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EU and US Agree on Galileo

An anonymous reader writes "The EU and USA have reached an agreement over the Galileo satellite positioning system, ending several years of negotiations." We had some good Galileo information in a story last month.

20 of 201 comments (clear)

  1. Its about time by Rei · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It's about time that the US give up on what was clearly becoming an impossible task: stopping the surge of demand for high accuracy civilian GPS. Kudos to them for reaching an agreement. :)

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    1. Re:Its about time by Alsee · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Kudos to them for reaching an agreement. :)

      Bah. The entire spat was the US (my government) bitching about wanting control high resolution signals for military use and being able to shut down or jam the normal public signals.

      The US failed to stop the EU from putting up their own system, but did get the EU to "compromize" by redesigning the system the way the US wanted - to be a clone of the US design. That way the US and EU can either agree and both shut off the public signal or the non-encrypted public singnal can be unilaterally JAMMED.

      It was never about preventing interference or improving features of the public signal. Why the hell would you need to pressure the EU to "compromise" about improving the the system?

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  2. Why duplication? by Omega1045 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    After ReadingTFA and looking at some of the past stuff on this issue, there is still not a clear reason (at least for me) to duplicate GPS. Why does Europe want to spend all that money? Couldn't they put up other sats with the money, like Internet, etc? Is it just a control thing i.e. the EU doesn't want to be at the mercy of the US on this (wouldn't blame them)?

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    1. Re:Why duplication? by Damiano · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The base reason is that US wants the ability to turn off civilain GPS when they want to. If Europe puts up a system that US doesn't have control over than turning off GPS becomes useless and they lose )what they believe to be) a tactical advantage.

    2. Re:Why duplication? by penguinoid · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Is it just a control thing i.e. the EU doesn't want to be at the mercy of the US on this (wouldn't blame them)?

      Correct. The US will gladly shut down civilian GPS in case of some "national emergency" so it wouldn't be used against them. If the US ever goes to war with the EU then they will need their own GPS to defend themselves with.

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    3. Re:Why duplication? by gsfprez · · Score: 2, Insightful

      if you think the US will gladly let anyone build a world-wide targeting system that anyone (North Korea, China, Iran, etc) can use at will, then you're dellusional.

      You don't know the whole story. I guarantee it.

      Besides - who's going to be able to build a guaranteed system? If you think the Euros can, then you're just fooling yourself further.

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    4. Re:Why duplication? by Stack_13 · · Score: 3, Insightful
      Being dependant on another nations goodwill on the accuracy of your navigation is most likely the primary reason for Galileo system . Granted, most of the EU is headed NATO way - but things may change, relationships can get cooler etc. EU wants to keep its options open.

      Another goal is to generate new EU aerospace and tech business. Wildest estimates are around $10bn of revenue per year, growing to $300bn by 2020

    5. Re:Why duplication? by Florian+Weimer · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The base reason is that US wants the ability to turn off civilain GPS when they want to. If Europe puts up a system that US doesn't have control over than turning off GPS becomes useless and they lose )what they believe to be) a tactical advantage.

      I wouldn't be too surprised if signal degradation as reuqested by US officials were part of the current agreement.

    6. Re:Why duplication? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You're double-stupid.

      First, the EU has no interest in giving the 'bad guy' nations an advantage. Simply put, these 'bad guy' nations already know that civilian GPS can be disabled at a moments notice and they would assume the same about this new GPS. Ergo, they would totally ignore any GPS guided munitions and go with the dozen or so other guidance methods out there.

      Second, regarding that article you posted, GPS jammers are totally useless in a war. Here are the two scenarios you'll see with them in use at war:

      Scenario 1: A low-powered GPS jammer or 3 protects a small area. Inbound munitions will be perfectly guided until the last 30 seconds (probably closer to 10). And by then, it really doesn't matter if the GPS signal goes, you're already on target.

      Scenario 2: A high-powered GPS jammer or 3 blocks a really big area. HARM missiles will solve your problem.

    7. Re:Why duplication? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Idiot, that is hardly the point. It is not so that the EU can turn off your access, it is so no outside nation can turn off their access. Nothing would stop the EU and the US from shutting them both down, if they chose to. However it would stop the US from saying "If you don't follow our lead in this illegal war, we will shut you down". It is one thing to have the power to deny access to your own people, quite another to have to hope that an outside nation won't pull the plug on you. I don't think this has anything to do with the EU being perfect, or their ability to do something awful. Its about having control over your own services.

      Now, if you want your argument to hold any water, then ask why the US hasn't abandoned GPS in favour of Galileo, leaving their GPS services in the hands of some other government? Oh, they don't trust the EU with something as critical as precision weapon targeting? Hmm. Maybe the EU feels the same way?

      It never ceases to amaze me how an American can on one hand see the issue being discussed with themselves as the victim with total clarity, yet be incapable of seeing the exact same point from the other side.

    8. Re:Why duplication? by Daniel+Dvorkin · · Score: 3, Insightful

      News flash: when your last military presence in a country in which you are fighting is Marine embassy guards trying to keep the crowds back from the evac helicopters, you have lost the war.

      We lost in Vietnam. And in so doing, we abandoned our allies to the tender mercies of the re-education camps. You can argue all day about why we lost, but that we lost -- and that we cut and run -- is undeniable. Only fools and fanatics feel otherwise.

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    9. Re:Why duplication? by Simon+Lyngshede · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Try the same issue in reverse. Assuming that you are an American, would you want France or Germany to control the only GPS system in the world? Sure, they are your friends, but still.

      What I don't understand is why the European Union even cares what the US thinks. We're the ones paying for the bloody thing, don't tell us how to spend our money. The US don't seem to care much about the opinions of the EU, why should we care what you think? Just build Galileo as originaly planned, it's not like we don't know how.

  3. Interesting Development by mfh · · Score: 3, Insightful

    "We have reached completion of a GPS-Galileo cooperation agreement," a US State Department official told reporters, calling the deal a "landmark" accord that would reap "profound benefits" for both the United States and Europe in the highly competitive satellite positioning market.

    Let me first say that it's nice to see the USA cooperating with Europe, but I have to wonder how much Blair's involvement in the Iraq war had to do with this agreement. Either way, it's nice to see the USA and other countries (like France) getting along.

    - a common signal structure for so-called "open" services, and a suitable signal structure for the Galileo Public Regulated Service (PRS).

    This should be nice to see at work. I'd like to hear more about those open services, and what they will be exactly.

    - a process allowing improvements, either jointly or individually, of the baseline signal structures in order to further improve performances.

    Nice feature of the agreement. I think this will benefit all involved if nobody tries to improve their side into incompatibility.

    - confirmation of inter-operable time and standards to facilitate the joint use of GPS and Galileo.

    Does this mean they'll use the UNIX timestamp, with micro time enabled? Or is this something else entirely?

    All in all, this almost appears like these governments are using the Open Source philosophy, or at least a small part of it. Hey, any step towards progress sounds great to me!

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  4. A possibility of more competition now by vg30e · · Score: 3, Insightful

    As different systems evolve, maybe we will see more devices hit the civilian market and prices drop, which could mean a win-win for all consumers.

  5. Win-win scenario by zeux · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It's a win-win scenario because Galileo will greatly improve GPS accuracy and Galileo will benefit from the experience of the GPS system.

    Too bad it took so long to reach an agreement and too bad the US never stopped to criticize a project that they are finally supporting.

  6. Here's to more US/Europe co-operation by pubjames · · Score: 4, Insightful


    Europe and the USA acting together could do this world a hell of a lot of good. Shame things have been so negative of late.

    What I'd really like to see is co-operation on reducing arms sales globally. The USA and Europe are currently the world's biggest arms merchants. And the mad thing is, we're selling them to countries that could easily turn around and bite us on the ass. Saudi Arabia for instance. If they turn against us - which isn't outside the realms of possibility at the moment - they will be able to put up one hell of a battle because we've been selling them advanced weaponary for decades. Madness.

  7. Dual Band by chaffed · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This will be interesting because I think we will see dual band recievers. Often for one reason or another (interference most likely) GPS will give you incorrect position or non at all. However if you have a reciever that can switch over to galileo then this could greatly help all who use GPS. Just think of all the current applications currently using GPS. Shipping, personal aircraft, recreation, wardrivers! Suddenly WiGle will become a lot more accurate.

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  8. More like US demands, EU says yes by t_allardyce · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Whats the US going to do? shoot them down? I don't think so, Europe could have done better than this rather than just give in sheepishly. Ive seen bush standing next to the queen he looks a kid standing next to the head-mistress, she could have come in there and said "i think we would quite like these frequencies" and then just walked out. One of the major points of galileo is that it is a system not to undermined by the us gps, it needs an equal footing to say "were here, you're not the only country in the world, get over it".

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  9. Re:Galileo / GPS compatibility by Ion+Berkley · · Score: 2, Insightful

    You will need new equipment, and please note that Galileo differs from GPS in that it offers a 'for money' commercial high accuracy signal also. But don't get upset and just blame the Europeans because the US is also about to change the GPS system, adding a new second civilan signal to the L2 band where there was formerly only only a secure (p-code) signal and also adding the new L5 frequency. In short if you want to work with all the new signals available by the end of the decade then you will be buying new hardware.

  10. why does the USA have to cooperate with Europe by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Im not saying they shouldn't work together and build a better system. But alot of people said it was nice that for the USA to cooperate with Europe. I see it the other way around, its nice Europe cooperates with the USA. The USA has the system up and running already and Europe wants to piggy back un the USA GPS system. They need to use the same frequency so thats what I read. So if anything they got to work with the Americans.

    Question?? The Americans and Europeans will be combining together into one system. But what happened to the Russian system? Why hasn't that gone commericial?