Slashdot Mirror
USA PATRIOT Act Survives Amendment Attempt
crem_d_genes writes "A bill to modify the USA PATRIOT Act that would have blocked part of the legislation's provisions that allow for the investigation of people's reading habits was defeated by a 210-210 vote in the U.S House of Representives. The House leaders kept the roll call open for 23 minutes past the 15 minute deadline to persuade 10 Representatives to change votes. According to the article 'Rep. Zach Wamp, R-Tenn., said he switched his initial "yes" vote to "no" after being shown Justice Department documents asserting that terrorists have communicated over the Internet via public library computers.' On the other hand, 'Critics of the Patriot Act argued that even without it, investigators can get book store and other records simply by obtaining subpoenas or search warrants.'"
The problem is, if i email you something saying how to create a virus and take out networks and they see it went to you. You are now suspicious and since that can be seen as 'terrorist' activity, you can be held without a lawyer, or charges, for an indefinite amount of time.
Does that sound like America to you? Sounds like the old Mother Russia or the 3rd Reich.
I'm not even from the US and am so totally against this "ACT". It's terrible that the terrorists have beaten the US of A and they don't even know it.
Our way of life has changed and we fear anything and everyone now.
Der Tod ist der einzige Weg hier raus!
How ironic it is that a law which allows the government to keep track of reading habits (let alone our surfing habits), is called a Patriot Act.
Please refer to the new government handout, provided by the Ministry of Truth: http://www.newspeakdictionary.com/ns-dict.html
I think the "essential" and "temporary" parts are especially poignant in this case, as is this great quote:
Not since Marie-Antoinette played milkmaid has looking simple and honest been so fake and complicated.
The FBI has been used to abuse power before. Ever here of this really nice old man by then name of J.Edgar Hoover? Power like this is meant to ensure continued power. Ever check out a book on kama sutra at the local library for you and the Mrs? Better hope you don't run for public office if someone finds out about it. They'll call your wife a whore and you'll be a pedophile (simple leaks to the media get blown well out of proportion with their creative impulses). Ever check out any book that is critical of a sitting president or a party just because you were curious? Well your political opponent will say, once the info is leaked to the media, that you're an anarchist hell bent on destroying our way of life. This power infringes on the freedom to think. Do you want to research Vietnam's alternate theories, the ones that Uncle Sam says are bogus? Would you still do so under public scrutiny? The moment we let our private thinking become legal fodder for our government is the day that we can no longer honestly ascend to the ranks of a government official. Slippery slope indeed.
Kerry and Edwards voted for the temporary (5 years) version of the Patriot Act that is set to expire in Kerry's term as President. It was inacted as an emergency measure with the intention it would expire when the crisis was over or at least more managable with existing laws.
Both Kerry and Edwards have stated they want, support and will work toward making sure the Patriot act does in fact expire when it's supposed to.
However, because they will not be enacters of new law in their role as President/Vice President (unlike our present administration) they will need the support of Congeress to not get this law renewed when it comes up for vote.
So, along with my vote for their ticket, I will also be voting a stright Democratic ticket for Congress as well.
Right or wrong this is just my opinion and I'm not looking to Flame or Troll. It's just my honest opinion.
Now come on. You know very well that there's a huge difference between what is happening in America today and what the Soviets did.
Sure. However:
I don't know about you, but I do not have any fear of being woken up in the middle of the night, thrown into a van, and being shipped off to some Siberian gulag just because I surfed the wrong website last night.
Well depending on your nationality, maybe you should... somewhat... See http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/arar/
>>>>some Siberian gulag
No, the Americans keep their gulag in Cuba.
I gather from your post that you are from the USA and probably do not a member of the 1200 people that were detained without trial after the 9/11 bombings. And lucky for you you don't live outside the USA, because you could end up in Guantanamo bay
Disclaimer: This opinion was created without the use of any facts
Old TJ was more irate over the charges of sacreligious materials (more complete quote below). Quoting him out of context is a bit of a cheap shot.
I am really mortified to be told that, in the United States of America, a fact like this can become a subject of inquiry, and of criminal inquiry too, as an offence against religion; that a question about the sale of a book can be carried before the civil magistrate. Is this then our freedom of religion? and are we to have a censor whose imprimatur shall say what books may be sold, and what we may buy? And who is thus to dogmatize religious opinions for our citizens? Whose foot is to be the measure to which ours are all to be cut or stretched? Is a priest to be our inquisitor, or shall a layman, simple as ourselves, set up his reason as the rule for what we are to read, and what we must believe? It is an insult to our citizens to question whether they are rational beings or not, and blasphemy against religion to suppose it cannot stand the test of truth and reason. --From In Freedom
"Abu Ghraib prisoners were abused, not tortured like they were when Saddam was in power. Their abusers should and will be punished. Their is a fine line between abuse and torture."
THe following items qualify as torture.
Women were raped, Men were raped, men had broomsticks and lightsticks shoved up their asses. 11 people died at least 9 of those were declared to be murder by the military medical examiners. People's legs were ripped open by dogs. People were smeared with feces and held in crucifiction poses for long periods of time. People were crucified on metal beds and jail bar for several days with handcuffs.
All that is detailed in the report put out by the army itself. God only knows what they left out. There are still thousands of pictures which have not been released because we don't really have free press in this country but the politicians who have seen them have described them as sickening. Rumsfeld used the word "sadistic".
Please read the report that the army put out and then go check out some foreign news sources. You are clearny not getting the entire picture from Fox News and Rush Limbaugh.
evil is as evil does
How did your Representative vote? Check here, or look on H5373 and H5374. (Don't know who your Representative is? Here.)
Those who changed their vote (and the discussion about "when are you going to close the damn vote, you've kept it open past its deadline!?!") are on H5373. Harris, Cubin, Gilchrest, Bereuter, Davis (VA), Bilirakis, Kingston, Smith (MI), Bishop (UT), Wamp, Tancredo, and Musgrave all changed their votes from "yes" (in favor of adding the Freedom to Read Amendment) to "no."
(Amusingly, at one point in the Record, Rep. Nadler acridly remarks, "How much time has elapsed on this vote? Are we going to hold this vote open until enough arms are twisted?")
Try reading it yourself:
Section 215 gives the goverment additional powers to look at third party records for individuals (libraries, medical, universities, internet, etc.) and even force the third party to hand them over. Under the new power, the government no longer not needs to show probable cause (as required by the Fourth Amendment) or even that they are related to criminal activity. It also removes the requirement that the government demonstrates the person under suspicion is an "agent of a foreign power". There is also reduced judicial oversight in that the government only needs to swear to a judge that the search meets the statute. They don't actually have to demonstrate it or show any evidence of it, plus the judge doesn't even have the authority to reject the warrant, which really makes it a pointless exercise. Finally, the third party is prohibited from notifying the person under surveillance.
Section 213 expands the government's power to search private property without notification, and it can be done as part of normal criminal investigations without having anything to do with terrorism.
Section 218 expands the government's surveillance power to secretly conduct secret searches (physical or wiretaps).
Section 214 also expands the Fourth Amendment exception by including the "addressing" of communications
From Part 1 section 6:
And from section 8:
I'm not trying to invoke Godwin here by comparing the PATRIOT act or its supporters in particular to counterparts in 1930's Berlin. I'm really not. It is merely an historical example of an otherwise benign government transmuting into something fearsome, terrible, and utterly despicable under the guises of 'necessary', 'security', and 'expediency'. I maintain that "It won't be abused" is not sufficient protection for citizens from their government. Not now, not ever. And it is for that reason that I find the arguments for the PATRIOT act, even moreso than the act itself, to be of greater danger to the US populace than every terrorist who lives today. The moment the people truly believe that "It can't happen here" is usually followed by the moment when they find themselves to be totally screwed.
Dyolf Knip