Field Day 2004

Re:YAAA by nwf · 2004-06-25 15:23 · Score: 1

Broadband over Power Lines, a mis-guided atempt at high speed internet over unshielded electrical wires.

--
I don't know, but it works for me.

Going the way of the dinosaurs by L0C0loco · 2004-06-25 15:24 · Score: 5, Insightful

I'm an extra class ham, but I believe amateur radio is a dying art/hobby. The thanks go mostly to the internet and cell phones. While I'm a bit sad to see very few of the younger folk comming into the hobby, I'm not surprised.

--
-- Instant Karma's gonna get you! [320848 = 2*2*2*2*11*1823]

Re:Going the way of the dinosaurs by bugmenot · 2004-06-25 15:34 · Score: 2, Insightful

HAM operators are like cockroaches.
If the event of a thermonuclear war, they may provide us with our only mean of communication.

--
This account has been seized by the GNAA. That is all.
Re:Going the way of the dinosaurs by DAldredge · 2004-06-25 15:39 · Score: 1

No, they will be too busy trying to pump 1000 Watts into the nearest power lines because they will be blaming BPL for the war ;->
Re:Going the way of the dinosaurs by j1m+5n0w · 2004-06-25 15:45 · Score: 4, Interesting

Coincidentally, I'm actually planning to take my technician's license test this weekend.
As an outsider, it seems to me that there's a connection between the lack of popularity of ham radio and the severe restrictions placed on what can be done with it.
For instance: sure, I can check my email over ham radio, but I'm not allowed to use encryption. So, to check my email I have to either a)broadcast my IMAP password to everyone within hundreds of miles, or b)disable passwords altogether and leave my mail account wide open.
Neither of these options seem very appealling, In the networking community, cryptography is seen as a great thing.
What do most ham operators think of these kinds of restrictions (no crypto, no music, no commercial traffic)? Do you like having the openness that a no-crypto policy implies, or do you prefer to keep the airwaves uncluttered by non-ham radio related personal/commercial traffic, or do you all grumble at the FCCs outdated restrictions?
-jim
Re:Going the way of the dinosaurs by josecanuc · 2004-06-25 15:49 · Score: 5, Informative

I think it's been shown in an official comment or ruling by the FCC that encryption is not wholly illegal on ham radio. The wording of the rules states that amateurs aren't supposed to obscure the meaning of their communications.

The specific ruling that I am too lazy to look up ;-) states that it's okay to use an encoding for authorization. So you could check your IMAP email over ham packet if you used the CRAM-MD5 method of authentication. You wouldn't currently be allowed to use SSL for the whole session, but CRAM-MD5 allows you to authenticate with a shared secret without exposing the secret over the air.
Re:Going the way of the dinosaurs by SYFer · 2004-06-25 15:55 · Score: 4, Interesting

Cheer up. I believe at least some of the spirit of HAM radio lives in the heart of every Linksys WiFi router hacker who is trying to tweak maximum performance out of a wireless mesh network or clambering around on the roof to aim a yaggi antenna at an AP across town.

Voices talking or packets flying, it's still magical to pull stuff out of the thin air and today's WiFi geek gazing at his Kismet data is like yesterday's HAM operator putting push-pins in a map on the wall.

--
"...all the labours of the ages, all the devotion, all the inspiration, all the noonday brightness..." yada yada
Re:Going the way of the dinosaurs by nwf · 2004-06-25 16:00 · Score: 2, Informative

Coincidentally, I'm actually planning to take my technician's license test this weekend.

Good luck!

Some of the restrictions have annoyed me as well, but much of this is only due to current FCC policies. These can be changed, and there are ways of changing the policies. In fact, some HAMs have proposed elimination of the morse code test (CW) since it is now no longer required by international law. FCC is taking comments on the proposals now. I'm just too lazy to learn it. :-)

However, if they allowed encryption, it would close the hobby and people would use it for commercial purposes. Bandwidth is very scarce. (Well, that's a topic for another post!)

--
I don't know, but it works for me.
Re:Going the way of the dinosaurs by j1m+5n0w · 2004-06-25 16:20 · Score: 2, Interesting

However, if they allowed encryption, it would close the hobby and people would use it for commercial purposes. Bandwidth is very scarce. (Well, that's a topic for another post!)

Maybe an acceptable compromise would be to allow encryption and/or commercial use, but only for digital communication methods that don't use much bandwidth (such as PSK31). That way, the people who want encrypted email or ssh from the boonies, and want it bad enough that they'll get a license and live with low speeds, can have it without clogging the spectrum.
-jim
Re:Going the way of the dinosaurs by Rorschach1 · 2004-06-25 16:22 · Score: 4, Informative

Sec. 97.113, paragrah (4):
(4) Music using a phone emission except as specifically provided elsewhere in this section; communications intended to facilitate a
criminal act; messages in codes or ciphers intended to obscure the meaning thereof, except as otherwise provided herein; obscene or indecent words or language; or false or deceptive messages, signals or identification

One-time passwords and challenge/response authentication are indeed used in some ham applications. Many hams have a knee-jerk reaction to any mention of cryptography, though, so be prepared to quote chapter and verse. The key phrase there is 'intended to obscure the meaning'. You're not obscuring any information, just proving who you are.
Re:Going the way of the dinosaurs by scoove · 2004-06-25 16:29 · Score: 5, Insightful

I believe amateur radio is a dying art/hobby.

This gets kicked around a lot on ham forums. Mostly, the most accurate answer is that ham radio is changing. The era of becoming a ham because you want to talk to people around the world has changed. At the same time, there are many young hams who want to learn not because of the hobby aspect as much as the challenge of the radiofrequency theory, science and technical challenge. Quite honestly, there are enough "passengers" in the world and not enough "drivers" (802.11/wifi of today and CB radio of yesteryear is a perfect example of this).

Compare it to the era of the "home computer programmer" of the late 70s and early 80s. Where are they today? People typing in BASIC codes in the latest Byte magazine. A hobby, yes, but not much more. Today's open source developer is a different breed, just as today's new ham operator is. It's a serious professional interest. I know weather spotter hams who have self-educated to levels beyond the local TV weatherman, for instance. While the number of "hobby hams" has declined, today's new hams take the practice to a new level and are pioneering new applications. At some point, we'll discover a hobby application that will probably attract the masses again, but mass interest validate the practice? As long as amateurs are professionally operating disaster control networks, providing trained weather spotting services, and quietly operating other important services, the lack of countless hobbyist users is visible but not critical.

Slashdot readers should know this dynamic by now. The model rocketeer of the 1960s is no longer sufficient; private commercial rocketry is today's "hobby." Typing in 300 lines of BASIC does not make one a developer; learning and contributing to the F/OSS world does. In light of cell networks, packet switching and other technologies, should amateur radio be exempt from this dynamic?

The thanks go mostly to the internet and cell phones. As long as you are content with riding on someone elses network. Care to know what really is going on within the RF? An amateur license will teach you a great foundation necessary for learning all those things you've taken for granted (while one of us is running things).

*scoove*
Re:Going the way of the dinosaurs by Rorschach1 · 2004-06-25 16:31 · Score: 1

And some of us are still squeezing everything we can out of a 1200-baud AFSK mesh network. Yeah, it's 1970s technology, but it's easily hackable and cheap.
I think European hams have taken the lead in bringing the open source movement to the hobby. It's strange that it's taken so long in the states, since the communities seem to have so much in common. I've got my own open source project going, and I'm happy to see that my efforts have apparently led to at least a couple of other projects being open sourced. Hopefully the trend will continue.
Re:Going the way of the dinosaurs by w9wi · 2004-06-25 16:35 · Score: 2, Informative

(good luck!)

As the other post says, encryption is acceptable for authentication, but not for the message contents. Whether that addresses your concern is a good question(grin)...

The prohibitions on music and commercial traffic date back to the 1920s, and commercial stations' fear of competitions. Many of the earliest broadcast stations were hams transmitting music - once it became obvious broadcasting would be popular there was a fear that the ham bands would be filled with low-power broadcasters.

Commercial point-to-point radio using Morse Code existed at the time. In many foreign countries the commercial stations were operated by the government. (remember what they say about governments & competition(grin)!)

I think most hams haven't even thought about what the regulations do to the usability of ham radio for data communications. Removing the limits on commercial traffic altogether runs the risk of overwhelming experimental traffic with businesses looking for a cheap comms system. (I'd bet the common carriers wouldn't stand for it) You could safely come partway though.
Re:Going the way of the dinosaurs by josecanuc · 2004-06-25 16:36 · Score: 1

Thanks for doing the research. BTW: Your OpenTracker is running just great for me ;-)
Re:Going the way of the dinosaurs by Rorschach1 · 2004-06-25 17:00 · Score: 1

True, I think those that do choose to get involved in the hobby are more technically inclined. But the big problem with losing numbers is the lack of commercial hardware. Cheap, high-quality hardware will only be available as long as there are enough people to buy it. In fields like packet radio, this is already a problem. Look at the offerings from companies like Kantronics - they've offered very little in the way of innovation in recent years, they're still selling the same old entry-level 1200 baud TNCs for $180, and when they release new firmware you've got to shell out $60 for a chip.

Open source can change some of those things, but as far as hardware goes you still need someone willing to put up considerable amounts of money for manufacturing.
Re:Going the way of the dinosaurs by dogfart · 2004-06-25 17:01 · Score: 1

You could set something up with a one-time password system like S/Key. The FCC's concern is that ham frequencies would be used for unauthorized purposes if crypto were in regular use to obscure the meaning of transmissions. I think (not totally sure) that using encryption to provide secure authentication alone is OK.
They don't want commercial interests taking over a hobbyist-based system and obscuring their intent by encrypting all transmissions.

--
"dope will get you through times of no money better than money will get you through times of no dope"
Re:Going the way of the dinosaurs by connorbd · 2004-06-25 17:02 · Score: 1

Interestingly you can cover quite a bit of ground on the AM broadcast bands without needing a broadcast license -- there's a Part 15 station running in Brighton, MA called Allston-Brighton Free Radio (www.abfreeradio.org, I believe) that covers not only Brighton (the westernmost fragment of Boston) but parts of the neighboring towns of Brookline, Cambridge and Newton.

You can't do that on FM though (there's about a quarter mile limit), and part 15 broadcasts on AM have some pretty severe antenna restrictions.
Re:Going the way of the dinosaurs by connorbd · 2004-06-25 17:05 · Score: 1

There's no denying one thing: the most interesting stuff being done with amateur RF engineering these days is beind done with systems related to but far more advanced than AX.25 packet radio. You don't need a license to work 802.11.

Actually, learning about packet radio was one of the reasons I got my ticket... I was deeply dismayed to find out that a) packet radio is way, way behind the technical curve, and that b) it's dying out anyway. Kinda sucked the wind out of my sails.
Re:Going the way of the dinosaurs by LoneIguana · 2004-06-25 17:22 · Score: 1

In fact, the CW requirement has been eliminated from the Technician licsense for a number of years (FCC). The General licsense allows opperation on certain CW only bands that the Technician licsense does not. It makes sense to keep a code requirement if people are going to be allowed to operate on CW only frequencies.
Re:Going the way of the dinosaurs by KC7GR · 2004-06-25 17:39 · Score: 3, Informative

"For instance: sure, I can check my email over ham radio, but I'm not allowed to use encryption. So, to check my email I have to either a)broadcast my IMAP password to everyone within hundreds of miles, or b)disable passwords altogether and leave my mail account wide open..."

I have to speak up in response to this. I'm proud to have been active in amateur radio for 27 years.

The Amateur Radio SERVICE was never intended (nor needed, IMO) as a path for checking one's E-mail. If you want to do that via radio link, you need only invest in a wireless network card for your laptop, and hook up with any WiFi hotspot in your part of the country.

Permit me to quote from a few of the sections of FCC Part 97, in response to your specific queries regarding the "outdated restrictions" you refer to.

More specifically, let's start by looking at Section 97.1, Paragraphs a through e. Pay particular attention to Paragraph a:

"Recognition and enhancement of the value of the amateur service to the public as a voluntary noncommercial communication service, particularly with respect to providing emergency communications."

While it is possible to extend the term 'Emergency communications' to include E-mail, keep in mind that this is amateur RADIO, not amateur E-mail. We already have a perfectly usable infrastructure in place for E-mail, and I don't see why amateur RADIO needs to supplement it.

As to encryption, yes, it is prohibited for use on amateur frequencies. That point has been debated many times in many places, and the reasoning is simple enough. Given the service's strong emphasis on support of volunteer communications assistance, in times of disaster or other emergencies, the FCC believes (rightly so, IMO) that the use of encryption in amateur radio is contrary to fulfilling that basic purpose.

In short: Encryption is simply not necessary for any part of amateur radio, with the single exception of satellite command and control signals transmitted from an earth station. The FCC allows encryption for that signal type alone for reasons which should be obvious.

If I may be so bold: You appear to be trying to fit amateur radio into the mold of something that it is not (wireless data networking, specifically Internet connectivity), and was never intended to be.

Also remember that another of the primary purposes for the existence of the service is to foster experimentation and ongoing learning in the realm of radio and communications theory (in short: a whole lot of tinkering with electronic goodies -- yes, that means learning how to solder), as spelled out in 97.1 paragraphs b, c, and d.

If you're going up for your Technician license exam, you should already be fairly familiar with Part 97, and have (hopefully) taken at least section 97.1 to heart. Based on your statements in your post, I get the distinct impression that you have not.

My questions to you are: Why did you decide to get your ham license? What do you expect to get out of the hobby? What are you planning to contribute to it?

Amateur radio, like any other hobby -- for that matter, like Life itself -- is a near-perfect mirror. You get out exactly what you put into it.

--
Bruce Lane, KC7GR,

Blue Feather Technologies
Re:Going the way of the dinosaurs by Mister+Transistor · 2004-06-25 17:40 · Score: 4, Interesting

There is some recent salvation of Ham radio through the internet itself, believe it or not!

There are 2 new (relatively) systems called IRLP and another called EchoLink. These use the internet to link Ham repeater sites all over the world, using streaming audio (like "RealAudio") between stations.

There are nearly 1000 nodes in IRLP, my repeater uses that protocol, and I'm not sure but EchoLink probably has a similar number of nodes as well.

This is helping to unite Ham radio interests with those related to the internet. This is also providing new Hams, most of which are Technician class and have no "HF" or long-distance communications privileges, a means to talk outside of their local repeater area for a change.

Previously, operating on Field Day or going over to an "Elmer's" house and having him let you work the low bands was the only DX (long distance) exposure most new Hams would ever get. These new internet linking systems are helping to make that experince more readily available. Before the internet became popular, talking to someone in a strange and foreign land was a rare and exciting experience.

--
-- You are in a maze of little, twisty passages, all different... --
Re:Going the way of the dinosaurs by Torfmaster · 2004-06-25 20:59 · Score: 1

Well, I've passed my license at an age of 12 and did my CEPT B at an age of 14. Many of my ex-classmates did their "little license" at an age of 14. 1/5th of my class has a callsign. I don't think that Amateur radio is a dying hobby in Germany ( maybe in other countries ).
Re:Going the way of the dinosaurs by fred911 · 2004-06-25 21:06 · Score: 1

"a bit sad to see very few of the younger folk comming into the hobby, I'm not surprised"

You (geezers) shouldn't be. You recommended keeping code requirements even AFTER the maritime service licensing dropped ALL code requirements. Most clubs I've seen are the same old repeater fools protecting (not developing) the same old shit! Just plain ignorant.

There are the movers and shakers in the hobby today(they're just not represented by the ARRL).

--
09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B - D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0 45 5F E1 04 22 CA 29 C4 93 3F 95 05 2B 79 2A B2
Re:Going the way of the dinosaurs by Brian+the+Bold · 2004-06-25 22:19 · Score: 1

I think Phil Karn, KA9Q, said it best.

"The internet has subsumed everything that used to be interesting about amateur radio".

I've been licensed for 25 years, and find it hard to see much point in day to day radio usage. Useful for a very small number of things, but not many.

--
-- BtB
Re:Going the way of the dinosaurs by Goody · 2004-06-25 22:29 · Score: 1

Try out QRP and building equipment (homebrewing) and you'll find out the service is alive and well. I'm president of a small local club; we just got two new members this month. One is 14. :-)

--
Tired of being "punished" by the Slashdot $rtbl since 2002. I'm now over at http://soylentnews.org/ .
Re:Going the way of the dinosaurs by dlmarti · 2004-06-25 22:33 · Score: 1

I hope Amateur radio is around for a long time.
Field day is a blast!
I spent all day yesterday getting ready, packing in the morning and setting up in the late afternoon.

Now I just got up, checked my email, and found out that Field day was slashdotted!!!

In about 8 hours we'll be on the air.
I'm psyched!

CQ Field day, CQ Field day, this is Whiskey Two Zulu Quebec, W2ZQ. Yep, I'm ready.
Re:Going the way of the dinosaurs by Goody · 2004-06-25 22:37 · Score: 1

BSD is dying as well :-)

--
Tired of being "punished" by the Slashdot $rtbl since 2002. I'm now over at http://soylentnews.org/ .
Re:Going the way of the dinosaurs by Foxxz · 2004-06-26 00:41 · Score: 2, Interesting

I'm a young ham and its crap like this that keeps us out. Because you are too stubborn and DON'T want NEW uses for ham radio. Let it die then I say. Then when the FCC takes away your frequencies so someone can check their Email from their blackberry device I don't want to hear you bitching!

How about this... Phone lines are used for talking with voice! Why the hell would we ever want fax machines?! Theres another well setup infrastructure for sending documents, its called THE POSTAL SERVICE! Or why would we want to use a modem over the phone line to watch video? We have TVs, can't you be happy?!

I doubt Alexander Bell ever INTENDED the telephone system to be used for this purpose.

So lets spread out guys! Use ham radio for new things or we're gonna die! Fortune favors the bold and I for one don't mind bending the rules or going in grey areas. If I get in trouble, so be it. But, I'll at least have tried soemthing new. Maybe it will catch on and breath new life into this old horse.

-Foxxz
Re:Going the way of the dinosaurs by Chanc_Gorkon · 2004-06-26 00:43 · Score: 1

That could not BE more wrong. Spoken of someone who does not belong to the league. The ARRL only made these reccomendations because of what they were hearing from the membership. Now, the membership is saying we needs new blood and to do that, you get rid of the morse requirement for the low bands. You can now get a license by taking one test. Take 2 more teests (General and Extra) and a 5 wpm code test and you get an Extra. The code requirement may die off soon. By the way, it was only recently that the ITU reccomended no morse requirement for HF hams (WRC 2003 I believe). So morse will die....in fact, there may very well be only one license class as the FCC is looking for streamlining their license system. They have already done this by getting rid of the TECH PLUS and ADVANCED class(no new license issued with these). The ARRL recommendation for a new class (new novice) are misguided as all the FCC would need to do is change the current requirements for the tech license to add HF privleges (say 10m). That said, we are heading for a lower number of license classes...not a increased number. Some may say that it's not good...I say, it's just different.

--
Gorkman
Re:Going the way of the dinosaurs by Maineah · 2004-06-26 01:05 · Score: 1

I like the openness. If commercial use was allowed ham radio would die. Just look at what is happening to the internet. Spam and obtrusive ads are rapidly ruining that medium.
Re:Going the way of the dinosaurs by Anonymous Coward · 2004-06-26 01:14 · Score: 0

Lets see, my cell phone only lets me talk to one (1) person at a time. And my internet seems to require a huge amount of infrastructure to just do simple chats on IRC. The ionsphere on the other hand is free to use. You can't beat free and it aint' going away any time soon.
Re:Going the way of the dinosaurs by Anonymous Coward · 2004-06-26 01:21 · Score: 0

I've said this time and time again. When was the last time you were in a class room to talk to students about Ham radio / electronics? When was the last time you helped a neighborhood kid get involved in the hobby? I'm NOT a ham but I still belong to the local QRP (Low power radio) group. (I've got a code issue, yeah I know about no code licenses but...)

I'll make sure the neighborhood kids get exposed to Ham radio and electroncs when they get to the right age.

It's dying because no one is taking up the torch to teach the next generation.

There's something liberating about having the knowledge in your head on how to build a simple transmitter / receiver and communicate with someone far away.

Get out there and teach these kids!
Re:Going the way of the dinosaurs by Zonekeeper · 2004-06-26 01:39 · Score: 2, Informative

Well, I've been a ham for 12 years, and I can tell you that the hobby must expand or it WILL die. I totally understand that it is a hobby, and keeping it non-commercial is very important, but stifling the innovation and different ways it can be used WILL kill the hobby. Especially when the hobby was born out of the pioneering aspects of people who said, "Hmm, I wonder if this would work?" Placing ten tons of rules on the hobby has both helped it and hurt it. The morse code requirement kept the hobby relatively clean and pure, but also kept a lot of new blood out of the hobby, blood that wasn't CB trash, but were unable to wrap their minds around morse code. I was one of those. I was licensed at 15, and was immediately very active in the local clubs and was a key volunteer with the local Office of Emergency Management, often being one of the only ones that would help in an emergency such as weather. Ham radio gave me the incentive to help others and become active in the community. The thing that started my interest was that on my 13th b-day, I was given a TS440S and a PK232. I spent many nights listening to packet and RTTY chirps, watching a BBS in Guatemala, TG9AXB I think it was. It was the coolest thing I'd ever seen. I'm sure at some point, someone could have said that doing that wasn't right, that we already had postal mail and voice, etc.

Don't handicap the hobby by placing restrictions on reasonable technologies. Encrypting a password is not unreasonable. The Amateur Radio service is still free and anyone who wants to put forth the effort can get into. These days though, 2 meters is dead around here, and there's not much activity due to the internet and cell phones, as someone else said. We sure don't want to be hurting the hobby further by stifling its uses and ability to draw new blood in, and as a result, innovation and continunace of the hobby.

(BTW, we used to have big Field Day events around here. Harldy anything is done anymore, and that saddens the hell out of me.)

(PPS. Amateur Radio was never 'designed' to be anything. It evolved through human innovation. And it must continue to be allowed to, or the layer of dust on many radios will get thicker, save for the occasional large-scale emergency.)
Re:Going the way of the dinosaurs by Anonymous Coward · 2004-06-26 01:46 · Score: 2, Interesting

I got my license in 1965 and have been pretty much continuously active since then. I've heard these same forecasts of doom & demise for the past almost 40 years! Somehow ham radio lives on, morphing itself into a hobby that either invents new technologies, or incorporates other modes into new forms.

The one thing people need to keep in mind is that, when all other forms of communications fail (e.g., the Internet, cellphones, public service radios -- remember 9/11) ham radio gets through.

73,
GJ
(at the N2RE Field Day Site in Princeton, NJ -- google n2re.org for directions)
Re:Going the way of the dinosaurs by gfilion · 2004-06-26 02:10 · Score: 1

As an outsider, it seems to me that there's a connection between the lack of popularity of ham radio and the severe restrictions placed on what can be done with it. For instance: sure, I can check my email over ham radio, but I'm not allowed to use encryption.

I've been following the work of the ARRL High Speed MultiMedia (HSMM) WorkGroup and they found a nice hole in the law. You can actually use encryption as long as you publish the key. If someone (the FCC) wants to listen to your broadcast, they only need to get a copy of the publicly available key. So what the workgroup proposes is to publish your WEP/IPSec key on an obscure web page and not tell anyone but your friends about it. If the FCC comes knocking on your door, give them the URL.
Re:Going the way of the dinosaurs by scoove · 2004-06-26 02:26 · Score: 2, Insightful

I'm a young ham...when the FCC takes away your frequencies so someone can check their Email from their blackberry device I don't want to hear you bitching!

Did you ever imagine that there might be a reason for not letting you run commercial services over your amateur frequency?

RF is a scarcity model universe (and concepts such as UWB only 'help themselves' to those frequencies with an alleged 'limited' impact to other frequencies and services). Licensees such as AT&T have paid heavily for PCS, cellular, etc. and hope to recover their investment over time. Having amateurs offering free commercial service would cause real issues for the political longevity of amateur bands. Instead, consider amateur frequencies to be your laboratory, as well as a community for interaction with other amateurs from a non-commercial perspective (just pretend there's a big GPL license (apologies to GPL for my analogy!) and anything you do using it is commercially prohibited, but doesn't prevent you from putting your development to work later on in a commercial band if authorized).

RF also has territorial challenges as well, namely that a radio wave does not like to stay in a politically defined boundry. That's why Technician class licenses aren't allowed to operate on HF, for instance. There is a lot you can goof up internationally if you aren't trained, aware and responsible.

Use ham radio for new things or we're gonna die!

I wish folks would quit pretending they're the only ones to discover that innovation is important, and instead go find those who are innovating (or invent something yourself) and contribute. It's about as absurd as me saying "We have to quit exclusively relying upon Microsoft for all of the world's operating systems! Quick, someone's gotta innovate!" Hmmm... open source much?

Hams are innovating. Applications such as PSK-31 (and other weak signal, high-efficiency digital modes over HF), extreme gigahertz microwave, software-based repeaters, VoIP trunking of repeaters, etc. are all examples of this. There's plenty of room to contribute as well, as the application of open source approaches to amateur radio are really wide open. From what I've seen, there's a new class of software-aware (and open source inclined) hams emerging as the application-centric hams of yesteryear decline. It's pretty clear this is "pioneering" stage (similar to hams of the 1920s-30s) and will open up to tomorrow's early adopters and the mass user appeal further down the road.

*scoove*
Re:Going the way of the dinosaurs by Anonymous Coward · 2004-06-26 02:39 · Score: 0

I was deeply dismayed to find out that a) packet radio is way, way behind the technical curve

Yea, but if you consider that packet is a fantastic theory primer and sets a good foundation for all the advanced concepts in today's mesh and multipoint networks, then it's still relevant.

In fact, I think we need to encourage more people gen-x (of which I am) and on to actually learn the lower OSI layers. I'm constantly disgusted with MCSE after MCSE who can handle all the Microsoft-specific items, but doesn't understand what an Ethernet frame is, doesn't know where TLS encryption takes place, and is absolutely clueless about physical-layer issues (these are the same bozos who split pairs in Ethernet cable on patch cables and then blame the network engineer when devices start popping in and out!).

A General-class amateur license tells me someone's made an effort to learn OSI layer one and has a beginning foundation to build upon.
Re:Going the way of the dinosaurs by Anonymous Coward · 2004-06-26 02:42 · Score: 0

No RF engineering is more that a protocal or using a pringles can for an antenna. Ever wonder why your cell phone doesn't work in certain places? If we had more good RF engineer's we wouldn't have that problem.

Packet radio is not dying out. Ever see the high speed baycom modems? Have you looked at the person doing ethernet over 10 GHz?
Re:Going the way of the dinosaurs by Anonymous Coward · 2004-06-26 02:54 · Score: 0

The Amateur Radio SERVICE was never intended (nor needed, IMO) as a path for TALKING. If you want to do that via radio link, you need only invest in a TELEPHONE FOR YOUR HOUSE, and hook up with any BELL AFFILIATE in your part of the country.

While it is possible to extend the term 'Emergency communications' to include TALKING, keep in mind that this is amateur RADIO, not amateur TALKING. We already have a perfectly usable infrastructure in place for TALKING, and I don't see why amateur RADIO needs to supplement it.

Email is just another form of communication. And need I remind you that hams have been doing "digital" communication for years (packet) and other "mail" type applications for a long, long time (RTTY, Hellschrieber, etc.)?

We did/do radiotelegrams, too, even though Western Union was around. In disaster communications, allowing for the retrieval of important information in someone's email account (a ham, emergency worker, government official) might be an important service to provide.

There is plenty of room in the Amateur service to accomodate new uses and new technology as the years go by.

Jim kc0lpv
Re:Going the way of the dinosaurs by scoove · 2004-06-26 03:07 · Score: 2, Informative

Open source can change some of those things, but as far as hardware goes you still need someone willing to put up considerable amounts of money for manufacturing.

Let me provide some suggestions. I work with F/OSS development for network security and wireless applications, and have spent a few years working with low-cost embedded systems that support Linux. With a Linux kernel and OS in a small box, there's not much you can't do per amateur/wireless development.

My current favorite foundation is:

o RouterBoard from Mikrotik of Latvia. Pentium 233/266 performance, very low cost ($300ish), dual PCMCIA slots, dual Ethernet (in one of the two models), microPCI slot (wonderful!), and compactflash slot. Hardware watchdog and other goodies built in are things normally found on much more expensive embedded system boards.

o IBM/Hitachi Microdrive: My base development systems runs with a 1 GB Microdrive with Debian on it, though I've got a 4 GB setup with Gentoo and use the 370 MB version for production loads. Routerboard has a Debian developers kit available for download on the site, including watchdog control. Avoid compactflash/CF (Microdrive fits the CF profile but is an actual spinning device) unless you're certain you're going to have minimal writes over time, as they will eventually cease to write and become somewhat worthless (in my experience, low-write use lasts about one year).

o Debian or Gentoo for development environment: there are some embedded distributions out there but they're intended for when you're ready to reduce to your final low-profile image. Both these distros give you a good amount of control over what is going into your system. Embedded Gentoo will be nice eventually (with cross-compile support) but isn't there yet.

o Python: Not to start any language wars (or distro wars per above), but Python is a great place for amateur developers to work in. Frameworks like Twisted allow you to focus on your code and build upon the networking smarts of others. I haven't tried yet, but I keep eyeballing Shtoom for an amateur project as well.

*scoove*
Re:Going the way of the dinosaurs by ch-chuck · 2004-06-26 03:09 · Score: 1

There's still plenty of opportunity for experimentation with RF technology, just research SDR software defined radio, GnuRadio or the Tayloe detector patented in 1998 or so. People are actually using sound cards for ADC of 12Khz IF and doing the detection and filtering of AM/SSB/FM in software (fft, etc).

I just recently purchased a TenTec RX320 and love it because I can stuff it into a backpack along with a small battery, a notebook computer, a short antenna and headphones and hike out into the woods and setup a listening post away from urban rf noise for some real dxing.

--
try { do() || do_not(); } catch (JediException err) { yoda(err); }
Re:Going the way of the dinosaurs by Anonymous Coward · 2004-06-26 04:53 · Score: 0

keep in mind that this is amateur RADIO, not amateur E-mail.

Radio is a spectrum; e-mail is a potential application of that spectrum.

I don't think potential uses of radio should be restricted based on someone's idea of what is was "intended to be."
Re:Going the way of the dinosaurs by Rorschach1 · 2004-06-26 05:15 · Score: 1

Computer hardware's not the issue. I've got a Soekris net4501 box here running Debian that I've been thinking of setting up as a digipeater. It's been sitting here happily running on solar power alone for three weeks now.

The real problem is on the RF side. Ham radio operators need radios. All the crusty old farts who sit around ragchewing on HF and 2 meters all day at least keep hardware sales going. When there are fewer of them, the rest of us are going to suffer from increasing prices as volumes drop.
Re:Going the way of the dinosaurs by LinuxHam · 2004-06-26 05:17 · Score: 1

The Amateur Radio SERVICE was never intended (nor needed, IMO) as a path for checking one's E-mail

I think you realize by now just how damaging you are to our great hobby. Part of what makes amateur radio great is that people come up with new functions and uses all the time. Can't stand digital modes, huh? After 27 wonderful years making terrific contributions to the hobby like this little gem, you must have learned the phrase "use it or lose it". Did you know that we have frequency allocations above 30MHz? Did you know that those frequencies could be worth a crapload of money to the FCC and commercial interests? Think about this for a second. In the 10GHz band **ALONE** we have 500MHz. About 100 times what you HF bigots use. Maybe we want to do some more interesting things than just pound copper. If you want to learn about the exciting forefront of ham radio technology, check out the Icom D-STAR system. It lets us run voice and 128k data streams simultaneously on 1GHz mobiles and 10GHz backbone links. Boy, 128k continuous data streams. That must really chap your ass. What are you doing to help us keep 10GHz? Running a 1/4-watt CW beacon? Gee, thanks.

You sound like a crusty old curmudgeon.. looking up your call to see how much longer you're going to be around to "help" the hobby. Crap, born in 1960. Looks like you'll be around for a while yet. May BPL piss you off enough to sell all your gear.

--
Intelligent Life on Earth
Re:Going the way of the dinosaurs by M1FCJ · 2004-06-26 05:30 · Score: 1

Oh well, I'm licensed for 5 years now. I can't find any use in day to day life but it is fun. That's what is important for me.
Re:Going the way of the dinosaurs by j1m+5n0w · 2004-06-26 05:51 · Score: 1

If you want to do that via radio link, you need only invest in a wireless network card for your laptop, and hook up with any WiFi hotspot in your part of the country.

I think you have a bit too much faith in 802.11 if you think it's a drop-in replacement for a ham radio. I have used 802.11 at five miles with 24db antennas and direct line of sight. I wish there was a happy medium - I can either use high-throughput 35mw radios that go a few miles at best, but I can do anything I want with them, or I can (as soon as I get my license) use 1500 watt radios that can bounce signals off the moon (not that I plan to try this right away...), but I can't use them for anything useful unless its an emergency. Maybe the FCC will open up some more unlicensed spectrum, but I'm not holding my breath.
We already have a perfectly usable infrastructure in place for E-mail

Why do people talk over ham radio if they already have a telephone?
You appear to be trying to fit amateur radio into the mold of something that it is not (wireless data networking, specifically Internet connectivity), and was never intended to be. .... Also remember that another of the primary purposes for the existence of the service is to foster experimentation and ongoing learning in the realm of radio and communications theory (in short: a whole lot of tinkering with electronic goodies -- yes, that means learning how to solder), as spelled out in 97.1 paragraphs b, c, and d.

Soldering is not that interesting. Creating new routing protocols is. With a good routing protocol, a wireless network can use spectrum more efficiently and support more users. Communicating with people on the other side of the planet directly, without repeaters, does not scale well. Secure routing requires (at minimum) digital signatures (which, according to other posts, are permissible, since they don't obscure the meaning of the communication), or else a malicious user can bring down the whole network by advertising bogus routes.
If you're going up for your Technician license exam, you should already be fairly familiar with Part 97, and have (hopefully) taken at least section 97.1 to heart. Based on your statements in your post, I get the distinct impression that you have not.

Being aware of and following the rules is what is required. Agreeing with them is not. I'm willing to concede that they may be a necessary evil.
-jim
Re:Going the way of the dinosaurs by KC7GR · 2004-06-26 12:51 · Score: 2, Insightful

"I'm a young ham and its crap like this that keeps us out. Because you are too stubborn and DON'T want NEW uses for ham radio. Let it die then I say. Then when the FCC takes away your frequencies so someone can check their Email from their blackberry device I don't want to hear you bitching!"

Essence Above! I believe I've set a record for myself. NEVER before, in the entire time I've been posting to /., can I recall when one of my posts has been more grossly misinterpreted.

To start with: If "crap like this is what keeps us out," I'd be curious to know which "us" you're speaking for. If you've already gotten your license, then I was very obviously unable to stop you (not that I would have wanted to in the first place).

Also, I would point out that you don't know me from Adam, and you know less than NOTHING about how "stubborn" you think I am, or what you think I want or don't want for the amateur service.

Think about it! If I were truly against "new uses" for amateur radio, I would have already been up on my metaphorical soapbox, railing against things like PSK-31, UWB, APRS, and all the other NEW USES for the service that have come along in recent times.

Blackberries already work very nicely on the Nextel network, BTW. ;-)

In any case: I'm not now, nor have I ever been, AGAINST using amateur radio for E-mail. I'm merely trying to point out that it is not the most efficient medium for the transmission of such.

Consider this if you still don't believe me. I'm sure you're aware of how badly spam has already polluted E-mail on the Internet itself.

Do you REALLY want the same thing to happen to amateur radio?

73 de KC7GR

--
Bruce Lane, KC7GR,

Blue Feather Technologies
Re:Going the way of the dinosaurs by KC7GR · 2004-06-26 12:56 · Score: 1

"Don't handicap the hobby by placing restrictions on reasonable technologies. Encrypting a password is not unreasonable. The Amateur Radio service is still free and anyone who wants to put forth the effort can get into. These days though, 2 meters is dead around here, and there's not much activity due to the internet and cell phones, as someone else said. We sure don't want to be hurting the hobby further by stifling its uses and ability to draw new blood in, and as a result, innovation and continunace of the hobby..."

I could not agree with you more! My perception of the original poster's message was that he was disappointed because he could not turn his use of amateur radio into simply another Internet link-up. If I misinterpreted that, then I apologize.

In order to innovate, though, one needs technical skills, including knowledge of radio and electronics theory, construction practices (if you're planning to build prototypes), and the tools and test gear to do the 'innovation' part.

If I'm disappointed by anything in amateur radio today, it's the number of people who choose not to be 'tinkerers,' and contribute more to the technical side of the hobby.

--
Bruce Lane, KC7GR,

Blue Feather Technologies
Re:Going the way of the dinosaurs by KC7GR · 2004-06-26 13:00 · Score: 1

Jim, please don't twist what I typed out of context just to suit your quoting style.

I'm well aware of the digital modes, and radiogram handling. In fact, during the time I was living in the Bay Area in the late 70's, I was on the honor roll for radiogram traffic handling with one of the local voice nets, and a regular participant on the Mt. Tam RTTY repeater. I was working for Western Union at the time, and I'm proud to say that I had a fully-restored Teletype model 28ASR to handle traffic with.

I never said there wasn't room to accommodate new technologies. As I've already pointed out, I was concerned that the original poster was not looking at the 'big picture' of the amateur radio service.

--
Bruce Lane, KC7GR,

Blue Feather Technologies
Re:Going the way of the dinosaurs by Siddly · 2004-06-26 13:05 · Score: 1

I've been licensed as G3VBV since 1965 and I don't do as much hamradio as I used to, like designing gear, building complex transceivers and test equipment, but there is still some interesting stuff being done. We used to have a TCP/IP setup that used to deliver hamradio mail and news, head off to work and the stuff is there when you get home. The internet is also being used as an extension to hamradio, especially useful if you have broadband, I can connect to someone's VHF/UHF radio anywhere on the planet via internet links, computer to radio, radio to computer or radio to radio. There are some useful programs available for Linux that allow intercommunication with other hams using Linux/Windows/whatever, e.g echolinux and svxlink. I know that you can do much the same with e.g Skype, but there's still a hamradio community interested in hamradio topics of all kinds, satellites, moonbounce, TV etc. It's still a thriving industry, the companies making radios are introducing new radios and ancilliary equipment at a pace not seen before. People still get a buzz messing with antennas, my delight when I built a loop antenna last year and made contacts Stateside on the 3.5Mhz band for the first time, never having had the real estate to erect a normal wire antenna to span the pond on the low bands. If you get QST or any of the ham mags, you'll see it's still very alive and kicking with a good supply of youngsters as well as oldies taking up the hobby in retirement.
Re:Going the way of the dinosaurs by KC7GR · 2004-06-26 13:14 · Score: 1

"I think you realize by now just how damaging you are to our great hobby. Part of what makes amateur radio great is that people come up with new functions and uses all the time. Can't stand digital modes, huh?"

Of all the people that replied to this thread, your post struck me as the most angry and short-sighted.

What in the multiverse did I say in my original post to the effect that I "can't stand digital modes?" I operate APRS frequently, I'm getting the gear together even as I type this (receivers, computer, software, sound card) to allow me to do some major HF listening to, and acquisition of, digital modes because I want to understand signal acquisition and processing better than I do now.

This has always been one of the dangers of message boards, IMO. It is SOOOO easy to take someone completely out of context, simply because you're looking at characters on a screen instead of seeing them face-to-face.

"Damaging" to the hobby? If that silly statement had any truth to it, I might actually be offended by it. ;-)

"If you want to learn about the exciting forefront of ham radio technology, check out the Icom D-STAR system. It lets us run voice and 128k data streams simultaneously on 1GHz mobiles and 10GHz backbone links. Boy, 128k continuous data streams. That must really chap your ass..."

If it does, it's only because I can't afford to buy one right now and play with it. ;-)

"You sound like a crusty old curmudgeon.. looking up your call to see how much longer you're going to be around to "help" the hobby. Crap, born in 1960. Looks like you'll be around for a while yet."

Yep! And proud of it too. If you could have been bothered to do a little more research, instead of making all your assumptions from my original post, you might have discovered that I just completed formal disaster-response training (the CERT program) from our local fire department, and that part of my side business exists to help hams convert and use commercial radio gear on the amateur bands.

Did I mention I'm also going to see about getting involved with the local ARES or RACES group?

In any case: "Crusty?" Maybe a little. Only because I think there should be more tinkering going on in the hobby.

"Old?" Only if you define 44 as old.

"Curmudgeon?" Not yet. Give me another 50 years or so. Then I will be happy to 'curmudge' anyone who's crazy enough to invite me to. ;-)

73 de KC7GR

--
Bruce Lane, KC7GR,

Blue Feather Technologies
Re:Going the way of the dinosaurs by NateTech · 2004-06-26 18:51 · Score: 2, Insightful

Radio doesn't die, radio just is. Experimenters (hackers) for radio will always exist.

http://www.usbwifi.orcon.net.nz/

Case in point, above.

Ham radio's not dying, it's just constantly evolving. It all just depends on your definition of radio and whether or not you continue to experiment with it. Most newer Hams aren't experimenting, and if the "I buy my radios off the shelf and talk on them" aspect of the hobby dies off, I won't shed a tear. I'll still be experimenting with radio, with or without a license.

73 de WY0X

--
+++OK ATH
Re:Going the way of the dinosaurs by Zonekeeper · 2004-06-27 01:06 · Score: 0

Well, my thinking is that the more people we have involved, even those who don't do a lot of tinkering, the better of the hobby is as a whole. Even if someone is more of plug it in and go type person, they may influence someone else to join in the hobby, and *that* person may have a tinkerer inside them just needing an excuse to break out. I'm not someone who does a whole lot or playing around with things, although I have built some antennas from scratch, and that sort of thing. However, I have been influential in getting several others into the hobby, thereby helping to continue the hobby. I'd sure like to see another large influx of people like we saw with the no-code tech license. I fear that may not happen unless the internet collapses, and I'm pretty sure that isn't going to happen. (Not that I'd want it to, but lots of people are missing out on the fun of Radio...)
Re:Going the way of the dinosaurs by LinuxHam · 2004-06-27 02:27 · Score: 1

Thanks for the undeservedly calm response. I'm sorry I freaked out on you. I just can't stand how you positioned yourself as against anything that the service "was not originally intended for". In my calmer voice, *that* is the single worst attitude to have in the hobby, and that is what causes the most harm. Our bands are under fire every day, and if you keep turning interested newcomers away because they want to do something that wasn't envisioned in the 20's, that is a real problem.

You basically told that guy "don't bother becoming a ham because we don't want you checking your email here". What was particularly grating on my nerves was the way you emphasized RADIO, implying that phone or cw are the only acceptable modes.

Yes, you had me extremely pissed off, and while I appreciate your demeanor, I still don't appreciate your attitude about what's acceptable in our great hobby.

--
Intelligent Life on Earth
Re:Going the way of the dinosaurs by KC7GR · 2004-06-28 13:39 · Score: 1

Fair enough. I will add that there's darned little that I would truly object to in terms of operating modes. If somebody WANTS to check and send their E-mail via amateur radio, I have no issue with it. All I was getting at is that the person doing so may not find it to be the most efficient or pleasing means of doing so, simply because the service was never structured for doing so to begin with.

Oh, one other thing... If BPL "forces" me to sell any of my gear, I would point out that it would likely do the same to you (and one heck of a lot of other hams). ;-)

Keep the peace(es).

--
Bruce Lane, KC7GR,

Blue Feather Technologies
Re:Going the way of the dinosaurs by Anonymous Coward · 2004-07-02 04:26 · Score: 0

Was this routerboard the sort of equipment that used to be on the roof of that mall in Bellevue before you pulled a fly by night and removed everything in reach, or are there some of them locked in the cabinets of the datacenter that you'll never get back?

scoove must mean 'notorious collection problem' in some foreign language ...

Re:YAAA by LostCluster · 2004-06-25 15:26 · Score: 4, Informative

BPL= Broadband over Power Lines...

Which all users of RF technology of any kind consider a boogyman unknown because power lines weren't meant to carry any sort of signaling at all and therefore are completely unshielded. It's just plain a theoretical nightmare if this technology were to be widely deployed... nobody's quite sure how bad the problems for other applications would be.

This may be a nothingness, or it may be the death of ham radio depending on who you listen to.

Pretty cool by Grant29 · 2004-06-25 15:26 · Score: 4, Insightful

HAM radios are not as popular as they once were. I think events like this have the ability to bring the hobby to a new generation. With email being so easy to communicate with others around the world, it makes HAM radios look cumbersome.

I think the real attention grabber would be to show how these HAM radios have been around for so long and still continue to get the job done. After all, you can communicate around the world with technology developed before the Internet!

--
11 Gmail invitations availiable

Re:Pretty cool by LostCluster · 2004-06-25 15:29 · Score: 2, Interesting

It makes me wonder who would be connected first in a real disaster these days... HAM or an ad hoc WiFi net...

Maybe we should hold a race in some remote area to see who can deploy and communicate fastest in an unknown environment.
Re:Pretty cool by kfg · 2004-06-25 15:30 · Score: 1

After all, you can communicate around the world with technology developed before the Internet!

Even after -- all the lights go out.

KFG
Re:Pretty cool by Grant29 · 2004-06-25 15:32 · Score: 3, Informative

I think I remember seeing articles about how people used HAM radio's during the 9/11 attacks to call for help, report situations, and communicate with others. Of course wi-fi wasn't as popular then, but I believe HAM radios would have the edge on distance. Some wi-fi access points don't have coverage more than a few hundred feet.

--
11 Gmail invitations availiable
Re:Pretty cool by josecanuc · 2004-06-25 15:38 · Score: 3, Interesting

The question I would ask is: Connected to what?

Sure both Ham radio operators and wireless networking enthusiasts (note that those two groups aren't mutually exclusive!) could get connected to each other pretty darn quickly if a catastrophe were to occur.

WiFi operators are pretty much restricted to the low power transmitters and short wavelenth that the off-the-shelf equipment provides. Good antennas, amplifiers, and path design can make for links that extend dozens of kilometers, but the HF Ham rig in my truck can reach other Hams in the US and almost all other countries in the world with just a short whip antenna (1.5 meters and a coil).

It does draw more power and it's not digital. I could do digital data transfer on Ham HF bands, but not near as fast as WiFi. Both have infinite usefulness in emergencies and it's a shame that one is decreasing in use while the other is growing, rather than both growing. If both were growing, I think we would see more people interested in making the two fields interoperate better. The current group of Ham WiFi enthusiasts is small relative to the general "old codgers" of Ham radio.
Re:Pretty cool by scoove · 2004-06-25 16:14 · Score: 2, Insightful

HAM or an ad hoc WiFi net...

Actually... in our small town ham field day setup, there's both (why not?) Regarding first to be connected, there's much about ad hoc wifi that doesn't play in the real world of disasters. Running a fixed wireless company, I can tell you there's a niche certainly for gigahertz services, but nothing can replace the value of true slow NLOS services.

So while speed might be impressive at times, reliability trumps all in a disaster.

*scoove*
Re:Pretty cool by ipb · 2004-06-25 16:19 · Score: 3, Informative

How about ad-hoc 802.11 lan's linked via ham radio?
I've been preaching the benefits of this for several years now and the local ham community is starting to come around. More and more local Amateur Radio Emergency Service / Radio Amateur Civil Emergency Service (ARES/RACES) groups are becoming involved. 802.11 networks linked via packet radio TCP/IP based networks, with gateways to the internet as well as radio links amongst themselves.
See http://wetnet.net for details about our local Field Day plans.
N7IPB
Re:Pretty cool by Fubar · 2004-06-25 17:16 · Score: 1

Text based networks still have a place in ham radio. Even with the internet, packet has not gone away and has morphed into other uses (APRS).
In Minnesota, there's a guy on a crusade to completely cover the state with two separate text chat only networks (no mailboxes).
Fire in the BWCA? Amateur radio won't be replacing overloaded or destroyed infrastructure - there's none to begin with. Fire up a portable packet station and type in real time to the state EOC in St. Paul.
The project can be found here: http://14567.org/
Re:Pretty cool by Mister+Transistor · 2004-06-25 17:45 · Score: 1

You hit it on the head there, my friend. This is excactly what Field Day is all about. Test deployment of emergency equipment to simulate what would happen in a disaster situation. People go to remote areas all over the country (world?) and try to race to see how many contacts they can make in a 24 hour period.

--
-- You are in a maze of little, twisty passages, all different... --

BPL Info by nwf · 2004-06-25 15:26 · Score: 4, Informative

A good line from ARRL is at:

http://www.arrl.org/tis/info/HTML/plc/

Seems wireless internet would be far cheaper and more effective. Plus, some BPL solutions rely on 802.11 for the last 25 feet or so.

--
I don't know, but it works for me.

CQ FD CQ FD CQ FD by macman552 · 2004-06-25 15:27 · Score: 2, Informative

Hope to work you-- listen for K2CT on the air! Albany (ny) Amatuer Radio Association!
73 de KC2KVY

--
Hi! I'm a signature virus! Copy me into your signature to help me spread!

Re:CQ FD CQ FD CQ FD by Anonymous Coward · 2004-06-25 15:37 · Score: 0

I just got back from setting up W0BU's 3D operation in Rosemont, Minnesota, the Twin Cities Repeater Club's FD home. Hope to work all you fellow slashdotters.

73, KC0PZN
Re:CQ FD CQ FD CQ FD by k2dbk · 2004-06-25 15:46 · Score: 2, Interesting

My club, the 10-70 Repeater Association will be operating 12A (yes, twelve stations) as N2SE if all goes well tomorrow morning from Mahwah, New Jersey. Hope to work you!
Re:CQ FD CQ FD CQ FD by W2IRT · 2004-06-25 22:17 · Score: 1

Good luck to everyone. Please listen for the New York Hall of Science Amateur Radio Club's entry, WB2JSM. We'be operating 4A in NLI, 100W on 15, 20, 40 and 80 (10 if it's open)!

--
Cheers, Peter, W2IRT

Re:YAAA by rco3 · 2004-06-25 15:27 · Score: 1

Aha! Thank you.

Oh, BTW, first post.

--

Ce n'est pas un vrai mouvement de robot!

Providence Radio Association by Anonymous Coward · 2004-06-25 15:28 · Score: 1, Informative

I will be going up to Beaver Tail in Rhode Island with my dad... the PRA is the oldest Radio club in America (I'm pretty sure) lots of fun I hear.. 10am setup! HAM Radio is still alive and kicking... Nick

Re:YAAA by fatboy · 2004-06-25 15:30 · Score: 2, Informative

BPL= Broadband over Power Lines... Which all users of RF technology of any kind consider a boogyman unknown because power lines weren't meant to carry any sort of signaling at all and therefore are completely unshielded. It's just plain a theoretical nightmare if this technology were to be widely deployed... nobody's quite sure how bad the problems for other applications would be. This may be a nothingness, or it may be the death of ham radio depending on who you listen to.

According to the laws of physics, it will cause problems for all users of the HF spectrum. KE4PJW

--
--fatboy

Re:YAAA by DAldredge · 2004-06-25 15:31 · Score: 1

Why is it misguided? That video that /. linked to a week or so ago shows that the BPL interference only happens very close to power lines...

Field Day in Ann Arbor, Michigan by wb8wsf · 2004-06-25 15:35 · Score: 2, Informative

If anyone is interested in seeing ham radio in operation, come to Domino's Farms Saturday, and look for the antennas by the Petting Farm. We'll have HF ("shortwave" radio), and VHF/UHF radios and hopefully an Oscar station. We'll be trying to listen to some of the stronger stations that do Moonbounce, too.

Ham Radio isn't dying exactly--the numbers have stayed fairly static for the last several years, and in fact have risen in the last 10 or so, with the 'no code' Technician license. But it needs more people, thats certain.

Re:Field Day in Ann Arbor, Michigan by josecanuc · 2004-06-25 15:40 · Score: 1

For those interested: An Oscar station is one that communicates by relaying the signal (analog OR digital) through an Amateur Radio-carrying satellite orbiting the Earth.
Re:Field Day in Ann Arbor, Michigan by stienman · 2004-06-26 02:05 · Score: 1

Sweet. I'll be there sometime today - show it off to my toddlers. Something I've wanted to get into for a long time, but I already have too many 'hobbies'.

-Adam

Yeah.. by Hangin10 · 2004-06-25 15:36 · Score: 3, Insightful

I'm not that into HAM stuff, but my
father was. I went to plenty of HAMFests
and Field Days with him. Field Day is quite
fun, especially when you camp as well.

Before he died I managed his site with the
equipment he (mostly) used.
http://k2pts.home.comcast.net/

Field Day is fun, even if you're not into
HAM/radios, check it out!

Blackout 2003 by wing03 · 2004-06-25 15:40 · Score: 1

I heard nothing about HAM during the blackout last year and I doubt Wi-Fi would've made much of a splash.

But going to public parks and using HAM equipment would mean portable power and thus blackout-resistent.

More than I can say for heavy resource based Wi-Fi.

Re:Blackout 2003 by macman552 · 2004-06-25 15:54 · Score: 2, Informative

during the blackout, no, we weren't used to a great extent, however, we were used a little. I was in a spot where i could hear at least 3 counties where, although power was out in the cities, the repeaters were up and running using emergency power, and many hams were running using emergency power. All of them were on their radios ready to provide information if they needed to... however, we weren't needed except in a select few areas. We were ready to help in any way possible though.

--
Hi! I'm a signature virus! Copy me into your signature to help me spread!
Re:Blackout 2003 by sam1am · 2004-06-26 01:20 · Score: 1

Hams a Bright Spot During Power Blackout has some info on Ham activity during the 2003 blackout.
Re:Blackout 2003 by Anonymous Coward · 2004-06-26 01:44 · Score: 0

Ham radio was used during the blackout. Most people didn't hear about it for a variety of reasons. ONE of those is that many state and local government emergency operations centers use ham radio to some degree. Would you want them to go out of their way to publicise the fact that they use a non-secure source of communications during real emergencies when secure communications were down? And a major reason why they are insecure is the legal requirement banning such security. Heck, it took many years before the FCC allowed hams to use ASCII on the airwaves, saying it was a code that wasn't plain text!

its not an acronym by macman552 · 2004-06-25 15:41 · Score: 3, Insightful

hey, uh, guys? its not HAM radio, its Ham radio. no acronym... and I am 17, and i have several good freinds that have their tickets(ham liscences) that got them before i met them... and i didn't meet them on the radio. So obviously, the interest is out there... and anyone who is interested in some of the stuff here on /. might enjoy amatuer radio. 73 de KC2KVY

--
Hi! I'm a signature virus! Copy me into your signature to help me spread!

Re:its not an acronym by n4vu · 2004-06-25 23:53 · Score: 1

I'd love to know what the folks writing it in all caps think the three letter stand for.

HAMS are expanding their horizons... by Anonymous Coward · 2004-06-25 15:43 · Score: 0

If any HAMS are interested in seeing what distances they can get 802.11b (2.4GHz) communications to work go checkout:

http://www.wifi-shootout.com

Go out and join the party! :)

Re:HAMS are expanding their horizons... by macman552 · 2004-06-25 15:45 · Score: 0

heh we can run 802.11b under part 97 of the FCC regulations and crank out 1500 watts legally to get the range we need... anyone want their liscence now? --kc2kvy p.s. we wouldn't do that... well we might, but not if we caused interference.

--
Hi! I'm a signature virus! Copy me into your signature to help me spread!

why ham radio isn't popular by DNS-and-BIND · 2004-06-25 15:44 · Score: 0, Flamebait

Ham radio is like an AOL chatroom, only you get to talk to crochety 55-year-old men and their wives instead of police officers posing as 13-year-old girls.

In all seriousness, ham radio is a hobby whose time has passed. It's a chat protocol. Big deal. There are better protocols these days. Sure, you can make it do wacky things like send data, but come on, sitting next to a book and jotting down station numbers, trying to see how many you can get, is not a hobby. It's tedium for retirees...hey, it's better than slot machines, I suppose.

--
Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!

Re:why ham radio isn't popular by RealBeanDip · 2004-06-25 15:53 · Score: 3, Informative

I realize you're a troll, but...

The reason Ham radio has it ALL OVER any internet technology is that it requires exactly TWO pieces of equipment to communicate effectively across great distances.

When the 'net goes out, Ham radio will still work.

--
You know you're a geek if you've ever replied to a tagline.
Re:why ham radio isn't popular by nwf · 2004-06-25 15:56 · Score: 4, Informative

Not to mention when the phone system and satellite phone goes down. Impossible you say? Recall the LA fires of last year: no cell (towers burned town), regular phone didn't work (switching stations burned, and overloaded) and overloaded satellites. What was left? Ah, the obsolete HAM radio.

--
I don't know, but it works for me.
Re:why ham radio isn't popular by w9wi · 2004-06-25 16:45 · Score: 5, Insightful

That's long been a tension within the hobby. Are we about the medium, or about the message?

A large part of the hobby is about the medium. We really don't care what information is sent - we're interested in the method used to send that information.

Isn't that essentially the same motivation that drives kernel hackers? Who don't really care about what computing gets done, just that it can be done on a kernel they built themselves...
Re:why ham radio isn't popular by stratjakt · 2004-06-25 16:48 · Score: 0, Troll

"The medium is the message."

So said some old canadian fart.

--
I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
Re:why ham radio isn't popular by Mister+Transistor · 2004-06-25 17:53 · Score: 1

True. Which is why Hams talk about Radio, mostly.

--
-- You are in a maze of little, twisty passages, all different... --
Re:why ham radio isn't popular by DNS-and-BIND · 2004-06-25 18:19 · Score: 1

Which is exactly why *I* won't be connecting to your network.

--
Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
Re:why ham radio isn't popular by DNS-and-BIND · 2004-06-25 18:29 · Score: 1

When the internet goes out, the phone system will still work, too. Are you some kind of gun-nut survivalist? When the internet goes out (after the Rooshins attack, you mean), we'll be able to communicate by a two-way voice medium, subject to sunspots and the political meanderings of 55-year-old gun nuts?
Not a troll, just a truth-teller. The two are commonly confused, especially by zealots.

--
Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
Re:why ham radio isn't popular by hendersj · 2004-06-26 07:12 · Score: 1

If that's what you think amateur radio is all about, then clearly you don't understand it at all. So please stop dumping on a hobby you know nothing about.

Amateur radio is about radio technology - its uses and implementations. A lot of good comes out of the hobby. Thousands of lives are saved every year by storm chasers - something I used to do years ago living on the north edge of tornado alley. Amateur weather spotters are trained to spot tornado formation well before the funnel actually touches down, and the radio network that passes that information back to NOAA provides a life-saving service by allowing warning sirens to sound well before they might otherwise have been noticed. Radar picks up this type of meteorological activity, sure, but generally a lot later than a trained spotter will recognize the symptoms.

Amateur radio networks are also used a lot in Search & Rescue operations, providing critical communications and coordination of S&R teams involved in large scale searches in the middle of nowhere - no cell phone coverage, no internet. A good 2m radio will provide more than adequate coverage for most search areas.

Sunspots? Sunspots can be a problem, but not on all frequencies. If you knew anything about the principles of radio, you'd know that. Two-way voice medium? Try one-to-many medium, unlike your precious cell phone, which is only a two-way voice medium.

So - are you a troll, or a truth-teller? I guess that depends on whether or not you're willilng to admit that there are aspects to the hobby you didn't know about or perhaps weren't willing to acknowledge. A "truth-teller" would be willing to accept that they could be wrong. A troll will just keep beating the same drum regardless of the information presented.

Persisting in the same view when faced with contradictory information to that view is a form of zealotry.

--
Insanity is a gradual process; don't rush it.
Re:why ham radio isn't popular by j1m+5n0w · 2004-06-26 08:00 · Score: 1

Isn't that essentially the same motivation that drives kernel hackers? Who don't really care about what computing gets done, just that it can be done on a kernel they built themselves...

Open source software is also an instrument of social change - improving the linux kernel empowers the masses in addition to having a direct effect on other people being able to get their work done. This is a significant motivating factor for a lot of people, and is one reason why Linux is popular and Minix is not.
Wireless networking is also an instrument of social change - it allows people to communicate directly with each other without having to rely on third party infrastructure. Unfortunately, ham radio has too many restrictions to enable this sort of social change, so it's happening in the unlicensed spectrum (see the personal telco project for one of many example).
-jim
Re:why ham radio isn't popular by DNS-and-BIND · 2004-06-26 15:02 · Score: 1

Have you ever actually used ham radio? It's a bunch of old men bitching about Clinton and Reno (at least it was when I tried). Get a grip, you're not Superman, you're not Gotham City's greatest hero.

--
Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
Re:why ham radio isn't popular by hendersj · 2004-06-26 15:40 · Score: 1

Actually, I have used ham radio quite a lot - I've been licensed for over 10 years. Sounds like you're the one who needs to get a grip, not all amateur radio operators bitch about Clinton and Reno, in fact, the vast majority of them aren't even in the US.

--
Insanity is a gradual process; don't rush it.

Re:YAAA by DAldredge · 2004-06-25 15:48 · Score: 0, Redundant

And according to the video that was posted to /. about a week or two ago, BPL on harms communication when you are very near overhead powerlines.

Re:YAAA by nwf · 2004-06-25 15:53 · Score: 1

Well lots of emergency services use frequencies less than 30 MHz. This was used extensively during the search for the space shuttle debris in Texas and during the fires in LA. It's also used during weather events, etc.

Having many miles of unshielded wire overhead (i.e. a very, very large antenna) will, and does lead to interference. It's bad for radio, astronomy and people who enjoy listening to short wave.

Plus, it would be the responsibility of the electic company to eliminate any reported interference. They have a very hard time doing this now (and, in fact, frequently ignore it.)

We already have twisted pairs for telephone and shielded cabling for cable TV.

The cool part, though, is that a HAM operator can completely wipe out the network by keying up his/her transmitter. Not even allowing for the fact that they can transmit using 1500 W. Again, that big antenna up there from the electric company will receive it quite well...

--
I don't know, but it works for me.

Ham Radio is Cool by ihgwb · 2004-06-25 15:58 · Score: 5, Insightful

Field Day is great. Hams are volunteers serving their country in a time of uncertainty. We owe hams a great deal of gratitude for their work. Numerous incidents have shown how fragile our infrastructure has become (blackouts, hurricanes, tornados). Our country is ill prepared to handle disaster. This is why ham radio needs to be protected. Most people do not understand ham (or amateur) radio. They believe it's all about talking. It's not. Aside from the emergency service aspects, ham radio is about science. It's about engineering and design. It's about physics theory. A large number of professional engineers are also hams, such as electrical engineers, computer scientists, and pilots. The Internet has tremendous value. But long distance ham radio is much more challenging. The challenge is to build your own station, to understand Earth's ionosphere, and to make far away contacts with modest power. You hold the infrastructure. Hams have even put numerous satellites in orbit. I'll be operating at field day this year. If you want to find out what ham radio is all about, show up at your nearest club and take a look. It's fun! And what you do with the hobby is up to you!

Re:YAAA by DAldredge · 2004-06-25 16:03 · Score: 3, Insightful

No, that isn't cool. People saying crap like that will be used by those in power to remove your radios from you.

Hams are playing this like it is some game, and it isn't. You are fighting people with lots of money and power and making snide little comments will not buy you ANY friends.

I used to be on the hams side, till I realized they where acting like a bunch of spoiled kids and spining every piece of info to make their side look perfect and the other side look like the devil.

You are also overlooking the large push to move all those emergency services over to different systems that are much more resistant to interference (digital and encrypted links, look at the ads in mags targeting those useres)

Re:YAAA by fatboy · 2004-06-25 16:14 · Score: 4, Insightful

You are also overlooking the large push to move all those emergency services over to different systems that are much more resistant to interference (digital and encrypted links, look at the ads in mags targeting those useres)

The reason these frequencies are used is because of ionospheric propagation. (Over the horizon propagation.) You can use digital and encrypted links via ionosphere, but to use another part of the spectrum requires infrastructure that can fail.

The HF spectrum is a natural resource. We should not pollute it simply because it can be used to deliver broadband internet access.

--
--fatboy

Palo Alto Field Day and Ham Instant Messaging by leighklotz · 2004-06-25 16:20 · Score: 4, Interesting

I will be helping out at the "Get On The Air" station
at the Palo Alto Amateur Radio Association field day. Non-hams are welcome to come to the GOTA station in Saturday after 11AM and get on the air.

I will be helping demonstrate something called "PSK-31" which is
kind of amateur radio Instant Messaging. With your laptop
computer and a small radio running on AA batteries and a piece of wire,
you can talk halfway around the world, instantly.

Read all about it at my PSK presentation for non-hams. And if you are in the Bay Area, come check us out, or
one of the other area Field Day sites such as

Re:YAAA by fatboy · 2004-06-25 16:36 · Score: 2, Insightful

And according to the video that was posted to /. about a week or two ago, BPL on harms communication when you are very near overhead powerlines.

Don't forget the ones located in your walls and feed power to your radio equipment :)

--
--fatboy

Re:I'm interested but... by hendersj · 2004-06-25 16:49 · Score: 3, Insightful

You can use it for data - I have used it that way off and on for over 10 years.

Packet radio has been around a long time, in fact, that was my first connectivity to the Internet.

--
Insanity is a gradual process; don't rush it.

Field Day in Greenville, MS by smnolde · 2004-06-25 17:03 · Score: 1

... will be held at the American Red Cross Center. Fish fry for lunch.

73,
KD5ZEF

I am a little sad to see this post as number 1.. by the_rajah · 2004-06-25 17:03 · Score: 3, Interesting

I'm an Extra class ham too and have been licensed since 1958 at age 11. While there is clearly truth in what he said, as others have pointed the number of licensees has been increasing over the past few years and we're finding a number of new challenges and that's what ham radio is really about, technical challenges. I've operated with full legal power to a beam on a 125 foot tower and it's not nearly as much fun as the station that I have now which maxes out at 20 watts with a dipole antenna at 30 feet. It's a lot more of a challenge. The MOST fun is my 4 watt rig on 20 meters in the car using a 4 foot antenna. I've made solid contact with all continents using that setup. Now that's really a challenge.

There are lots of other ham radio areas that offer geek challenges, too. You can still "homebrew" your own gear. It doesn't take thousands of dollars to have fun. Microwave distance records fall regularly as do records at the opposite LF end of the radio spectrum. Data communications using packet techniques on VHF/UHF and other digital modes, such as packtor, on the HF (shortwave) bands predate the Internet as we know it we know today. In 1962 I had a teletype machine and a "terminal unit" AKA modem tied to my shortwave setup and was routinely communicating with friends around the world digitally. Now we hook our computers to our radios

Ham radio has been VERY good to me. In 1969 and 70, I got to travel to parts of the world I'd never have seen without ham radio. I was with Project Hope and I used ham radio so that the doctors, nurses and volunteers talk to their family and friends back in the states via phone-patch without it costing $13 for the first 3 minutes via landline.

Being involved with ham radio also encouraged me to go to college and get a degree in Electrical Engineering which has provided me with a very interesting and satisfying career that has consistantly paid me well on top of being fun.

I've watched ham radio evolve over the course of almost 50 years and it's still evolving. I'm not ready to declare it a dinosaur just yet.

73 & CUL

"Do the Right Thing. It will gratify some people and astound the rest." - Mark Twain

--

"Do the Right Thing. It will gratify some people and astound the rest." - Mark Twain

Re:YAAA by mercuryresearch · 2004-06-25 17:17 · Score: 3, Informative

Amplifying on why some emergency services are staying with HF and are NOT moving to the newer UHF/Microwave stuff, and why high-frequency/shortwave communications are important:

A number of services use a technique known as NVIS (Near-Vertical-Incidence-Skywave.) NVIS is basically sending your signals nearly straight up, with a well-chosen frequency that gets reflected almost straight back down by the ionosphere. These frequencies are nearly always in the HF bands (~3-30 MHz).

This particular mode of communications is really helpful in situations where there is no infrastructure and no line of sight. A classic example is forest fires -- the fire often knocks out communications repeaters, and often mountains/hills isolate pockets of firefighters with no line of site communications; NVIS overcomes this as the signals are usually coming in from directly above. It also works well for islands or really any regional communications with limited support infrastructure.

As mentioned elsewhere, you can run pretty much any modulation scheme (digital data, voice, whatever) using NVIS. But both sides need to hear the signals, and the concern is that BPL could prevent one side (likely the home base/communications center side rather than those in the field) from being able to hear, thus preventing any useful communications.

Fun if done right! by rspress · 2004-06-25 17:28 · Score: 1, Informative

I have been to many a field day and in our part of California it is usually freakin' hot. We used to stay outside and grab sleep when we could.

My last field day a friend and I arrived in an air conditioned motor home with lots of food and cold drinks in the fridge. We also had our Macs hooked up to do digital communications like Packet, RTTY and the like. Good thing, it was the hottest Field day they ever had.

That's why its FUCKING COOL. by Anonymous Coward · 2004-06-25 17:49 · Score: 1, Insightful

The fact that the amateur radio service allows you to use homebuilt, non type-approved gear is part of what makes Ham radio so COOL.

BPL! BPL! BPL! by Anonymous Coward · 2004-06-25 17:51 · Score: 0

noodles...

Ham in Search and Rescue by kavachameleon · 2004-06-25 18:02 · Score: 2, Interesting

The SAR (Search and Rescue) team my college runs uses Ham for most of our communications needs. It's actually a pretty sweet setup, and a joy of a thing to see. We set up a mobile communication station with very little notice that runs off marine batteries in the middle of nowhere and talks to half the state. We're thinking of connecting the search teams' GPS units to a small packet radio transmitter, which would broadcast back to the Strike Team Leader's laptop, instantly plotting their locations. The STL laptop would rebroadcast the packets back to the Operations Center at the campus.

At least in New Mexico, Ham radio has saved countless lives.

73 de KD5ZPL

Independence Day anyone?? by kc8jhs · 2004-06-25 18:34 · Score: 2, Insightful

That scene towards the end of the movie wasn't unrealistic at all. Think about it some time...amateurs maintain a world network, pretty much primitive, and low tech, yet powerful enough to not worry any government, yet be able to communicate how they want when they want, without government interference (Licensing of course...).

My personal ham site where I have a few pictures of the first and second field day I participated in. The first one, I was 17, organized the whole event in about 3 days. The second one was planned over about a month, and included more of my peers, and one mentor. Whole setup ran off of a generator, and was pretty much 100% self sufficient.

-Mikey P

Why Ham should Matter to /.ers by Anonymous Coward · 2004-06-25 18:49 · Score: 2, Interesting

The last couple of years, I've done Field Day w/ one of my best buds. I don't ham...likely never will, just don't have the desire, but my buddy is pretty heavily into it, and has developed some popular PSK31 s/w (sorry, no URLs, I'd hate to /. his site).

Its both fun and very educational. For those of you stuck in the digital realm, events like Field Day expose (yet again) how flexible/adaptable analog comm can be compared to internet or any other digital environment.

Downside: many operators now seem hung up on contests on Field Day, sticking around their shack to see how many contacts they can make.

Upside: the vision of my buddy, with safety goggles, and a Zebco reel duct-taped to a Wrist-Rocket, shooting a dipole up into some lodgepole pine near Mt. Adams, WA. Then pulling in contacts worldwide under the stars next to a campfire using a little mobile unit from his car.

Ham Radio However Dead Or Not Is Important by wierra · 2004-06-25 18:51 · Score: 0

I dont have to think to hard to remember last year during Firestorm 2003 in British Columbia. We played a large part in passing traffic between evacuation centers and the EOC etc. Though we didnt get much media coverage ourselves I feel we were an important part of the effort.

Re:YAAA by Anonymous Coward · 2004-06-25 18:52 · Score: 1, Funny

I'm working in a secret project called BoB: Broadband over Batteries. Since batteries can reach places that power lines can't, this kind of technology will kill all other (animal or electric, analog or digital, wired or wireless) communication means... mmmh... soon.

My Pet Peeve by ChuckleBug · 2004-06-25 18:56 · Score: 2, Informative

Dammit, Ham is NOT AN ACRONYM!!!

PLEASE stop writing HAM as if it were. There is more than one etymology for the word, but none of them are acronyms.

Re:My Pet Peeve by Trevin · 2004-06-28 03:02 · Score: 1

HAM: Handheld AMateur radio

Re:YAAA by Anonymous Coward · 2004-06-25 19:11 · Score: 0

Oh yeah, I forgot to tell you something you stupid fuckwit. The cry-baby "hams" are not the only ones protesting BPL. A part of the government/military (the NTIA) is also not in favor of widespread BPL implementation. Looks like you're going to have to find some irrelevant reason to hate the NTIA in order to continue to support your lame argument.

Re:YAAA by DAldredge · 2004-06-25 19:21 · Score: 1

Did I touch a nerve?

A funny thing about the list of corps that oppose BPL, a lot of them have invested a lot of money in other methods of broadband delivery..

Our goverment is huge, I bet you could find sections of the goverment that like bpl (have any links to backup what you said?)

If this is too hard for you to understand I will try to find a 6 year old to explain it to you.

Oh, yeah, by the way... by Mister+Transistor · 2004-06-25 20:14 · Score: 2, Interesting

Pardon me replying to myself, but I just thought of a good P.S. to the parent post - I forgot the best part, that IRLP is a Linux-based application!! It runs under a stripped down version of Red Hat Linux. EchoLink is Windows-based freeware, AFAIK.

--
-- You are in a maze of little, twisty passages, all different... --

Re:Oh, yeah, by the way... by Chanc_Gorkon · 2004-06-26 00:18 · Score: 1

Echolink is also on the mac. Do a search for Echomac.

I also believe there's a EchoLinux available as well.

The unique thingh about Echolink is you do not need a radio to use it. The Echolink server and their admins verify you inb the callbook and then you sign into the server....no radio needed, IRLP requires a radio on each end (I think).

Ham radio's biggest problemm now, besides BPL and besides declining intrest is that the older hams will poo poo technology such as Echolink and say it's not Ham Radio. The only think that may stop Echolink is the FCC and so far they have said it's ok. I say it is too. The folks running Echolink make sure that you are licensed. They also will police the datatbase themselves looking for unscrupulous people getting id's using SK call signs. My grandfather, the original W3RAZ, would say that the digital modes used to day are not ham radio either. All he really did was SSB and 2 m FM. He also hated older computers as they created all kind of interference on the bands mostly because they ran at a much lower frequency back then (remember most machines ran around 4,77 MHz back then...much closer to many HF bands).

--
Gorkman

Field Day In NYC by Skorgu · 2004-06-25 20:49 · Score: 1

The AARL has a lot of information on Field Day events, but much of it is difficult to find. For those of us in NYC Metro, the relevant information is: here.

Re:Field Day In NYC by Skorgu · 2004-06-25 20:52 · Score: 1

Err... ARRL

Tampa ARC by Anonymous Coward · 2004-06-25 21:32 · Score: 0

My club, TARC, will be gunning hard this weekend. Especially listen for (and work) our GOTA station: N4SEX.

More information... by NEOtaku17 · 2004-06-25 21:39 · Score: 1

Here is some extra info about "ham radio" and its history.

--
Creative Demolition

My first Field Day Experience by Anonymous Coward · 2004-06-25 22:51 · Score: 1, Interesting

It's 1995 and I have been relocated for my job to a semi-rural area. With lots of spare time on my hands, I decide to explore amateur radio. After a number of evening drives to the Big City to take the exams, I have my Advanced ticket.

I try packet, shortwave, SAREX, SSTV; I talk to clubs across the country having day-long Field Day picnics.

So I'm excited to check out what the nearest club is doing on Field Day. When I arrive at the campground on the top of the tallest hill for miles, it's a bit of a disappointment. The club's Field Day activity consists of a pop-up trailer with 3 pasty dorks inside, 1 HF set, 1 VHF set, 1 fridge full of beer, and a portable generator in need of a tune-up.

Less than a year later, I purchased a Walnut Creek FreeBSD CD set and a Slackware '96 CD in a bookstore on a whim. That was nearly the end of ham radio for me, except my packet radio setup became briefly more complicated using NOS, JNOS, etc.

Some observations that may be considered flamebait:

- The 20 meter band is a great place to get information on the health conditions of the WWII generation.

- Someone one told me: "There are young hams and there are married hams. But there are no young, married hams."

- All that dropping the code requirement for Extra class has achieved is to make it possible for 7-year olds to take all of the written elements and the laughable 5 wpm test in one sitting. (No, I was never able to crack 20 wpm; I will keep my Advanced license.)

- Burt Fisher is a crank, but at least he has a sense of humor about the hobby.

- The public Internet didn't/won't kill ham radio. Every ham thinks the hobby has gone downhill since the "good old days" when they started. What will kill ham radio is when the Japanese stop making ham rigs. Radio Shack struck the first blow.

Re:My first Field Day Experience by DoctorPepper · 2004-06-26 01:05 · Score: 1

- The public Internet didn't/won't kill ham radio. Every ham thinks the hobby has gone downhill since the "good old days" when they started. What will kill ham radio is when the Japanese stop making ham rigs. Radio Shack struck the first blow.

Even that won't kill Amateur Radio. Yes, it will put a severe crimp in it, especially for those that like "plug & play" radio, but there will always be groups world-wide that continue on with older gear, or small home brew radio equipment.

--

No matter where you go... there you are.
Re:My first Field Day Experience by BrianRaker · 2004-06-27 10:24 · Score: 1

...and as long as TenTec continues to make same damn fine HF rigs... there'll still be HF here in the US at least.

--
As I walk through the valley of death I fear no one, for I am the meanest sonova bitch in the valley!

Grand Haven, MI by SagSaw · 2004-06-26 00:46 · Score: 1

If you are in the Grand Haven, MI area this weekend, come out and visit the North Ottawa Amateur Radio Club's site at the Hofma Preserve. From US-31, take Robbins Road east to Beechtree/168th Street, then take 168th south about 1.5 miles to Sleeper. Follow Sleeper east until you hit the preserve. 73 de KC8DEI

--
Come test your mettle in the world of Alter Aeon!

Re:YAAA by Chanc_Gorkon · 2004-06-26 01:09 · Score: 1

Snide comments won't buy you friends....I will buy that. But the power companies pushing BPL are doing so without looking at the technical reasons behind why we so oppose it. Power companies ar epushing BPL for the almighty dollar. BPL has been PROVEN to spew noise across the spectrum from the VHF band and all the way down the HF band. The ARRL and others against BPL are trying to get it turned down not because of their ownn selfish intrest either. BPL may also adversely affect cable tv and VHF broadcat band. AM radio may even be affected. May I also remind you that it was probably 2m equipment that went up first for service at the WTC site? Hams provide a vaulable service and it's this service that we defend. Ham radio has also been included in the national security plans as well. The ARRL has recently started offer EmComm classes so hams can learn about Emergency Communications. Something we still need. Your cellphone and internet may work this morning, but later something could happen. Terrorists coudl take out a power plant or some important building in down town. Maybe the one that has all the cell towers on it. No matter what happens, there are always hams ready to stand in.

--

Gorkman

Mods on crack by rco3 · 2004-06-26 01:09 · Score: 1

So this is what passes for a troll post these days? Nice.

I also like the fact that the very first mod was "-1, Overrated". How does that work?

--

Ce n'est pas un vrai mouvement de robot!

FD 2004 in North Los Angeles County by hypertex · 2004-06-26 02:42 · Score: 1

W6JW, the Santa Clarita ARC is holding their FD at the water plant in Saugus.
I-5 to Valencia Bl (East)
Left on Bouquet Cyn(North)
Right on Central Park (1+mile)
Go up hill to the site

See you there! KC6WGR

Reagan Funeral by hypertex · 2004-06-26 02:48 · Score: 2, Interesting

Lots of Ventura county's Disaster Communications hams helped out the Secret Service and others keep track of the goings on in the past weeks. You'll never read about it in the press. For instance, they actually "ploughed the road" in front of the motorcade.

Amateur radio is still needed by lugar · 2004-06-26 03:37 · Score: 1

Extra class here as well.

Let me just say that events like 9/11 and the massive power outage we recently had help people realize that cell phones aren't infalliable. During those events, what was the most reliable modes of communication? Big media satelite, and, you guessed it... Amateur radio!

Add in things like amateur storm chasers (which I do as well) saving lives every year, and you've got a field that cannot ever die. At worst, all it will do is become a small niche.

The need for amateur radio (beyond simply a hobby) is still here, and it won't go away anytime soon.

Bad weekend by Angry+Black+Man · 2004-06-26 03:46 · Score: 1

probably a bad weekend to hold this since most parks here in atlanta are full with gay pride participants.

Seriously, I would like to go but seeing as its Gay Pride festival weekend I dont think there will be any space for amatuer radio.

--
the byproduct of years of oppression by the white man

Re:Bad weekend by Anonymous Coward · 2004-06-26 22:19 · Score: 0

You forgot about all the Gay Hams!

Showed up at Mississauga, Ontario meet! by Llama_STi · 2004-06-26 09:20 · Score: 1, Interesting

Saw this early in the morning and decided to crash the party. Wanted to look around a bit and see what this whole thing was about. Got there and immediately I was greeted by one of the organizers and shown around. A thirty minute tour later he shook our hand and sent us on our way. Pretty friendly guy, Sohail Anjum VE3ITU, and ready to spread the word.

Now I'm actually pretty intrigued by the whole thing. They were using WiFi equipment with custom Linux firmware for their Linksys routers. They all had laptops for auto-logging their calls. Pretty cool! :) They had one superstar, John Duffy, who could do 50 words a minute over morse code!!

If anyone's interested, I ran into this website, M.A.R.C., that is for the GTA area.

Funny what you can run into by just following a whim...

damn English language. by Anonymous Coward · 2004-06-26 17:02 · Score: 0

It seems my conversation over HF is obscure to those pesky Italian speekers. So that means I need to waive my friggin arms whenever I speak? How do I broadcast a verbal-ized brail message for the deaf? Ugh! Interpretaion violates the rule of this law... yet I am certain the FCC is violating freedom of speach in one's religious language propogated over the magnetic radio frequency waves.

BPL and Amateur Radio by pr0cess · 2004-06-27 01:30 · Score: 1

You forgot to mention the relationship between BPL and Amateur Radio. Not everyone knows what BPL has to do with hams... Broadband over Power Line (BPL or PLC), if not very carefully planned and controlled, turns a city's electric wires into radiating antennae. This has caused concern among many groups, and among hams who operate on many of the frequencies the radiation can affect. When BPL goes wrong, it generates interference which can wipe out entire segments of the electromagnetic spectrum. Due to the strength of the radiation, the affected segments are basically unusable by radiocommunications services of any type.

Well, goodbye then. by thbusch · 2004-06-28 02:00 · Score: 1

Did you even bother to find out why encryption, music, and commercial traffic are forbidden?

I am honestly tired of hearing the traditions of a 100+ year old art and the defense of them called "crap."

Here is more "crap" for you.

Commercial interests don't want hams broadcasting music. Hobbyists dropped out of broadcasting by the thirties. If you want to do it now, you can buy a 100 mw Part 15 kit from ramsey electronics to wow your neighborhood with your Britney Spears collection.

So far, no one has come up with a case for encryption of ham radio traffic that SERVES THE PUBLIC INTEREST. Downloading your e-mail is not in the Basis and Purpose of amateur radio.

If you don't like the rules, come up with a way to change them. Anyone can petition for new rules. FCC just denied another petition to allow broadcasting. Otherwise, sell your books and equipment on Ebay and get out of the way.

I'd rather see the hobby die than be populated by whiners.

152 comments