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Judge Halts Utah's Spyware Law
TheFarmerInTheDell writes "According to CNet News, a judge in Utah has granted an injunction to WhenU.com to temporarily halt the state's new anti-spyware law from going into effect. WhenU filed suit in April asking for an injunction, and this judge has decided that their claim of abridging their First Amendment Rights has enough merit to issue the injunction. What about our rights not to have to deal with this scumware?" (This previous post mentions Ben Edelman's research on WhenU and other spyware makers' activities.)
So when does their 'right to free speech' end and my right to be left alone on my personal computer, in my private residence, begin?
A love beyond compare...
*sigh*
I grew up there. It is a really nice place if you like the outdoors-- skiing in the mountains, hiking in the deserts, river rafting... But damn if the judges aren't screwy when it comes to protecting all sorts of hair-brained business schemes.
Ya know all those herbal supplemental crap adverts in your spam? Half of those companies are based in Utah. Ya know all the data-mining goofiness going on? Those ding-dongs are ex-Novell clowns looking to cash in.
Basically, if anyone can go before a judge and say that "Law X interferes with my right to potentially screw suckers out of their idiot cash", then that judge will slam that law into the ground. It's like they take the nasty edge of libertarianism in commerce but forget the rights of the individual privacy that go along with it.
davejenkins.com |
By putting spyware on the computer, they are in effect breaking and entering into your property. This is NOT a free speech issue, any more than someone spray painting on the side of your house is free speech. It is tresspassing.
Rhymes that keep their secrets will unfold behind the clouds.There upon the rainbow is the answer to a neverending story
In response to:
I am not sure we have any such right really. Privacy is not a consitutional right. Laws have been passed to protect our privacy in certain situations and that is good. But there is nothing that makes our privacy an irrevocable right that would extend beyond what has been legislated. Utah did the right thing by passing this law since it strengthens individual privacy. The courts however should hear the case if free speech is at stake, which I doubt it is since most spyware doesn't talk to you or express itself cause that would reveal that it was there. So I think the legality issues need to play out, but I think we should all watch our tone since ignorance is a dangerous thing...
Remember, if you try to find out what WhenU's spyware is doing on your computer, WhenU can sue you for breaching their copyright/patent/encryption/whateverthehelltheyfel like on the basis that the transmissions were encrypted, or that their program is protected!
OK huge exaggeration, but remember that WhenU is essentially trying to argue that you have less rights than they do over your own computer. This is the tenent of DCMA supporters. Users cannot be trusted with what they do on their computers, ergo we must administer their PCs for them. WhenU simply extends this to actions you take browsing the web.
Acts like the DCMA have taken away a huge number of rights from computer users, so don't be too surprised if WhenU win the right to, basically, remotely administer your PC by force. As long as they get government backing and/or say that spyware fights terrorism, they might very well succeed.
May the Maths Be with you!
What about our rights not to have to deal with this scumware?
What about our rights not to have to hear hate speech!
What about our rights not to have to see minorities in the same store as us!
Your right to be "left alone" just doesn't exist. Just stop downloading software. It's not hard.
int func(int a);
func((b += 3, b));
I service PCs for a living and this spyware shit is really paying the bills. It's great that I get more work but you feel dirty like you are having to work on a sewer line.
I'm glad I have the work but also dislike having the need to do the work. I think alot of people of turning away from the internet because of all this spyware crap.
Slashdot, home of supporters of free software, free music, and free speech.Except for Moderators that disagree with you.
But seriously, why can't they be sued for cybercrime? If installing software without permission is perfectly legal, I have some keylogging software I would like to put on my banks PC's. I wouldn't argue privacy, I would argue the fact that they are putting software on your computer without your knowledge, that may cause problems in your system critical applications such as porn.
Why do companies have rights the same as people have rights? It seems odd to me that companies aren't punished like people, but they want to be treated like people. I personally would love to see a corporate death sentence. If your products kill people and someone in the company knew it, the company should be instantly disolved.
Personally, I think the US needs a corporate bill of rights, and those rights need to be seriously limited compared to my rights. Any first amendment rights should end where personal irritation begins.
IMHO, I believe the U.S. Government needs to get involved with shutting down these spy- and mal-ware companies due to National Security. Having worked as a contractor in military facilities, every Windows-based system attached to the internet I've worked on in those facilities, has been loaded with spy-ware. And I'm not talking about military-sanctioned keystroke loggers and system management tools.
I've never been comfortable working with unclassified (but potentially sensitive) data on a system that I know has spy-ware on it. It wouldn't be difficult for someone to collect sensitive data from those machines with spy- or mal-ware. A little side note here: it's possible to use information from unclassified documents to determine classified information.
Regardless of whether the system is military, government, or your own personal PC, I see spy- and mal-ware as a form of trespassing. Someone sneaking software onto your PC is no different than someone breaking into your house and stealing your drivers license, social security card, and other personal information. What these companies do has nothing to do with free speech.
If "disco" means "I learn" in Latin, does "discothèque" mean "I learn technology"?
I'm probably going to be modded WAY down for this
I cannot 100% disagree with their position. If someone is foolish enough to click through the agreement and installs spyware, as repulsive as it is, who do they really have to blame except themselves? As long as they don't act like a virus and stealth install along with another program as some programs have been known to do, I don't see how you can complain. Basically, as long as they agree, they agreed. Are you going to sue MS for typing "format c:" and then losing your system?
I should mention that Hotbar is fresh in my memory from having to step my dad remotely through the painful removal process (no network access thanks to hotbar, sort of ironic;). However, the fact that is is painful, or even if it could not be removed at all, is not cause for legislation. Otherwise, I'd like MS to be the first victim. Ever try to uninstall an IE hotfix that causes problems? How about that "Outlook security fix"? Can't see your JPGs anymore? Tough. So, while I agree that Spyware sucks rocks, I don't think Utah's legislation is very well thought out or even correct.
I think a better law would actually address personal privacy. The more I think about it, the more I think I like the EU's privacy laws, and perhaps the US should step up to that level of privacy protection. (Be hell on advertisers, but who really gives a sh!t about them anyways?)
The cesspool just got a check and balance.
Has anyone done any reverse engineering of any of this spyware stuff? I mean, I would love to run a program that spoke gator.com's protocols and connected to their servers, reported endless amounts of bogus data to pollute and help render worthless all of their covertly gathered data that they value so much. Seems that this could be the only way to fight back.
If I walk up to some woman on the street, stand beside her and start digging quietly through her purse, making notes of what stores she's shopped at, her telephone number, her address...
Then I go visit her house, quietly walk in and make more notes about her life, use her phone to call it in to my associates...
I'd be arrested for so many violations of the law it wouldn't be funny. So why the hell is this tolerated in the virtual world?
A bit of background information. I'm a computer tech that deals with the general public. Despite keeping my job alive, I really do hate spyware. This software causes a fair-sized chunk of my customers' problems, and it gets repetitive to keep having to uninstall it. That being said, I think we have to look at the bigger picture.
Spyware isn't some kind of magic software that spontaneously appears. Admittedly, it can be a bit deceptive, but still prompts you for an installer. The problem is that people install software blindly without considering the outcome of their actions. If a perfect stranger, without identifying himself as an employee from a company you knew about, showed up at your house asking to poke around on your computer for a while, what would you do? You would slam the door on his face, and make a mental note: "No, I do not trust content from the Gator company"
Granted, no spyware company is going to pay attention to such things, but it might be useful if you participate in a class-action claim against such a company for installing damaging software on your system without your permission.
But I am also a very strong proponent of my right not to provide the venue for speech I don't want. It should be that extremely simple. My computer is my property and, as others have pointed out, another party placing something there without my permission is trespassing.
"Do the Right Thing. It will gratify some people and astound the rest." - Mark Twain
"Do the Right Thing. It will gratify some people and astound the rest." - Mark Twain
How about third amendment? Right against unreasonable search and seizure...normally applicable to physical search by the police...but what about "seizure" of personal information without permission...that's theft. Utah judges are bullshit. I know the 3rd amendment is intended for the government, but maybe it ought to be considered extensible in this circumstance? Actually, I'm surprised no-one has brought up harassment either (that I've heard of thus far).
-- Tim
Asst. Mger - Software Team, CSU College of Business
Hey, I never clicked on any license agreement. None of the warez that I downloaded even had one. The other day, this crack I ran had a spyware attached to it. I never clicked "agree" to anything. That's totally unfair!
TODO: come up with a clever sig
WhenU click upon a link
Makes no difference what you think
WhenU click upon our link
Your base are belong to us.
You were 80% angel, 10% demon. The rest was hard to explain. - Over The Rhine
"Math in a song is good."-Linford
As I'm sure others have said in the past, ultimately the best way to eradicate spyware is to punish the companies that benefit from it in the marketplace. If we as consumers simply refuse to patronize companies that use such distasteful marketing methods, spyware would just shrivel up. Those of us who are knowledgable should spread the word and make those paying the spyware makers regret it.
Spyware, like spam, fluorishes because there is money to be made. There's no room in our capitalist system for morals, privacy, or common courtesy. But if lacking these starts to hurt in the pocketbook, then we'll see some progress.
To the making of books there is no end, so let's get started
Have some magnetic signs made up advertizing the local adult bookstore. Next time the judge stops at a stopsign, run up and slap the sign on the side. For bonus points, figure out somewhere that he won't notice it for a while; perhaps on the rear passenger door, he might not see it.
To simulate the trouble it can be to remove the crap from your system, slather some superglue on the backside before doing this, so that it'll be expensive and time consuming to remove and will cause damage that will also be expensive to fix.
I see NO difference between this and some of the more obnoxious spyware lately; they're both hijacking my property without my knowledge or consent in order to promote their own business interests.
I'm spending more and more time cleaning spyware at work. It invades computers then I have to get rid of it. I have a laptop someone just brought in that's filty with the stuff. I spent several hours at a friends house last night cleaning her PC. It's time to start sending bills to Spyware companies for these cleaning services. In fact, as I sit here, I believe that's what I'm going to do. I'll send invoices to these firms, then take them to small claims court when they don't pay. Who's with me?
That's an excellent idea! Data pollution of gator and other spyware would be excellent; they would either have to change their format, obsoleteing thousands of infested PCs, or just live with bogus data.