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Airlines Gave More Data Than Previously Disclosed
scottfk writes "Wired news has an article exposing the fact that still more customer data recorded by airlines were turned over to the TSA for their CAPPS II testing. From the article, 'Delta, Continental, America West, JetBlue and Frontier Airlines secretly turned over sensitive passenger data to Transportation Security Administration contractors in the spring and summer of 2002, according to the sworn statement of acting TSA chief David Stone. In addion, two of the four largest airline reservation centers, Galileo International and Sabre, also gave sensitive passenger information, including home phone numbers, credit card numbers and health data, without disclosing the transfers to travelers or asking their permission.'"
Is this even legal to distribute credit card numbers like that?
I hear that there's this websize h@x0rz.hk that'll happily buy such lists of information. Does this precident mean it's Ok to share with them?
Drill baby drill - on Mars
The deal is the same with ET and life in space, the majority of society is not ready to know this. Joe Smoe in Suburb A, Good Ole Boy, USA doesn't want to know that I can find out whatever I want on him and the government can probably tell where he is within 5 feet at any given time. That is if they want to waste the resources.
This is why I am amazed that the Olympic Bomber Dude (sorry, pressed for time and can't remember his name nor wish to google) spent years in the mountains of my home state without anyone finding him. HE would still be there too, if he hadn't come back into town....
I kinda got off topic for a moment, but to me, this is not news. If you think other companies don't do the same thing you are crazy. If the government came to me and said do this this and this or I am going to shut you down, and not pass this bill that will keep you in business, as well as block this foreign trade, then you would do it too. American Way baby.....
http://jayceecorder.blogspot.com
I understand the worry and concern about mis-use of this data, BUT as I recall, and you might also, in the short months directly following the 4 attempted attacks using airliners the airlines and associates were running scared and were providing the FBI and later HSA any and all information they had, requested or not.
So any surprise or concern over this data seems misplaced. Patterns were being examined and evidence compiled. Yes, extreme measures were taken and should be acknowledged and where appropriate apologized for, but these events should surprise noone and these revelations simply confirm what we already know.
Some people(and corporations) do foolish things when faced with a catastrophe.
Food not Bombs is a nice platitude but it breaks down when you notice that the Bombees are usually well fed
Travelocity was "Born of leading travel innovator Sabre (the world's largest travel agent reservation system)." (In fact, recently spun off from?)
So? Forget the fact that all of this information is available on the Internet, the FBI can pull this information very quickly anyway. I support this because it just eliminates the wasted time for the FBI to do so. Passenger tracking by governments is going to be a way of life permanently thanks to a few morons. Just prey it doesn't extend fully into automobile driving, trains, or buses. The fundamental issue here is citizens willingness to have their personal information and whereabouts freely available by the government they are currently involved with, be that their home country or the country they reside in. But I think that is just a phantom of the real issue which is people's fears that by governments simply having that information it can be stolen or sold to somebody to use it against the individual. This is a valid concern in most countries right now. As governments advance and globalize, this kind of information sharing should become more secure and less invasive. Meaning full detailed information will not need to be kept on anyone because if you are in a modern country the needed information will be generated when you need it and not sitting on a server to be misused. I personally don't mind my government (US) tracing my whereabouts and my purchases because I don't feel they can use that information against me. Mainly because I do nothing that they would conceive as harmful to them. Some people want to keep everything private because they fear misuse, but I truly believe most people that want to keep everything out of government hands is because they have something to hide. Perhaps I am wrong in calling them the majority, but I don't understand when someone is worried about your government knowing where you are or how to find you.
I stole this sig.
The airlines gave that much no doubt because they were asked to. And the reason why they were asked to is because it takes a lot of data points on an individual to fully cross-link and cross-reference all the scattered databases that are used to define who someone is and what they are doing recently.
Yeah it is excessive. I don't like it at all. It is spooky. But it happens all the time though generally on a smaller scale.
This is just one time when it was on a huge scale, and so we found out.
Before very long there will be a lot of strangers in the world (I mean all over the world, including offshore outsourced data mining facilities) that know more about the Total You than anyone you actually know personally, outside yourself. That's one of the reasons why privacy laws are such a total flipping joke in the absence of data secrecy.
It's probably better just to stay out of the databases if you don't want your whole life being dredged up in the next terrorist-inspired data dragnet.
=^..^= all your rodent are belong to us
I can promise you that 100% don't know.
Most interesting identity theft case I hear from (I handled taking care of some of the fraudulent charges) was a guy who's employer had a key-logger that captured his keys as he bought stuff online. The key-log was not kept securely and eventually it ended up in the hands of a credit-card-theft-ring.
Forget the credit cards -- where did they get the "health data" from? That seems far more invasive to me...
Compounding the problem is the vagueness of policies and incomplete training of personnel. My laptop gave a false positive for TNT a while back, so I had to submit to a secondary search at the security checkpoint. Besides proving that the laptop did indeed boot up, the police officer double-clicked on my trashcan to see what files were there, and checked the dropdown on my browser to see what recent links I had been to.
It didn't look like the officer was following any kind of script, was just nosy. But I was quite steamed about it at the time. (Good thing I had recently cleared both before packing the laptop!)
We need personal information metadata! Parties obviously need to exchange information in order to do business but that exchange should have clear rules and any data exchanged should be tagged. The system would, for the most part, be self governing. Would you really want to do business with someone or somecorp that is handing you data tagged "not for redistribution"?
Most data transfers are unnecessary however and request for such data should raise a flag. Do you really need to give out your phone number in order to purchase some groceries? My favorite is asking for the cashier's phone number in return. That's usually the end of that even on return visits if the same cashier is working there.
Politicus
This very statement is why many people were opposed to the Bill of Rights. They thought it would limit people's rights. One subtle but important fact of the Bill of Rights is that it does not grant rights to anyone, it only lists them. You have the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness inherently. You were born with it. This right wasn't granted to you by a piece of paper. The Bill of Rights simply declares that which is already so.
It is entirely possible that they left one or two things out.
irb(main):001:0>
Galileo International and Sabre, also gave sensitive passenger information, including home phone numbers, credit card numbers and health data, without disclosing the transfers to travelers or asking their permission.
According to HIPAA, this is a big, costly, no-no.
IANAL. Yeah yeah.
Mod Karma -1: I sed bad wurds. If I cep my mouf shut, I wud be at riyses.
Trying to keep dangerous weapons off of planes is a futile effort.
Yes you confiscate a gun, whoppie. I can take my steel bodied ink pen and a paper bag full of gunpowder. No one is screening for matches. As long as we allow the people on board we are allowing weapons. The mind is the only real weapon anyway. I find the security in airports a joke. I flew threw Portland, recently, and a terminal was being remodelled, cordless drills and tools everywhere, with no one watching them at all(I assume it was the lunch break for the crew). Anyone could pick up and take whatever they want onto the plane. In Cincinati you can buy the nail
clippers that are prohibited in the terminal. Take liquids for instance, we don't check them to see if they are volatile. Anyone could walk on board with a 20oz Sprite bottle filled with nitro and no one would question it.
I will say it again airport security is a joke. period.
The only way that I see to secure our airlines, is to issue every adult border a knife/handgun/weapon. Then we can be sure that everyone is armed. Perhaps a simple check, "Are you prepared to defend the plane if terrorists attack?" if not you can drive.
Just my 2 cents.
#### ## Laroue ####
If you believe that the rest of the world hating the US is a myth, than I urge you to test your theory and travel to said forgein land and announce to the entire community there you are an American. If the US is not the most hated country, then why is it that Americans visiting Greece for teh Olympics have been urged not to wave American flags at the games? No other country has been prohibited from this. As for #'s 1 & 2 of your statement of course countries will continue to trade with the US. Have you worked for someone you didn't like? Yet you still took thier money right?
I am Bennett Haselton! I am Bennett Haselton!
Galilleo (1G)
Amadeus (1A)
Worldspan (1W)
Axxess (1X?)
Sabre (1S)
and 3 other I can't remmember because they are small but i can get a list...
Bottom line "passenger are not told" is wrong. Passenger are told thru the "contract" they are accepting by buying a ticket. It is on the back of the ticket or given in an additional sheet with the ticket. Naturally nobody read it. But it is there. In germany it is in the agb (allgemeine geschäft bedingung, general condition of contract).
Now you might discuss that it might not be correct to NOT WARN EXPLICITLY the passenger, but hey, this happens also in many other field (auto leasing and small prints... Always read the smallest print...).
Bottom line is, if you give any data even in EU where we are supposed to get data protection, then it will be forwardded to the US sooner or later thru CAPS/CAPS 2 programs. As an EU inhabitant I think the EU dropped their pants on that one, but this is probably off topic.
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