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Debian Project Votes To Postpone Policy Changes
jonoxer writes "A little while ago members of the Debian project voted to make changes to the Social Contract. As previously reported on Slashdot, the end result looked likely to be a delay in the release of Sarge, the next Stable edition of Debian, until 2005. But on Saturday Debian developers voted to postpone the changes until after Sarge releases, effectively affirming that the changes need to be made but making a pragmatic decision to not let the next release be delayed as a result. The official voting page doesn't show the result yet, but it's been semi-officially announced."
are you talking about social contract or postponing it? how can postponing can be bad for debian desktop usage?
for the former, Debian is very strong all over the world, so if debian starts enforcing social contract, most developers will have to fallow Debian rules in order to penetrate to debian repository. finally, just for you information, new debian installer is much better than knoppix hd installer.
This is good news. Alas, it will still have been too long when Sarge comes out.
I've heard others elsewhere suggest that there should be a server distro and a desktop distro in Debian. I like the idea personally.
Yes, I know about testing and unstable. I use unstable as my desktop. However, I'd like to have reasonable recent software without dealing with the constant moving target that is unstable. I'd like to see a desktop version that is updated every six to twelve months and that isn't held to the same standards the server sub-distro would held to. I think unstable updates too often. Stability is also a factor. Yes, unstable is relatively stable, but you have to keep close watch on incoming packages to make sure they don't break something.
This would also allow for docs to be made for the majority of Desktop Debian users who don't seem to be using stable.
Apt is "available" on other distros, but it's NOT the same apt that debian has.
Quite simply, because a deb gets through more QA before release, not to mention that the standard debian packages have the following advantages:
1) most debian packages manage config file changes by the user, and try to merge them(at least in unstable, not 100% sure about Sarge as of yet)
2) Debian's userid/tcp-ip ports management through dpkg catches more errors and allows better handling for special situations(like development boxes running several different kinds of web servers, for instance), that might just be my personal experience however(although the amount of work I had to perform to get 6 different types of webservers on a single debian box was lower than on any other distro I've tried by a large amount)
3) I take exception to your "What's the point of getting Debian stable, when it is so out of date?" statement. Until you replace stable with unstable, I read that as an oxymoron. Stable software was out of date last month, it is however, secure, usable, and third parties have had months to work out their alphas and beta phases, so now you can use it with your 12321322123112 machines with no worries that a bug hasn't been found YET. Not that Debian is IMMUNE to bugs, but up-to-date software IS rife with bugs(and if you're lucky, you don't wait too long for your fix). But with debian stable, that's confusing the security patches, with the next generation release, and that's bad juju.
The branch of Debian I notice you don't mention anywhere, is testing, which just might do what you think is Stable's job. For the rest of us, I'll go pray that some 3rd parties get a clue from Debian and start producing Stable branches of their software that break less often than their Unstable ones.
I mean, it obvious they really care about the contract. It's obvious many users are not _as_ interested in waiting for the contract to be reexamined.
So they move Sarge while agreeing to discuss it at a later date.
When's the last time you saw something this internally important to a project drag a project down in flames? How many other non and for profit organizations have torn apart/forked or become non productive over such a dispute?
It's a nice compromise and I'm glad they're willing to be so reasonable about it.
As far as being out of touch, hey slow and steady is still a winning strategy for those willing to wait. *
~G
* glances at apt source.list for all the lovely unstable bits.. I'm not one who likes waiting tho' ^_^
...when it gets down to fundamentals, do what you have to do and shed no tears. Dr. Matson in Tunnel in the Sky
Sometimes I wonder if it would be better for Debian to call the stable branch "frozen" instead. It'd disspell a lot of the myths about how Debian is 4 years behind the times.
:-/
But then again, some of the Debian core developers think the world should conform to them, not the other way around...
The way every other package based installer works (that I've used anyway) is to install all the packages from the installer boot (usually by forcing dependencies) and then say "all done, reboot now".
The way the Debian installer works is to install a barest minimum system that will boot and run apt and then reboot. Then once it has rebooted it asks for some apt repositories, asks which packages you want install and then installs them (this bit may take a couple of passes though the list to work out any warts in the dependencies). Having done that it presents you with a fully working system WITHOUT a reboot.
The fact they can have that much confidence in the apt repository and the tools is pretty impressive.
Nerd: Derogatory term typically directed at anybody with a lower Slashdot ID than you.