China Deploys IPv9 Network

jeber writes "At the New Generation Internet Ten-Digit Network Industrialization & Development Seminar held on June 25th at Zhejiang University, it was announced that China's Internet technology, IPv9, had been formally adapted and popularized into the civil and commercial sectors. Based on a ten-digit computing method, IPv9 has its own address protocol, nameplate protocol, transitional protocol, and digital domain name regulations and standards as stated by Mr. Xie Jianping, founder of the IPv9 protocol and leader of the Ten-Digit Network Technology Standard Team. Along with being compatible with IPv4 and IPv6, IPv9 can also realize logistic separations between them and safely control them. On small-scale trials in Shanghai's Changing and Jinshan Districts, IPv9 technology has proven stable and safe."

Comments

Oh yeah?

[BabyDave]

Well I'm using IPvInfinityPlusOne, so :-P to you!

Re:Oh yeah?

[Anonymous Coward]

Why not use the Open Source version:

IPvFreely

key word "control"

[nurb432]

Sounds like that would be the most important piece to the Chinese..

Re:key word "control"

[MarkPNeyer]

This isn't the only thing for which the chinese are trying to develop their own stadards; they hate the idea of paying royalties for formats that are accepted around the world, they just develop their own standards. I'm sure all of this isn't going to help china's transition into the being a free-market society integrated with the rest of the world.

Re:key word "control"

[Czernobog]

A standard is what the majority of people use. Not what they want to use. Or what they should be using. Or what some foreign institution has taken it up to themselves to declare. Or whatever power abusing government or mega-corporation enforces.
As such China's protocols are the standards, as far as they are concerned.

Re:key word "control"

[ghjm]

It's very interesting, actually. From a US perspective we see China as a supplicant, who has to do things our way to be allowed to participate in the "developed" economic world that we created, and therefore own and control. This means that we get to charge an admission fee (e.g. license our "intellectual property" to them), and they are morally in the wrong if they don't pay it.

China sees us as warlords holding temporary advantage due to the outcome of WWII. Chinese warlords have always extorted horrific tribute/taxation from their subjects, but wrapped it in a framework of celestial-academic (or, more recently, communist-rhetorical) self-justification. This is what they think we're doing to them when we say "you have to pay us billions of dollars because (mumble software patent mumble genome license mumble royalty blah blah)".

China has made numerous moves lately that indicate they no longer consider us to be an unstoppable force. They haven't done anything drastically provocative, but they will. The Taiwan question is intolerable for the Chinese government. Sooner or later, if China stays on its current path, they will arrive at the point where they think they can get away with an invasion. And all I can say is, I sure as hell hope there's a moderate in the White House on that particular day.

-Graham

Re:key word "control"

[Jahf]

This is at least the 2nd time that this argument has been used ...

Please explain to me what body you have to license IPv* from?

Tell me again why I would need a commercial product to support IPv* when it has been in some form in free OEs for -years-?

Explain how IPv* has anything to do with "formats" when those "formats" (I'm assuming you're thinking things like video codecs, etc) are not part of the network layer?

China's IPv9 can only exist for one of 2 reasons:

1) They want more control over their own networks, perhaps by having China on IPv9 they have ways of better filtering IPv4/6 (I don't know) or maybe they suffer from the most common of all new network protocol designer's problems ... "we like ours best" syndrom.

2) Perhaps IPv9 has definite technical advantages over IPv4/6 that will become more obvious as adoption goes on. ... Anyway, beyond replying to your thread a bit ...

It doesn't really matter ... if IPv9 doesn't have major enhancements but is truly compatible with IPv6 then let the Chinese have the headache of maintaining the translations. If IPv9 -does- have major enhancements that the rest of the world desires, maybe you'll see it being adopted and IPv6 skipped in many locales.

It is supply and demand ... yes, 1+ Billion Chinese has a lot of sway over standards adoption, but if the standards suck the 5+ Billion of the rest of us will ignore it. If it doesn't suck and is "Right" then good for them for kickstarting adoption.

Re:key word "control"

[astar]

I recently received a chatty email from a fellow who just spent some time in China. His wife was working on a Rotary project there and then they played tourist.

Several things stood out to me. This is a dynamic society, with construction everywhere. Yet they also spend money making their freeways signs look good, with a little extra neon. At night, the big cities are a neon wonderland. The freeways themselves have lighted lane markers and such. Lots of use of light.

And to the point on this topic, everyone he talked to seem to consider Taiwan a province of China, even the Taiwanise tourists, of which there are many. Now what I actually think is that neither government tolerate anything but the party line, and so people do not speak candidly on this issue. The real deal is that China considers Chinese populated territory to be properly under common rule. And most of the Taiwanese share that view. The Taiwanese government of course thinks it should be ruling China.

My idea is that everyone should agree that Taiwan is part of China and set a date, say in the next century, to realize it.

Re:key word "control"

[bluethundr]

A standard is what the majority of people use. Not what they want to use. Or what they should be using. Or what some foreign institution has taken it up to themselves to declare. Or whatever power abusing government or mega-corporation enforces. As such China's protocols are the standards, as far as they are concerned.

I remember taking a Chinese history course back in college. It was a requirement, and Eastern Studies had never really gripped my interests. But as we started it I became fascinated with the oceanic depth of their culture and history. I'm sorry I never persued it.

I remember that the *"People of Han" (as they called themselves) who founded the original Chin Dynasty considered themselves the center of the universe. So naturally, they too considered themselves the center of all culture and refinement. I see modern communism as a more contemporary expression of this belief. It seems almost bred into their cultural psychology. A very deep meme that is very difficult to erase.

So, while control may or may not have anything to do with the nature of IPv9, my interpretation of the matter (after taking that class) is that they are a very prideful people. It must irk them on some level that all of the important technologies (cars, computers, networking, flying, you name it) come from the west. Maybe this is their way of reasserting themselves as a force to be reckoned with. Which they are.


*Interestingly enough, they were so sure of their superiority that when they had their first runins with westerners they would make them cow-tow to the emperor. Which REALLY pissed off the European Nobles when they came to visit because cow-towing is literally debasing oneself in front of imperial greatness. Getting down on both knees and bowing repeatedly. The Chinese of that day (I forget what Dynasty it was) considered ALL westerners to be barbarians! I don't necessarily think they were wrong about that, after what I've learned about history.

The name "Han" actually meant in their language "The People" just as it does in almost all languages. It's the same in Navajo (Dine) and Cherokee (Tsalagee). Interestingly enough, when the Cherokee first encountered westerners THEY thought they were the most civilized people. They thought the Europeans were babrarous. Mainly because the English and other European languages have the 'b' and 'r' sound which sounded awful to them. It may seem odd that the Cherokees would have no 'r' sound. The reason for that is that the language of the main body of Cherokee speakers don't have those sounds and call themselves Tsalagee. Europeans totally misheard that sound and started calling them Cherokees.

Re:key word "control"

[mickwd]

"I remember that the *"People of Han" (as they called themselves) who founded the original Chin Dynasty considered themselves the center of the universe. So naturally, they too considered themselves the center of all culture and refinement. I see modern communism as a more contemporary expression of this belief. It seems almost bred into their cultural psychology. A very deep meme that is very difficult to erase."

So.....nothing like the modern-day USA then ?

Re:key word "control"

[bluethundr]

"I remember that the *"People of Han" (as they called themselves) who founded the original Chin Dynasty considered themselves the center of the universe. So naturally, they too considered themselves the center of all culture and refinement. I see modern communism as a more contemporary expression of this belief. It seems almost bred into their cultural psychology. A very deep meme that is very difficult to erase." So.....nothing like the modern-day USA then ?

No, you're absolutely right. American's do think that they're the center of the universe. I know because I am one. I'm a Jerseyite, I live very near Princeton which had beautiful minds and where Einstein's Unified Field Theory was first concocted. Plains, trains, automobiles, computers, networks all invented her in the good ol' rockin' US of friggin' A!

We are jingoisitic and think we are the center of the universe. But compare our piddling few hundred odd years to China's 7000 years or more!

But if you trace American culture, we basically go back to ye olde England to about the time of Cromwell or slightly before (history is not my forte). Until the late 1800s, most of American Society (around 70% I believe) was English/Irish in descent. After the turn of that century American Society was essentially re-made with an influx of new immigrants from the rest of Europe, including Germany, Poland, and Italy (for example). It was a time when our culture was "unravelling" (according to Strauss and Howe) in a period that was not unlike the what the past 20 years of American Society has been like. Scarily, eerily similar. No, no OJ's getting chased by police in White Ford Broncos down the 405, no Monica Lewinsky, no Punk Rock. But just like today, America was being thought anew to include all of the new cultures that were calling america home. It was also being shaken to it's foundations by spasmodic bursts of new technological developments like Movies, Telephones, the Automobile, and Flight. It was also a time when we first heard the beginnings of a dirty and dissident form of music known as...brace yourself...JAZZ!!!!!! *GASP*. I know hard to imagine, but Jazz was really regarded just that way by prominent members of our society instead of the rich subtle tapestry of powerful creative expression that it is.

So, what's been happening for the past 20 years? Well, computers have been around for a long while, but I really don't think the couch potatoes started buying them until they became of the internet at about the same time. We had dirty dissident punk and instrial, and indie rock and underground cinema. And the immigration is ENORMOUS and will definitely chage the way America thinks of itself. Latin American immigration is simply jaw-dropping. In the town I used to live in, almost everyone there is mono-lingual. And it ain't english! Whether your in a "latin neighborhood" or no, Spanish is on all the ATMs and an option for nearly all phone support calls. I think Spanish should be a high school requirement! Asian immigration is completely boundless as well. Up in Fort Lee NJ (right by the GW bridge) almost all of the street signs and business are in both Korean and English...or in just Korean. Including some street signs!

So a *DEFINITE* on my to-do list is to bone up on Spanish and to give Korean a serious go. While wer'e at it, why stop there? I'd also like to get to speaking

Welcome China

[lpret]

We welcome our new Chinese overlords. The beer is in the fridge.

Read this: So far, China is the only country in the world that has consolidated domain names, IP addresses and MAC addresses into ten-digit text files. China and the United States are currently the only two countries that possess root domain name analysis servers, IP address servers, independent domain names, IP addresses and MAC address sources.

Standards?

[kai5263499]

Does anyone have a link to an RFC detailing the IPv9 standard? Or did China just decide that they needed that much more addressing space and create thatir own standard?

RFC

[Simon (S2)]

here

Re:RFC

[Zarhan]

This is the old April fools joke, yes, but I have to ask if this is some sort of new thing. Doing a Google search for IPv9 returns bunch of IETF mailing list postings talking about that joke, and then loads of chinese pages. Is the article a new and improved version of the joke or something that really exists?

Re:RFC

[bitflip]

My tongue in cheek theory: The Chinese didn't know it was a joke, and rushed to implement it.

IPv9

[Amiga Lover]

IPV9, for when being able to individually address every single particle in the entire universe just isn't enough.

Re:IPv9

[Anonymous Coward]

IPV9, for when being able to individually address every single particle in the entire universe just isn't enough.

At some point in the future we might need to address the particles that are currently swapped out.

IPV4-IPV6-IPV9-???

[Anonymous Coward]

As everyone knows, a standard IPV4 engine has enough power for a small sedan. IPV6 adds cylinders to add extra power for sportier performance. And now, IPV9 improves incrementally on IPV8 by adding an extra cylinder hanging off the side.

Of course, I'll beat them all when I announce my patented IPV12 (tm).

Welcome to last week

[iamdrscience]

My computer is setup to use both IPv4 and IPv6, that makes IPv10! One bigger than IPv9! Eat that, China!

A good thing for Spam

[BWindle]

This is a good thing for spam. Just wait until all of China is using IPv9, then figure out a way to drop any packets that have passed thru IPv9 routers; suddenly no more Chinese packets, and no more spam.

April fools joke?

[bollow (a) NoLockIn]

The article is full of nonsense words, so apart for the July date I'd suspect an april fool's joke.

Googling for IP V9 reveals an april fool's joke from 1994:

RFC 1606
RFC 1607

Re:April fools joke?

[OverlordQ]

Actually IPv9 is TUBA. Which is described in RFC1347.

Re:April fools joke?

[Fnkmaster]

I thought the same when I first read the summary, it's filled with meaningless goop-words. But "China IPV9" does return other hits in Google that lead me to believe this is at least semi-legitimate. See this company, or this powerpoint presentation. Apparently "IPv9", in addition to being used in those April 1st RFCs actually refers to something called TUBA (TCP and UDP with Bigger Addresses), an alternative "big number" addressing protocol to IPv6 that is described in RFC 1347 (see this post for example).

The original RFC is here.

Article shows lack of education of the globe.

[node 3]

It's plain to see that the article submitter, who is undoubtedly an American, didn't take into account that China is on the other side of the planet and that the "9" in the article, when viewed right-side up is actually a "6", and that the correct story is that China has switched over to IPv6.

I chalk this up as a clear and abject failure of our education system.

Re:Article shows lack of education of the globe.

[Epistax]

It's plain to see that the article submitter, who is undoubtedly an American, didn't take into account that China is on the other side of the planet and that the "9" in the article, when viewed right-side up is actually a "6", and that the correct story is that China has switched over to IPv6.

wait.. then it wouldn't be IPv6 for them either, it'd be 9^dI.

we can never have enough

[t_allardyce]

It might seem like overkill but the old adage "if you build it they will come" applies here. The more your addressing system can support, the more people will start using it for more and more pointless things - everything will have its own ip, rfid manufactureres will give their tags ip's because they can, cars will get their own all phones will, packages will - just so you can type the ip to track it (and once its delivered the ip will point to that card-board box forever) we're already talking about toasters with addresses its just going to get more and more complicated and the reasons for giving addresses will be more and more pointless (a toaster could easily survive on a subnet) the best solution is a system that can work with addresses of any length (bangs head on table) but people will still demand that their grains of sand have a 50 byte address, just be grateful for exponentials!

Re:Obligatory Great Firewall of China reference

[BWS]

You're right, but there is confusion between "Hong Kong" and "Hong Kong the Island" and that's where you're getting stuck. "Hong Kong the Island" was permantly given to the British and the origional treaty never had any stipulations about return to China. But what you don't mention and is the important thing is "Kwoloon". Kwoloon is a penisula (sp?) which is part of China given to the British after the Boxer Rebellion in 1898 for 99 years.

When people refer to "Hong Kong" now they refer to "Hong Kong Island", "Kwoloon", and a bunch of much smaller island. The vast majority of the population live in "Hong Kong Island" and "Kwoloon", with less then 5% living in the smaller island.

By treaty stipulations, again which China still claims were forced upon them, Kwoloon was to be returned to China in 1997. If the British just return "Kwoloon" as by treaty and kept "Hong Kong Island", it would be totaly redilicious. It would be like diving London into two pieces and saying this half now belong to France and you need a visa to cross between them.

IPv9 and Linux

[veg]

Why has it taken the world so long to take IPv9 seriously ?
It's the only protocol that has in-built, native support for RFC2549 and, more importantly RFC527.

Linus Torvalds has already announced that 2.7 will have kernel-level support for RFC2549, but maybe now the kernel developers will go the whole hog and adopt IPv9 ?

Article text

[Anonymous Coward]

China's New Generation Of Ipv9 Network Technology Ready
July 2, 2004

At the New Generation Internet Ten-Digit Network Industrialization & Development Seminar held on June 25th at Zhejiang University, it was announced that China's Internet technology, IPv9, had been formally adapted and popularized into the civil and commercial sectors.

After ten years of research and development, IPv9 will be used on projects with the National Safety Defense System, National Digital TV Network, IPv9 network experimental programs and many other organizations.

Based on a ten-digit computing method, IPv9 has its own address protocol, nameplate protocol, transitional protocol, and digital domain name regulations and standards as stated by Mr. Xie Jianping, founder of the IPv9 protocol and leader of the Ten-Digit Network Technology Standard Team. Along with being compatible with IPv4 and IPv6, IPv9 can also realize logistic separations between them and safely control them. On small-scale trials in Shanghai's Changing and Jinshan Districts, IPv9 technology has proven stable and safe.

IPv9 consists of three sets of root domain name servers and two sets of hard-connect servers. The two sets of domain name parsing servers each have a parsing capacity of three million users and fifty percent simultaneously. Digital domain name parsing servers, English domain name parsing servers, Chinese domain name parsing servers, IP address primal allotment server, DHCP server, IPv4/IPv9 duel-used 1000M routers, 1000M channel router, IPv4/IPv9 address switching server, crystal circuit transmitter and crystal circuit light routers have been applied to IPv9 protocol demonstrative projects.

So far, China is the only country in the world that has consolidated domain names, IP addresses and MAC addresses into ten-digit text files. China and the United States are currently the only two countries that possess root domain name analysis servers, IP address servers, independent domain names, IP addresses and MAC address sources. Shanghai Jiuyao Digital Network Co., Ltd has been established to popularize the IPv9 technology. The company will work with telecom operators such as China Telecom, China Unicom, China Mobile and China Netcom to better publicize the IPv9 technology.

Like IPv6 isn't good enough

[xiando]

There is a total of 2^128, or 340,282,366,920,938,463,463,374,607,431,768,211,45 6 unique IPv6 adresses.

Isn't this enough?

Re:Like IPv6 isn't good enough

[hugesmile]

The concern isn't the quantity of available unique addresses - the issue is that the address space must rapidly get divided up for assignment.

If the addresses were going to be assigned serially (ok, who wants IP address # 000000001?, ok 0000000002...) then you never run out.

But if you slice the 128 bits in half immediately, as a way to divide them up among companies, and then the companies subnet them, and the 128 bits keep getting whittled down, then you start crowding the address space. Yes, 2^128 is PLENTY, but the problem will be the 2^100- sized gaps between various assigned numbers.

To answer your question, "isn't this enough?", it's plenty for the short term, if managed properly. Hard to say about the long term, and hard to say about the "proper management". YOu have to weigh the costs of having a bigger address space, and ask "is the benefit worth the cost" (The benefits being the ability to poorly manage the number assignments, and the potential longevity of the protocol).

Just my opinion.

China needs to control technology

[Cycnus]

China is currently doing all it can to "re-invent" everything that carries information.
There are reasons for this:
- Chinese are very nationalisitc by definition (in chinese, China (Zhong Guo) mean the "Kindgom of the middle", they really thought -and still do to a certain extent- that China is the center of the world) and they are proud to "re-invent" or "re-conquer" to make it their own.
- they do not want to license foreign Intellectual Property, so they develop their own video format for instance, for both pride and economic reasons as well.
- The Chinese government think it needs to control information.
I believe that the latest is probably behind the move to IPv9.
By encouraging non-standard protocols, they ensure that the equipment has more chance to be manufactured in China, and they have more ways to control the information passing through it.
China recognizes the importance of the Internet and know it is essential to its progress, yet they also realize that it is the most dangerous way to propagate those "subversive" ideas like democracy and freedom of speech. So the best thing to do is probably to "embrace and extend"...
Now, where have I heard that before...?

Re:Obligatory Great Firewall of China Reference

[wan-fu]

Let's remove some of that misinformation, shall we?

First of all, things are not as easy as they seem. Maybe you think it is easy to distribute the wealth in China to all its people, but think about the logistics of it. China has a landmass comparable to the US with over 1.3 billion citizens. Getting the wealth from the coast to the inland areas is not easily feasible and it is one of the major economic reforms China is trying right now. In fact, the government attempts more and more to encourage development inland.

Party officials certainly do not "drive Ferraris." Yes, some party officials are better off than the people, but that's case even in the US. The salaries that the politicians make in the US put them into the upper-middle class.

If you think the Bush attitude to global warming, pollution and the rights of the citizen is backward, it's probably better for your blood pressure not to ask about China.
China actually does care about the environment. For example, during all years of schooling, children are required to learn about environmental issues in ways ranging from lectures to taking care of plants. Yes, citizens' rights is a concern, however, refer to a comment I have posted previously, It's 2004 People.

Last week there was a large pro-democracy rally in Hong Kong, which was (shamefully) handed over to the Chinese by the British in 1997, in circumstances that were never envisaged in the original treaty.
It was certainly not "shamefully" handed back to the Chinese. First, HK was rightfully part of China until the British took it by force and trickery. Instead of assuming the eurocentric viewpoint (you seem to imply a preference of Western education and government), let's examine the history: The opium wars... where the British addicted millions of Chinese to opium and then used force to get better trade negotiations and Hong Kong. It's not a shame that HK was returned to its rightful owner. Hong Kong is still a major economic center in Asia today under China's rule.

The British built Hong Kong into a capitalist economy, educated the Chinese and taught them all about Western systems of government
I disagree. Regardless of who ruled Hong Kong, it would have turned into a great economic force. It is one of the most important ports in Asia and it cannot be ignored.

we're handing you over to the 800lb gorilla who thinks Genghis Khan was an enlightened ruler
You want to cite your sources on this one? Genghis Khan ruled China by force, no one liked him, and he was overthrown by the Chinese because they hated him (Yuan dynasty, one of the only non-Han dynasties). That's hardly the kind of action the people would show for "an enlightened ruler."

I'm not criticizing you in particular, there are a lot of posts similar to yours on /. in general. Yours happened to have a bunch of the topics I wanted to address. I'm not saying China is the greatest place to live either, but let's give it some credit.

Re:Obligatory Great Firewall of China Reference

[1u3hr]

Party officials certainly do not "drive Ferraris."

Of course not, They drive Mercedes.

It's not a shame that HK was returned to its rightful owner.

The China that HK was a part of was Imperial China. This country does not exist any more. It's just as true, and just as irrelevant to say that the Communists stole China from its "rightful" owner, the Emperor.

And we're not talking about real estate, but 6 million people who were delivered to the rule of a government that many had risked their lives to escape from when they came to Hong Kong, of their own free will.

Genghis Khan ruled China by force, no one liked him

One thing I have to agree with, he wasn't even Chinese. However, Mao Zedong was, he did kill upwards of 50 million in the Great Leap Forward and Cultural Revolution, when of course people were risking their lives to escape in to Hong Kong.

Safe?

[Sinus0idal]

How can 'small scale testing' prove anything to be safe?

Look at History

[Prince Vegeta SSJ4]

340,282,366,920,938,463,463,374,607,431,768,211,45 6K should be enough for anybody

Bill Gates 2004

Re:1/5 to 1/4 quarter of the world popolution

[bofkentucky]

No, but their flawed government can be.

Re:1/5 to 1/4 quarter of the world popolution

[anicholo]

Yes, that's true.
But it is true for ALL goverments to some degree (yes, your's too (your's specially, if you are american)).

The fact that the chinese comunism stinks so bad doesn't mean America's Imperialism smells like flowers. It doesn't.