Question for you- why compile to Javascript rather than a new interpreter directly in Chrome?
To allow for the widest possible cross-browser app compatibility today. Dart currently support all modern browsers (back to IE9) - forcing users to use Chrome would divide the web, which is the last thing we want to do. That said, we're working on getting the VM into Chrome, but really that comes down to an added performance boost. We expect most developers will target JS to ensure cross-browser compatibility. It's entirely possible (encouraged, even) to deploy both.
The last thing I want to do is write in one language, compile it to another, then need to debug across language boundaries.
The good news is that you can write and debug purely in Dart and test in Dartium (Chromium + DartVM) with no compile step today. The dart2js step is a deployment step. Obviously, you'd want to do the usual testing of the final compiled output in a few browsers just like you'd do with a JS app today, but for development you can live entirely in Dart.
It really doesn't answer the question of what happens when Google proper loses interest and pulls funding. Does it survive on its own, or vanish?
There's really no possible satisfying answer to that question without knowing the reasons for the hypothetical future loss of interest/support on Google's part. One could ask similar questions about any language with equally unsatisfying answers.
The project is open source and headed for ECMA standardization - both of those are both very positive from the point of view of future continuity. The best anyone can answer is that if such a situation ever should come to pass, the project is in the best possible position to have the community/someone else pick up the torch. If that's not satisfying enough, then waiting and watching is perhaps the best strategy.
Dart team member here. The Dart project, like Chromium, is being run as a fully open source project accepting patches from Googlers and non-Googlers alike. We've also begun the ECMA Standardization process, meaning that like JavaScript we'll have a open standard that anyone can implement to. In terms of Dart users, here's a list of some. Hope that answers your questions!
The fact that Facebook and Apple are Google's competitors in certain markets -- namely advertising and mobile eco-system -- doesn't diminish his point that a walled-garden, unsearchable web (Facebook) is a poor substitute for what we had 10 years ago, and that a walled-garden mobile eco-system that ties you to a single hardware vendor (Apple) is similarly no good. Google+ posts are searchable on Bing or any other search engine and if you don't link your Samsung Galaxy SII, you can replace it with an HTC Rezound or a Motorola Razr Maxx without losing your apps or data.
You haven't addressed the points he makes about Facebook and Apple, nor his concern about governments imposing restrictions on use of the internet and surveillance legislation that affects internet users' privacy. Stating that Facebook and Apple are competitors isn't insightful - it's obvious, and it doesn't invalidate his argument.
Easy fix. Upper-right corner of the search results: click "hide personal results" (the globe icon). If you want to get rid of them permanently: settings drop-down, "Do not use personal results" radio button.
Not to mention they don't cover the fact that while the 3G was updated, the updates (particularly iOS4) left it barely useable. Tap camera... wait 30s... shutter opens. Tap Maps... wait 1 min... maps crashes. Tap it again... another crash... phone starting to heat up now. At first I thought it was faulty hardware, but my wife's had essentially the same problems.
Can't be bothered to look it up, but if it is illegal, it certainly doesn't stop any of the shops near my place from selling them... and you don't often see people openly flouting even minor laws here.
Having grown up on the West Coast of Canada, and lived in California and 5 years in Japan... this earthquake was barely even noticeable in Montreal, despite co-workers panicking. Potted plant balanced on my cubicle wall still sitting there. A lot of overreaction in a region not used to earthquakes.
Japan is again considering to introduce DST even though we already concluded it won't work in Japan for cultural/geometrical reasons decades ago.
I don't want DST here either, but let's at least roll back one hour all year long. It's insane that the sun comes up at 4am in summer time and goes down at 7:30pm. A whole 2-3 hours of daylight is lost while we sleep! I'd much rather have it light from 5am-8:30pm in summer and 7am-5:30 in winter than what we have today.
Might not matter as much in Okinawa, but I know it bothers me in Tokyo, and it'd be worse in Hokkaido.
Re:If you want to see the real Cuba, go now...
on
Fidel Castro Resigns
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· Score: 1
There are definitely crumbling buildings in Havana. That said, I agree, Cuba is a very unique experience, and well worth visiting. When the embargo ends one day, it'll be a vastly different country. I'm not convinced it'll be better or worse, just very different.
And here I'd thought Bush was still pissed off at Canada for not joining his war in Iraq. I guess with Harper begging to be next in line to kiss his arse, things are looking rosier again.
I suspect that the hi-def pictures Japan's lunar orbiter sent home a few weeks back did not go without notice in China. Oh, you never know, they may well have gone completely un-noticed in China;)
This has nothing to do with taking a poke at either the Japanese or the Americans. This type of invasion of privacy is wrong no matter where it takes place. We should all be making it clear to both these countries that this won't be tolerated.
Canada does allow dual citizenship. My guess as to Canada's policy on this is "we won't tell if you don't, but realize that you'd be breaking the law in Japan (but not in Canada)"
You're absolutely correct: the Japanese cannot force Canada to strip you of your citizenship.
The Japanese can and do require a letter from the Canadian government stating that you have renounced your citizenship and that they will strip you of it once the Japanese government grants Japanese citizenship. If I remember correctly, most countries are signatories to a UN treaty that makes it illegal for a country to strip you of citizenship if it will leave you stateless, which is why the two-phase approach.
If you obtain Japanese citizenship, then don't follow through with renouncing your other citizenship, the Japanese may strip you of your Japanese citizenship.
Having the history of every place you've lived or worked since you got to Japan right there on the back of your card is very handy when filling out those address update forms at the post office!
I wish I could think of a sarcastic remark for that time they put the big yellow banners up in Shinagawa station encouraging everyone to turn in foreign criminals. If the Japanese spent as much money on fighting crime in general instead of blindly blaming the gaijin, the crime rate might not still be climbing.
First off, if you follow Japanese politics, this is much less reciprocity than it is collaboration.
Secondly, I think we can all agree that both the Japanese and the US policies are an invasion of privacy. No one should be pleased that either exists. The fact that the US has a similar program in place has no bearing on the fact that this policy is crap regardless of the country implementing it.
I haven't visited the US since they've implemented their policy and, as a resident of Japan, the next time I leave the country, I won't be returning until this policy is revoked.
From my point of view, it means that when we move back to Canada, I won't be accompanying my wife and daughter on trips back to visit her grand-parents in Kyoto. It means that for the next few years, unless I want to be fingerprinted, my holidays will be taken within the country. To anyone seriously concerned with this system and/or willing to take a stand against it, this places some serious restrictions on your ability to move freely.
Japan is one of few countries that maintain that you must renounce all other citizenship to become a citizen. Dual-citizenship is only permissible for children born to a Japanese and foreign couple, and only then until age 20, after which the individual is given two years to renounce one or the other.
Accept Japanese citizenship -- thanks but no thanks, I'd rather have the flexibility of my existing Canadian passport. If it means my whole family has to pack its bags and we move back to Canada, so that I can stop having my taxes go to support a repressive government that treats me like a criminal, I'll happily leave Japan to the demographic disaster looming on the horizon.
Given this country's low birthrate, aging population, and pension plan on the brink of collapse, immigration is the only answer. If the Japanese government believes that it can sustain population/economic growth while treating immigrants like criminals, this country will get what it deserves. The rest of us will be watching it collapse from the countries we've returned home to.
Slashdot Mirror
Also, to address the license/patent issues, Dart is provided under a BSD-like license and includes a patent grant.
Dart was submitted for ECMA standardization early this year and is now ECMA-408.
[Disclaimer: I work on the Dart team]
Question for you- why compile to Javascript rather than a new interpreter directly in Chrome?
To allow for the widest possible cross-browser app compatibility today. Dart currently support all modern browsers (back to IE9) - forcing users to use Chrome would divide the web, which is the last thing we want to do. That said, we're working on getting the VM into Chrome, but really that comes down to an added performance boost. We expect most developers will target JS to ensure cross-browser compatibility. It's entirely possible (encouraged, even) to deploy both.
The last thing I want to do is write in one language, compile it to another, then need to debug across language boundaries.
The good news is that you can write and debug purely in Dart and test in Dartium (Chromium + DartVM) with no compile step today. The dart2js step is a deployment step. Obviously, you'd want to do the usual testing of the final compiled output in a few browsers just like you'd do with a JS app today, but for development you can live entirely in Dart.
It really doesn't answer the question of what happens when Google proper loses interest and pulls funding. Does it survive on its own, or vanish?
There's really no possible satisfying answer to that question without knowing the reasons for the hypothetical future loss of interest/support on Google's part. One could ask similar questions about any language with equally unsatisfying answers.
The project is open source and headed for ECMA standardization - both of those are both very positive from the point of view of future continuity. The best anyone can answer is that if such a situation ever should come to pass, the project is in the best possible position to have the community/someone else pick up the torch. If that's not satisfying enough, then waiting and watching is perhaps the best strategy.
It's started the process of ECMA standardization.
Dart team member here. The Dart project, like Chromium, is being run as a fully open source project accepting patches from Googlers and non-Googlers alike. We've also begun the ECMA Standardization process, meaning that like JavaScript we'll have a open standard that anyone can implement to. In terms of Dart users, here's a list of some. Hope that answers your questions!
The fact that Facebook and Apple are Google's competitors in certain markets -- namely advertising and mobile eco-system -- doesn't diminish his point that a walled-garden, unsearchable web (Facebook) is a poor substitute for what we had 10 years ago, and that a walled-garden mobile eco-system that ties you to a single hardware vendor (Apple) is similarly no good. Google+ posts are searchable on Bing or any other search engine and if you don't link your Samsung Galaxy SII, you can replace it with an HTC Rezound or a Motorola Razr Maxx without losing your apps or data.
You haven't addressed the points he makes about Facebook and Apple, nor his concern about governments imposing restrictions on use of the internet and surveillance legislation that affects internet users' privacy. Stating that Facebook and Apple are competitors isn't insightful - it's obvious, and it doesn't invalidate his argument.
Easy fix. Upper-right corner of the search results: click "hide personal results" (the globe icon). If you want to get rid of them permanently: settings drop-down, "Do not use personal results" radio button.
Not to mention they don't cover the fact that while the 3G was updated, the updates (particularly iOS4) left it barely useable. Tap camera... wait 30s... shutter opens. Tap Maps... wait 1 min... maps crashes. Tap it again... another crash... phone starting to heat up now. At first I thought it was faulty hardware, but my wife's had essentially the same problems.
On further digging I call bullshit. Let's see a valid citation that claims sale of used games is illegal.
Here are some showing it isn't:
http://www.gamepro.com/article/news/22924/used-game-sales-upheld-in-japan/ [2002]
Online shopping for used games:
http://www.suruga-ya.jp/game.html
Used games flourish in Japan:
http://www.hudsonent.com/user/feature.php?f=IT_CAME_FROM_JAPAN__Used_Games_Market&feature_id=%99%A4%A7%AA%96%A5
Can't be bothered to look it up, but if it is illegal, it certainly doesn't stop any of the shops near my place from selling them... and you don't often see people openly flouting even minor laws here.
Having grown up on the West Coast of Canada, and lived in California and 5 years in Japan... this earthquake was barely even noticeable in Montreal, despite co-workers panicking. Potted plant balanced on my cubicle wall still sitting there. A lot of overreaction in a region not used to earthquakes.
Names, phone numbers, email and snail-mail addresses:
http://webinfo.parl.gc.ca/MembersOfParliament/MainMPsCompleteList.aspx?TimePeriod=Current&Language=E
is what we Canadians call it... eh :P
I don't want DST here either, but let's at least roll back one hour all year long. It's insane that the sun comes up at 4am in summer time and goes down at 7:30pm. A whole 2-3 hours of daylight is lost while we sleep! I'd much rather have it light from 5am-8:30pm in summer and 7am-5:30 in winter than what we have today.
Might not matter as much in Okinawa, but I know it bothers me in Tokyo, and it'd be worse in Hokkaido.
There are definitely crumbling buildings in Havana. That said, I agree, Cuba is a very unique experience, and well worth visiting. When the embargo ends one day, it'll be a vastly different country. I'm not convinced it'll be better or worse, just very different.
And here I'd thought Bush was still pissed off at Canada for not joining his war in Iraq. I guess with Harper begging to be next in line to kiss his arse, things are looking rosier again.
Write your MP and express your views.
Man... the poor guy can't even get away from Picard on Slashdot!
This has nothing to do with taking a poke at either the Japanese or the Americans. This type of invasion of privacy is wrong no matter where it takes place. We should all be making it clear to both these countries that this won't be tolerated.
Canada does allow dual citizenship. My guess as to Canada's policy on this is "we won't tell if you don't, but realize that you'd be breaking the law in Japan (but not in Canada)"
You're absolutely correct: the Japanese cannot force Canada to strip you of your citizenship.
The Japanese can and do require a letter from the Canadian government stating that you have renounced your citizenship and that they will strip you of it once the Japanese government grants Japanese citizenship. If I remember correctly, most countries are signatories to a UN treaty that makes it illegal for a country to strip you of citizenship if it will leave you stateless, which is why the two-phase approach.
If you obtain Japanese citizenship, then don't follow through with renouncing your other citizenship, the Japanese may strip you of your Japanese citizenship.
Having the history of every place you've lived or worked since you got to Japan right there on the back of your card is very handy when filling out those address update forms at the post office!
I wish I could think of a sarcastic remark for that time they put the big yellow banners up in Shinagawa station encouraging everyone to turn in foreign criminals. If the Japanese spent as much money on fighting crime in general instead of blindly blaming the gaijin, the crime rate might not still be climbing.
First off, if you follow Japanese politics, this is much less reciprocity than it is collaboration.
Secondly, I think we can all agree that both the Japanese and the US policies are an invasion of privacy. No one should be pleased that either exists. The fact that the US has a similar program in place has no bearing on the fact that this policy is crap regardless of the country implementing it.
I haven't visited the US since they've implemented their policy and, as a resident of Japan, the next time I leave the country, I won't be returning until this policy is revoked.
From my point of view, it means that when we move back to Canada, I won't be accompanying my wife and daughter on trips back to visit her grand-parents in Kyoto. It means that for the next few years, unless I want to be fingerprinted, my holidays will be taken within the country. To anyone seriously concerned with this system and/or willing to take a stand against it, this places some serious restrictions on your ability to move freely.
Japan is one of few countries that maintain that you must renounce all other citizenship to become a citizen. Dual-citizenship is only permissible for children born to a Japanese and foreign couple, and only then until age 20, after which the individual is given two years to renounce one or the other.
Accept Japanese citizenship -- thanks but no thanks, I'd rather have the flexibility of my existing Canadian passport. If it means my whole family has to pack its bags and we move back to Canada, so that I can stop having my taxes go to support a repressive government that treats me like a criminal, I'll happily leave Japan to the demographic disaster looming on the horizon.
Given this country's low birthrate, aging population, and pension plan on the brink of collapse, immigration is the only answer. If the Japanese government believes that it can sustain population/economic growth while treating immigrants like criminals, this country will get what it deserves. The rest of us will be watching it collapse from the countries we've returned home to.