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Windows Update v5 Gathering Too Much Information?
LucasR asks: "I was testing out Microsoft's Windows Update v5 and read their latest privacy statement from April 15th of this year, and it appears they are collecting and storing more information than ever. Here is only some of what they are now collecting: computer make and model, version information for the operating system, browser, and any other Microsoft software for which updates might be available, Plug and Play ID numbers of hardware devices, and IP address (though only for aggregate statistics so they claim). Some of what they are collecting is really disturbing. I use Microsoft's products but I don't recall wanting them to know everything about my computer and what competing applications I might use. Check it out for yourself. Isn't this amount of collected information a bit much?"
Nice link, I found the 404 page extremely helpful
please fix the link
thanks
Did you know that "FTW" ("for the win") is a direct translation of "Sieg Heil"?
Here's the fixed link: http://v5.windowsupdate.microsoft.com/v5consumer/p rivacy.aspx?ln=en
Slashdot: Failed Car Analogies. Amateur Lawyering. Anecdote Battles.
It's a beta site. Microsoft's beta products usually collect more information in order to help recreate failure scenarios. When I've done betas in the past, I've collected additional information for the same purpose, and I disclosed it the same way.
In this case, I'd say "chill." A stable Windows Update is a boon to security.
RomSteady - I came, I saw, I tested. GamerTag: RomSteady / http://www.romsteady.net
The editors here are getting paid right?
RandomAndInteresting.comdefending the world from stupidity since 1979
The current version is v4, so if you tested v5, you apparently signed up for it, or were invited or decided it was worth it to get on the beta testing team.
Betas usually ask testers to provide more information so that SQA can re-create the problem and such. If you feel uneasy, then don't sign up for beta testing.
"Here is only some of what they are now collecting: computer make and model, version information for the operating system, browser, and any other Microsoft software for which updates might be available, Plug and Play ID numbers of hardware devices, and IP address (though only for aggregate statistics so they claim)."
Other than the IP address, I would assume that they would have to know all of that information in order to be able to provide you with all the updates you may need. The hardware information is needed in order to provide updated drivers. I'm going to assume that by browser they mean information about IE, since we all know that that needs fequent updates. The only iffy things I see here is the IP address, and every web page you visit gets that, so I dont think its something to be overly concerned about.
And then there is the version information for other Microsoft software. Personally I love this. I hate having to go to OfficeUpdate to seperately check for updates to office. It would be nice if all my software could get updated thought windowsupdate. But I dont see Microsoft opening it up for other companies to use - so I will settle for just all microsoft software.
I think this is the page they wanted to link to: http://v5.windowsupdate.microsoft.com/v5consumer/d riversquery.xml
p rivacy.aspx?ln=en
Looks like they added BIOS info collection. This is news?
V5 privacy statement: http://v5.windowsupdate.microsoft.com/v5consumer/
v4 privacy statement:
Windows Update Privacy Statement (Last Updated 10/17/2003)
Windows Update is committed to protecting your privacy. To provide you with the appropriate list of updates, Windows Update must collect a certain amount of configuration information from your computer. None of this configuration information can be used to identify you. This information includes:
Operating-system version number
Internet Explorer version number
Version numbers of other software for which Windows Update provides updates
Plug and Play ID numbers of hardware devices
Region and Language setting
The configuration information collected is used only to determine the appropriate updates and to generate aggregate statistics. Windows Update does not collect your name, address, e-mail address, or any other form of personally identifiable information.
Windows Update also collects the Product ID and Product Key to confirm that you are running a validly licensed copy of Windows. A validly licensed copy of Windows ensures that you will receive on-going updates from Windows Update. The Product ID and Product Key are not retained beyond the end of the Windows Update session, unless the Product ID is not valid.
To provide you with the best possible service, Windows Update also tracks and records how many unique machines visit its site and whether the download and installation of specific updates succeeded or failed. In order to do this, the Windows operating system generates a Globally Unique Identifier (GUID) that is stored on your computer to uniquely identify it. The GUID does not contain any personally identifiable information and cannot be used to identify you. Windows Update records the GUID of the computer that attempted the download, the ID of the item that you attempted to download and install, and the configuration information listed above.
We don't have a state-run media we have a media-run state.
No.
Next question?
There are no trails. There are no trees out here.
MS has been collecting this info for years. They're just telling you about it now to make you feel good.
Some of what they are collecting is really disturbing
Disturbing? Yeah, now that they know your CPU model and BIOS version number they can clearly learn about your cross-dressing hobby.
From the article:
The Product ID and Product Key collected are not retained after you are finished using Windows Update, unless the Product ID is not valid.
Though my workplace has all validly licensed copies, there have been occassions where I've just grabbed the closest Product Key during a reinstall rather than pull up the database of which keys go with which machines. They WILL keep a product ID if they deem it to be invalid? How long before we are all getting audited for not memorizing 30 different Product Keys for the 30 different windows licenses we have?
How many roads must a man walk down? 42.
Does anyone know how much of the info collected by a WUS server, which is also collected by windows update, is passed on to M$ by the WUS server and/or the WUS client? It all seems to me to be relevent and useful info to collect, considering you've already overcome your privacy issues by agreeing to the EULA and have purchased CALs.
"Computer make and model": In order to figure out if particular motherboards need a fix applied. The AGP problem with Athlons immediately comes to mind.
"Version information for the operating system, browser, and any other Microsoft software for which updates might be available": For security updates to IE, Outlook, Word, etc...
"Plug and Play ID numbers of hardware devices": In case there is a fix for a particular bit of hardware. Maybe a DirectX update or something.
"Region and language setting": What, you don't want your driver interfaces to be in Bulgarian?
"Globally Unique Identifier (GUID)": Eh, not terribly interested in defending this one unless it's to count how many times a particular machine gets updated. I can't say I'm terribly concerned about this one either.
"Product ID and Product Key": Filed under D for DUH.
"BIOS name, revision number, and revision date": Again, may be related to fixes for a particular computer.
This stuff is far less scary when you read through some of the MSDN articles for quick fixes etc. It's pretty obvious that they attain this info for the Automatic Update to actually work. Damn them for creating this free service!
"Derp de derp."
There is a nice sample of what they're collecting in XML format. Well, it would be useful if it wasn't for the large block of encrypted into that they don't explain.
Maybe I'm just paranoid but if they're going to give a sample of the collected data, shouldn't they tell what's in that block?
Interesting site. I don't know what is scarier, the fact that so many of the posted answers are wrong, or the fact that so many of the posted questions are. At least I don't have to worry about my programming job too much then. :)
i connected to windowsupdate recently and manually changed the v4.windo---- to v5.windo--- just for kicks (b/c of rumors etc) and instantly i was sent to the new site.
It was interesting and they automatically update your "windows update" client that's on your PC. Oh yeah, even very FIRST generation versions of XP licenses aren't valid (i have a valid license but they say it's not... so I'm a bit confused.)
anywho. it's not an invite only thing. but maybe it is if it won't verify my key..?? perhaps so.
...they attach my name in real life to the bits they collect and start selling that information.
it's not an invasion of privacy to collect information on hardware.
what makes you think they record the items you listed? seriously. i'm curious how you've come to this conclusion.
>You aren't going to get audited with only 30 XP licences.
Huh?? Where have you been?? First, the MS I mean the BSA folks are sending FISHING expidition style letters to most legal departments. Nothing prompts these letters except maybe buying a handful of HP computers *without* buying same # of "Server" licenses. Just ask any Samba shop how many of these they got.
Legal doesn't want to know if you feel 30 licenses is too low to chase. They got the "offer you can't refuse" letter, which implies you might not be legal but doesn't claim evidence. Legal just wants to know if you are 100% legit -- and you're an asshole to them if you're not (even though they may have been the first group to pirate that single freebie Office XP CD Microsoft mailed to everyone in the company listed as an Officer (bait!).
Intel has the power to shape the hardware industry. If they want the floppy to disappear, they can make it happen. The information gathered can be used to give an idea of how much legacy hardware is still in use and it could be used to predict future demands in hardware. Take that as opposed to old motherboards and expansion cards sitting at the dump. If the user visits Windows Update, then it's know that the hardware is still in use.
Where are your priorities?
/. almost every day, such as6 3721 4
Sincerely, not trying to flame, but this microsoft issue in this article is the only slashdot comment I find which has been authored by http://ask.slashdot.org/~LucasR
So I have to ask:
with everything else which is happening to steal or threaten our medical confidentiality, our privacy, our freedom to travel, freedom of speech, freedom of association, and other civil liberties -- things which appear on
http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/07/05/1
-- THIS issue (i.e. microsoft) is the issue you decide to worry about?!
When you run Windows Update, you get the following message:
Note Windows Update does not collect any form of personally identifiable information from your computer.
Under that is a link to the privacy statement telling you what they do collect. Here is the text behind the link:
Windows Update Privacy Statement (Last Updated 10/17/2003)
Windows Update is committed to protecting your privacy. To provide you with the appropriate list of updates, Windows Update must collect a certain amount of configuration information from your computer. None of this configuration information can be used to identify you. This information includes:
Operating-system version number
Internet Explorer version number
Version numbers of other software for which Windows Update provides updates
Plug and Play ID numbers of hardware devices
Region and Language setting
The configuration information collected is used only to determine the appropriate updates and to generate aggregate statistics. Windows Update does not collect your name, address, e-mail address, or any other form of personally identifiable information.
Windows Update also collects the Product ID and Product Key to confirm that you are running a validly licensed copy of Windows. A validly licensed copy of Windows ensures that you will receive on-going updates from Windows Update. The Product ID and Product Key are not retained beyond the end of the Windows Update session, unless the Product ID is not valid.
To provide you with the best possible service, Windows Update also tracks and records how many unique machines visit its site and whether the download and installation of specific updates succeeded or failed. In order to do this, the Windows operating system generates a Globally Unique Identifier (GUID) that is stored on your computer to uniquely identify it. The GUID does not contain any personally identifiable information and cannot be used to identify you. Windows Update records the GUID of the computer that attempted the download, the ID of the item that you attempted to download and install, and the configuration information listed above.
(note that the update date is 17 October 2003)
T.
I suspect that in their opinion they won't think they're gathering too much info till they need petabytes or exabytes of storage, if you know what I mean.
So, any bright sparks know how to create a way to give them enough info so that they stop asking us for info?
Clicking on something or making an HTTP access to something doesn't make it a legal contract. Tons of people click I agree coz they want to update their PC.
They are able to tell whether or not the key you are using for your XP install is a valid key or not. I can pull updates from v4, but not v5. Oh well.
Alcohol & calculus don't mix. Never drink & derive.
A unique identifier and your IP address, as well as a list of all your hardware and software. Looks like I won't be using Microsoft update again. Thanks to the OP for the heads up.
A bit much? That's several bytes too much!
While somewhat stupid, a lot of vendors have such limitations in their license agreements nowadays. AFAIK Oracle started with this some years back.
I think its really a paradox that I actually feel SAFER when doing these update internet thingies on Windows, since we have all those people around the world, monitoring what Microsoft do every day.
./configure make and such. Coz the userbase for that program might be very small, and sending private information might be un-known to the general public.
I'm sure it would be even in the news if Microsoft did something that was not allowed by laws of your government.
However, wget a mySUPER-GPL-programtar.gz leaves me with much less security when I run
I sure hate the fact.
For some reason visiting the Windows Update website causes a considerable delay in the browser, on the order of twenty to thirty seconds on a reasonable computer.
This compares poorly with about 5 seconds on a Mac or even 10 seconds for an apt-get update.
Could it be because it has to upload and/or analyze all this information?
If it's sending a GUID certain data should only need to be sent once, or at least the OS could manage when it needs to be sent again (new hardware, etc.)
My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
While nothing actually works, except for the Mozilla-customized CSS, it is rather amusing that I can get it to the real Windows Update website without resorting to User-Agent Switcher.
If you try to go to http://v4.windowsupdate.microsoft.com/, it informs me that I need a Windows operating system to use Windows Update.
Well, if Microsoft don't do it, they have put the tools in the OS so anyone could do so.