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Mind Scans to Map Decision Making Mechanics

Posted by michael on from the chocolate-strawberry-vanilla dept.

rrangel writes "Newsweek is running an article on the fMRI, which tracks brain function by measuring blood flow, and using it for watching the mechanics of economics and choice. Best quote on economic choice: '... there is no quantity of juice sufficient to get a male monkey to look away from the hindquarters of a female in estrus.' H. Hefner has known that all along."

10 of 218 comments (clear)

  1. Two things... by ifwm · · Score: 5, Interesting

    First, why do researchers assume that blood flow and glucose use equals proof of thought patterns? Now, there may be a correlation, but as my research methods professor loved to say "correlation does not equal causation"

    Second, juice may not get him. but cocaine will. I saw a study that showed a monkey will give up everything, including food and sex, for cocaine.

    1. Re:Two things... by glueball · · Score: 5, Interesting

      The BOLD theory, that's why. Blood Oxygenation Level Detection. You are not measuring glucose directly, you are measuring a spin-able for of hemoglobin that is in the state of giving up oxygen. Oxygen is thought to be used in glucose metabolism. Metabolism is thought to be a sign of life. FMRI measures the amount of hemoglobin. The interesting data comes from measuring *changes* in the amount of hemoglobin utilization.

      One can see motor movements in the brain. I tell you to move your finger (or think about moving your finger ) and I can see in the brain the area that: hears me say "move your finger" then the language area that interprets "move your finger" and the pre-motor area firing, then the motor area firing.

      There are a million tests that can be given in the MR scanner. Some of them can be really funny.

      Examples on request.

    2. Re:Two things... by glueball · · Score: 5, Interesting

      First I met someone at a FMRI scanner. It turns out that she became my wife.

      Second test: Stroop. Never seen so many smart people get so frustrated. A word is presented: "RED" It is written in green ink. What color is the ink? Then, just as you get the hang of it, what is the word?

      Third: Nicotine addictions. Drop a bolus of nicotine into a willing research subject. I've heard "That's better than sex" to "Ohhhhhhh" to "I think I wet myself"

      More later.

  2. Rationality and expected value by PornMaster · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I'm not sure that monkeys know the difference, but when I consider chance in a wagering-like fashion, I tend to consider whether or not something will really change my life for more than just the short-term.

    Dropping $20 on an array of Mega Millions tickets is mathematically irrational, but with or without that $20, my life for the next two weeks will be about the same. If I were to win, however, even the second-best prize, it would enable me to purchase a nice house.

    When it's a matter of playing a game where the expected value of my dollar is $0.95, but I'm more likely to win $2 or $3, why bother? But even if the expected value of my dollar is $0.75 or less with a prize of many million and many over $100k, despite the miniscule chances of winning, it would change my life.

    Of course, if I had an expected value of $1.05 for my dollar, I'm smart enough to play consistently even if my dollar only wins a little at a time.

    -PM

    --
    500GB of disk, 5TB of transfer, $5.95/mo
    1. Re:Rationality and expected value by makomk · · Score: 3, Interesting
      In game theory, there's one model that states that people choose based on the expected value to them of the outcome. Losing $1 doesn't have much effect on you, but the value to you of winning $1million is huge, so it makes semse to gamble.

      This isn't strictly relevant, but has anyone figured out why most people get the probablities wrong in Don't Get The Goat (no relation to goatse). Even intelligent people often get it wrong. I remember spending ages trying to explain it to an intelligent person with good maths skills - and they still didn't understand.

  3. 'there is no quantity of juice sufficient' by oliverthered · · Score: 4, Interesting

    What even if the monkey hasn't had anything to drink for the past week (well maybe day or two, I don't tnik it could do anything after a week).

    --
    thank God the internet isn't a human right.
  4. Consciousness Theory by fishing · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Anyone interested in theories of consciousness and how they might relate to artificial neural networks, you may want to check out "Radiant Cool" by Dan Lloyd.
    In this book he uses multi-dimensional scaling analysis of fMRI scans to predict past and future states of the same brain, as well as doing the same thing with artificial networks.
    It then uses the evidence from this research to propose what (to me, at least) is the first really solid explanation for what consciousness may actually "be".
    The book is written in 2 parts... the first one is a detective novel where the main character is a Phenomenologist and in the process of solving a murder finds a theory of consciousness. The 2nd part of the book is a factual appendix describing the work.
    Awesome stuff, and I highly recommend it to anyone interested in neural nets and AI.

  5. love-hate relationship of Science and Media by abde · · Score: 5, Interesting

    articles like this are especially frustrating to MRI physics geeks like me, because there's a delicate balance bwteen wanting the media to help promote science, and watching helplessly as they mangle it into pure science fiction. The BOLD effect by which fMRI observes brain activity is orders of magnitude removed from the sensitivity of indivdual neuron measurements, and as other commentators have pointed out there's a real limit on what you can expect to understand about human thought processes using that tool.

    I've actually started a blog devoted to megnetoic resonance imaging (http://refscan.blogspot.com/ and would like to invite anyone else interested in MRI to visit and comment. Our patron Saint is Magneto :)

    --
    Don't blame me - I voted for Howard Dean. http://dean2004.blogspot.com
  6. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  7. Jonathan Edwards by technoCon · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Though most folks recall Jonathan Edwards once preaching of spiders dangling over the maw of hell, his most significant writing was philosophical particularly on the topic of Free Will.

    Jonathan Edwards said that Free Will consists of the mind choosing that which it finds most pleasing or agreeable based on what it knows at that moment. I think considerations like this drove Soren Kierkegaard mad choosing to make himself miserable because it pleased him to exercize his will so.

    It would be interesting to know what this continent's most thoughtful Calvinist would think about these experiments. I think he'd be pleased, but he might differ on the interpretations of the findings.