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Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Express, VS 2005 Beta

Posted by simoniker on from the express-to-impress dept.

An anonymous reader writes "At the TechEd Europe keynote today, Microsoft launched Visual Studio 2005 Beta 1. With it, they also released a set of five 'Express Editions' of Visual Studio. These currently free applications offer a student and hobbyist-oriented version of Visual Studio, and are available in C#, C++, VB, Web Developer, and SQL flavors. Each download weighs in at right around 50MB and features tools, documentation, and starter kits. There's been multiple posts and more information on this announcement over at MSDN Blogs, too." Update: 06/29 13:57 GMT by S : A clarification from the Express FAQ: Although the Beta Express products are currently free to download: "We have not announced pricing and licensing and will not do so until next calendar year."

6 of 541 comments (clear)

  1. Definitely worried about free development tools by incuso · · Score: -1, Flamebait

    or, rather, about *x free development tools :)

  2. Re:Sweet! by melgeroth · · Score: 1, Flamebait

    Not really. From what i've seen (C++ only really), they have the word optimization routines of any compiler. I agree though that VB is the best RAD language i've seen (though I hear good things about delphi as well).

  3. Re:Honest Reply about VB by jankyPhil · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    Wow... you said quite a bit without actually saying anything. Assuming that the person that weilds the tool knows and uses the tool well, what's wrong with VB (especially VB.NET)?

    Or is this just more elite-programmer bullshit?

  4. Re:RAD? by AstroDrabb · · Score: 0, Flamebait
    VB is Visual BASIC. One of the first languages you learn in school (you should be progressing in your career). I tell all VB "coders" that it is time to take off the training wheels and learn a real language. Have you tried Java or C#? Much better then VB. VB and VB script really suck as a language. The few times I used it I felt like a toddler (I personally want to be challanged at work). VB is fine if you are doing standard cookie-cutter apps. Connect to a DB, display some fields, update some fields, etc. But the language just sucks for anything else. Is has zero built in support for real data structures. It has nothing like the standard template library, though most VB apps are never complex enough (algorithmically) to need something like that.
    It's a great language that can be used to solve 99% of the programing tasks on a Windows platform.
    Maybe 99% of the tasks you do. As I said, I would never touch VB again unless for some legacy support. Give me a language I can get my teeth into.
    I've written multiple custom data analysis apps for fortune 500 CPG companies using VB.
    I have worked for 3 fortune 500 companies and have been at the current one for 4 years. These are nothing more then standard cookie-cutter applications. Connect to a DB with ADO, grab some data, do some calculations, spit out results. VB does make that easy, but so do many other languages such as Java, C++ and C#.
    It would have taken me a lot longer to accomplish the same task using C++ or any other widely used language.
    It may take YOU longer to do it in C++, but not an experienced C++ programmer. I knock VB because using it made me feel cheap. As if I was not a "real" programmer. I want a _challange_. I will never touch VB again (except for legacy crap) and I curse MS for making it : ). Sit down for a week or two and teach yourself how to do the same things in Java, C++ or C#. I bet you will feel the same way.
    --
    If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land,
    it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy. -James Madison
  5. Re:RAD? by Slime-dogg · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    I wouldn't call declaring "ByVal" in every external function call "killing C#." You can work with Office in C# just as well, if not better, than with VB.NET. The fact that C# is a much smoother language to write in, compared to the "BEGIN - END" constructs and the rest of the whole VB/BASIC bullcrap.

    The biggest problem that VB.NET has, that thankfully C# does not, is that all of those VB "developers" are still there. They still know next to nothing about good programming concepts, and could care less about efficiency. Woohoo... let's pass objects all of the place! Woohoo... let's make every database interaction in it's own web service... each service containing a single function! Woohoo... let's use ActiveX in .NET like there's no tomorrow, because I like writing insecure code, and I have no desire to fully learn the new platform.

    VB.NET? A shotgun is probably the best solution for that language.

    --
    You need to restart your computer. Hold down the Power button for several seconds or press the Restart button.
  6. Re:Sweet! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Flamebait

    "(no need to shout!) Why not? There are Windows CE development environments that run on Windows 2000."

    Er, yeah. And you can develop Windows CE with VS and VS.NET too. If thats what you mean by "cross platform" then VS.NET has it all. Windows/Windows CE, MIPS, ARM, x86, SH3, SH4 with the appropriate compilers. You can also develop for the XBOX, PS2, and probably other platforms I don't know about too.

    "No: I mean a full featured multi-processing language and IDE combination that allows launching of several apps and processes at once, with the ability to follow individual processes, interrupt and resume them."

    VS is not a language. VS is a development environment. We are all talking about VS here, not Visual Basic or whatever you have stuck in your mind. VS has support for all of these if the language supports it.

    "Its not there. If you have ever tried to deal with run-time bugs in VB6, you are regularly presented with a message that if you proceed with further edits, you will terminate the program."

    I know virtually nothing about VB6, but I would imagine it supports edit and continue and attaching a debugger, especially since VB has its roots as a non-compiled language. Obviously some changes will nescessitate a restart of the program - thats just the way programs work. I would assume that your smalltalk ide couldn't handle every case of edit-and-continue.

    "Not clueless, as in Smalltalk (which was the example I presented), the language and development system are one. The separation of language and IDE is arbitrary, and unecessary, as any Smalltalker or LISPer will tell you. Its so primitive."

    Ah, language elitism. There is a reason that those languages are rarely used outside of academia. An IDE is a seperate concept than the language, except in wierd cases such as smalltalk (which is virtually useless in developing programs that people will actually use on Windows PC's). To not seperate the two means that you need to run the program inside the dev environment, which is great if you are a grad student - worthless if you are an end user.

    You guys need to give up looking down your noses at anyone who uses anything but (LISP/Smalltalk/insert other escoteric language here.) There is a reason all those languages have not been popular. They really don't address real world development issues. People use Microsoft development environments for a reason. It is because the complete package is there: an excellent dev environment, excellent help and online support, an installation system, top notch compilers and wide industry use.