Slashdot Mirror
eBay Scam Victim Strikes Back
jcomeau_ictx writes "Justin Spence doesn't take lightly being scammed out of $1155 for a laptop he never received. The seller, Salvatore Wise, Jr. of Philadelphia, is growing openly more hostile over the webpage Justin produced exposing his and his wife Michelle Heinlein's scams to the world. So far Justin has documented $6841.00 total lost to this crook, but the total is more likely in the tens of thousands. " As it goes along it just gets more and more bizarre. My favorite part is when "Sal" says that all the earlier messages were sent from a different Sal, but you can tell them apart because the true Sal always writes his emails in italics.
Has anyone heard of the P-P-P Powerbook? Its another case of the scammer being scammed, and quite amusing. Theres a full list of correspondence between the scammer and seller, complete with photos and videos. Enjoy.
Salvatore Wise, Jr., or someone going by that alias for several years at least (verified since 1997), has taken tens of thousands, and perhaps hundreds of thousands, of dollars from eBay shoppers. Whether or not he does other types of online trading is not yet known to me.
"How could that be possible?", you must be asking. Surely there are safeguards against that kind of thing, right? Yes, there are. But Sal has been ingenious in finding workarounds for those safeguards. See, for example, how Justin Spence, a shrewd businessman himself who was initially suspect of Sal's integrity, was conned into finishing the deal. Sal doesn't accept credit cards nor Paypal in any form; he wants his money in checks, cashiers checks or money orders. And he often makes believe he hasn't received your payment when in fact he's already cashed it.
Sal's accounts have all been terminated, of course, but he always seems to have one more on the back burner he can use in a pinch. Lately, his wife Michelle Heinlein appears to be actively involved, since in at least one case a check made out to her name was cashed, in one of the scams. Notice the same trading pattern as Sal's former username needforspeed97, starting off good then, once he gets a good reputation, cashing it in for a few thousand dollars before eBay kicks him off. I'm pretty sure this guy Robin, needforspeed, is the same dude too, but Sal of course denies it.
I'll post more info as I can. Watch out for anybody on eBay from PA who sells high-dollar items. Sorry Pennsylvanians, but you've got a scoundrel in your midst. He lives at 1941 W. Passyunk Ave. in Philadelphia, but he sometimes sets his eBay "area" identity as Pittsburgh.
So if I know where he lives, why don't I just go break his legs? Believe me, I've thought about it, but I don't want to do something illegal that'll get me thrown in jail. Besides, he's threatened to shoot me if I come there. So if the threat turns out to be real, I'd either have to kill him or get killed myself, either of which has consequences I don't want to consider. And on top of all that, I'm a coward.
Well anyway, not to be outdone by Justin, I'm digging up my emails now too... here's the most recent thread which shows the same typing style (being very loose with that word here) as his recent threats to Justin. More to follow!
Wow, that was fast! Here he is again... it's after 2AM on the east coast, so he must be sweating bullets! Aren't you, Sal old buddy?
This is getting to be another blog in itself, so let's just follow the story in my existing blog, shall we?
Check this out.
http://www.ibnads.com/sal/salwise.html
or, you can realize that Microsoft isn't quite ALL bad.
TerraServer for the listed address.
Public domain pictures courtesy of the U.S. Geological Survey.
Don't do anything foolish, stupid, or illegal with this information, just beware that the internet is very very powerful these days, between phone lookups, address lookups, and now photographic lookups, things can be scary.
I assert that my comment is only my opinion, not that of any employer, past, present or future.
The number you have dialed, 2154682929, has been disconnected. No further information is available.
Main Page and E-mail Page
"'Yrch!' said Legolas, falling into his own tongue."
Link to the bounty.
---
ECHELON is a government program to find words like bomb, jihad, plutonium, assassinate, and anarchy.
This is what I encourage people to do instead of risking a transaction through Paypal or some other entity where you're subject to their mediation in the event of a dispute. If you send a money order through the US mail accompanied with documentation about exactly what you're ordering and how and where said order is to be shipped, it becomes mail fraud if the seller balks and it falls under the jurisdiction of the US postal inspectors.
In most cases of small-time fraud, you're lucky if the local authorities do much more than file a report. Postal inspectors take mail fraud very seriously regardless of the amount involved.
IMO, sending a postal money order through the US mail is the safest form of payment. It protects both the seller and the buyer.
Pay with a credit card (not a debit card) and use Visa or Mastercard. As another poster below your thread said, Paypal is the merchant of record, not the scammer/seller, so both Discover and Amex won't pursue a chargeback request since Paypal did exactly as they were requested to do. Visa and Mastercard are much more forgiving. Note that if you persue a chargeback, you must file with Paypal first. Paypal requires that you give them the chance to recover the funds since they will be hit with the $25 chargeback fee from the CC company. After Paypal denies your claim, then you can ask your Visa/MC company to do a chargeback. I've had to do this. Failure to start with Paypal will often get your Paypal account suspended.
You can read much more about how scams work, rules, and procedures on the eBay community board, "SafeHarbor". eBay itself is very little help in these matters. They stick with their 'venue' status and don't get involved in disputes unless the police request it. (You can do that too!)
See also: http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/snipe_gt/
-tim
http://netnet.net/~slashdot/
The "online fraud protection" offered by credit cards generally supplements the automatic fraud protection that they are required by law to provide. You already have the right under federal law to dispute any charges on your credit card, which is a major reason why you should use a credit card for online purchases in the first place -- even when dealing with reputable vendors. I forget the maximum liability you can be legally charged for fraudulent charges on your card, but IIRC it is $50. At least on the cards that I have, the Online Fraud Protection kicks in to cover the difference, so you don't lose anything.
Read your card holder agreement and know the law!
Why is it that the proponents of "one nation under God" are so eager to get rid of "liberty and justice for all"?
If it helps anything, a reverse lookup shows:
Barnes, Craig
1535 S Dorrance St
Philadelphia, PA 19146-4625
(215) 468-2929
Well anyway, since Justin's T1 is being pummeled too, a bunch of slashdotters have come to the rescue and mirrored the site! Here are the ones I've had pointed out to me so far, and more are appearing as I type:
http://pio.longstair.com/misc/salwise.htm6 67.html
http://pio.longstair.com/misc/salwise2.htm
http://www.ibnads.com/sal/salwise.html
http://sd.wiretapped.us/07222004/
http://www.freelancesecurity.com/projects/1089824
The time to get a quote for shipping and handling is prior to bidding. If you can't get an answer or get an answer you don't like, hit the back button. Blaming eBay for your ignorance is foolish. Learn the rules before you play.
And just because an item is cheap doesn't mean shipping and handling won't be. Sure there are S&H scams, but often not. I just sold a RAID array that fetched about $40. Shipping was $60 via UPS and I charged $10 for handling to box it up safely. I probably could have charged three times that amount if I hadn't already had a padded box for it. What if it had sold for the opening bid of $5? Is charging $70 S&H wrong? That was the true cost.
eBay also doesn't "trash" accounts. You are allowed up to 3 non-paying bidder complaints before being suspended, or feedback of -4.
Their venue status has been backed up in court. I personally don't agree with it, but until they are challenged again, it sticks.
Blaming eBay for your ignorance is foolish. Learn the rules before you play.
It's not "my ignorance" or not "learning the rules". I followed the damn rules but eBay decided they didn't matter. I'll explain:
eBay's policies state that sellers can't just randomly tack on fees after the auction ends. Other than normal shipping fees, they must list these things in their auctions. I assumed that eBay's policy in this matter actually had teeth. In other words, I should have been able to say, "Sorry, that's bullshit, you violated eBay's policy and I'm not paying", and eBay should have busted him for not listing this handling fee in the auction. No harm done.
Had eBay played the game according to their own rules, this wouldn't have been an issue. I wouldn't have paid for the item and the seller would have been slapped for violating listing rules. Instead, eBay participates in "extortion" by forcing me to pay under threat of my account.
My ignorance wasn't in bidding on that item without knowing about this fee. It was in assuming eBay would enforce their own rules.
What if it had sold for the opening bid of $5? Is charging $70 S&H wrong? That was the true cost.
This guy tried to charge $40 in shipping fees. He paid less than $10 to ship the item to me. The price was right there on the box when it arrived. To make it a fair comparison, "What if (your item) had sold for the opening bid of $5? Is charging $280 S&H wrong? It's only 4x the true cost, and that stupid bidder should have asked first, right?"
When I'm told that I'll be paying for shipping, I figure I'm paying within a few bucks of what the shipper is going to charge unless the item requires special shipping or packaging (large/heavy/delicate/etc). That's the moral and ethical way to do business. If you're going to charge a huge handling fee, it needs to be stated UP FRONT, so there are no surprises.
These people won't do that because they're trying to screw you. They'll take an item that retails for $20, sell it to you for $5, and tack on $40 in shipping costs. Others just randomly tack on a bunch of handling fees after the fact to make up for their item selling for less than they expected. It's unethical at best, if not outright fraud. You know it, I know it, and eBay knows it. Yet eBay lets it happen and people like you blame the buyer.
When I posted this to one of eBay's boards while the situation was ongoing, I heard from a hundred people just like you. They called ME a "no good non-paying bidder". Yeah, with nearly 200 transactions worth tens of thousands of dollars, all 100% positive, suddenly I'm a deadbeat bidder on a $10 win from a guy with a small handful of transactions. That's bullshit and you know it.
-Ryan, with the unoriginal sig
PayPal Buyer Protection Eligibility
* You have received 50 or more eBay feedback comments.
* At least 98% of your eBay feedback is positive.
* You are a Verified member of PayPal.
* You use a Premier or Business PayPal account to accept payments.
* You have a U.S., U.K., German, or Canadian PayPal account in good standing.
* Claims must be filed within 30 days of the PayPal payment. If I remember correclty, you cant file a dispute until you haven't received the item after trying to resolve the issue for thrity days.
* You may not file a claim if you are simply disappointed with the item you have received. Items must be significantly not as described or never received. (no one can argue this one)
* You are limited to two PayPal Buyer Protection refunds per calendar year. Beyond that, we are unable to guarantee full recovery of funds.
Well maybe 7 out of 8 are good but rules but thats not 100% buyer portection.
Just use pdf2txt you fucking twat. It comes with xpdf.