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Microsoft Announces Dividend and Stock Buyback Program

neile writes "Microsoft just announced some of their plans for their large cash reserves. This includes moving to quarterly dividend payments of $0.08 a share (up from $0.16 annually), and a special one-time dividend of $3.00 a share in December. The Board of Directors also approved a four-year, $30 billion, stock buyback plan."

59 of 411 comments (clear)

  1. Outstanding by PhreakinPenguin · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I knew I bought their stock for a reason. I know I will get modded down for this or flamed but you'll never see a company like Redhat do this. Regardless of your opinion of MS, this is a good move to reward stockholders.

    --


    My sig of choice is Marlboro
    1. Re:Outstanding by Moofie · · Score: 2, Interesting

      So you think that buying stock in an unethical company is ethically neutral?

      I think you're wrong.

      --
      Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist!
    2. Re:Outstanding by pilgrim23 · · Score: 5, Funny

      I used to have Microsoft stock, but one day I opened my portfolio and all the certificates had turned blue with incomprehensible writing on them. When I called my broker he assured me everything was all right, it was all a part of doing business and that I should put the stocks back in my old shoe where I stored them. So...I rebooted...

      --
      - Minutus cantorum, minutus balorum, minutus carborata descendum pantorum.
    3. Re:Outstanding by tux_deamon · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The defining purpose of a public corporation isn't to maximize profit by any means necessary. We live in a society of laws and regulation. So no, not all corporations necessarily engage in unethitcal activity in pursuit of profit.

    4. Re:Outstanding by LordSah · · Score: 2, Insightful

      So, how many companies can you invest in, ethically?

    5. Re:Outstanding by scowling · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It is to do so by any legal means necessary, because failure to do so could set up the CEO and the Board as the defendants in a civil suit by the shareholders.

      One can be unethical and still remain within the law; my point stands.

      --
      www.kitchengeek.com -- Nosh for
    6. Re:Outstanding by hazem · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Because the defining purpose of any public corporation is to maximize profit for the shareholders, then by definition all public corporations behave unethically.

      It's actually to maximize value rather than profit.

      A company can sell all of its assets and fire all its employees and they'll show great profits for that quarter. Unfortunatley they did not maintain the value of the company.

      Acting unethically has an impact on the value of a company, but only as much as the society and pool of potential investors estimate that value. A company can only act as unethically as the society will allow.

    7. Re:Outstanding by tux_deamon · · Score: 3, Interesting

      No, most tech companies don't pay dividends, rather they reinvest their profits (would they ever see them) into R&D. Most tech shareholders bank on the speculation that the share value will increase as the company grows very quickly.

      Paying a dividend is usally something only mature companies do when growth slows down. Microsoft is one of the few tech companies that pays a large dividend.

    8. Re:Outstanding by tux_deamon · · Score: 2, Insightful

      No, this was your original point (nice try):

      Because the defining purpose of any public corporation is to maximize profit for the shareholders, then by definition all public corporations behave unethically.

      I submit that a corporation can behave ethically, and still maximize profit. Ethical behavior does not preclude the possibility of maximizing profit.

    9. Re:Outstanding by Vancorps · · Score: 2
      Case in point, Ben and Jerry's before they were bought out.

      They used research they funded to produce environmentally sound cartons and they backed countless charities. Might add they were vary profitable as well.

    10. Re:Outstanding by Nakito · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Pre-announcing a major ($3) dividend to be paid many months from now seems kind of funky. This will be immediately priced into the share value, of course -- every share is immediately worth that much more since everyone knows the distribution is coming. It's analogous to the "ex dividend" period of that occurs when a distribution is pending, except that the amount is huge and it's much longer in the future (almost half a year!). On top of that, a major buyback plan means that there will be sustained buying pressure on the stock.

      So call me cynical, but this is the first thought that came into my head: These events will cause all of the executives to hit the strike price on their stock options.

    11. Re:Outstanding by iamacat · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Nope, the purpose of a public corporation is to do what they told you they would do when you invested and let you benefit from your share of the profit, by dividends or growth of the share price. If you invest in a ship, they better sail to the indies and come back with the goods to sell. They don't have to abandon all their employees at destination and come back with cheaper natives to man the sales. That's just captain's greed.

      Being famous, Bill Gates could make serious money by literally screwing thousands of customers, male or female. Should shareholders require him to take his ass to Microsoft France and make money from what he is doing anyway.

    12. Re:Outstanding by tux_deamon · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Well, there are mutual funds dedicated to investing in socially conscious/socially responsible corporations. Your bank/investment advisor can probably give you some more information.

      But here's a directory worth looking at

      Interestingly, one of the pioneers of the movement is US VP Candidate Peter Camejo.

      The general idea is to invest in companies with good track records in the areas of human rights, labor, business ethics, the environment, etc.

    13. Re:Outstanding by Farce+Pest · · Score: 2, Interesting

      A lot.

      Bill Gates directly owns 1.12 billion shares (that's 1.12e9), and indirectly owns 428K shares, so his cash dividend will be somewhere between $3.36 and 4.64 billion.

      There are only (yeah, only) 10.8 billion shares outstanding, so overall this is a $32 billion dividend.

      I have to wonder if Bill plans to buy a country and retire there. I just hope it isn't the US.

      --
      This message has been scanned for memes and dangerous content by MindScanner, and is believed to be unclean.
    14. Re:Outstanding by letxa2000 · · Score: 5, Informative
      I'm no fan of Microsoft, but the CNN article said that Bill will be donating his one-off special dividend (about $4.5 billion) to the Bill Gates foundation.

    15. Re:Outstanding by nelsonal · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Usually companies that are over capitalized trade down after the dividend goes ex (meaning that you get the dividend if you own it on a certain day). People were generally already pricing the cash into the stock (usually looking at earnings over enterprise value (no cash). The buyback plan isn't really that much bigger than their old one that let shares grow slowly (figure that 1/3 or so of that will actually reduce shares--I'll let you do the math).

      --
      Degaussing scares the bad magnetism out of the monitor and fills it with good karma.
    16. Re:Outstanding by mdfst13 · · Score: 2, Informative

      Which is why Perot (who was similarly rich in the 70s) had Congress write a special tax exemption just for him one year.

      I'll let you in on a secret. The way to become rich as a businessperson is to begrudge every penny you spend (while still spending it if necessary). Everyone who owned a business that I have ever met with increasing income has been like that. If Bill Gates can avoid paying a billion or so in taxes, he will, even if only out of habit. The money might be irrelevant to you if you had his money; it won't be irrelevant to him. If it was, he would have left Microsoft long ago.

      It's also worth pointing out that giving money to a charitable foundation that you manage is not like giving it to charity. In fact, it can be a great way to maintain control of assets that you would otherwise lose. This is a large part of how the Ford family has maintained control of Ford. If they had passed it down through the generations, they would have lost half to taxes with each generation. As it is, the foundation just gives away its dividend income and holds onto the stock. Management of the foundation is kept within the family.

    17. Re:Outstanding by whorfin · · Score: 2, Insightful

      That may be a poor example of slaves, but there are plenty of reasons to dislike Walmart and their sort. Consider this: a typical wal-mart employee will still probably not have medical insurance, and will qualify for state assistance, which we all end up paying for anyway.

      Atlanta Journal Constitution article

      Effectively, our tax dollars are subsidizing Walmart, everywhere around the country. We get cheaper crap, but we pay higher taxes, and local/state governments go broke so that Walmart and their kin can have tidy profits.

      If this is happening to their regular employees, you can bet that worse is happening to their contractors, and worse for those in countries where they have arms-length dealing with businesses who are not legally obligated to any humane treatment of their employees.

      --
      Laugh while you can, monkey-boy!
    18. Re:Outstanding by hazem · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I agree it's a weak example. But slavery is not my point. I probably shouldn't have picked on Walmart either.

      The point I'm trying to make is that companies will only be as ethical as the people they are accountable to. That is the government, shareholders, and customers. As a group, the customers have the most strength, but not so much as individuals.

      The government has the strongest effect as an entity, as it has the force of law. But it also sets a pretty low bar for ethical behavior.

      The shareholders may be able to vote, but individual members have little effect unless they own a lot of shares. Those with ethical concerns about the company probably will chose to sell their shares if they don't have a strong enough voice for change.

      Customers as a group have a strong effect on the ethical behavior of the company, even though individual costomers have little effect at all. En masse, the customers can compel a company to change its operations and strive to be more ethical. Look at how Nike is working to improve conditions in the factories it contracts with. Everyone I know at Nike are nice people, but I imagine that things would not have changed without the large outcry from customers.

      So, while using slavery as an example was not a solid way to make my point, I think the point is still valid.

      As long as the customers don't care how they get a good deal, then the companies that sell them their products have little ethical incentive to make a change. Without an industry-wide push for ethics, then a company striving for more tethical behavior will be undercut by its less ethical competitors. Only with a large enough customer base that values ethics can a company be more ethical than its competitors and survive in the long term.

      But ultimately, if the customers, as a group, chose to purchase from companies who act in unethical ways, then they too are complicit in the unethical behavior. Many chose to simply remain ignorant than have to make difficult decisions that mean they may have to pay more for less-tainted/taint-free products.

      But, please don't paint me as a radical. I choose not to identify with any political party and strive to take positions based on the facts I can find, on each issue I'm faced with. I find, though, that I tend towards the libertarian, but I also believe there are certain economic truths that make certain social programs desirable.

      For example, suppose you have a lot of unemployed people. You can:
      1) ignore them
      2) give them money (welfare)
      3) invest in their eduction and the economy to build new jobs
      4) kick them out of town/state/country
      5) simply kill them

      Each, though, has a cost:
      1) they will probably turn to crime. You now have paid in whatever they have damaged, and in the costs to prosecute and put them in prison. Property values probably go down too.
      2) costs are self-evident
      3) costs are self-evident
      4) you have to pay to transport them and set up a guard-force to keep them out
      5) executioner costs, and difficult to measure costs in the impact on the moral fiber of the community

      In all 4 cases there is a cost to bear. It's a matter of picking the one that has the least cost and is most just. So, for me, I'd lean towards 3.

      Now I'm way off-topic!

    19. Re:Outstanding by amliebsch · · Score: 2

      One more thing: your last statement, effectively wishing for the murders of thousands of innocent workers and what I assume are your contrymen, is disgusting.

      --
      If you don't know where you are going, you will wind up somewhere else.
  2. hopes dashed by kippy · · Score: 4, Funny

    Crap, I was hoping for a Mars mission.

    1. Re:hopes dashed by LordSah · · Score: 2, Funny

      That would be so damned cool. Imagine the Slashdot responses...

      "Microsoft didn't have that idea first. They are just copying NASA. Embrace and extend, eh?"

      "They'll probably build the Mars rocket using their own 'standards' instead of open ones."

      "A morally defunct company announces a morally defunct Mars mission."

      "The rocket won't run Linux."

  3. seven businesses? by hostyle · · Score: 4, Funny

    "... and all seven of our businesses are growing," said Steve Ballmer

    Seven businesses? Can anyone enlighten me on this? OS, Software, Xbox, MSN, selling hotmail addresses to spammers?

    --
    Caesar si viveret, ad remum dareris.
    1. Re:seven businesses? by JamesP · · Score: 2, Funny

      You forgot AdTI and SCO...

      Oh, wait...

      --
      how long until /. fixes commenting on Chrome?
    2. Re:seven businesses? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      Sure thing:

      1 - Windows Client, including the Microsoft® Windows® XP desktop operating system, Windows 2000, and Windows Embedded operating system.
      2 - Information Worker, including Microsoft Office, Microsoft Publisher, Microsoft Visio®, Microsoft Project, and other stand-alone desktop applications.
      3 - Microsoft Business Solutions, encompassing Great Plains and Navision business process applications, and bCentral(TM) business services.
      4 - Server and Tools, including the Microsoft Windows Server System(TM) integrated server software, software developer tools, and MSDN®.
      5 - Mobile and Embedded Devices, featuring mobile devices including the Windows Powered Pocket PC, the Mobile Explorer microbrowser, and the Windows Powered Smartphone software platform.
      6 - MSN, including the MSN® network, MSN Internet Access, MSNTV, MSN Hotmail® and other Web-based services.
      7 - Home and Entertainment, including Microsoft Xbox®, consumer hardware and software, online games, and our TV platform.

      It's how the corporation is structured from a business perspective. http://www.microsoft.com/mscorp/articles/business. asp

    3. Re:seven businesses? by illuvata · · Score: 2, Informative
      since i wondered the same thing, i looked here

      Windows Client, including the Microsoft® Windows® XP desktop operating system, Windows 2000, and Windows Embedded operating system.

      Information Worker, including Microsoft Office, Microsoft Publisher, Microsoft Visio®, Microsoft Project, and other stand-alone desktop applications.

      Microsoft Business Solutions, encompassing Great Plains and Navision business process applications, and bCentral(TM) business services.

      Server and Tools, including the Microsoft Windows Server System(TM) integrated server software, software developer tools, and MSDN®.

      Mobile and Embedded Devices, featuring mobile devices including the Windows Powered Pocket PC, the Mobile Explorer microbrowser, and the Windows Powered Smartphone software platform.

      MSN, including the MSN® network, MSN Internet Access, MSNTV, MSN Hotmail® and other Web-based services.

      Home and Entertainment, including Microsoft Xbox®, consumer hardware and software, online games, and our TV platform.

  4. The Linux caveat..... by i_want_you_to_throw_ · · Score: 5, Informative

    Pay attention to the Forward Looking Statement..

    "the availability of competitive products or services such as the Linux operating system at prices below our prices or for no charge; "

  5. Got to be a catch in their someplace by Marxist+Hacker+42 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Oh yeah- the catch is Bill Gates Sr. He's always taught his son that vast accumulation of wealth was bad for the economy overall. The one redeeming factor of the Gates family has always been small estates (for the socioeconomic class they're in anyway- MY parents can't afford to give me a $100,000 loan to drop out of college and start a business). Maybe Bill Gates Jr. finally convinced his board what his father always taught him.

    --
    SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
    1. Re:Got to be a catch in their someplace by blackmonday · · Score: 4, Interesting

      His dad's a real interesting guy. He's a big supporter of inheritance taxes. if I remember correctly, he believes society got you where you are, so you need to give back when you go away.

    2. Re:Got to be a catch in their someplace by hamsterboy · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Sorry, but I've got to answer this, even though it goes against Slashthink.

      First, the "MY parents can't afford" hit was a bit below the belt. Have you ever borrowed a $20 from your parents? Probably because you needed/wanted it, and you didn't have it, right? Bill III did the same thing, only the scale is different - and he (a) made something on the money, and (b) paid it back in full, both of which I doubt about your parents' $20.

      Second, vast accumulation of wealth is not bad for the economy. The USA has the largest number of super-rich people in the world, and our per-capita GDP is also one of the largest. Where's the evidence that having super-rich people is harmful? In fact, show me a super-rich person who isn't funding economic growth (through stock purchases or direct loans to entrepeneurs).

      Hamster

    3. Re:Got to be a catch in their someplace by maxpublic · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You said he was only interested in accumulating wealth and power. I call bullshit.

      Yes, bullshit. He's also interested in rewriting history in his favor. The rich have been using gifts to charity to obscure past immoral and illegal actions for centuries; it's a timeless tradition stretching all the way back to the dawn of human history.

      Bill knows he isn't going to live forever and he wants people to worship at his grave site - much like loser geek Microsofties worship him now. The best way to do that is to buy absolution, a practice so common that at one time the Catholic church did a booming business in the sale of forgivenness.

      I seriously doubt ol' Bill is as interested in charity as he is in how he'll be portrayed once he's pushing up daisies.

      Max

      --
      My god carries a hammer. Your god died nailed to a tree. Any questions?
  6. Well, good. by scowling · · Score: 2, Interesting

    It doesn't make sense (to me) for a company to sit on top of massive cash reserves which represent, essentially, profit made by from the investment of stock buyers.

    But on the other hand, it wouldn't make sense for them to blow all of their reserves on dividends and buybacks. After all, not even Microsoft could be so arrogant as to blithely assume that they're going to keep making the kinds of profits they have been until the end of time.

    Um. Never mind.

    --
    www.kitchengeek.com -- Nosh for
    1. Re:Well, good. by Tackhead · · Score: 5, Insightful
      > But on the other hand, it wouldn't make sense for them to blow all of their reserves on dividends and buybacks.

      If, however, you're not sure whether President Bush will continue to tax long-term capital gains and qualified dividends at 15%, or President Kerry will demand that Congress undo the tax cuts, resulting in marginal tax rates on long-term capital gains of 20%, and all dividents at up to 39%, blowing some of those reserves on one-time dividends and buybacks over the next 12 months is a pretty good idea.

      Google for "special dividends", and you'll see that a lot of companies are doing this sort of thing (one-time "special" dividends of 5-10%, rather than merely raising their dividend by a few cents per share indefinitely) these days. You'll also notice that the trend started in the past six months -- right about the time people realized that the election is shaping up to be a statistical dead heat.

  7. Quarterly dividends better than Cisco by GPLDAN · · Score: 5, Insightful

    These are the actions of a company that realizes they are no longer a growth stock and is no longer looking to finance things via the market but rather reward consistent investors and enter into a "slow, continuous growth" mode instead of acting like a start-up. Investors will like quarterly dividends and the buyback will shore up the flagging stock price.

    Now, if only Cisco would buyback their stock (way too many shares floating), start expensing their options like a proper company and start paying some dividends, maybe they could be considered a grown-up stock as well.

  8. Panic! by nzgeek · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Man, I knew MS were worried about their lacklustre share price performance compared to Apple, but this is a desperation move if ever I've seen one.


    Basically, this is a quick way to pump up your share price by almost three bucks, only to have it plummet by the same amount when it goes ex-dividend.


    Either that, or they are trying to lose that cash-mountain to make it less of a target for something over the horizon that we haven't seen yet. Think patent infringement lawsuit or something like that.



  9. No doubt about it by tux_deamon · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Microsoft is great at one thing; making money. Unfortunately, being good at making money doesn't necessarily mean they have to be good at making software (at least considering how they've gone about it).

    1. Re:No doubt about it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I hate to break it to you, but MS got rich by selling a decent 'consumer' product for a decent price. People don't NEED to run Windows, they choose to do so because, unlike Linux, it was designed with your everyday user in mind. Sure it has bugs, but it's easy to use and the machines are cheap that run it.

    2. Re:No doubt about it by tux_deamon · · Score: 5, Informative

      I guess you missed the Microsoft Antitrust Trial that was in all the papers the last few years?

    3. Re:No doubt about it by YU+Nicks+NE+Way · · Score: 2, Insightful

      No. It was explicitly not a finding that there was any evidence that Microsoft had acquired its monopoly in operating systems illegally. That's an important point: governments break up illegally acquired monopolies, independent of whether it will harm the companies involved or not. Judge Jackson's decision overreached, in part, because he used the wrong standard for considering the costs of the breakup to Microsoft. Since the monopoly was not illegally obtained, its fruits weren't illegal. Only the fruits of the illegal commingling of IE with the OS could be taken by the court -- and the government wasn't able to show that any of those existed.

    4. Re:No doubt about it by NanoGator · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "No, it was found that Microsoft had become a monopoly by engaging in specific illegal acts that hurt their competitors."

      Wrong. MS was found guilty of trying to keep the monopoly, not create it. Simply put: MS did not have the capability to become a monopoly so fast without people wanting it first. Don't remember the wave of hype surrounding Windows 95?

      --
      "Derp de derp."
    5. Re:No doubt about it by NanoGator · · Score: 2, Interesting

      " Have you considered that they've strong-armed OEMs for years to include nothing but Windows?"

      They didn't strong-arm enough OEMs to make a monopoly out of it. Hence the ruling that they were guilty of trying to maintain the monopoly, but not in initally creating it. I guess few people remember the massive explosion of computers sold back in 95 shortly after the Windows 95 hype reached its climax.

      --
      "Derp de derp."
  10. Won't affect current reserves. by BigGar' · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I was thinking that I'd read that Microsoft was cleaning about 1 billion per month. If that's accurate and continues the stock buy back would not affect cuurent cash reserves only slow the rate it builds. That would result in a reserve growth of 18 billion over the next 4 years instead of 48 billion, while at the same time reducing the number of publicly held shares which will probably up the stock price.

    --


    Shop smart, Shop S-Mart.
  11. Well it makes me happy by tekunokurato · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I just won $100! I bet my buddy that they couldn't come up with a better investment than a direct financial return to stockholders, and I was right (he thought they were going to buy somebody big). The bet's been going since late winter when they announced they'd have a plan for their cash by mid-summer.

    It really is a reflection of their growth prospects. Until now their stock value was still banking on a good deal of growth, and this announcement makes it clear that they probably won't achieve that.

    Actually, an interesting stat is that something like only 15% of stock buyback approvals in major companies actually materialize into actual buybacks.

    1. Re:Well it makes me happy by tekunokurato · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Yeah, and I was worried about that one, but it definitely fell through, and good for ms that it did; SAP is very, very distant from what they are really good at. Complex crm implementations are not their bag!

  12. in effect, it's canceled by davidwr · · Score: 3, Informative

    It has the same effect as if the stock was bought back then the shares canceled. If I own 25% of MSFT, and MSFT buys back half of its outstanding stock from other people, I now own 50% of MSFT. I say "in effect" it's canceled because depending on where MSFT is incorporated, it may "hold" this stock as "treasury stock" so it can resell it later without "issuing" new stock. If it does not hold treasury stock, the stock is "canceled" and will have to be re-issued if MSFT wants to "sell" it.

    --
    Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
  13. Re:Who owns the bought-back stock. by nzgeek · · Score: 4, Insightful

    There is no feedback loop. They buy back your shares, you no longer own them, so yes MSFT owns another 0.0001% of itself.

    Yes, a company could theoretically own itself. Much like a million and one Mom-and-Pop corner stores own themselves.

    The sharemarket exists as a way to distribute risk. A long time ago (in a galaxy fa...) MSFT said: "Hey we have this great idea to make software to sell to computer users, and we need money to do it. Rather than take out a bank loan, how about you guys (Mr and Mrs Mutual Fund Owner) shoulder some of the risk? If it works out, we'll both make lots of money!"

    If MSFT happens to make so much money that they can afford to buy the risk back from Mr and Mrs Shareholder, then more power to them. This is not the way it happens in reality though, because the risk always exists, and if MSFT happens to go down the toilet, they don't want to shoulder the entire burden. Better that Mom & Pop Shareholder take some of the pain too.

    Strange isn't it that most Fund Managers and Brokers never ever mention the 'Risk' part of the equation eh? They always talk about 'equity' and 'investment'.

    I'll say it again: the sharemarket is simply a way of distributing business risk. If you can't take the risk, invest in fixed income. Not as sexy and not as much possible upside, but not as much risk.

  14. 401ks and mutual funds by Thumpnugget · · Score: 5, Insightful

    seriously how many /.actually have MS stock.

    There is a very good chance that anyone with mutual fund investments in growth funds that deal in mid-to-large-cap stocks will own a bit of Microsoft. Since I'm guessing there are quite a few people who are gainfully employed reading Slashdot that are probably younger, probably have a 401k, and probably are choosing longer-term investment options to grow their money, I would bet a significant percentage of (the gainfully employed) Slashdotters own a chunk of Microsoft, whether they realize it or not.

    I can't give you exact figures, but I know that I indirectly own a little chunk of Microsoft and I'm guessing a lot of other people here do too.

    --
    Free yourself. Everything else will follow.
  15. Why not.... by carlos_benj · · Score: 4, Funny

    Hey, why don't they pay out that promised money for forwarding all those emails to Bill could test that email tracking software? I mean, I musta sent that thing to several hundred people expecting to reap big cash rewards and I haven't even seen a dime!

    --

    --

    As a matter of fact, I am a lawyer. But I play an actor on TV.

  16. Re:First Flame by AT · · Score: 4, Informative

    Huh? Most public companies take their profits and reinvest them in the company. This may or may not help the company grow and reward investors by making the company more valuable. Some companies pay out dividends (i.e. pay out profits to investors), usually because the company is not easily able to expand so growth is not an option. This is commonly seen in large companies in mature fields; think heavy industry, mining, railways, etc..

    Redhat most definately does not give their profits to their investors; they are focused, like most tech companies, on growth, so they reinvest it in the company.

  17. The question is, who owns the company? by Engineer-Poet · · Score: 4, Insightful
    A long time ago (in a galaxy fa...) MSFT said: "Hey we have this great idea to make software to sell to computer users, and we need money to do it. Rather than take out a bank loan, how about you guys (Mr and Mrs Mutual Fund Owner) shoulder some of the risk?
    The partnership model (essentially, a corporation without the legal features of limited liability and tradable shares) has a far longer history than banks.
    Yes, a company could theoretically own itself. Much like a million and one Mom-and-Pop corner stores own themselves.
    No they don't. Every one of those stores is owned by people. A corporation can own shares in other corporations, but there are limits to the depth you can nest "holding companies"; ultimately the ownership devolves to individuals, trusts (under the control of individuals), and the like.

    If MSFT buys back shares, then some people who once had shares have cash instead and the remaining people own a bigger fraction of the company. It's like some of the owners of a partnership allowing another partner to cash out, paying her off from the assets of the business.

  18. Good news by ektor · · Score: 3, Insightful

    This is great news for Microsoft. It means it's going to keep focused on its current businesses and not do any big crazy move like buying SAP, Disney, Sun or something stupid like that.

    Most boards with that much money at their disposal would be tempted to get themselves on the headlines but the Microsoft leadership has always been sensible.

  19. I'm not an economist but... by Vellmont · · Score: 3, Insightful

    This seems like just a way to make the stock price rise. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but:

    1. Give away a big one time dividend (stock is immeidately worth that much more/share).

    2. Buy back your shares, increasing demand for them, thus increasing the value.

    3. Buy back your shares, creating less total shares (since I'd assume the shares would no longer be outstading shares and not traded), thus increasing the value of each share.

    It's interesting, but kinda weird. As another poster said, they couldn't figure out what else to do with the big pile of money they had sitting around.

    --
    AccountKiller
    1. Re:I'm not an economist but... by mdfst13 · · Score: 3, Informative

      1. No, it doesn't make the stock worth more, as it doesn't increase the assets or income of the company. In fact, once they pay the dividend, it makes the stock worth less (the company's assets are reduced).

      2 & 3. No, a buy back cancels itself out. It reduces the assets of the company (cutting the stock price) while decreasing the number of shares of stock (increasing the stock price). The two effects exactly cancel each other.

      The only way that either increases the stock price is by removing the risk that the company will go bankrupt and lose all that money. Once it is distributed, the company can no longer spend the money. As such, any increase in the stock price is saying that Microsoft is likely to become a money losing proposition. As a result, the stock should drop less than $3 per share, but it should still drop.

  20. Re:Dividend tax law by donutello · · Score: 2, Informative

    Charitable donation does NOT absolve you of paying tax on the income you donated.

    That's not quite right. When you donate an amount of money to a charity you are absolved of all tax on that amount. However, your total tax savings are only equivalent to your marginal tax rate.

    In other words, when you donate $100,000 (say) to charity, and your marginal interest rate is 17%, you save $17,000 in taxes but you're still out the $100,000 you donated so you have an effective loss of $83,000.

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    Mmmm.. Donuts
  21. Re:Discounts court cases and Linux by jmorris42 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    > This basically says the future looks bright ahead.

    No it doesn't. I'd say it is a combination of many of the reasons already discussed and one that hasn't

    1. MSFT stock has been dead in the water for several years.

    2. Microsoft is transitioning from growth stock to stable megacorp.

    3. But my fav is this line of reasoning. It is a forgone conclusion that sooner or later a major destructive Outlook/IE worm is coming. Something along the lines of a Warhol worm with a destructive payload. If a script kiddie doesn't do it Al Queda will. On that day, a $60B cash horde goes from a club to threaten competitors with to a siren call for trial lawyers that hasn't been heard since the heyday of the tobacco lawsuits. Imagine the Fortune 500 (ok, 499) joining into a Class for the mother of all class action lawsuits.

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    Democrat delenda est
  22. Pay attention to the backstory..... by blackhedd · · Score: 2, Insightful

    This move was not entirely unexpected, you always give the investors' money back to them if you can't find anything better to do with it. Microsoft has always been an extremely disciplined purchaser of companies (you know what I mean if you've been f****d by them). What this is saying is that there are no really good opportunities at MSFT's current scale. It also means, if you're paying attention, that the center of gravity of tech investment (eventually becoming innovation) is moving elsewhere... FOSS is driving a secular change in our industry.

  23. Re:First Flame by michael_cain · · Score: 4, Informative
    Most public companies take their profits and reinvest them in the company.

    Historically, MOST large companies (eg, those in the S&P 500) regardless of industry pay a dividend on the order of 4% per year. Earlier in the 20th century, dividends averaged as high as 6-7%. Recently the average has dropped to 2-3%, which is a historical low. The tech companies that have gotten so big so fast in the last 20 years and still pay a tiny dividend are an exception, not the rule. Those companies have now reached a scale where it is unrealistic to expect them to be high-growth businesses (on a percentage basis), and are struggling to adjust to the fact that they are now "mature" firms.

    Microsoft seems to be making the adjustment somewhat more quickly than the other new tech giants. Realizing that rapid share price appreciation was probably gone for good, they quit issuing options to the employees and now give limited stock grants. Realizing that they have pissed off a lot of shareholders by accumulating $60B in cash that they can't seem to use, they are issuing the one-time special dividend and increasing their annual dividend (although it will still be on the order of only 1%). I suspect that the stock buy-back is aimed more at trying to increase the share price for those thousands of disgruntled employees holding worthless options than anything else -- buying shares is no better "investment" than using the money internally, something they don't seem to be able to do, but it does have financial effects.

  24. Re:First Flame by jaoswald · · Score: 2, Informative

    In theory, yes, but only in theory. A share in a corporation represents fractional ownership, but an individual shareholder can't exchange his share for that fraction of company assets. The best he could do is vote for directors who promise to auction off the company and give the proceeds to shareholders; it's quite rare that a publically traded company goes through that.

    In practice, that share has monetary value because of two possibilities:

    1) The company will distribute a portion of its profits as dividends. You own a fraction of the company, so you get a fraction of the profits. Just like owning your own company, but without the hassles of sole proprietorship.

    2a) Someone else will buy the share from you. Now, this someone else is motivated by possibility #1, perhaps in the distant future

    OR

    2b) In principle, even if dividends were not being paid, a person or corporation with enough resources could buy a majority of the shares and either begin paying dividends, OR, take the company private or as a subsidiary, and take the profits or liquidate assets that way.

    2B is usually just a theoretical floor to a stock's value when the possibility of dividends is still remote. I.e., why a "growth" company losing tons of money doesn't immediately go to zero stock price. In a bull market, the price is kept up by 2A, otherwise known as the "greater fool theory."

  25. Re:Who owns the bought-back stock. by Sinterklaas · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Yes, a company could theoretically own itself. Much like a million and one Mom-and-Pop corner stores own themselves.

    That is complete and utter nonsense. Buying back stock means that the value of the company and the number of investors is reduced, but the investors that remain still own the entire company. Let's give an example:

    5 equivalent stocks are out there. The company is worth 5 million, so each stock is worth 1 million. The company now buys back 4 stocks for 4 million. The result is that the remaining stock is now worth the same as the company: 1 million. The company could buy back the last stock as well, but only by liquidating (selling all assets, thus going out of business). Another possibility is that the people who run the company use their own money to buy the remaining stocks, which would make them owners just like a Mom-and-Pop corner store. However, even then the company doesn't 'own itself', it just happens to be that the owners also run the company.

    If MSFT happens to make so much money that they can afford to buy the risk back from Mr and Mrs Shareholder, then more power to them.

    The reason that they are giving one-time dividends and buying back stock is actually that they make too little money. Let me explain: In the world of money, ROI is everything. Making 1 million on an investment of 1 million is good, making that same amount after investing 1 billion is not so good. Now, if a company has earned a lot of money in the past, but can't use this money to generate new profits, the value of the company becomes less and less. The stock is worth a lot (because of all the money in the company's coffers), but the profit is marginal. This makes investors very unhappy (unless the stock is increasing in value, but that is no longer a given for MS, since they are transforming from a growth stock to an income stock).

    A way to fix this is to simply give the money to investors (one-time dividends). This effectively decreases the value of the company, resulting in a better profit per invested dollar (but not per share). A second possibility is to buy back stocks. This is very similar to a one-time dividend, since company money is given back to investors. However, the dividend per stock also increases, raising the value of stocks. Some more info on the advantages and disadvantages of stock buybacks.