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Our Friend, The Meter

Posted by timothy on from the you-mean-people-like-nasa dept.

dbirchall writes "Upon hearing that SpaceShipOne reached 100km today, I did some hasty math based on the altitude in feet sttated by Scaled Composites in their press release, and was surprised to come up with a number under 100,000 meters. Fortunately, a friend pointed out that my inches-to-meters conversion was flawed. Some quick Googling determined that lots of people still have no idea how many inches are in a meter, even after some folks have had big problems because of conversion errors."

31 of 1,672 comments (clear)

  1. meter by loveandpeace · · Score: 5, Funny

    you mean it has nothing to do with iambic?

    1. Re:meter by LuxFX · · Score: 5, Funny

      In dutch 'meter' is used for both the measurement result and the measurement device.

      And in Chicago, 'meter' is a device that resulted in me having to pay hundreds dollars to park my car.

      --
      Punctanym: alternate spelling of words using punctuation or numerals in place of some or all of its letters; see 'leet'
  2. On in the US by gnuman99 · · Score: 5, Insightful
    This problem appears to occur only in the US. Even the British adopted the meter, and they invented the imperial units!

    Maybe it's the time for the US to join the metric world. At least we wouldn't loose that Mars probe!

    1. Re:On in the US by Osty · · Score: 5, Funny

      Maybe it's the time for the US to join the metric world

      Hell no! You'll get my inches, miles, and gallons when you pry them from my cold dead hands!


      At least we wouldn't loose that Mars probe!

      Loosing the probe was part of the mission design. To bad we lost it afterwards. It really sucks to lose something once you've set it loose.

    2. Re:On in the US by popeydotcom · · Score: 5, Insightful

      A lot of us brits, even those taught the metric system at work, still talk in feet and inches. Our road signs (like US ones) are all in Miles, and I don't see that changing any time soon. We buy beer and milk in pints and mostly weigh in stones and pounds and not kilos. Speed over water and air is still measured in knots, and our road speed limits are in miles per hour.

      So whilst we have "adopted" the metric system we still use the "old" measurements day-to-day.

    3. Re:On in the US by mark-t · · Score: 5, Interesting
      It's not nearly that big a deal, you know.

      Here in Canada made the switchover... in my lifetime, even.

      I had just barely started school when I first heard that that Canada would be moving to the metric system. At the time, there were fewer than 10 countries worldwide that did not yet use the metric system.

      Today, the USA alone bears the distinction of being the only nation on the planet that has not yet made any sort of government sponsored effort to switch to the metric system. I find this slightly amusing personally.

      The conversion didn't happen overnight in Canada, and in many situations, people still use the imperial measurements. The signage has all been changed, of course... but a lot of people still think in imperial units, so they still get used. I estimate that it will probably take another 40 years before this country really doesn't use imperial units anymore.

      Personal anecdote: not that long ago, I was describing something to my kids and mentioned a measurement in yards. My children had no idea how long a "yard" was until I described the length with my hands... to which they said "Oh, you mean a metre!" As the measurement I was citing to them was just an estimate anyways, I told them yes... but I told them that a yard was about 3 and a third inches shorter than a metre. I got another blank stare at the word "inch", at which point I told them there is 36 inches in a yard... Suffice to say I was certainly not winning their approval of my archaic measuring technology.

      They just shook their heads and said that the metric system is so much better. Personally, I agree... but it's hard to change what you first learn. That's why I give it another 40 years... there's still too many working class adults that are using the imperial system here.

      --
      File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
    4. Re:On in the US by Waffle+Iron · · Score: 5, Interesting
      That was the wise way to go about the conversion. Here in the U.S., they tried to do it ass-backwards. Back in the 70s or 80s, they tacked little "kph" conversions onto speed-limit signs and speedometers to help everyone get "acclimated". This just pissed off and confused everyone with extra tiny numbers, and it was applied to an area of measurement that really isn't very important to metricize. (You can't even do easy physics calculations unless you use m/s anyway.)

      The net result was a backlash that delayed adoption of the metric system here by decades. Instead of the in-your-face road signs, they should have just quietly started converting smaller things over and let the old system fade away gradually.

      We probably will eventually switch over, but this won't happen until after our capability to design or manufacture anything domestically has totally atrophied, and we rely on 100% metric imported goods.

    5. Re:On in the US by Bootsy+Collins · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Do you ever buy soda in two liter bottles?

      Cecil Adams pointed out that it's a lot easier to switch than most people think. The way to do it isn't to label everything in both imperial units and metric units; it's to just do it. Instead of labelling each gallon jug of milk with the fact that one gallon = 3.74 liters, thus making the metric system seem comparatively complicated (when in fact, it's less so), the right thing to do is to get rid of gallon jugs and replace them with four liter containers. We see two liter and half-liter soda bottles running around and everyone's fine with it now. Remember a couple of "temperature calibration points" -- water freezes at 0C, 20C = a nice spring day, 34 = Miami in July -- and dealing with the temperature scale change becomes fairly easy. It's trivial when you just do it.

      Oh, and as an aside, while you may be very comfortable with miles and pounds and gallons (and, I'd guess, Fahrenheit degrees), how many other imperial units are you comfortable with? Most people aren't familiar with very many. How many people are comfortable with rods, links, chains, bushels, and pecks? How many people understand fluid ounces and ounces of weight (not understand that there's a difference, but what that difference is, and how they're related)? Can you picture an acre in your head fairly accurately? Most people in the U.S. can't, despite the fact that it's the most commonly used unit of land area. For most of us, for most purposes, imperial units are useless because we don't even understand them. One thing that metric units buys you is that the whole thing hangs together, is internally consistent. If any of it makes sense, it all does. I can't visualize an acre, but I can easily visualize a hectare, the corresponding unit of the metric system -- a square that's 100 meters (a little longer than an American football field) on a side.

    6. Re:On in the US by Procrasti · · Score: 5, Funny

      You'll get my inches, miles, and gallons when you pry them from my cold dead hands!

      Shouldn't that be - "You'll get my inches, miles and gallons when you pry them from my cold dead feet!"

  3. Just Remember 2.54 by SnowZero · · Score: 5, Insightful

    1 inch = 2.54 centimeters

    It's fairly easy to remember, and everything else regarding length conversions can be derived from it. It also happens to be the official definition of the inch, since NIST uses metric internally.

    1. Re:Just Remember 2.54 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I couldn't agree more, after all, 2.54 is a really easy number to remember and since I'm an American living in Norway, I find that I still convert a great deal. My coversions are generally based on quick conversions.

      For example, if there are 2.2lbs in a kg. Then it's easy enough to use the quick multiply by 11 rule and then multiply by two (or reverse order). So for 52kg it's easy to say that 5 + 2 = 7 so 52*11 = 572 or 52 * 1.1 = 57.2 and 57.2 * 2 = 114.4. So 52kg = 114.4lbs.

      As for feet to meters. There are a few quick conversion that aren't of great precision, but accurate enough for day to day life. For example, 3m = 10ft, 1 in. = 2.54cm, 1m = 40in. Of course for precision, I would alway use the 2.54 and a calculator to derive that there are 39.37007874015748031496062992126 inches in a meter. But with the engineering work that I do, it's more typical to simply derive directly the units by converting to and from centimeters and not meters.

      As for volume. I of course for quick calculation simply relate the liter to the quart since when it comes to serving drinks, there's not a great deal of difference. When I need precision, it's easy to remember the numbers I've seen on American Coca-Cola bottles my entire life. A 2 liter bottle always says 67.6 fluid ounces on it. This is my base point for conversion since I can deduce that 33.8 fl oz is 1 liter. From there it's all easy.

      For temperature, that's a no brainer. 0c is freezing, 100c is boiling. 32F is freezing, 212F is boiling. So 212 - 32 = 180 and 100 - 0 = 100. Therefore it's easy to asume that 180/100 is the ration. That easily converts to 9/5. Compensate for the 32 degree shift on the farenheit side.

      After living here for 5.5 years and effectively performing as a calculator for everyone that needs conversions. I can convert the systems with utter ease and simplicity. I have multiple reference points which I can use in order to estimate measures within a 5% margin or error for all human weights and heights. I also can convert distances with ease (after all 60miles = 100km. 100miles = 160km, it's all gravy from there).

      So what it boils down to is that if you can get through school in any country without understanding that both systems are just REALLY REALLY simple. Then go back to school and work on it. Let's face it, there's too much stupidity on this planet. If you can remember there's 12 inches in a foot and 8 oz in a cup, then you can remember 3 points of conversion reference and derive the rest.

      Oops... almost submitted without adding this to make the stinkin brits happy, first of all, ASE measurement is not imperial although it has much in common. The imperial measure has a different size for the volumetric measure. Instead of 33.8140226 U.S. fl. oz. in the imperial system has 35.1950652 fl. oz. in a liter.

  4. Re:Legacy Measurement System by fucksl4shd0t · · Score: 5, Funny

    The scale measured in Kg and I was able to say, "whoa! that's X pounds!"

    Your kid only weighs X pounds? Sorry to hear that. My 10 month old baby boy is weighing in right about XXX pounds right now. And he's starting to walk!

    Hmmmm, am I the only one left using Roman numbers? I guess if I'm gonna use this metric thing I'm going to have to upgrade to Arabic numbers, eh? Nah, it would cost too much.

    --
    Like what I said? You might like my music
  5. Re:Why should I care? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    How many stone do you weigh?

  6. Re:American bashing? by drag88 · · Score: 5, Informative

    Base 10 system?
    Using prefixes to express multiples of base units?
    No memorizing antiquated and imprecise ratios?

    You have a base unit for every type of measurement; length(m), mass(g), weight(N), pressure(Pa), energy (J), etc. Just add prefixes and numerical values and you're all set! So easy..

  7. It's not hard... Use "units" by vip223 · · Score: 5, Informative
    Need to know the conversion factor? Use the (lesser known?) unix utility, units
    [lupin:~] josh$ units
    500 units, 54 prefixes
    You have: metres
    You want: inches
    * 39.370079
    / 0.0254
    You have: rods/hogshead
    You want: kilometres/litre
    * 1.5816358e-05
    / 63225.68
    Oh, and by the way, in Australia, we spell it Metre, not meter (that's what the gas man checks)
    Josh
  8. True story.. by James_G · · Score: 5, Funny
    In England, all construction work has traditionally been done in imperial. At some point, in the last 6 or 7 years, people started moving to metric. Possibly as a result of legislation - I'm not sure.

    Anyone with half a brain can realise the the problem with making this change, especially in an environment where you're working with existing materials. The following is a genuine conversation I had while out buying some 4 inch guttering:

    Me: Hi, I need some 4 inch guttering.
    Plumbing shop: Oh sorry, we don't have any 4 inch guttering.
    Me: How can you not have any? This sucks!
    Plumbing shop: As luck would have it, we do have some 101.6mm guttering that is exactly the same size.
    Me: I'll take it!

  9. Re:It matters because by mopomi · · Score: 5, Informative
    Dude, this Dan Birchall is not a NASA administrator of any kind (look at his home page). He's a freelance writer/web page designer/executive director of SpamCon, if I have the right Dan Birchall.

    There is, in fact, no Birchall in administration at NASA, and as far as I can find, there is no Birchall associated with NASA.

    The program director of NASA's Mars program is Scott Hubbard. http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/newsroom/pressreleases/00 -10-26.html (search for mars program director)

  10. At first i thought this post was stupid by jdigital · · Score: 5, Interesting

    READ - Click on posters link

    This evening, I learned that one meter equals 39.3700787 inches. While this may come as no surprise to some people, it was one to me - for years, I had mistakenly believed a meter was 39.77 inches, and now I know it's basically 39.37.

    Of course, I'm not alone in my confusion. A bit of research on Google revealed quite a few different conversions from meters to inches. Here are some of them:

    * 38 inches according to a page at Arkansas State University and another at Microflex Technologies.
    * 38.16 inches according to a rounding-happy math teacher at Norfolk Collegiate School in Virginia.
    * 38.37 inches according to Honeywell's Sensotec folks.
    * 38.8 inches according to some numerological babble
    * 39 inches according to Fife Products and some folks who sell quilting products.
    * 39.14 inches according to the specifications on a measuring wheel for engineers. (uh-oh!)
    * 39.15 inches according to an October 30 2002 entry in a blog.
    * 39.21 inches according to Richard Bowles.
    * 39.27 inches according to pages at University of Wisconsin Stevens Point and the National Optical Astronomy Observatory.
    * 39.28 inches according to Jonathan Brooks at Penn State University.
    * 39.3 inches according to some laser folks.
    * 39.34 inches according to a page about photography, and another about a role-playing game. Hey, it's only a game, their meters can be whatever length they want.
    * 39.36 inches according to some ham radio sorts and some NASA folks among others. Pretty close... but... shouldn't NASA know better by now?
    * 39.38 inches according to people who race 1-meter model yachts, talk about prehistory in California, and, um, other NASA folks. Again, pretty close!
    * 39.39 inches according to someone ranting against metric (how ironic), as well as a page about UFOs.
    * 39.4 inches according to a list of conversions from a company that makes electric motors and such things, and the Secretary of the Navy.
    * 39.45 inches according to a set of math problems from a university in the Philippines.
    * 39.5 inches according to a space.com article on liquid lenses.
    * 39.54 inches according to Mark Moburg in this mailing list archive.
    * 39.6 inches according to a page about magnetic therapy.
    * 39.7 inches according to pages from Des Moines Area Community College and some rounding-happy laser people.
    * 39.77 inches according to a page about carpet-weaving in Turkey and another site that sells S-Video Cables and lots of other cables. (See, I wasn't alone!)
    * 39.79 inches according to InterlinkBT (now Turck)'s information on DeviceNet Pre-molded Fieldbus cables (below table).
    * 39.87 inches, according to a textfile compiling handy (if wrong) conversions for common weights and measures, from O'Reilly.
    * 39.97 inches, according to the Science Glossary developed by teachers in the Poughkeepsie (New York) City School District for the 2001-2002 school year, and according to the zoning laws on satellite dishes in Springfield Township, Ohio.
    * 40 inches, according to the U.S. Department of Agriculture.

    Once again, the correct answer is right around 39.37 inches. Remember that - it'll be on the quiz!

    --
    :wq ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
  11. Re:It matters because by dbirchall · · Score: 5, Informative
    Actually, I did submit it... I should probably have just included all the HTML of the linked page instead. :)

  12. We already have by mlg9000 · · Score: 5, Informative

    The metric system (SI now) is the only official unit of measurement the US government has ever adopted. It did so way back in 1893. (1866 it became a legal unit of measure). What they didn't do though, was require it's use. So since the older imperial system was still widely in use it lived on. (Some of it anyway.. nobody knows what a stone is for example) Congress went back and required the metric system's use for all goverment purposes in 1988 (unless the infomation is for public use where it can be either).

    So really we use a mix of both here. In school they teach almost entirely in metric... makes the math easier to deal with when to have to convert to smaller/larger units. Common stuff like speed limits, weight, tempature, and long distances are measured in mph/pounds/fahrenheit/miles. If you go to the store, or use any tools though it's 50/50.. so smaller units like liters/grams/centimeters I think most people know pretty well.

  13. Re:Why should I care? by oleimann · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Just because we don't want to, doesn't mean we can't.

    We wouldn't have come this far if we weren't a lazy people - that particular trait is the cause of most of our (household) inventions and technological progress.

    Having a single, global frame of reference for technical units, which also happens to calculate easily, makes technical development not only faster, but also improves international cooperation.

    Sticking to one's own system is just another extra point for one's will for isolationism.

  14. Re:Quick note.. by RzUpAnmsCwrds · · Score: 5, Funny

    "When, or if, you americans actually do adopt the metric system, it's spelled Metre.."

    Right. I'm going to go to the tyre centre and have them look under the bonnet.

    I'll fill my auto with 40 litres of petrol, much less than my neighbour's red-coloured auto which requires 80 litres of petrol. My auto is awful, though, so it's going to the scrapheap. For now, maybe I can bodge something to make my auto look better. At least the two hundred kilogrammes of scrap aluminium are worth something, according to the recycling programme I watched yesterday.

    "Of course, this is just me being a nit-picky bastard."

    No, it's you not understanding that American English spells things differently from British English.

    The accepted American English spellings are "Meter", "Liter", and "Gram".

  15. Re:Reason for Imperial units by rooijan · · Score: 5, Insightful
    You seem to assume that everyone else's windows come in imperial measurements and we all spend our time converting to metric to do difficult sums just for the hell of it. In a metric country, like South Africa, our windows come in nice round metric numbers (138cm is a common one), like all our other measurements.

    Obviously you would find it difficult to use metric if all the products you are using are made with imperial measurements that are "nice" numbers. Just bear in mind that other peoples products come with "nice" metric measurements.

    Also, I prefer metric becasue I was born after it was adopted and it's all I know, certainly. But it does seem that if everything is ten more than the previous level it's a lot more consistent than imperial where the number of x's in y differs depending on what type of measurement you're talking about.

    --
    Daar is nie 'n lepel nie
  16. Arguments against the metric system by marinebane · · Score: 5, Insightful

    every time somebody makes an argument against the metric system, they are essentially also making that same argument agaisnt the arabic (our) number system. to use a number system with a base of 10 and not use units with a base of 10 is illogical, and impractical where units with a base of 10 are much easier to manipulate using a number system with a base of 10.

  17. Re:At least we know. by xagon7 · · Score: 5, Funny

    "Hey, at lease people in those other space agencies know how to speak English, unlike Americans. ;-)"

    1. it is least not lease

    Yes, an American has corrected your spelling.

    Perhaps you should learn how to check your writing AND math.

  18. Re:Quick note.. by MochaMan · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Amazingly, you're speaking and writing English. So use the logically correct spelling, or change the way you pronounce it to match how you spell it. You fucking idiot.

    I, for won, am exited tu help yu re-rite Inglish literachure, in yore new language. "The Nites Of The Round Tabel" iz so much better than chainjing the pronunsiashun tu "the kuh-nig-hets of the raund tahbluh"

    How 'bout we all just calm down and realise that no matter how much you rant about one retarded system being better than another retarded system, English simply has fucked up spelling and that's that?

    If you truly do feel passionately that meter is better than metre, then please "use your fucking brain" and start spelling table in a way that's consistent with label (as English and Americans alike pronounce it).

    On the topic of units of measurement, please feel free to explain why this "pint" unit is still spelled like mint, hint, dint, lint, tint, vint, glint and any other word ending in 'int'. Yes indeed, the Americans have certainly got this spelling thing all worked out once and for all. Pity the rest of us haven't picked up the fantastic system work they've done.

  19. Another: True story - Irish by alephnull42 · · Score: 5, Funny

    Similar story, over 10 years ago when Ireland went metric (apologies if my attemps at written brogue sound like talk-like-a-pirate-day):

    My dad: Good morning, I'd like some quarter inch pipe please
    Hardware guy: Ah no surrr, we have the metric system now surr, it's all in millimeters.
    My dad: Ok fine, I need some 8mm pipe
    Hardware guy: Foine, foine! How many feet would you like?

    --
    Not confused enough? http://translate.google.com/translate?u=www.slashdot.jp&hl=en&ie=UTF8&sl=ja&tl=en
  20. Yup ... by taniwha · · Score: 5, Interesting

    My Dad wrote a gardening book, when NZ went metric they 'translated it to metric' ... converted all the places where he said "plant the seeds an inch apart" to "plant the seeds about 2.54cm apart" .... silly of course and people quickly learned to do the everyday approximations we mostly use for day to day usage. 50mph is the speedlimit because it's a ound number in the right range, so is 80kph. Buying a pound of meat for dinner is about the same as buying 1/2 a kilo - both will get you fed about right. Half a litre is about a pint, a metre is about a yard. A 2x4 is about a 10x20 etc etc ... honestly I don't understand why americans are so scared about changing

  21. Re:Quick note.. by donscarletti · · Score: 5, Funny

    There is a fair bit of arrogance renaming someone else's measurements without using them yourself. What are you going to do next rename Bordeaux into Bordo so you can get your heads around other French concepts?

    --
    When Argumentum ad Hominem falls short, try Argumentum ad Matrem
  22. Re:At least we know. by Dashing+Leech · · Score: 5, Interesting
    What, they have switched to metric then?

    I wish. We've had to deal with everything in inches for years from NASA, now our requirements are a mix. They say we need to detect 1/4" damage from 5 to 7 feet moving at up to 1 meter/min and 1" damage from 7 to 10 feet at up to 3 meters/min. To make matters worse, our scanner measures in millimeters, so we have to convert the spec to mm anyway to know that we can meet the spec. And this is a safety-of-flight program to ensure the shuttle is not damaged.

  23. Re:THIS IS NOT FUNNY 1.0 inch = 2.540000cm by thedillybar · · Score: 5, Informative
    Actually 1 inch exactly equals 2.54 cm.

    The US Metric Law of 1866 said that one meter was equal to 39.37 inches, exactly. In 1959, the relationship between inches and centimeters was redefined to be that one inch is equal to 2.54 centimeters, exactly. Maps produced by the US Coast and Geodetic Survey continued to use the old standard. To clarify which foot you are talking about, the old foot, derived from 1 meter = 39.37 inches (exactly), is referred to as the "US survey foot". The new foot, derived from 1 inch = 2.54 cm (exactly), is referred to as the "international foot".