Call For A New Default Theme For Mozilla Sunbird

synopsis5 writes "The developers of Mozilla Sunbird, the standalone version of Mozilla Calendar, are looking for a new default theme and are asking the community to build a new one. Interested theme creators should read the guidelines posted in the MozillaZine Themes forum, which feature complete details. Submitted work must be licensed under the standard MPL/GPL/LGPL tri-license and a rough showcase needs to be produced by Tuesday 13th July for the theme to be considered. A few showcases have already been brought forth and are discussed. Take a look!"

Comments

This will sound bad

[obeythefist]

But why aren't a lot of these open source projects labelled a little more clearly? Thankfully the topic actually mentions that Sunbird is a Calendar. Although you ask a guy on the street what "Firefox" is and they'll think it's a TV show. You ask them what Internet Explorer is and they'll tell you it's a web browser.

Wouldn't it help if it was called the "Sunbird Calendar" and "Firefox browser"?

Re:This will sound bad

[byolinux]

Couldn't agree more. I think "Mozilla" is a well known name now... why not Mozilla Browser: The Firefox, Mozilla Calendar: The Sunbird, Mozilla Mail: The Thunderbird, etc?

Re:This will sound bad

[cL0h]

Yeah but why do you have to productise the descriptive word. If you want to indicate it's a browser say Mozilla browser. Even if you call it Mozilla Browser or Sunbird Calender people will still shorten the name in discussions for brrevity (or to sound knowledgable) !!

Re:This will sound bad

[Draknek]

I believe after the 1.0 release, Firebird will be known as Mozilla Browser.

Same for Thunderbird --> Mozilla Mail.

Re:This will sound bad

[synopsis5]

Your information is outdated. Firefox and Thunderbird won't go through another name change again. Three name changes for Firefox (mozilla/browser -> Phoenix -> Firebird -> Firefox) and one name change for Thunderbird (Minotaur -> Thunderbird) are clearly enough. You can't build up a successful brand, which is recognized by people if you keep on changing the name every few months.

Re:This will sound bad

[deminisma]

Yeah, because names like "Outlook Express", "Microsoft Excel" and "Safari" are sooo much more clear.

No need to bag on open source software in particular, because unhelpful naming exists throughout the software industry. And that's why we have tooltips.

Re:This will sound bad

[Quattro Vezina]

But why aren't a lot of these open source projects labelled a little more clearly?

No different than many proprietary apps, really.

Let's see...from Microsoft, we have Excel, Powerpoint, Access, Outlook, and Visual Studio, just to name a few. Windows, Frontpage, and Exchange might also fall into this category. I'm sure you can find tons more examples from other products too...both Windows software and Mac software.

Re:This will sound bad

[foniksonik]

When they release 1.0 versions they will all be prefixed by "Mozilla". Does that help? They are all in beta release even though they all work perfectly well, the suite hasn't been fully cross-integrated as a 'suite'.

So it will be:

Mozilla Browser
Mozilla Mail
Mozilla Calendar
Mozilla News
Mozilla Chat
etc.

Re:This will sound bad

[Anonymous Coward]

So it will be:

Mozilla Browser...

BZZZT, wrong. You're several years out of date, mate. If they're going to drop the Firefox name and call it "Mozilla Browser", why are they SPENDING MONEY building up the Firefox brand identity? Why have they registered Firefox as a trademark if it's only a working title?

Re:This will sound bad

[GregChant]

Outlook Express

outlook n
2. expectations for the future, especially for the way a particular situation will develop

Hm. That sounds exactly what Outlook is supposed to do. It's groupware (not just a MUA). Outlook Express, being the stripped down version of Outlook, provides a quicker/express way of accessing the same types of information Outlook would normally give.

Microsoft Excel

excel v
1. vti to do very well, or do better than all others or than a given standard

Microsoft Excel's first purpose, as a killer app of the late 80s, was to do what accountants did by hand (the standard) better and faster

Safari

safari n
1. a journey across a stretch of land [...]

This gives the same connotation Internet Explorer gives. Surfing the net is like a journey (at least to the marketing/pr people).

You were saying?

Re:This will sound bad

[FictionPimp]

Firefox: The act of lighting a small animal on fire and letting it go loose to discover new areas in the world you would of never traveled too before.

Thank sounds plain enough to me.

Re:This will sound bad

[Anonymous Coward]

It's a working title, idiot. The plan is still to use "Mozilla Browser". Check the site before you shoot off your mouth.

Re:This will sound bad

[synopsis5]

The site (I guess you mean the roadmap) is outdated and has been for outdated for nearly a year. An update has been promised a couple of times but never delivered.

But one thing is clear:
Neither Firefox nor Thunderbird nor Sunbird will be renamed when they reach 1.0

Re:This will sound bad

[Anonymous Coward]

Unfortunately it is totally fucking wrong.

Hey genious, do you realise how many mistakes there are in "the world you would of never traveled too"?

Re:This will sound bad

[FictionPimp]

I'm so soroy, IlL mkae sure to uese spelchek next time.

Lighten the fuck up.

Re:This will sound bad

[Brandybuck]

The could have named them "Mozilla Browser", "Mozilla Mail" and "Mozilla Calendar", and then NO ONE WOULD HAVE BEEN CONFUSED!

Re:This will sound bad

[Anonymous Coward]

You have a point, but I think you've overstated it. Name recognition and marketing appeal are just as important as the ability to instantly attach the name with the purpose. Word of mouth, advertising, and media coverage can help attach the name with the function, so you don't need to rely on obvious names.

There are dangers with obvious names. Names like "Browser" are clear, but suffer from being too generic. These names tend to be uncomfortable, not lending themselves to ostensibly grammatical sentences: "I really like Browser. Have you tried Browser, yet?" Names that separate the branding from the purpose, as in "Firefox Browser", tend to just be abbreviated to the more distinct part; they don't really win you anything in clarity (and may confuse users about where the browser comes from).

You might argue that the best names are distinct and obvious. PhotoShop, for example, is reasonably distinct, but completely transparent. But I think there are plenty of counterexamples. Google, by your metric, is a terrible name for a search application. But like Kleenex and Xerox, it's transcended mere branding and entered the vernacular. These are some of the strongest brand names we have.

Another example of obliquely named software is Windows. For those unfamiliar with the WIMP metaphor, the name means nothing. Obviously, understanding the metaphor requires using the software, and so you come to apply meaning to the name. And here we perhaps find the best formula, although there are still no guarantees. When the purpose becomes inextricably and uniquely linked with the name, you may just have a winner. This can only really happen when the name is distinct.

Re:This will sound bad

[burns210]

"You ask them what Internet Explorer is and they'll tell you it's a web browser."

Heh, no, they won't... The vast majority of people don't realize 'Internet Explorer' is a seperate application, or an application and all, and just see it as a thing that displays webpages... In the same sense, they don't realize Explorer is a full application and just see it as a window that displays the contents of a folder/drive.

Re:This will sound bad

[homer_ca]

You're damn right. Try explaining to a newbie the difference between ISP, web browser and web site when they complain their Internet doesn't work.

Techie: Try going to the web page 'www.blah.com'.
Newbie: How do I do that?
Technie: Run Internet Explorer and type 'www.blah.com' into the address line.
Newbie: But I don't use Internet Explorer, I use Earthlink.

and so on and so on....

Re:This will sound bad

[burns210]

the sad part is, that is some damn solid 'job security'... even if it drives the tech support kids absolutely crazy.

Re:This will sound bad

[Solar Limb]

Doesn't matter. At this point, MS offerings are downright ubiquitous, so if they were called MS Assholebomb and Mailshitter, people would still be using them because that's what they were shown. The honus is on other vendors (like Mozilla) to create cool and compelling branding so that prospective users might understand the value the vendor's product brings them. A high percentage of users are resistant to learning new technology.

Re:This will sound bad

[Solar Limb]

Hey geniUs, before you go puking on someone else's spelling you might want to make sure you spell geniUs correnctly.

Just a friendly tip.

Re:This will sound bad

[Anonymous Coward]

Thats nothing, try these Java framework names.

Hibornate
Struts
Acegisecurty
Spring
Mule
J unit

We have, a database framework, and dependency framework, and security framework, and model view controller framework, a CORBA like framework, and a testing framework - you figure out which is which - hint - there are no acronyms, ppl actually thought these names were cool.

Re:This will sound bad

[nine-times]

It may be off-topic and it's most likely to be offensive to some, but, personally, I think the whole 'Mozilla' project could benefit from a rebranding. I'm not saying ditch the 'Mozilla' brand, since it's well recognized and has a good connection with techies, but give the average business user some dinosaur icon labelled 'Mozilla' on their desktop, and they don't take it seriously enough.

Techies seem to dig the dinosaur and the penguin as a sort of an inside joke, but if you want to reach a larger audience, you have to drop the silly logos and fun code-names. Each application name, as the OP commented, should be easily identifiable in terms of what it does.

I'm not trying to troll or be offensive; I've just had a hard time convincing people that this "dinosaur program" or something called 'Mozilla Firefox' are "real web-browsers". Whenever I install Mozilla or Firefox on a non-techie's machine, I usually have to tell them that "It's Netscape- they just changed their name" before they'll actually run it. Firefox is too good a browser to be held back by a name.

In my opinion, that was the whole virtue of Netscape. You could take the Mozilla suite, change the graphics and give it a name that people know and trust, and know-nothings suddenly feel entirely comfortable trying it out.

Re:This will sound bad

[nine-times]

'"You ask them what Internet Explorer is and they'll tell you it's a web browser."

Heh, no, they won't... The vast majority of people don't realize 'Internet Explorer' is a seperate application...'

Funny... Most people I talk to think it's 'the internet'. I ask, 'Are you connected to the internet?' and they say, 'Yes! I'm looking at the internet right now, but it isn't showing me any pictures!'

Re:This will sound bad

[Psymunn]

I know why they did it but it would have been nice if Firefox was stil Firebird... you know... for consistancy
Or they could just change everything else to Thunderfox and Sunfox...
Yeah... I think Sunbird deserved it's own animal group prehaps. Whatever, Mozilla is the one comapny that seems to be able to pull of inconsistant naming and improve their brand identity becausee of it (at least among geeks)

Re:This will sound bad

[eeg3]

Why wouldn't someone end up suing over "Thunderbird," thus causing them to change that? For example, Ford Motor's with their line of Thunderbird cars, or maybe someone else? Seems like Thunderbird is just as bad as Firebird.

Re:This will sound bad

[kelnos]

I've just had a hard time convincing people that this "dinosaur program" or something called 'Mozilla Firefox' are "real web-browsers".

really? i've never had any problems telling people that "dreamweaver" is a "real web developing application". i'm sure with a few minutes we could come up with a bunch more successful, real-world products with "silly" names.

Re:This will sound bad

[Anonymous Coward]

I will suggest it to them.

Thank you; this will probably make me a rich man.

I love the US legal system.

Re:This will sound bad

[gujo-odori]

Uhhh, because one is a car and one is an email client.

If, on the other hand, Ford had a computer software called Thunderbird, whether or not it was an email client, then they could claim trademark infringement.

Don't forget that Firebird is also a car (although not a current model), and you don't see GM suing over that name as used in software. If Ford tried to build a car called Firebird, GM lawyers would be on the like flies on dogshit, but software is too far removed of a product/industry for them to have a claim.

OT: /. needs an -article- evaluation tool...

[ivi]

Why is this article worth publishing?

There are so few /. articles per day,
as things are... to allocate one of
the already slim resources to -this-
topic (which I feel would be better
left on the Mozilla project web site)
is just not good enough.

We need to be able to vote/moderate the
QUALITY of an article's topic, just as
we can do with individual posts, today.

Perhaps the person who PICKS an article
should receive less access to the input
hopper (from which posted articles are
selected for publication on /.)

Even if you like the article on Mozilla's
default theme, you might like to see /.
readers have SOME mechanism to rate selec-
ted articles.

What's think? ;-/

Sunbird

[gonaddespammed.com]

It would be nice if the themes end up listed here: http://update.mozilla.org/ I think that sunbird needs more "media" attention, I know a lot of people that use m$ orifice just because it has a half decent calender. Firefox is awesome Thunderbird is awesome Sunbird, I'm waiting patiently ;)

Re:Sunbird

[bahamat]

Sunbird would get more attention if

1. the deveopers gave it more attention
2. it didn't suck

The last time I tried sunbird as a standalone app it couldn't even perform basic tasks like adding an event. The last time I installed it as part of Firefox or Thunderbird it wrecked the app so bad I had to delete it, my prefs, and reinstall.

Just for the sake of giving it another shot I just installed Sunbird into Thunderbird. It looks nice, but nothing happens when I try to create a calendar.

For Mac OS X there's iCal, for windows there's eventSherpa Lite. Unfortunately, there is still no program utilizing this open standard on Linux.

Re:Sunbird

[synopsis5]

>Sunbird would get more attention if
>
>1. the deveopers gave it more attention

You can't force people to develop a program. Currently Sunbird/Calendar are lacking active developers, but we're gaining momentum at the moment. We're up to five part-time developers from just two a few months ago.

One part of this quest for a new theme is to gain more user and (hopefully) developer attention.

>2. it didn't suck

Well, if it sucks then help to make it no suck. Find and report bugs, help triage bugs or supply a patch or two if you can. You can really make a difference here compared to other much larger projects.

>The last time I tried sunbird as a standalone app
>it couldn't even perform basic tasks like adding
>an event. The last time I installed it as part of
>Firefox or Thunderbird it wrecked the app so bad
>I had to delete it, my prefs, and reinstall.

I didn't see any bugreports from you. You also seem to confuse Calendar and Sunbird. Calendar is the extension which you can install into Thunderbird or Firefox. Sunbird is the standalone program which can't be added to Thunderbird or Firefox.

Excellent

[Mark_MF-WN]

This looks like a great project! Firefox and Thunderbird are just about the best browser and e-mail clients extant, respectively. With Sunbird, I'll finally be able to dispense with Evolution completely!

Why is it that this project receives so little attention? It seems like a no-brainer -- a cross-platform calendaring app that integrates with the best web browser and e-mail client in the world! Who could fail to get excited about that?

Re:Excellent

[RAMMS EIN]

``a cross-platform calendaring app that integrates with the best web browser and e-mail client in the world! Who could fail to get excited about that?''

People who already have a web browser, email client, and calender app that work for them?

Re:Excellent

[Anonymous Coward]

But this lot is free, free as fuck.

Re:Excellent

[Anonymous Coward]

With Sunbird, I'll finally be able to dispense with Evolution completely!

My thoughts exactly. Not that Evo's such a bad thing, but unfortunately their UI design leaves more than a little to be desired. It's complicated and nonstandard. Cluttered without being full of features. I'm hoping 2.0 is an improvement, but you'll have to release a serious mean emailing machine to yank me away from Thunderbird.

Man, the mozilla team just "gets it". It's no coincidence that every reviewer that steps within 10 feet of them collapses and starts sobbing "thank you".

A Hidden Treasure?

[erinacht]

This is news to me! I use my palm desktop software for contact management and I'm quite happy with it/reluctant to change, but I like the fact that my happy pair of Firebird and Thunderbird could be complimented by Sunbird (probably to be changed to Fitbird or such...)
I'll download it tonight and give it a whirl, I seem to remember a palm sync thing with old netscape so I'm presuming this is still possible...
It does look a bit ugly right enough, a new theme based on firefox/thunderbird would be welcome.

Re:A Hidden Treasure?

[Anonymous Coward]

I love the Palm Desktop for calendaring, contacts and tasks on Windows. The UI and shortcuts are great, and printing is pretty smart looking.

But the Mac version sucks a**. It's an expert-level task to add notes about a contact, and just in general, the Mac Palm Desktop opens more windows than GIMP and Photoshop combined.

Re:A Hidden Treasure?

[erinacht]

I don't know about the usability aspects of the palm desktop for the mac, but it certainly looks very pretty - I'm very envious of the system wide address book that the mac sports.

Charamel ?

[theefer]

In my opinion, the greatest, cutest Firefox/Thunderbird theme is Charamel. It'd be great if they would make a Sunbird theme as well.

Re:Charamel ?

[DeadSea]

The buttons are too big in Charamel. I prefer pinball.

Re:Charamel ?

[Enrico Pulatzo]

It's nice, but I don't like it when apps use different background colors than my system.

Re:Charamel ?

[Feztaa]

Wow, that's pretty slick... I prefer iCandy Junior, though, because it fits in a little better with the rest of my system.

Yay another 50MB GRE to install

[Anonymous Coward]

That's just what I need, another 50MB of disk space and another 50MB of ram taken up by a THIRD GRE running at the same time as the FireFox and Thunderbird.

Re:Yay another 50MB GRE to install

[Solar Limb]

Then kindly explain your dilemma to the guy holding the gun to your head forcing you to download it. He'll probably understand.

All well and good...

[skinfitz]

But will it talk to Exchange?

Re:All well and good...

[bitty]

I was thinking the same thing. With the Evolution Connector being open sourced, I would like to think that a connector for Sunbird won't be far behind. That would be nothing but a good thing.

Re:All well and good...

[skinfitz]

Well put it this way - if it connects to Exchange (reliably) then a lot of people can start seriously rolling out Linux to the desktop.

Re:All well and good...

[LWATCDR]

Or at least as a start dropping outlook.

Re:All well and good...

[Anonymous Coward]

Read about it in the Sunbid roadmap !

iCal

[KoopaTroopa]

Is there any hope for SunBird to either import iCal calendars or to subscribe to them?

Re:iCal

[synopsis5]

iCal is the native calendar format that Sunbird uses. See this faq entry. Try it out. You can easily import iCal calendars and subscribe to them. Some calendars to which you can subscribe to are available on this page.

For the more technical guys:
Sunbird uses libical as its calendar engine. This library is available under the MPL or the LGPL.

Not that bad...

[mikelang]

The "marketing name" should be easy to remember and have unique association with the project.
"Sunbird" is just one rare word.
Everybody talks about "Sunbird calendar app" anyway, so why to increase the length of name?

ROTFL

[TuringTest]

Sorry I hadn't any mod points today! X'-D