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Intermec Claims RFID is Proprietary
seeks2know writes "Line56.com reports that Intermec is claiming patents on RFID chips, readers, and tags. They have launched their first lawsuit against Matrics. They seek to sell licenses to all RFID manufacturers. Erik Michielsen of ABI Research states '...this definitely clouds the UHF Generation 2 standards discussions and is fueling considerable animosity in the industry.'
Interestingly, the patents that Intermec is claiming were acquired in their acquisition of IBM's RFID laboratory in December, 1997. Another case of a submarine patent strategy?"
Let the litigation begin!
Maybe this will delay RFID rollouts untill some of the privacy issues are fixed?
Comment forecast: Bits of genius surrounded by a sea of mediocrity.
It is quite difficult to believe that IBM, the warehouse of over 10,000 patents sells a new industry in a sell-off. If they have the patents for RFID, I doubt they swindled it from IBM.
"Engineers do the work of man, Physicists do the work of God"
This is great. Even though submarine patents are not a good thing (my opinion) here we win either way. Many companies are annoyed by the patent on something they thought was an open standard, and RFID tag adoption is hindered.
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(Unwarranted?) privacy concerns aside, RFID will make goods cheaper by reducing shrinkage and the time taken from employees to hunt for a barcode. Now the money will go into someone else's pocket instead of staying in your own.
Try not. Do or do not, there is no try.
-- Dr. Spock, stardate 2822-3.
If you go and patent something, get on the ball and stop people from copying your ideas from the get go, rather than waiting 7 years, until apparently the tech has caught on, and then trying to make all your real money through litigation!!
Assholes.
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
If it were possible for someone to legally place a toll boothe at the bottom of your driveway and charge you a dollar every time you want to drive anywhere regardless of the fact they do not contribute to the road, the driveway or yourself how long before someone would do so?
The answer is less than a New York minute.
Now someone can place a toll boothe for the use of an international standard, and despite the fact they probably did not contribute to that, then do you blame them for doing so?
It is blatantly obvious that some laws need changing, however, as long as the toll booth owners have the ears of the legislators the problem needs to be passed to the voters.
Things do not look good.
Web Sig: Eddy Currents
I am pretty sure I didn't get to wander away from work as much as our public servants do, when I had a "real" job [Now that I work for myself, hey, If I run the kid down to the pool for an hour, who cares?].
This issue is a bit more complicated than you think.
I wonder when Wal-Mart wil step into this fray and slap the combatants until all they can see is little yellow smiley faces. Wal-Mart seems pretty serious about RFID and won't be happy if the vendors start squabbling over IP rights.
Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do.
"Pulling an SCO" is a flawed variation of the "submarine patent strategy". Your supposed to wait till every company large and small depends on the technology, then start suing the small companies, not the big (IBM sized) ones.
A minature transponder, nothing unique about pinhead size electronics, without a battery (done before), that transmits a number, big deal, and a receiver that picks up that number, and treats it like a barcode (very old hat), that works unreliably in the real world, and wont work on tin cans / coke cans or most metalic consumer goods.
On a pallet of goods, the ones in the centre wont be picked up, think of salmon tins secreted between dog food tins, short of exposing the shopper and trolley to secret and harmful doses of ionising radiation, which works well in the next generation of X-ray rfid chips.
It does highlight how the patent system is getting in the way of progress though, and might peeve off some wealthy people, in which case something might get resolved. Just got to look at that Senator that nearly got shot down. THAT incident made the legislators take a closer look at whether 'homeland security' is actually doing its job. Nothing else would have.
"Oh good, the wolves are fighting, maybe they'll be so busy they'll leave us alone for a few minutes."
I doubt they have a patent covering the basic RFID technology. Chances are good that what they have are dozens of patents on how to use the technology - manufacturing techniques, various uses, perhaps some algorithms on more esoteric reader/tag interactions, etc.
Chances are good it'll have a chilling effect, but it won't hinder the industry at all. All that will happen is about $0.001 will go to this company for each tag, perhaps a few dollars for each reader, and the consumers will be left holding the bag.
The only real issue is all the lawyering that's going to have to go on to get the deals made - this is what's going to take time. If Walmart wants quick adoption, they'll either find a way around most of the patents, or they'll pay up. They won't try to discredit the patents - it'll be tied up for years, and the cost savings is still greater than the outlay.
-Adam
Yes, but this overlooks the real reason that Intermec is suing now: the desire to influence the standards process. You see, at the moment there are two competing standards candidates for the next generation of RFID chips. One comes from Intermec/Philips/TI, and the other from Matrics/Alien Technologies. The side that wins will profit hugely (many millions) because they'll have a faster time to market with their products. Big stuff.
I have no idea if Intermec plans to ride this lawsuit to the end, or if they're just using it as leverage to get their way in the standards process. It's possible that a graceful concession by the other side will see this thing go away, and Intermec graciously agree not to prosecute the suit. Or they may be in it for the long haul. Either way, they've decided to break out the big guns and they obviously think it will be worth it in the end.
True, but zero wrongs are still better
"[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz
Why didn't the RFID industry do a thorough patent search BEFORE they put so much effort into commercialising the technology? If the patent in question so obviously covers the majority of inventive steps involved in the RFID process then a search would have warned them of potential patent breach. If the patent is quite obscure and not directly relevant to the RFID process then applications should have been made on behalf of the indsutry group to cover this simply as a means to stop any one company from trying to claim ownership.
If only companies and such industries learned from such obvious mistakes made in the past then there wouldn't be all this whinging about how the patent system is broken. I am an inventor myself. I always do thorough patent searches before even contemplating filing. I know how difficult it is to get a great idea to commercialisation even if deep pockets are available. Because of this, I don't think it is fair to blame people that own the IP for wanting to get their dues when that invention makes it to market, whether it be by their own hand or not. Although, I do agree that the issue gets quite contentious when large companies, as opposed to the little guys, do this with submarine patents. But then again, the groups commercialising the tech should have done a thorough SEARCH!
ogglelog
Basically, they're selling rights. You can't do X unless you pay us. Doesn't matter if you came up with it yourself or never even heard of them, you must pay or they'll sue. I really don't like the direction our fundamentally creative tech industry is headed.
Forget thrust, drag, lift and weight. Airplanes fly because of money.
Weren't the Wrights rolling in dough from the royalties under such "just compensation"?
I think the Wrights were more concerned about not having a total monopoly over air transport (the reason the government forced the rights so that multiple contractors could build planes.)
tell it to the 6,000 farmers in klamath falls oregon who had 300 million taken from them by the feds without any compensation in 2000 and 2001. They even demanded the farmers pony up a useage tax fee for services they never got, after first denying them their farm land irrigation water that THEY own, bought and paid for decades previously. The fifth amendment didn't apply at all. Well it did,obviously, I can read it, you can read it and remembered it to make a point, which I agree with, but in real life, no, it doesn't exist. But these farmers hero, who they trusted and mostly voted for, shrubby bush, completely ignored them, as did the courts, the federal pigs, the legislators, and most of the news media.
Just accept it so you can live your life easier and better and develop your own work arounds, because the Constitution hasn't applied to anything for ages, it's a complete and utter charade. You live in a police state,the implementations are all around you, sure and steady and completely obvious. every day it gets worse here, or over there. they don't nail all the subjects at once, they spread the pain around until everyone is suffering, they just know enough psychology and advertising to do it slowly and never nail any large numbers of people all at once. It's mass conditioning done on an equisite scale. They maybe just haven't gotten around to shafting you personally yet,so maybe you haven't seen it yet, but don't worry, they will. You own no "rights", the government owns all of them, and you must apply for a permission to use any of them. And if you start to give me examples where you think you actually have any rights, I can counter with at least two or three exceptions to the rule, big ones, right down the list, every single one, without breaking a sweat.
I could list examples by the dozens, but I just don't feel like it right now. Not trolling or flaming, merely stating fact.
RFID is not automatically evil!
Tools can be used for bad or for good. RFID is a tool. It can be used for bad (privacy invasion) or good: EZ-pass, speedpass, streamlining warehouse/retail operation, and applications we haven't even thought of yet...
Am I the only one who is sick and tired of automatic rabid bitching anytime this technology is brought up?
We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from the machinations of the wicked.
I used Intermec's RFID products in a semiconductor company that's now long gone. It was pretty cool stuff, actually. They used the tags to track lots of wafers as they rode around the fab in process. Mobil gas stations in Southern California have this thing called "SpeedPass" which is essentially the same thing, but attached to your credit card info on the server. Yes, perhaps Intermec has a good case here, but the courts should take into account when companies sit idle while their IP is being "violated", to make some dough later on.
I don't know enough about Intermec, but it sounds like you folks are playing the game correctly. Kudos!
The reason many people are rabid about patent enforcement is that the USPTO has been rubberstamping patents on everything from "the wheel" to "breathing", and every two-bit carpetbagger in the world is trying to get rich by patenting some trivial process and suing the world. Software patents, which have tended to be overly broad, are particularly vile. While the courts have proven reasonably sage in deciding the deluge of lawsuits, this remedy requires huge investments of time and money on the part of the accused.
Like so many other areas, you are paying for the sins of those who have come before you. Guilty by association. If you have patented a valid technology, and your licensing fees are lower than the cost of developing an alternative, you deserver to enjoy the fruits of your labor, for 17 years, so don't mind the trolls!