendon stores. Their sales people have a functional sales knowledge, but if you get over their heads, they automatically send you to the geniuses. The geniuses get two weeks training before they're put to work. Wow, thats a lot of training. I've spent ten years developing my skills. Unfortunately, I've also encountered times when the geniuses were backed up 6 deep with people waiting to be helped. I've also encountered instances where Apple told customers that they couldnt and wouldnt fix their machines, and that they should buy a new one. Yet, when they brought it to me, It took me about an hour, with a part I had in stock, to repair their our of warranty G4 Tower. (digital Audio machine)

I see things from both sides as I'm a consumer and I'm an employee of a Specialist. I love the Mac. Its the only computer I own. Thanks to the mac, I have a career, and a job I love. I could go corporate, and I could go apple. But corporate means wearing a tie, and Apple offer

Resellers... and info on MacAdam

[kageryu255]

I've worked for an Apple Specialist before, interviewed at another, and shopped at over half a dozen, so I've seen things from their perspective... yeah, there are occasionally little hassles with Apple.. but the local Apple rep responsible for our area worked his butt off to be a good liaison and make sure things went well.

I hate to repeat what everyone else on here has said, so I will just agree that most of the high rated posts in this thread are absolutely correct -- there are some excellent resellers, and some really terrible ones.. and they all seem to gravitate towards one end of the spectrum or the other. Slightly higher prices are understandable -- the smaller shops have much tighter margins and can't buy in the same volumes.. but the smart store operators can compete based on service, niche areas, store environment, all sorts of factors.. the used car sales guys just end up having a hard time and then scream bloody murder and blame everyone but themselves. On the subject of MacAdam, any time they get mentioned online, this page should be used as an excellent example of their behavior and Tom Santos' treatment of customers:

http://www.omino.com/~dom/readme/macadam.html
(be sure to check out his reply too!)

Maybe items like that, or their "unsatisfactory record" with the Better Business Bureau, or their poking around through confidential Apple databases might have something to do with that license revocation? IMNSHO, it's about time. Businesses like that give Apple Resellers & Apple Specialists a bad name, and then whine and pule about it when karma catches up with them.

Tangent: Just found an interesting op/ed piece that's definitely worth a skim:

http://adzoox.com/applestore.html

Anyway, just my 2.17 yen. There are some resellers who have healthy working relationships with Apple and do just fine. There are definitely some ways Apple could improve relations with them, but I think there are a large number of people at Apple that deserve much more credit than they are getting... along with many hard working people at Apple Specialists and Resellers who put in honest work, know their stuff, and take excellent care of customers, who deserve lots of business and respect. Then, there are some other characters who just need to STFU and go far, far away where they won't make anyone else's life any harder.

Third party stores need to step things up!

[Insolence2003]

I'm in the same boat here... I have two local reseller mac stores that are WAY too overpriced, and inside they both only have a front-area with a single desk that no one sits at, and a larger room in the back with a bunch of macs that I used about 5-6 years ago. They're a complete mess, have no prices anywhere for anything, no catalog, no displays, just ask some weird-looking guy, or his wife (or... whatever she is) whom you can ask how much something is, then they make a few calls to "someone" and tell you how much it is... which is always at least 4 times more than I can get it elsewhere. When I can get something cheaper at a CompUSA than a mac reseller... that is sad...

I think Apple and Jobs realized that macs were never really selling that well because their only business was repeat business. It was a niche/cult kinda thing, always was. With the move to these VERY awesome storefronts, they are showing off their cool, neat, innovative technologies to the public, attracting all kinds of new customers... and as you can tell, it's working! I praise Apple for their awesome innovations in design and technology, and hope to see some of these third party resellers step it up. I've seen a few good ones up in Silicon Valley, good mac area up there!

Ahhh well... maybe my opinions are biased, but come on now... just look at the Airport Express! There are NO devices on the market like it, so small, so cute, so feature-rich, so... awesome. I'm buying 3 of 'em myself! And for once... I think Apple priced it pretty damn well. Anyway... Viva la Apple! =P