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Former Windows Chief on Microsoft Vs. Open-Source

prostoalex writes "Brad Silverberg, former chief of Microsoft Windows division, who left the company in 1999, is being interviewed by the Milestone Group, on Microsoft specifically, and the software venture capital world in general (Silverberg is currently working as managing partner for Ignition Partners). He provides an interesting viewpoint on Microsoft's understanding of open source: 'I don't think they have figured that out yet, I think that is clear. They are struggling with not so much open source, per se, but rather they are no longer the low price solution. In the past Microsoft was the low cost solution and Microsoft was then competing and attacking expensive proprietary systems from below. Now for the first time the tables are turned and it's Microsoft that's being attacked from below by a lower price solution. Microsoft needs to figure out how it can demonstrate better TCO to justify its higher prices. Another aspect to that, which is an area I think Microsoft is also struggling with, which is when you are as successful and dominant as they are, how do you continue to foster that ecosystem? What really propelled Microsoft Windows success was an ecosystem that they created that allowed other people to benefit from your success. Actually your success was really a side effect or byproduct of their own success.'"

15 of 387 comments (clear)

  1. Let TCO wars begin.. by silverbolt · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Microsoft is likely to agressively start publishing TCO comparisons in various media outlets. Like all statistics, TCO numbers can be fudged too, but most customers will still believe whatever numbers are pushed to them. Open Source folks need to go out there also and start publishing their cost ownership numbers, with real life examples.

    1. Re:Let TCO wars begin.. by golge011 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Todays TCO comparisons are useful only to cloud comsumers mind. There should be a better and preferably an objective way of comparing OS costs. Maybe when OpenSource solutions become much more mainstream, a way to compare will be found. But till that time the company who has more resources will win.

      (Or are there such methods, or standards?)

      --
      Not a native English speaker.

  2. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  3. Re:TCO is bogus by darth_MALL · · Score: 4, Interesting

    How would you challenge TCO being a real thing? Evidence please. Most companies still have a bottom-line to account for; heck, even families do. TCO revolves around money. That's not made up, I'm afraid.

  4. Two points: by Bold+Marauder · · Score: 5, Interesting
    In the past Microsoft was the low cost solution and Microsoft was then competing and attacking expensive proprietary systems from below. Now for the first time the tables are turned and it's Microsoft that's being attacked from below by a lower price solution.


    That is certainly true, but there's also a pscyhological dynamic as well. In the past (up until 1995) to some degree Microsoft was seen in two ways - the underdog (compared to the still-seen-as-evil IBM) and the platform of geeky freeware tinkerers. You used to have entire cottage industries that catered to the nerd contingent (eg JPSoft) of people who would sit at home
    and -on thier dos computers- see what they could contruct on their own and how they could push the performance of their 386sx computers.

    So, not only does Microsoft suffer from signifigantly higher TCO, but they also have lost any sort of "outsider" aka geek cred that they may have had pre-1995.

    I believe that this, along with the ill-will from Microsoft's more famous stumblings (eg, crushing netscape) have gone a long way to erode any kind of good will that computer users may have once had for them.

    What really propelled Microsoft Windows success was an ecosystem that they created that allowed other people to benefit from your success. Actually your success was really a side effect or byproduct of their own success. If they saw a way that they could develop your platform, make money for themselves and build big businesses.


    Actually, the reverse is true. By and large over the last 11 years -starting with the assimilation of disk compression and one or two symantec technologies- Microsoft has built their success on the successful deployment of third party technologies. The pattern has typically been that a signifigant technology will get a small foothold on the windows platform, and then when it starts to look promising, MS will either buy it out (in the case of many of its' office products) or clone it and make the original redundant (as was the case with netscape).

    So, yes, they 'allowed' other players to grow on their platform, but I think it was more a matter of fattening them up for the kill!
  5. Its whatever the kids use by nkntr · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Microsoft, the (one time) king of software, believes it's own BS. The fact of the matter is, whatever the kids (high school and college) use is where the industry is going. Forget TCO and stuff like this. Back in the days of Windows 3.1, you could easily make the installation disks, and give them to your school mates and buddies, and so all the local kids had a copy. Sure, Apple was in the schools, but kids couldn't afford Apple (Macintosh) OS, so people stayed with Microsoft. Well, hello XP and such, where each and every user has to register.. kids can't get their hands on it and pass it around and such anymore. Enter Linux... :) In my opinion, Linux is going to win because kids can get it cheap, College students can get it cheap, and it is the kids that drives the next wave of OS's, not the price or TCO.

    1. Re:Its whatever the kids use by nkntr · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I don't know. The reason I wrote my comment was due to observation. I was outside the computer science department at a local junior college and overheard a discussion.. one kid was asking another kid where he could get an os for the computer he had just pieced together. The knowledeable kid suggested Linux...free and cool and it's against the evil empire Microsoft. Well, as far as I know, they went away and loaded Linux. If it happens once, how many times does it happen? I just remember back when I was in college and having this exact same discussion about Mac and Windows, and I proved my point by making a set of disks and handing them the guy arguing with me and said "do that with a mac". Of course, he could not.

  6. It's wrong to say that you succeed with Microsoft by ShatteredDream · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Microsoft has expanded into many markets that they didn't need to. There is nothing wrong with that, and it is even pragmatic, but it is not conducive toward encouraging others to prosper with you. The truth is that Microsoft has merely allowed others to live. It's easier to let Adobe exist than to build a competitor to Photoshop, but Microsoft has the resources to do it.

    Look at how with Longhorn they're systematically attacking Macromedia by going after Flash and Shockwave. They're already trying to demolish Dreamweaver and if they take out Flash, Shockwave and Dreamweaver then Macromedia will be at best a shadow of its former self.

    The problem with Microsoft's attitude of "only the paranoid survive" is that it causes companies to see competitors where they don't really exist. Netscape didn't compete with Microsoft and a business agreement with Netscape probably would have worked better. Same thing with Java. Microsoft should have worked hard to be "the best Java platform provider, period." If Microsoft did that then no one would want to run Java on any OS other than Windows because anything else would be second rate.

    The only thing Microsoft needs now is an answer to IBM Global Services. Unfortunately they're too busy attacking the trees to realize that the forest is moving in to kill them. Linux is just a few trees in the greater non-Microsoft forest that IBM GS is the vanguard of. The stronger they get, the weaker Microsoft's position gets, and IBM is playing hardball with Microsoft here.

  7. Re:Bzzt by 4of12 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Was Microsoft *ever* the low price solution?

    Yes, they were.

    Back in the 1980's when they were first coming out.

    The new standard IBM PC with MS-DOS was a low price solution compared to the alternative of mainframe applications.

    Now, however, as hardward costs have continued to plummet, the market really wants the established technology to fade into an open standard with insignificant cost.

    The IT decision makers are asking themselves the hard questions like:

    If Ethernet and TCP/IP are open standards that have no cost and are essential to my business' operation, why then is it that Windows, a standard, and essential to my business' operation, has a cost associated with it?
    Rewrapping Windows with added new features to justify charging for it can only go so far. It's actually come a long way for MS, but arguably their "innovation in the OS" theme has been pushing the bounds of the credible for a while.
    --
    "Provided by the management for your protection."
  8. Developers! etc... :-p by Giant+Ape+Skeleton · · Score: 4, Interesting
    From the article:

    "What really propelled Microsoft Windows success was an ecosystem that they created that allowed other people to benefit from your success."

    I think that MSFT has in fact figured this out, and that's why they devote so much technology and marketing talent into Windows as a development platform.

    Say what you will about Windows as an operating system, but the application development toolchain is really, really slick.

    --
    The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits.
    1. Re:Developers! etc... :-p by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I've been programming for close to 30 years now, and I used to say the same thing about MS development platforms. Well I realized one day that I was spending 80% of my time coding around the crap that MS intentionally puts into their code to keep me from writing something that would compete with what they have. Sure if you are only writing front-ends to access db's or just duct taping objects together VB and Delphi are excellent tools (though I prefer writing the db front-ends as web applications myself because it offers a more heterogeneous approach.). As you grow more programming skills you will learn that their tools (although shiney and pretty up front) actually get in the way of writing code that will still be in use 10 or 15 years from now. Most business dont like the idea of having to completely rewrite code every 2 years because MS decides to change the API's so that developers have to go out and buy a new version of Visual C++. This whole backward compatability thing is a red herring if MS wouldnt keep changing their API's there would be no backward compatibility issue. Old programs would just not be able to take advantantage of new functionality.

  9. The story of Microsoft by fluor2 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Microsoft:

    1980: "Every house should have its own MS OS home-computer"
    1990: "Every house should have its own MS OS home-computer, and every company should have our server system"
    2000: "Every house should have its own MS OS home-computer, every company should have our server system, and every large-scale company should replace their existing UNIX systems with our stuff"

    Linux:

    2000: "Every company have our server system, and every large-scale company are replacing their existing UNIX systems with our stuff. Now how about this thought: Shouldnt every house have its own Linux home-computer?"

    Linux is allready there at all levels, except for the average home-computer.

  10. Re:huh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting
    Is MS not GAINING in the server market?

    No, just more servers sold! Look we already replaced 2 entire racks this year, not 1 server came with a preinstalled OS.

  11. Linux TCO by robertjw · · Score: 4, Interesting
    So, why don't we start an Open Source project that compares TCO of Windows vs. Linux and prove Microsoft wrong.

    Maybe there is a project of this type already out there, but I've never seen it.

    We could come up with a list of criteria to compare like:
    • Licensing costs
    • number of admins per 100 servers
    • Annual admin cost
    • Number of security patches per year and amount of time required to implement these patches
    • Availability/downtime
    • Number of users per server
    • Annual loses due to security (virus/spam/other) vulnerabilities
    • Hardware costs
    • Cost of all add on software (web servers, virus scanners, email servers, etc...)


    Anyone have any additional items?
  12. TCO is VERY real by micron · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I worked in the server division for a tier 1 hardware company for 8 years. I thought that TCO was a gimic that the marketing group came up with to justify our higher hardware costs.

    If I were in a shop with 5 servers that never failed, I might agree with your viewpoint.

    I now work in an environment that has servers in the 10's of thousands. TCO is VERY real.

    Ballpark numbers, a server that costs me $10k to purchase, may cost me $1k a month to run, not counting bandwidth. That $1k a month cost inludes power, cooling, admin overhead, tech overhead, etc.

    Over the four year life of the server, that means that 20% of the servers cost was in aquisition, and the server costs me $50,000 over the lifetime of the server. I am more interested in saving that back end cost of $40,000 than I am in the $10k. Knock $1k off that server price, not interested. Making sure that my techs never have to go out to the floor to change a part in 4 years, you have my attention.

    I would expect anyone who works in a large IT organization should know this. I am suprised by the amount of folks that do not.