Slashdot Mirror


The Software Politics Of 2004's Presidential Race

mjamil writes "The NYT(free registration required) has an article talking about the polarized use of OSS in the building of campaign Web sites. Specifically, it states that the sites for John Kerry (Democratic candidate for President) and the Democratic National Committee are built using OSS, while the site for President Bush's re-election campaign uses IIS. Linus and ESR are quoted. It's an interesting look at how even presidential politics are no longer immune to the free software war (free as in beer)." (David Brunton, pictured in the article, wrote to say "Now I'm going to go call my mom... won't she be proud? For all those girl geeks and gay geeks out there, I'm already taken, but it is an awful nice picture, isn't it?")

25 of 417 comments (clear)

  1. OR IT COULD BE COINCIDENCE. by hfis · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I dont know, maybe i'm wrong? It just seems to me that most politicians wouldnt really *care* about what platforms their websites are hosted on..

    1. Re:OR IT COULD BE COINCIDENCE. by m.corum · · Score: 5, Informative

      That's spot on. NPR did a story on this about a month ago, and as it turns out, Kerry's site was only using OSS because the people (either hired or volunteer) that designed and implemented the site were fans and users of OSS themselves. Kerry himself had no direct input into the matter.

      --
      "... and you know it's dependable, 'cause it's made by Microsoft."
  2. I AM NOW VIOLATING COPYRIGHT by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

    In a campaign season of polarization, when Republicans and Democrats seem far apart on issues like Iraq, the economy and leadership style, it is perhaps not surprising that the parties find themselves on different sides in the politics of software as well.

    The Web sites of Senator John Kerry and the Democratic National Committee run mainly on the technology of the computing counterculture: open-source software that is distributed free, and improved and debugged by far-flung networks of programmers.

    In the other corner, the Web sites of President Bush and the Republican National Committee run on software supplied by the corporate embodiment of big business - Microsoft.

    The two sides are defined largely by their approach to intellectual property. Fans of open-source computing regard its software as a model for the future of business, saying that its underlying principle of collaboration will eventually be used in pharmaceuticals, entertainment and other industries whose products are tightly protected by patents or copyrights.

    Many of them propose rewriting intellectual property laws worldwide to limit their scope and duration. The open-source path, they insist, should accelerate the pace of innovation and promote long-term economic growth. Theirs is an argument of efficiency, but also of a reshuffling of corporate wealth.

    Microsoft and other American companies, by contrast, have long argued that intellectual property is responsible for any edge the United States has in an increasingly competitive global economy. Craig Mundie, chief technical officer and a senior strategist at Microsoft, observed, "Whether copyrights, patents or trade secrets, it was this foundation in law that made it possible for companies to raise capital, take risks, focus on the long term and create sustainable business models."

    The dispute can take on a political flavor at times. David Brunton, who is a founder of Plus Three, a technology and marketing consulting company that has done much of the work on the Democratic and Kerry Web sites, regards open-source software as a technological expression of his political beliefs. Mr. Brunton, 28, a Harvard graduate, describes himself as a "very left-leaning Democrat." He met his wife, Lina, through politics; she is a staff member at the Democratic National Committee.

    His company's client list includes state Democratic parties in Ohio and Missouri, and union groups including the United Federation of Teachers and the parent A.F.L.-C.I.O. "The ethic of open source has pervaded progressive organizations," Mr. Brunton said.

    The corporate proponents of strong intellectual property rights say, in essence, that what is good for Microsoft, Merck and Disney is good for America. But they argue as well that the laws that protect them also protect the ideas of upstart innovators. They have made their case forcefully in Washington and before international groups, notably the World Intellectual Property Organization, a United Nations specialized agency.

    "This is a huge ideological debate and it goes way beyond software," said James Love, director of the Consumer Project on Technology, a nonprofit group affiliated with Ralph Nader that advocates less restrictive intellectual property rules.

    But the politics surrounding open-source software do not always fit neatly into party categories. The people who work on software like the Linux operating system, the Apache Web server and others are an eclectic bunch of technologists. "You'll find gun nuts along with total lefties," Linus Torvalds, the creator of Linux, said in an e-mail message.

    Still, those who find the cooperative, open-source ethos appealing tend most often to be libertarians, populists and progressives. Not surprisingly, open-source software was well represented in Howard Dean's Democratic presidential primary campaign, which so effectively used the Internet and Web logs in grass-roots organizing.

    Those open-source advocates will presumably find Senator Kerry more appeal

  3. Re:free as in beer by MikeDX · · Score: 5, Funny

    1. "Free as in beer" - The same as if you were given a beer to drink and you didnt pay for it.

    2. "Free as in speech" - This is when you pay for the beer, but its priceless to hear you talk when drunk :)

  4. Michael Badnarik by Stile+65 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The Libertarian presidential candidate's websites are running FreeBSD and Windows 2003. Interesting. :>

    --
    I claim first use of "Error No. 0B" - or "No. 0B error." It'll be the new ID 10T!
  5. Re:free as in beer by FireFury03 · · Score: 4, Informative

    Its in the slashdot FAQ, but basically there are 2 types of "free" in the english language - free as in beer and freedom - the debate is always on as to the meaning of "free" software:

    Free as in beer - costs no money
    Freedom - no (or not many) restrictions on it. I.e. opensource software may be thought of as "free" because you are (usually) entitled to modify and redistribute the software to suit your purposes, so long as you follow some basic rules.

  6. What Microsoft gives by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    I guess it's good time to keep our eyes on what Microsoft gives to political parties.

    1. Re:What Microsoft gives by zhenlin · · Score: 4, Informative

      1998: 64% to the Republicans.
      2000: 53% to the Republicans.
      2002: 60% to the Republicans.
      2004: 42% to the Republicans.

      Hmm. General trend, downwards.

  7. even for linux fanboys and MS haters by chegosaurus · · Score: 4, Insightful

    this has to be the single most unimportant issue in world politics today. I really struggle to believe that anyone would read anything into, or make any kind of an issue over what webserver hosts a politician's website.

    What's the reasoning here? "Kerry's webserver runs teh linux, so if he wins he will destroy MS and the world will be happy and live as one with no more wars or fighting."

    1. Re:even for linux fanboys and MS haters by Nate+B. · · Score: 5, Insightful

      A little reminder for those of you who believe having a (D) behind one's name means that said politician is anti-big business, I refer you to the article from a few days ago of Dan Glickman being named to succeed Jack Valenti at the MPAA. I would also point out that Mr. Glickman comes from the red state of Kansas and proudly served as the representative from the Wichita area and as President Clinton's Secretary of Agriculture. Mr. Glickman is a Democrat.

      I know this is /., but please take your blinders off. Not all Democrats hate Microsoft and big business and not all Republicans find Free Software to be communism. I for one vote predominantly Republican, I go to church on most Sundays, I work for a big company in IT (where I've witnessed the failings of proprietary crud first hand), and I use Debian and recommend Free Software to any one willing to try it.

      I think your Big Business rant is a bit over the hypocritical top since this site is run by another "big business"...

      - Nate >>

      --

      "Insanity is doing the same thing over again expecting a different result."
    2. Re:even for linux fanboys and MS haters by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      i) DMCA doesn't really limit your freedom does it? Draconian "homeland security" laws limit your freedom. Your government's paranoia limits your freedom. Go and tell people in Burma how the DMCA limits your freedom.

      So you wouldn't mind if I stole $1000 from you, I presume. I mean, stealing $1000 doesn't really hurt the average American, does it? Go and tell those people in the third world who are trying to scratch a living on a dollar a day how someone stealing $1000 from your bank account hurts you.

      ii) How can MS hold back an entire industry when your OSS people are free to innovate all they want?

      The existence of a superior solution at a lower price does not automatically mean it will be adopted. In the hypothetical case that MS were using their huge cash reserves to bribe IT managers to choose Microsoft products, for example, it wouldn't matter how good Linux was - Microsoft would be chosen.

      I'm not claiming that's happening for a moment - I'm just answering your question. It's a possible way.

      iii) fair point. But I feel you are being a little naive if you don't believe Kerry will be *almost* as subservient to big business as Bush.

      An equally fair point. But it remains the case that you should pick the lesser of two evils, even if that means you're still getting an evil.

      Linux does *not* preserve my freedom. If linux disappeared tomorrow, the world would not blink. 95% of the world's population have never heard of it, and if someone told them about it, they wouldn't care. IT'S JUST A COMPUTER PROGRAM and it WILL NOT change the world.

      MS-DOS was just a computer program, of which at least 90% of the world's population have still never heard, and that changed the world - by helping personal computers to become commodities.

      Now Linux is changing the world, by helping people in third-world countries to gain access to cheap computers.

      Just because you haven't noticed the difference, doesn't mean the world is still the same.

    3. Re:even for linux fanboys and MS haters by BlackHawk-666 · · Score: 5, Insightful
      "...nobody can take our Linux away from us"

      I'm sorry, but this is only true outside of the United States at the moment, and maybe not even there if the stupid European Software patents gets approved. If you haven't noticed, MS has been hosing up new and frivalous patents at an alarming rate. It's only a matter of time before they get enough of a portfolio together to slam the living shit out of the penguin.

      MS is a big business, who is actively expanding their patent portifolio, but even worse, they are in a position to negotiate hostile patent actions against GNU/Linux i.e. enter an agreement with a smaller patent holding company keen to do business with the behemoth. MS is already using SCO like some sort of meat puppet to put pressure on GNU/Linux, they won't stop there.

      When they have enough patents organised, they can get a court request to stop distribution of Linux until it is recoded to not use those patents. This could include simple things double clicks, access to the FAT32 file system, SMB patents, maybe some of that OpenGL stuff they got a few years back. In any case, the penguin will always be in peril; in a world with software patents there is no true freedom to innovate with software.

      --
      All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain.
    4. Re:even for linux fanboys and MS haters by illumin8 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      this has to be the single most unimportant issue in world politics today. I really struggle to believe that anyone would read anything into, or make any kind of an issue over what webserver hosts a politician's website.

      I disagree. The fact that the Republican party would choose to use an inferior commercial software package (IIS) when a superior free version of the same software is available (Apache) goes a long way towards showing what type of party they are. As much as they say they want "small government", when it comes down to it, they want "big government" propping up "big companies" with taxpayer subsidies. Plain and simple. This also shows why as soon as they are in power, they invent a war in order to provide more government money to their big contractor buddies (Halliburton, KBR, Enron, etc.). Sure, the webserver expenditures are only a small part of it, but it shows how completely the GOP has been bought and paid for by large corporations.

      I'm not saying the Dems are completely innocent as well, but let's face it, they're much less in the pocket of large defense contractors, pharmaceutical companies, energy companies, and yes, software monopolies.

      --
      "When the president does it, that means it's not illegal." - Richard M. Nixon
  8. Re:free as in beer by scorilo · · Score: 4, Funny

    Get a beer first, only THEN will you understand :)

    --
    "One of the symptoms of an approaching nervous breakdown is the belief that ones work is terribly important." -BRussell
  9. You say girl geeks by dysprosia · · Score: 4, Funny

    But not all girl geeks are straight, dammit!

  10. Re:And this is the difference. by foidulus · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Bush believes in supporting hard working American workers. Even if he has topay for it, he knows that it's worth it to put food on the plates of his citizens and subjects. He probably also eats American grown food, flies in an American buiolt plane and drives an American car Kerry on the other hand uses foreign imported free software. He thinks that cost is the only area that matters. He probably drives an imported car and flies using foreign airlines such as Quantas and Aeroflot.
    I know, I know, don't feed the trolls, but this one is too good. My bet is that you are typing this on a computer that has large chunks of the hardware manufactured in Taiwan and assembled in mainland China(China actually doesn't do much high tech manufacturing...yet). Probably on Microsoft software, Microsoft has had large development centers in India(thus foriegn) for a while.
    And while linux may have originated in Finland, a very large chunk of the code was written in the US.
    So I find it hard to believe that Kerry's platform is any less American than yours...

  11. What OS does Kerry or Bush use? by tritone · · Score: 4, Interesting

    That would be more revealing than what their websites run on. To the best of my recollection, Kerry didn't answer the question "Mac or PC?" at a debate among the democratic contenders (Al Sharpton was the only Mac user). I also recall reading that Bush used a Mac, and that he used to be an enthusiastic emailer until he was informed that records would be kept of all his email. I may be wrong about all this. Maybe someone could provide better info.

  12. News, Timothy? by sql*kitten · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I have to wonder if Timothy would have posted this story had it been the other way round? Same as the Greenpeace story earlier. Ooo, political organizations that Timothy personally likes use technology too!

    This is not news, Timothy.

  13. Re:free as in beer by Big+Nothing · · Score: 5, Informative
    "Free as in beer. Could someone please explain what this means. It comes up often and I don't get it."

    The word "free" can mean more than one thing in the english language. In order to explain the meaning of the word "free" you can append a short explanaition, such as "as in beer" or "as in speech".

    Free (as in beer) means that the product/service in question can be obtained/used without you having to pay money for it. This is perhaps the most common use of the word in the daily language.

    Free (as in speech) is a phrase only valid when discussing information. Free (as in speech) means that the information in question doesn't have a copyright restriction appended it (or similar).

    • A car can be free (as in beer). It cannot be free (as in speech).
    • A recorded song (for example an MP3-file) can be either free-as-in-beer (meaning that you don't have to pay any money for it) or free-as-in-speech (you are free to spread the song, to re-record the song, to perform the song, to play the song in public, etc).

    On slashdot, the most common subject of discussion is software. Just like a song, a software program can be free-as-in-beer, free-as-in-speech or both. The idea of OSS is that software should be free (as in speech), so that you are legally allowed to modify, complement, extend, etc. it.

    Just because a piece of software is free (as in speech) does not mean that it has no restrictions in how it can be handled. Examples of restrictions are:

    • The software can be freely spread, but not profited from (i.e. you have to give it away, or only charge for the cost you have for spreading it - say the cost of a CD-R and post stamp).
    • The software can be freely spread, but the original licence and creator information must always be spread with the software.
    • You are free to modify and sell the software for profit but you must always include the original source code.
    • You are free to modify and extend the software but any modifications you make must be publicly available under the same rules as the original code.
    --
    SIG: TAKE OFF EVERY 'CAPTAIN'!!
  14. Re:It used to be the other way around by nevets · · Score: 5, Informative

    Hmmm, I actually remember it being the other way as you state it. GWB with IIS and Gore with Apache. Gore was the one to support the anti-trust case against MS while talking to the people at MS.

    --
    Steven Rostedt
    -- Nevermind
  15. From the PoliTech Mailing list and comments by Hungus · · Score: 5, Informative
    Subject: Rating the Bush and Kerry Web sites on security
    Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2004 17:43:44 -0400
    From: Richard M. Smith <rms@computerbytesman.com>
    To: 'Declan McCullagh' <declan@well.com>

    Hi,

    To rate George Bush and John Kerry on the Homeland Security issue, I just
    completed two quick security audits of the official Bush
    (http://www.georgewbush.com/) and Kerry (http://www.johnkerry.com/) campaign
    Web sites. Unfortunately, I found problems at both Web sites.

    Here are the results of my testing so far:

    1. Both the Bush and the Kerry Web sites have cross-site scripting errors
    (XSS). These errors can allow a prankster to create fake Web pages which
    load from the Bush or Kerry Web sites but additional content can be supplied
    from a different Web server belonging to a prankster. A prankster could
    then say anything they want on a Bush or Kerry Web page using a XSS error.
    Examples include fake news stories, slogans telling visitors to vote for the
    other candidate, and doctored photos of a candidate.

    2. Error trapping at the Kerry Web site isn't very good. Typing unusual
    characters into Web forms at the Kerry Web site causes Web server
    applications to fail and a visitor is shown very cryptic error pages. These
    problems might be a sign of SQL injection errors which can be quite serious.
    An SQL injection error can sometimes be used by an outsider to break into a
    backend database at a Web site and then to make off with private information
    from the database.

    3. The Bush Web site has hired a company called Omniture to track users at
    the Bush Web site. Omniture uses hidden Web bugs to do this tracking.
    Perhaps this Web site feature was requested by John Ashcroft? ;-) This
    relationship with Omniture is not spelled out in the Bush Web site privacy
    policy. For more about information about Omniture, check out their Web site
    at http://www.omniture.com/company.html.

    4. Both the Bush and Kerry Web sites encourage visitors to add banner ads
    for the candidates to their own Web pages. The Bush banner ad uses
    JavaScript supplied from the Bush Web server (See
    http://www.georgewbush.com/WStuff/BPAdFeed.a spx). The Kerry banner ads use
    an embedded IFRAME (See http://www.johnkerry.com/download/promos.html).
    B oth banner ad schemes allow the campaigns to track visitors to any Web
    pages where the banner ads appear. In addition, the Bush JavaScript scheme
    allows the Bush Web server to run any script code inside of other people's
    Web pages. This scheme doesn't strike me as a very good idea from a
    security standpoint.

    5. Both candidates have good Web site privacy policies. For some odd
    reason, the Kerry Web site privacy policy is also certified by Truste and
    BBBOnline.

    6. It appears that the open source vs. closed source debate has also
    entered the presidential campaign. The Kerry home page comes from an Apache
    Web server running on a Red Hat Linux box. The Bush Web site on the other
    hand is hosted on a more corporate Microsoft-powered IIS 5.0 server and uses
    ASP.NET. I did not check to see if this IIS server is up to date with
    Microsoft security patches.

    If anyone else runs across anything interesting at these two Web sites,
    please let me know.

    Richard M. Smith
    http://www.ComputerBytesMan.com

    ________ _______________________________________
    Politech mailing list
    Archived at http://www.politechbot.com/
    Moderated by Declan McCullagh (http://www.mccullagh.org/)
    Now when it comes down to who uses what tools and software let me ask this as my own comment. Do you think either politician even knows what their site is running on? Further do you think they care? Most likely someone on the IT staff at each party knows someone who works at or owns a hosting company and whatever they have as default is what the candidate is using. I would personally be far more interested in what they use personally compared to this, and of course far more than that in their policies and practices.
    --
    Bad Panda! No Bamboo for you! In matters of importance ACs will not be responded to. Want to say something critical,OK
  16. Re:Redundant - RTFA by big+tex · · Score: 4, Informative

    It's redundant because the 0th comment (the f-ing article) covered it.

    From the NYT link:
    Told that the Democratic National Committee Web site runs on open-source software, Tony Welch, the national committee's press secretary, replied, "Oh, thanks for telling me." Later, after checking with his technical staff, Mr. Welch called back to say that open-source software was "the right technology at the right price."

    Besides, if you can't figure out how to register with the NYT w/o giving up any real info, you've got bigger problems.

    --
    I think I need a new sig here.
  17. big omission by akb · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I think the article makes a large omission when it doesn't point out that the Internet was a government funded project that grew up with the proto-free software movement. DARPA first approached ATT, then the owner of all phone lines in the country (when modems came along you weren't allowed to plug them directly into a phone line), about building a network based on open protocols and ATT turned them down because they wouldn't be able to control it. Remember AOL before they built in access to the Web? That probably is what the Internet would have looked like had ATT had control over whatever the Internet might have been in that alternate universe. Hell, even in the late 80's the head of ATT said there was no need for NSFnet because they could provide ISDN to the desktop.

    It was a specific type of policy oriented towards open-ness that led to the Internet being the way it is. The software that underlies the Internet is free software, it has been and still is the dominant form of software in the infrastructure which makes up the Internet. Open source is not "counter culture" on the Internet as the article portrays. The only reason MS has any role on the Internet is they have leveraged their desktop monopoly.

    I wish reporters understood these things.

  18. Re:MOD PARENT UP by MP3Chuck · · Score: 5, Informative

    As someone who has a NYT registration, I have to say that I've never recieved [noticed?] a single bit of spam coming as a result of said registration.

  19. Re:Liberterian my Ass. by Money+for+Nothin' · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Wish I had mod points. You put it perfectly, in a wonderfully-similar style as Thomas Jefferson did in the Declaration of Independence where he laid out the King's transgressions.

    You may add to your list the following:

    * He supports laws which violate the Second Amendment. [e.g. the 1994 Assualt Weapons Ban]
    * He supports the arrest and incarceration of those accused of a crime without giving them a trial as required by the Constitution. [in Gitmo. Fortunately, the Supreme Court recently smacked him for doing it.]
    * He has attempted to merge church and state. [particularly in schools]
    * He has instituted taxes upon the consumers of particular industries so as to aid those industries in their commerce. [e.g. the steel tariffs, although thankfully, they have been reduced from their original level]

    I'm sure there's others too if I sat around and thought about it long enough...