Slashdot Mirror
Computer Gaming PCs Try To Stack Up To Consoles
bippy writes "RedAssedBaboon has what I think is the first review of a computer to feature the much lauded DISCover technology. DISCover basically turns a computer into a gaming console, allowing you to drop a PC game into a system and play it immediately on your television. The site reviews a new DHS (Digital Home System) by Alienware which will feature the technology and is due out next month. The article ends with this interesting comment: 'It's high time that the computer stop lurking in the shadows of dusty computer desks in forgotten rarely-used bedrooms. If PC gaming is going to survive it's going to have to do so in the well-lit family rooms and dens of America right along side the GameCube, PS2 and Xbox -- and this looks like a great way to start.'" We previously discussed the DISCover 'Drop And Play' PC gaming system over on Slashdot Games.
My monitor is bigger than my TV...
PC gaming is doing well enough in Japan. Try this for exmaple or the very popular Ys series. Why do you expect the Japanese to suck down crappy American games when they can make their own? The Koreans are nuts about American RTSes, but the Japanese have their own industry and titles.
American PC games don't do well in Japan. My girlfriend (as a side job) translated Northland and Deus Ex 2 for Japanese release. They didn't do well nor were the games really that good.
"There is no time, sir, at which ties do not matter," Jeeves, (Jeeves and the Impending Doom)
...with Rendezvous. I want my mac to be my "digital hub". I should be able to play music and movies on it from anywhere in my home, likewise with games. I see no reason why game controllers can't be made wireless and why the video signal can't be sent to my TV on the otherside of the room or house. All the pieces are here, someone just needs to "make it work". Just imagine pluggin in your Mac/PC and having it autodiscover your TV, Phone, Stereo via wireless ethernet and bluetooth etc etc.
Someday guys, someday............
I already play all my sports game on my TV. I have a video card that supports TV out and it works great. I bought four of these controllers and I find it to be much better than any of my consoles. I'm quite sure that lots of other slashdotters are already doing the same. This piece of hardware, like most Alienware products, is also way overpriced however I guess it would be perfect for people that aren't into building there own PCs.
Ok. I like pc games typically better than console games.
But, the reason I haven't bought a new pc game in over 6 months is because I'm sick and tired of having to upgrade something on my computer. I love consoles. I can get any new games that come out. I can play them without worrying about performance. It is really just that simple. And for the price of a new video card to play the latest pc games, or a new motherboard+cpu, I can quickly buy the latest console and a game or two.
That is the biggest hurdle for pc games. If they could come up with a standard where they say all new games must be playable on this minimum requirements without the minimum moving every 3 months then they might start doing better. They could quite easily control the industry to say the games must work on X until Y date when we upgrade the minimum standards)
Just my opinion.
It is already very easy to plug your computer into a television via S-Video cable (with a decent graphics card, of course). But, as the article states, you 'need' to have your computer in your living room (mine are) to connect to the TV.
At least in my situation, my computer monitor has much better resolution than my 27" TV, and has the ability to play games, audio, and dvd's. Not to mention it has a 5.1 sound system with some nice speakers, about the same or better quality than my stereo that's hooked up to my TV. I prefer watching movies and playing games on my PC rather than my TV, unless I want to fall asleep watching something, in which case I switch my TV to 'Input 2' coming from my PC.
Also, the DISCover system includes wireless keyboard and mouse, but how comfortable is it to sit at your couch with a keyboard and mouse on a coffee table? A computer desk is designed to make the usage of these devices more comfortable... not to mention you are only ~12 inches from your high-res monitor (more visible detail/clarity) rather than several feet from a television. Does anyone here play FPS games on their TV (with keyboard and mouse)? If so, explain the setup you have, and why you like it over a computer setup.
I have stopped playing console games altogether, even though I have all the major systems. It's nice to not have to deal with Windoze to try and get your game working (drivers, patches, etc), but when it does work, it's a much better experience on a PC. This is just my opinion, of course, and I am sure I'll get flamed for it!
PC games will do just fine, because I'll be damned if I will pony up the money for any game that features cute characters or green blood.
This article reminded me of Gentoo Games, the Gentoo Linux sideproject that distributed Linux compatible games as LiveCDs; essentially achieving the same thing as the DISCover system. Unfortunately, gentoogames.com seems to have become a blank website, so the project may have died.
I'm not really following how this DISCover system works. (I only skimmed the article, sorry) It says it uses a custom BIOS and scripts, and it's being used on a Windows Media Center powered machine. So does it fire up a game when you insert a CD while WMC is running and just run some scripts to install it, or does it use some magic to get the game running from boot? I assume this system still requires a Windows install in some way, and thus wouldn't be a viable solution for Linux gaming?
I've been waiting for this technology to come out ever since I saw it at E3. It will finally turn my Wintendo into a full game box. I buy a game, drop it in, and play. New patch comes out, it's taken care of for me. The less time I spend fixing my PC gaming box, the more time I spend playing. Some people get a kick out of administering their equipment, I get a kick out of getting something done. Thats why a Powerbook running OS X is my main system for production work, and not Linux or Windows. I also know Macs are not good for gaming due to the current market of not releasing hybrid games, hence keeping a Windows box around. Linux does well at serving stuff, so it sits in my basement, waiting for me to run emerge -U world from time to time, but otherwise just working beyond my initial setup.
I don't intend to play games on my TV. Partially because I don't own one, but instead own a 27 inch monitor for TV watching. But I am highly interested in the tech behind it to just let me play.
On PC this isn't a problem (Ion Storm just released a patch for it), however, on console it's a BIG problem. You used to never be able to fix the problem, but I do know that it's somewhat possible now. The problem is that while IS could come up with a patch in a heartbeat, it's up to MS to let them release it over their Live service to fix the problem. But they don't want to let them even if it would satisfy the people that bought the game. Also, what about the consoles that don't come with built-in hard drives? PS2 has one available as a purchase, but out of the box, no drive. The 'Cube hasn't had any sign of a storage device release. The one hope I had for it, which was the SD card adapter is cancelled because of the limited way the memory slot works. But yes, I agree with you somewhat. For the most part, consoles 'just work', and I like that about them. But when they don't just work.. it's a bitch to fix.
Unless you happen to have a 50" Samsung DLP TV with DVI inputs that runs at 1280x720. I've got a HLN507W which is a beautiful display. If I could just get a PC that's quiet enough for the living room without spending $2000, then I'd be set. Note: I'm not affiliated with Samsung, I just love this TV. It also virtually eliminates the glare from those "well lit living rooms".
- Think of it as evolution in action -
I don't get this. PC gaming is already extremely mainstream and is far from a niche market. Even my freaking grandparents are PC Gamers, and it isn't like console games are grossly outselling PC games. The comment about bring PC gaming out to the family room instead of in a "computer room" is moot, who really cares if you play games in the family room or not? I am sure the gaming companies don't. Another point that has already been made by many slashdotters is that PC games are superior graphically on a monitor than on your standard TV.
This is just Alienware trying to make a demand for something when there really is none.
the price is high, and i always build new pcs myself (theres no fun in just-plug-iit-in-and-it-works, not that that happens to often). but still, I prefer pcs over consoles because of the hackability. im not talking about stealing passwords hacking, im talking about make something unreal hacking; modifying the games to make them more fun
gameshark doesnt count.
Nathan Friedly
all of our home computer are in the areas where people live. 2 are in the lounge rrom for viewing DVDs, writing, gameing, browsing etc. We moved away from the TV as our central entertainemnt medium and now use our computers for a whole lot more of our recreational time, i.e. cold nights...
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Overall, 2003 U.S. sales of console games totaled USD 5.8 billion (186.4 million units) while computer games accounted for USD 1.2 billion (52.8 million units) in sales.
You'll have to explain to me the point where you absolutely require a TV to use a couch, or where you absolutely require a console to use a game controller. I sit at the couch and play computer games all the time(well, less lately since I've been using the PC a lot less and cycling a lot more, but I still get a chance to post on slashdot or play games once in a while), using a gamepad.
Personally, I'm a fan of saitek controllers for the PC. Nicely designed; buttons are just mushy enough, plenty of heft to the controller itself, large enough for a grown set of hands, and nice control placement. Logitechs(at least the one I own, the Logitech wingman force feedback) suffer from cheap manufacture, like the analog controller knobs(which are just plastic, and only held on to the analog sticks with friction, and poor design, like the ill concieved throttle. My Microsoft Sidewinder isn't on the same level since it has no analog elements, but it's also a fine gamepad for games which suit it. Thanks to DirectInput, they'll all work perfectly in any game with configurable input.
As for the couch issue, spend a few bucks on a reasonably sized monitor(and while you're at it, an ATI all-in-wonder to add tuner support), and there should be no reason that your PC can't be a permenant fixture in your living room.
It's been a long time.
Mind you, that consoles will prevail this war. They are designed for gaming; small caches, wide/fast busses, unlike computers that are in fact designed for general purpose usage.
l , for those interested.
There's an article available on the subject here http://arstechnica.com/cpu/2q00/ps2/ps2vspc-1.htm
As a note; that article discusses the PS2 vs. the PC. Now, there's something else than MS cheap ass approach with a stripped down x86. And PLEASE note the specs. on video memory and processor speed for the ps2 and how well it still performs compared to new PCs. Splinter Cell: Pandora Tomorrow is beautiful.
Now, imagine the PS3...
All my PC-connected-to-TV is used for is emulating old consoles. I just have a couple of USB control pads and some nice emulators, some crappy software to provide an easy interface to it, and I can sit in my living room and play Super Mario Kart, Streets of Rage or one of many more games with my friends without having to have fifteen consoles all over the place.
The PC isn't good enough to emulate an X-Box, Playstation2 or a Game Cube but it can handle basically everything before that. Most games since the Playstation have been pretty useless and/or available on PC anyway...
Really? A HDTV monitor with the features I mentioned can be had for less than $2000. Add another $1000 for a decent home theater system supporting DD5.1 (that's upgradeable if you feel the need later -- ie, don't spend $3000 on a Bose when a $1000 Definitive + Denon system will sound better and be upgradeable in pieces), and $150 for an XBox, and you're at $3150. That's about the same price you'll pay for a high-end PC with a high-end video card and a nice VGA monitor (but your monitor is 4:3 and my TV is 16:9, so it's not a fair comparison). Now, let's look to the next generation. I'll spend $300 on the next XBox, while you'll spend $300 on a new video card, $300 on a new CPU, $300 on more/faster memory and a new motherboard to support your new CPU. Oops. Now you've spend $900 while I've spent $300. If you go out generation for generation, you're going to spend much more on upgrading your PC than I will on buying the new game consoles. My HDTV and home theater purchase was an upfront fixed cost, while you'll constantly be spending money on the latest and greatest PC hardware.
At some point, I'll end up replacing my TV, and you'll end up replacing your PC, but in the interrum my costs are much less than yours because I don't have to upgrade anything but the console when something better is released.
Up until last week, I never played a console since the NES years ago. I recently played some PS2 games and was actually shocked at the poor quality of the games and of the console.
The low resolution on the TV was the first thing that bothered me. Some ppl have pointed out that HDTV is a significant improvment, but a very high majority of people do not have one and will not be getting one for some time to come.
All the games I played seemed to be far behind any current PC game for graphics quality, but that's what you expect when you have to top your graphics quality off because your console's hardware is 3 years out of date. I was constantly annoyed by rendering artifacts and by the cheap looking surfaces that look like a college students GL project.
There is a reason why PC games have more complicated controls: The players want them. Most hardcore gamers will have lots of personalized controls setup because it's how they want it. Console games seem to be geared more towards the computer illiterate or beginner. Plug in and go! Their online subscription service is a tribute to that model.
Hope you didn't spend too much, seeing as you don't get 1080i.
For game play or any computer use, I'd take a 720p display over 1080i anyday. I'm pretty sure that display can scale it. The displays I've looked at didn't do too bad at scaling to 720p.
I really hope to get a 1080p display though. Some FP CRT sets can do it, but they are expensive, hopefully the LCOS sets coming in the next year or two will bring that price down significantly.
"Don't get 1080i" meaning?
Under the definition you're almost certainly using, practically nothing displays 1080i. With the exception of certain 1920x1200 LCD displays, plasma and LCD screens don't have 1920 horizontal pixels, and most TV-purposed displays don't have 1080 vertical pixels. With the exception of certain large multisync computer CRTs, you can't find a 27+" CRT that has 1920 phosphor triplets (horizontal resolution) across the screen, and the vast majority of the consumer HDTV displays can't even handle 720p content natively (hello flickering interlaced computer desktops!). The vertical phosphor placement is similarly restricted, but even more difficult to discuss based on the varying geometries used in various tubes.
So his television deinterlaces 1080i content and scales it down by a factor of 1.5. Big deal. Unless you've hacked together a frankenstein 21-25" CRT HDTV or spent 5 figures on a studio monitor, you're making similar compromises.
Also, before you get too smug, TVs based on TI's xHD3 will arrive this fall and display 1080p natively. On a 70" screen. For an ungodly wad of cash, it's true, but still in only 4 figures.
I have a Monivision 32" HDTV and a Samsung HLM507W HDTV. The DLP HDTV is my true "convergence" display, which serves as a PC/DVD/HDTV display. The Monivision display is a PC/SDTV display, but it makes an AWFUL PC display at 1024x768, and an iffy PC display at 800x600. I bought it because it shows a signal the way 95% of people still watch it, and because a CRT does a much better job of masking the flaws of SDTV sources (vs. HD plasma or LCD or DLP or what have you).
Given the fact that this article is discussing computer games, I can't believe that you've chosen to make snide comments about an interlaced video format. Those of us who tried interlaced desktops and game resolutions back when CRTs were small, expensive and 1280x1024 was a stretch can tell you about the horrible flickering problems that appear in stills or when fine recurring patterns pop up that still make me want to claw out my eyeballs.
...If PC gaming is going to survive ...
At what point did it look like it was dying?
BeauHD. Worst editor since kdawson.
I'm primarily a PC gamer (or perhaps getting to be more of an ex-gamer, I haven't been really addicted since the original Unreal Tournament, heh), but a friend of mine purchased a Gamecube and 4 controllers. Playing Mario Party or some such game together, guzzling down some beers before going out is simply great.
Is there any game on the PC that can be operated by 4 people, with only one machine? I doubt it. Two tops. The controls are hardly complex (which may be a good thing %-)... ) but it sure is fun. The PC is great if you're one person/PC, playing FPS/RTS/whatever. But for multiplayer without everyone bringing their own machine, it plain sucks.
Kjella
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings