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EC Suspends Microsoft Sanctions Due to Appeal
An anonymous reader writes "The European Commission has suspended sanctions against Microsoft stemming from a ruling that the group had abused its dominant market position."
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Just patent sanctions in the EU. No more pesky anti-trust problems.
M$ will lose the appeal.
Professional Politicians are not the solution, they ARE the problem.
The beginning of the EU caving in to M$ and the US. It is the one of the last bumps in the road before the EU goes the US route of worshipping big corporations at the exclusion of all else. Corps can do NO wrong.
In Bushworld, they struggle to keep church and state separate in Iraq as they increasingly merge the two in America.
Hello,
The EC voted for patenting software. Why should we be impressed by this new decision?
Kisses
--
You'd stumble in my footsteps (Depeche Mode, "Walking in my shoes")
This is sheer lunacy. Micro$haft was found in violation and needs to be punished.
In my opinion the fine should have been collected _then_ returned if the appeal overturned the issue.
Or maybe not returned even then.
"Bah!" - Dogbert
From the article, just to avoid the /. effect:
Microsoft has vowed to fight the EC's ruling
The European Commission has suspended sanctions against Microsoft stemming from a ruling that the group had abused its dominant market position.
The move came after the world's largest software company appealed against the decision at the EU court early in June.
The EC stressed that the move was an "interim measure" until a court had ruled on Microsoft's request. Microsoft has also asked for a long-term suspension of EU-imposed changes to the way the firm operates.
The changes ordered by the Commission include selling a version of Windows without its media player software.
Record fine
Microsoft was ordered to unbundle the software within 90 days - that deadline runs out on Monday.
The EC, in its March ruling, also hit Microsoft with a record fine of 497m euros (332m) and gave it 120 days to reveal details of its Windows software codes, so rivals could design compatible products more easily.
The remedies will not only hurt Microsoft, they will hurt many other software development companies and web site developers who have built products for the Windows platform
Horacio Gutierrez, Microsoft lawyer
But on Friday, the company appealed to the Court of the First Instance in Luxembourg, asking it to suspend the orders for as long as its case remains before the European Courts.
That could see the penalties suspended for as long as three years.
As it announced the suspension, the Commission said that "in the interest of a proper administration of justice", it was delaying the implementation of its measures "while a Microsoft application for interim measures is being considered".
But it added that the decision to put the punishment on hold was "without prejudice to Microsoft's obligation to implement the remedies" if the court decides to reject Microsoft's request.
Unfair advantage
"The Commission believes that the remedies are reasonable, balanced and necessary to restore competition in the marketplace and that there is a strong public interest in favour of implementing them without waiting for the judgement on the substance of the case," a statement added.
Microsoft has vowed to fight the Commission's finding that it had broken competition laws, arguing that the EC sanctions will stunt competition and innovation, and limit consumer choice.
Microsoft's Windows software runs on about 90% of the world's PCs.
Rivals, including Real Networks, have complained that the company was unnecessarily bundling in software with its operating system, and as a result gaining an unfair advantage.
One of the main bones of contention was Microsoft's media player - software used to play audio and video, as well as to burn CDs.
'Lost forever'
Bundling media player in with its Windows software meant that consumers rarely looked for similar products offered by other companies, critics argued.
The EU agreed and told Microsoft in March that it had 120 days to reveal details of its Windows software codes so rivals could design compatible products more easily.
It was also instructed to offer a version of its Windows operating system minus the media player within 90 days.
It could, however, still sell Windows with the media player included.
"The remedies will not only hurt Microsoft, they will hurt many other software development companies and web site developers who have built products for the Windows platform," the company's lawyer Horacio Gutierrez said.
Well, I can understand the appeal making sense in witholding the source code - once its out in the public domain you really can't get it back in.
As for the fine, however, they should pay up now like most ordinary people do when they lose a court case (You normally have to pay costs upfront if you lose a case before you can appeal, at least in Australia and most places elsewhere I suspect too).
Michael
There is no cryptographic solution to the problem where the intended receiver and the attacker are the same entity.
From article:
Microsoft was ordered to unbundle the software within 90 days - that deadline runs out on Monday.
Paraphrasing:
EU: "You must unbundle the software in 90 days"
Microsoft: "Is it ok if I decide to not do it instead of doing it?"
EU: "Ok!"
Sometimes, court rulings should be just that.
It would be cool if it didn't suck.
Given that even CERT is now warning against teh use of some MS components I hope that the rest of the platform gets the thumbs down it richly deserves.
Anyone involved in risk management shoudl by now have woken up to the fact that the MS platform combines high cost with high risk. Does it surprise anyone that people choose alternatives that combine low risk with low cost?
The law is too slow - let the market decide.
These tactics seem about as sleezy as the SCO crap.
Makes me want to smake the judges over the head. What is obvious to the majority seems totally ignored by them - managerial blindness or ignorance or something....
I agree. When you're thrown in jail for being convicted of a crime, they don't let you go just because you're put in for an appeal. They throw your ass in jail and you can wait there.
The same should be true for monitary punishments. Pay up, and if you win, you can have it back. It's still better then jail time, because they can't give you back lost time.
- It's not the Macs I hate. It's Digg users. -
i got no mod points but...
certainly for a company with that much $$ laying around, its not unreasonable to collect the fine before the appeals process is done. im all for innocent until proven guilty, but you only need to be proven once. then you are proven guilty until overturned.
in most systems for punishing you can make an (some sort of)appeal(or delay) and sanctions don't come into effect before they're cleared... ...people, this was expected of MS, by fucking everybody, and once again the SLASHDOT IS MAKING SCANDALOUS FUCKING YELLOW PRESS SHIT HEADLINES.
and lemme tell you something, yellow press sucks without pics of sexy women.
world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
their monopoly and the choke hold on the market is coming to an end. we don't need no stinkin' corrupt legislation/lobbying to bring that about. let the big corps and the legislators shake hands and shake whatever else they do for each other. the people will have moved on. they will become irrelevent. and in this respect the GPL is brillient. it's a check-mate to them, using their rules, on their turf. long live the GPL/FOSS.
yesterday it was apache/linux on the servers. today it's firefox on the desktop. tomorrow it will be one more. the dominos are toppling.
Is this an example of what George Orwell called "doublespeak"? I thought 1984 was 20 years ago...
"I agree. When you're thrown in jail for being convicted of a crime, they don't let you go just because you're put in for an appeal. They throw your ass in jail and you can wait there."
Martha Stewart is out pending her appeal. So yes it happens, in fact it happens quite often especially in cases involving nonviolent crimes, white collar crimes etc.
Screw the code.
Screw the money.
Screw "business remedies".
All of these could be said to "excessively hurt Microsoft", and most importantly *do not reduce barriers to entry* (with the possible partial exception of the code).
What competitors *really* need is Microsoft forced to open their file formats and network protocols, so that they can fully interoperate.
Microsoft got where they were by bundling products together and keeping them from interoperating with competitors' products. Fining Microsoft and then letting them continue doing what they were doing may help out the EU, but doesn't do a whole lot to solve the problem.
There are *very* few arguments Microsoft can make against opening file formats and network protocols. There is minimal IP value in each -- it doesn't take a smegging horde of PhDs years of research to create the Word file format. It does nothing but help the consumer, and helps mean that Microsoft always needs to compete.
"I agree. When you're thrown in jail for being convicted of a crime, they don't let you go just because you're put in for an appeal."
Well, they don't throw you in jail until there is a final rouling - i.e. no more appeals. It is possible that you get arrested as a suspect to prevent escape and destruction of evidence but that is in no way related to a court decision that is being appealed.
Real life is overrated.
So, I'm not surprised that patents, consumer rights as related to music, and now this Microsoft thing, are going in the favorable direction of Big Business, rather than the consumer.
"Who are in control, they are not in control of anything - they don't even control themselves!" - Glen Beck
They've realized the product cycles of the software world are smaller than the amount of time it takes to run a court case. This basically means you can violate whatever laws you like, and no one will do anything, because they can't stop you until winning a court case; but by the time they manage to run the court case to completion, the company you were violating said law against is bankrupt, the product you were doing it with has been replaced, the violation is no longer relevant to what you're doing currently, and no one seems to care so much about punishment because what's happened is in the past...
Irritable, left-wing and possibly humorous bumper stickers and t-shirts
She's not out, she wasn't sentenced yet. When she does, she'll have to wait in jail pending an appeal.
She was convicted, under your logic sentencing doesn't matter, she should be in jail. You're arguing a negative.
Plainly put we give people the benefit of the doubt regardles of personal bias against MS which can only be described as rabid.
without the EU entirely understanding what it means, the court has asked for "software codes" to be released. what i _intended_ them to ask for - specifically - was for all of microsoft's internal RFCs to be made public, plus all of their IDL files, and any other internal documentation (such as it is in some cases!!) relating to "interfaces".
i cannot _quite_ understand how microsoft's lawyer believes, unless they are admitting that by releasing details of "interfaces" that somehow extra viruses will be written to target them, that "damage will be done to other software development companies".
*sigh...*
Wonder if this was pre-negotiated as part of the public making up that Bush and the Europeans are orchestrating?
The timing is awfully coincidental..
I am not at all surprised MS is making progress on this appeal. The ruling was really a piss poor way for the EU to flex its collective muscle against a US corporate giant. Not that MS doesn't deserve to be investigated for anit-competitive business practices. In particular the recent (or not so recent for some) revelations that MS has been funding nearly all of the so called independant studies showning MS products as better, faster, safer and even cheaper than open source. The problem here is much like the problem with the Kyoto protocal. It's the right idea but so poorly drafted that it renders it completely meaningless. It is about time someone put MS in its place, but if you are going to use bull**** allegations to do it then you are going to fail in the end.
"Take that Lisa's beliefs!" - Homer Simpson
What the Commission has offered is to suspend the sanctions only for a few months until the Court rules on whether they are acceptable as "interim measures".
The European Court of Justice is expected to take several years to decide on the Microsoft appeal as a whole.
But the ECJ ruling on appropriate "interim measures" is expected much sooner, literally within months.
Or in cases in which the defendant has a lot of money...
Looks like Myron is also a cybersquatter too!
He owned jamore.com wich was a Christian Dior perfume.
Big brass balls EU has, they say. Not like that eunuch DoJ, they say. But people forget Microsoft has enough legal and cash to turn those brass balls to those squeeze balls.
Now, let see if those Japanese actually have metal balls.
During those 5 years they will incrase their market share to far off-set the fine ( remember the fine will be in 2004 dollars, not 2009 dollars )..
Its just a cost of doing business ( and advancing their stranglehold of the world market ) to them.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
"Once Microsoft releases code under this decision, those intellectual property rights are lost forever, even if the court grants our appeal," the company added.
Just because everyone can see the code or format, does it mean the intellectual property is lost? Isn't that why there is a copyright law?... to protect intellectual properties, whether they are secret or open?
If I release a code under GPL, I would still retain the intellectual property and owndership of the code even though I grant a license for anybody to use/copy/modify the code.
Man I dont the BBC could have chosen a more smug / nazi- dictator style picture If they tried; Big-Up Beeb !
Electronic Music Made Using Linux http://soundcloud.com/polyp
US: 0 EU: 0 MS: 2 Sunny Dubey
It appears they havent seen this
As for unbundling windows media player, how do ppl without internet get a media player? Aside from media player classic, windows media player is the best one out there
Many government detractors think it's bad for the federal government to meddle in business, tamper with the marketplace, and otherwise get in the way of Business doing what it does, best.
They're right, it's bad.
But there's something worse - when the opposite happens, when business meddles in the business of government, which despite all detractors, Government does governing better than business does.
The living have better things to do than to continue hating the dead.
And this makes it OK, why?
And, contrary to what you may know or think you know, these are not only 2 different countries, but 2 different
continents.
I was lumping "convicted" and "sentencing" together. This guy was not, and his point is valid. She hasn't been sentenced yet. When she is, whe will go to jail.
Microsoft was convicted, and sentenced. They should have paid up by now.
- It's not the Macs I hate. It's Digg users. -
What's needed is legal recognition of when something has become "standard". It needs to be the kind of law that recognizes 'de-facto' instead of or in addition to 'de-jur'. As long as you're not a legally recognizable "standard" in this fashion, you can keep things as secret as you want. As soon as you pass the test, you MUST open the formats/protocols.
Another type of "standard" that could be forced open: Any communications between the government and its agencies and the general public will be in formats that are free, openly, publicly documented, and free of patent encumbrance. That means, for instance, any data available from a government-operated system (including, but not limited to websites) without some form of specific access control such as login. It excludes things like contractor communications.
It's pretty clear that MS Office format, SMB, and a few others would pass the litmus test for "standard" by these definitions. So would pdf and ps, for that matter. Word Perfect might, too. (common in legal usage)
The living have better things to do than to continue hating the dead.
intellectual property alone grants them the right to keep these closed.
I don't know what the root justification is for copyrights and patents in Europe, but in many countries, copyrights and patents exist to promote the progress of technology. Wouldn't such a strong barrier to entry run against this justification?
Any communications between the government and its agencies and the general public will be in formats that are free, openly, publicly documented, and free of patent encumbrance. That means, for instance, any data available from a government-operated system (including, but not limited to websites) without some form of specific access control such as login.
To work around this, the suppliers could simply require all users of a web site to log in by entering their national or provincial ID number. Then the sites wouldn't be considered available to "the general public" (which includes foreigners) but rather to "adult citizens".
I may not be the biggest fan of Microsoft, but it does seem unfair to force a company to remove software from it's offerings. It's not their fault that people don't look for a better media player, there are plenty out there. True that by bundling Windows Media player in Windows does cause a monopoly to form, but that doesn't mean some commission can up and say that they don't like that and Microsoft has to take it out and publish one without it. Shame on you EC!
EU law explicitly allows you to reverse engineer a file or message format (i.e., by reverse engineering code) for any product that you own in order to interface with it. This is a rather nice quirk which acknowledges that people have a right to develop interoperable hetrogenous systems.
See my journal, I write things there
If that was the case, by the same logic anyone accused of murder would be allowed to freely roam the streets right up until he had exhausted his last appeal.
However, as far as I'm aware it doesn't work like that, and you can be locked up (with the option of bail, sure) when the charge is brought against you and not even once the first court case is complete.
The goverment does have a duty to (and tries to) protect it's citizens even from suspected "criminals", and maybe those standards should be applied to companies too.
... what will happen if an OS vendor who has less market dominance than RedHat Linux sues RedHat over bundling DBs, Browsers, Media Players and all other stuff with it... or when Linux is becoming a "monopoly" some day...
I'm really not a fan of Bill Gates, but I'm glad Microsoft appealed. The issue was over Media Player being bundled, as opposed to Quicktime or Realplayer. Now, Apple have their good points - however, their hardware monopoly and refusal to bundle competitors products with OS releases should have led to a dismissal right away. Additionally, the Windows install of Quicktime rapes the registry and file settings.
Realplayer is a commercial product, supported by either a license fee or spyware - again, this should have been dismissed.
Jeez, if I were Microsoft I'd really be careful about how I play things right now. They're not fighting a case against Sun or IBM or something here, or against the government of their home country even, they're fighting a foreign government who really don't like them very much at the moment. They need to be careful about their actions throughout this appeal, because if it looks like they are trying to get out of it by using delaying tactics until Longhorn is released or something like that then they could definitely get bitten on the arse.
I mean think about it for a minute, what government is going to tolerate Microsoft taking the piss out of them and trying to worm out of punishment in this way? Okay, the US government (no flamebait intended), but at least you can see their point of view... MS is a large, profitable US company, and hurting MS could also hurt the power of the US. However, this time we're talking about the EU, and although MS may employ many people in Europe or whatever, they are essentially a foreign company, and I do not think the EC really gives as much of a shit if it hurts MS or not.
Anyway, I am no expert on international politics or legal proceedings or anything, but I am just imagining myself as a politician who is looking at Microsoft defying the legal judgement of my government and having a big old hearty laugh about it. I'd be pretty pissed off, and I'd be wanting to do something about it.
It has time and time again been seen that government antitrust just doesn't do the trick. It is blind to the serious threats to consumers and when it finally acts it is in a dubious and impotent manner.
And it is obviously irrelevant which side of the atlantic it happens on.
Abolish antitrust and make the markets freer. Let the small entrepreneurs snak the heels of the Microsoft gigant.
http://liberterran.org
swpat game is not yet over nl parl might revoke the minister's vote Even after that there's second reading, but it's better to stop at this stage. (Doing the same as the dutch in your country might help ;)
The picture of Mr. Gates in the article says it all, really...
So there it is. Like the Americans, we oh-so-superior Europeans now know that we too have the best 'justice' that money can buy.
Julia Cameron
Oich ù agus hiùraibh éile
You know I dont really understand the deal with the media player and IE. .02$ worth
On my M$ Box I just dont use IE.
As for the media player. Is M$ going to be forced to drop the price of thier buggy OS when they leave out the media player. It will still be just a free download away so I guess it wont matter.
I think that the media player and IE are the most begnin issues with M$ and thier Monoply protection tactics.
Just my
I use Linux and I am a christian and I love the GNU lifestyle.
This isn't strictly true. The European Commision made a decision to fine Microsoft, but they are not a court -- just a regulatory institution of the European Union. What we're about to see now is the first actual court case. Only after it rules will Microsoft be convicted and sentenced (or aquitted).
Okay, but why is this called an appeal then?
- It's not the Macs I hate. It's Digg users. -
In Windows XP SP2, Windows Media Player 10 will be installed over the old Windows Media Player 9, and will no longer be removable.
Now we know why. Microsoft will ask the judge 3 years from now to consider whether Windows Media Player has become an "integral componet" of Windows and whether the judgement is no longer relevant.
Is there any opportunity for public feedback? I'd at least like to contact the EU Antitrust Commission.
This document at one time contained the proof of my assertion--but the Internet Explorer find command isn't finding it. I make no assumptions as to why that is.
Like i sed Punters............
No no no no NO !!!!! What kind of logic is that? They're setting the example that Microsoft can get away with anything by introducing legal fights and making motion after motion to keep the thing in the courts forever. I'd bet Microsoft can afford to put the EC out of commission and/or bankrupt them before the EC will win any case, and when the EC will find that out, they'll let Microsoft have its way just to end the battle.
No, the proper procedure in this case should be to keep the sanctions in effect, plus have Microsoft pay a litigation deposit of, say, ten to twenty times the fee, which will be refunded if and only if Microsoft wins the case, but not right away. The original sanctions would be refunded immediately, but the litigation deposit would be refunded, say, fifty years later. Microsoft could then choose to drop the litigation and not pay the deposit, or pay the deposit and be out that many more millions until fifty years after the case ends.
Plus, the EC should only allow Microsoft to appeal the case if Microsoft pays all of the EC's legal expenses, with a cap of, say, five billion Euros, not including foreign currency exchange costs from U.S. dollars, which would simply be non-refundable. Only then will be know if Microsoft management actually believes they are in the right or wrong, based on whether they decide to continue fighting this.
Even a couple of months is enough to get Microsoft Media Player entrenched on a few million machines. Various applications will then assume Media Player is available and crash if it isn't. And then it doesn't matter if Microsoft is forced to offer a second Media Player-free version because it essentially "doesn't work" and no one can really use it.
-
- - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.
That could see the penalties suspended for as long as three years.
EU courts found that Microsoft's prior behaviour is bad for their citizens, and yet they are going to allow this behaviour to continue for 3 more years? I understand suspending the fine, but since when suspected murderers are allowed to go and murder more people while their case is decided?
Thank Fritz Bolkestein and his Bilderberg pals.
Just like Communism fails due to the selfishness of people, Capitalism fails when corporations grow big enough to be able to monopolize things.
You can't change the fundamental nature of ALL people. Likewise, you can't change the fundamental nature of ALL people forming those corporations! Both systems fail. They have flaws.
Where is the justice going?
Cigaretteers are still paying politicians to killing citizens and bankrupt social systems, pot is still being sold by non-tax paying citizens, immigration is still taxing the locals and reducing their benefits while the richest get their tax benefits, monopolists still corrupt the courts and business intelligent deals get sodomized with the best briberies...
So when you hear socialists talk about business it makes you wanna laugh! When you hear political moron laws like 35 hours in france you wonder where they pick these professional mentally handicapped corruption-savvy subhumans!
It could be worse couldn't it?
The BBCs coverage of science & technology really sucks. I hate when they write "programme" too, other than referring to the TV/Radio kind. Still, look on the bright side, at least I haven't heard them say "softwares". Yet.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
PS: TIC
I love C++
They are stlling proceedings, not making process.
They are entitled to it, the judcial systems in the different parts of the world simply are not equpped to deliver justice in a timely manner, that is why MS can stall things, but they will lose at the end (because it is as clear as water that they are doing unethicla and illegal things).
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
Aw what a crock! This crazy logic (if you actually take it seriously, which I don't) can be appied to anything you wish to apply it to. If you're worried about GNU being too centralized, but not worried about Micro$oft being so centralized, your reality circuits must surely be damaged.