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Windows XP SP2 Still Rough Around the Edges
Megor1 writes "According to crn.com when they tried upgrading various computers to Windows XP SP2 RC2 3 out of 5 of the machines failed to come back up, and had to have both SP1 and SP2 removed via various hacks supplied by Microsoft. Sounds like it might take a lot longer for Microsoft to release SP2 if RC2 is any sign of how far they are along."
it's beta. it's supposed to work 100% yet.
Installed a beta of SP2 maybe 2-3 months ago. Worked like a charm, and the new firewall is nice.
I've got FreeBSD and Windows XP SP 2 running side-by-side. I installed various incarnations of SP 2, from the original technical preview, to the current release candidate. I just installed the newest private build from Microsoft yesterday. When I was using the technical preview, a lot of software - especially CD and DVD burning software - was completely borked. Now things seem to be working better.
The improvements to Internet Explorer are really the main thing that caught my attention. Microsoft finally wisened up and started turning features like ActiveX off by default, and now has permissions completely locked down for the local computer. All I can say is, THANK GOD.
I normally have a lot of criticism for Microsoft, but this service pack is one of the few Windows builds I have to compliment them on. They've made a lot of steps forward in terms of security. However, as long as they rely on a complex, feature-filled package by default, we're going to see security holes in the default installations of Windows.
The real test is going to be when we roll this out hardcore at the office. Since the company has a lot of DCOM applications, I suspect many of them will break. This isn't really anything new to Linux and Unix users; when you install new libraries, you often have to recompile binaries for compatibility. However, in Windows enterprises, this is going to amount to absolute chaos - especially given that most businesses don't have access to source code to recompile.
This service pack is a good baby step in a long journey. In the meantime, I'm going to be busy dealing with broken applications.
First off, I'll go ahead and acknowledge that this is a release candidate. However, the type of surgery that people had to do in order to recover from that BSOD is way more than what Joe Sixpack will be capable of.
Reading the details of their methods, the rollback took out hardware drivers. Though they were able to recover all but one after a reboot, it probably would have been easier to just re-image the drive instead of having to jump hoops with rollback, registry edits, etc.
Wonder if this is Windows trying to make itself more secure...in a Darwinian fashion. If this is the case, I'm not so sure I'm too much opposed to it.
I know humour can be hard to detect on the net... but man... you really missed the boat.
I upgraded 150 Dells to SP4 from SP2 and SP3, every single one came up perfectly. I suspect parent is a troll
I have been a user for about 10 years. This ends Feb 2014. The site's been ruined. I'm off. Dice, FU
I have more than 1 machine, bud, and the basic W2K install media, and lotsa hard drives lying around, so I can eventually get the failed SP4 outta there. If not, I can do a fresh install on a different drive.
I conceed that the thread-head could be considered misleading by some, but I intended no deceit, and the overall meaning is unchanged. HAND.
Service Pack 4 Permits You to Remove the Service Pack by Using the Recovery Console
Win2k has an excelent compatibility mode you can run games in. I've gotten many of the windows 98 games that many people have had issues running in win2k, to work with the compatibility mode. It's just kinda tricky to turn on.. Even Fallout works in 2k.
Windows XP, like all software, is only as good as the administrator in charge of it. I control literally HUNDREDS of Windows XP boxes as a hired gun administrator and none of them (none,zero, zip nada) have the kind of problems you describe.
I have an overclocked Athlon at home dual booting between SuSe 9.1 and Windows XP and do not have the problems you describe.
Windows XP Pro installed on my laptop (again dualboot to SuSe 9.1) running SP1 + SP2 and do not have the problems you describe.
I'm not particuraly trying to be an ass, but perhaps you should stop blaming the OS and look for another cause.
My years of experience with XP has taught me that functionally it spanks the crap out of any MS OS prior, INCLUDING Windows 2000.
Just to be clear, the W2K compatibility stuff is a seperate download. I don't think it's been on Windows Update since XP appeared. So, many users might be unaware that 2K equals XP in this department.
Microsoft releases all of the actual security patches for Win2K as well ... XPSP2 is not just a set of security patches though. Odds are that every *known* vulnerability that is fixed in XPSP2 has already had it's fix released publicly for both XP and Win2K.
...) - lots of measures there surrounding avoiding spyware.
... as long as you get the actual patches for vulnerabilities.
SP2 also includes tons of fixes for 'possible' vulnerabilities (things like 'ok, here's a potential buffer overrun - can't find a specific path for an outsider to get in and exploit it but we're going to fix it anyway.)
Most importantly SP2 includes 'security features' within the OS - like new auto update functionality (pushing it to be on by default, nagging you repeatedly if you apply an update that requires a reboot and opt to reboot later), a way better firewall including firewall protection from the moment the system comes on to the net at boot time (previously there was a short window where the firewall wasn't on), popup blocking but more importantly a very strong effort to help users NOT install activex controls unless they really want them (you have to see it to understand what I mean
These are all product features, not security patches - you really can't expect to get them in Win2K - they just aren't part of the product. That's not to say that some of these things might not get ported anyway - but you can't really complain if they don't
It's EXPECTED not to work properly.
actually it *is* expected to work properly, that's the idea of going from Beta -> RC. The next step in the progression is RC -> Gold, at which point it better damn well work rather than should work.
my 2c
-nB
whois gawk date unzip strip find touch finger mount join nice man top fsck grep eject more yes exit umount sleep dump
I totally agree with the parent. If you want to know more about the Windows 2000 OS, read the book Inside Windows 2000 3rd Edition by Solomon and Russinovich and get to know Windows 2000 internals in detail. If you are one of the teen slashdot kiddies out to save the internet and this world by installing Linux on everything in sight and saying MS sucks, then that book isn't for you.
Not to be offensive, but I don't buy it. Simply because you cannot configure your machine properly when overclocked isn't a good reason to claim XP is unstable....
Admittedly, it may imply that the Linux kernel handles exceptions, etc better than XP, but from what you're saying, I suspect the instablity is in your -system-.
Very interesting how (relatively) easy it is to uninstall all service packs from Win XP:
* Execute whatever DOS commands are in spuninst.txt
* Set a registry key to "LocalSystem"
* Execute spuninst\spuninst.exe
* Reboot to restore (most) drivers
Once this is done, the article says, all service packs are gone without a trace. This leaves the Win XP box in the state it would have been in on October 14, 2003, with all these vulnerabilities.
So much for security patches!
Stressed? Me? Of course not. Stress is what a rubber band feels before it breaks, silly.
I use bestcrypt (kind of like a crypto loopback device, only for windows), and SP2 hosed it. The device driver won't load, and I still can't access any of my encrypted data.
I wonder what SP2 did that broke it?
What are you doing wrong??? I'm a network admin for about 100 Windows 2000 Pro workstations. I've NEVER had any problems loading them with SP4. Here's how I upgrade them to SP4:
1. Backup ALL pertinent information to a file server/other computer.
2. Use a Win2000 disk to format and install Win2000 by itself. Install any SCSI/RAID drivers here if you have to.
3. Install SP4 BEFORE you install anything else (including drivers).
4. Install all of the Windows Updates that are part of your Standard Operating Environment (SOE).
5. Install your hardware drivers.
6. Install the applications that are part of your SOE.
7. Copy the information that was backed up in step 1 back to this machine.
You now have a Win2000 SP4 box ready for use.
I recently did a format of my WinXP Partition, reinstalled, installed Service Pack 2, and haven't encountered any problems whatsoever to date.
p pro/maintain/winxpsp2.mspx l t.asp?icp=xpsp2&slcid=us /. ^_^)
I don't wave the banner of Microsoft, by any means, but I'm gonna have to refuse jumping on the "lol winblows sux!!11" bandwagon this time. Quote, from the mouth of the bloated giant itself:
WARNING!
This technical preview is unsupported and is intended for testing purposes only. Do not use in production environments.
Were you really expecting it to be perfect? The entire point of a beta test is to locate bugs and fix them.
Some useful links:
FAQ's, Deployment Guides, etc:
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/prodtechnol/winx
SP2 Newsgroups:
http://communities.microsoft.com/newsgroups/defau
(Not that the newsgroups contain much pertinent information; almost as much anti-MS sentiment there as
The article mentions that they blue-screened and said "winserv" couldn't be found (I see no one bothered to Google it). First of all, I call bullsh*t as bluescreens are for hardware failures. Secondly, winserv is SPYWARE AKA A VIRUS. Why would they expect anything to install properly on those machines?
I've installed SP2 on about 40-50 machines with no probs. I say this article is anti-MS propaganda.
The parent article is just plain ridiculous. I'm the I.T. Director for a large organization, and practically the entire I.T. department is running SP2 RC2, busily finding out what it breaks (not as much as you'd think, actually). The idea that 3 out of 5 machines "didn't come back up" is either due to (a) really funky, odd hardware or (b) a really screwy WinXP core install. We've had a 100% upgrade success rate and no reason to complain thus far, and we've got way more than 5 systems done.
But it wouldn't matter if we had 100 systems that worked right because it's a statistically insignificant sample of the overall whole. Hey, I had a Linux box not come back up once because I updated the kernel 2.4 kernel package with a 2.5 development release package! I guess the 2.6 kernel needed to go back to testing big time, eh? Do you see the idiocy of the parent article's claim and further assumption?
But then again this is Slashdot, where no good bashing of Microsoft goes unheralded.
In the end they will lay their freedom at our feet and say to us, Make us your slaves, but feed us. - Fyodor Dostoyevsky
Here's a tip: By definition, if it's overclocked, it's not running in spec.
I just attended a Microsoft-sponsored developers' seminar on the technical details and impact of Windows XP SP2. While most of the day was pretty boring, there was one item of interest regarding Microsoft's new security upgrade, Windows Firewall.*
.NET applications are not affected by the behavior of Windows Firewall, since they are invoked from distinct executables.
:( )
When the Firewall is enabled (and it is by default), any application that tries to bind to a port that is not specified as listenable in the firewall configuration will cause a friendly MS dialog to come up, asking the user if they want to allow incoming traffic on the port to be handled by [name of the application]. If the user clicks yes, a rule will be created, allowing the application to use the port. If the user clicks no, the application will be blacklisted, and will not receive inbound trafic from any network interfaces.
Blacklisted applications are still allowed to bind to ports, so they will not notice anything is wrong; they will just think there is no traffic.
Guess what happens if the application in question is Java? That's right, the Java Virtual Machine gets banned from listening to the network. Any Java app that subsequently tries to access a port will languish behind the firewall without any prompt to the user alerting him or her that their Java-based server or chat program is being blocked.
For the savvy, this issue is remedied fairly easily by configuring open ports for any apps that need them. But savvy users have never been Microsoft's target customer group, and one can easily imagine many SP2 initiates being taught the Microsoft way that Java technology just doesn't work.
Note that
Food for thought.
Nate (dateline Dallas-Ft.Worth on lay-over
* Replaces Internet Connection Firewall, offering simple but relatively (for MS) configurable protection against unsolicited network traffic.
My other
You'd be saving yourself a chunk of time if you just installed a slipstreamed SP4 Windows 2000 install.
As for the grandparent, people make a big deal out of simple Windows problems even as they downplay similar Linux problems. I don't even want to detail my network experiences with Slackware, Gentoo, and Red Hat 9. Ugh. We eventually went with XP.
The idea of a servicepack is that you can use it to upgrade a live installation, just like with windows update. Reinstalling and then restoring data from a backup.. That's just.. wrong..
For one thing, what happens to stuff in the registry in odd places (HKLM)? Why isn't data already on a separate partition, if not a network (NAS/SAN) drive? Not using roaming profiles - are you mad? Why not using a slipstreamed install, or even better using ghost to duplicate disk images if you're using a "standard operating environment"?
You sound like some one who feels the need to format his hard drive every once in a while, "just in case".
SCO employee? Check out the bounty
There's lots of posts here about how they've have no problems with SP2... Well, I tried installing SP2-RC1 shortly after it became available, and it totally hosed that PC.
I couldn't even finish booting. XP Setup's recovery option couldn't even run. I had to reinstall XP from scratch, into a new folder, just to boot up. Couldn't install it into the same folder either (I didn't just pop in a bootdisk and delete C:\Windows because I wanted to save some of the files - too much to do via command prompt).
I then vowed that I wouldn't install SP2 until the final version had been out for a while, and nobody was reporting any problems.
Duct tape is like the Force. It has a light side, a dark side, and it holds the universe together.
Off topic, but I just wanted to say that Fact Index is one of Wikipedia's mirror sites. If you want the most up to date info and don't like the ads, here's Wikipedia's article directly: Microsoft Bob
There sure are a lot of ACs posting this line. So far you've all missed the point. I'm not saying Windows is crap! I'm saying it's a very good business desktop but 2K and XP are not a bulletproof solution for all users.
Firstly, I have not mentioned Linux at all, so your insecurities are shining rather brightly.
Secondly, you're all talking about business environments with support and systems management available. I'm talking about single systems and small networks without full time "professional" management. I think Win2K is pretty good and generally quite stable, but people who trump Windows 2K or XP as being the shiznit for clueless users are wrong. Yesterday I fixed 3 machines that clueless users has managed to render inoperable in their daily usage. Two suffered significant filesystem corruption, all three suffered from application and registry problems. That is not the hallmark of a rock-solid OS.
Forget thrust, drag, lift and weight. Airplanes fly because of money.
I work at Microsoft. They asked us to upgrade our SP1 machines to the latest build of SP2. I started with a test box (for which I have Ghost images), and that went quite well. I moved on to two other boxes that I use for parallel builds (no Ghost images, but nothing lost if they die), and they came back up just great. At that point I was confident enough to upgrade my main system. Again, no trouble. All of my updates were done via the "Windows Update" web site.
While the first 3 machines were VERY clean machines (essentially XP + patches + antivirus, no other software installed and no major configuration changes), the 4th machine was my work machine -- I've probably installed or uninstalled something from my box every day for the past year (but I'm still on the original install of Windows). While I know how to keep the machine operating well, it definitely isn't a clean box.
As with any upgrade or patch, there are risks. But I had absolutely no trouble with the upgrade on any of the 4 machines. The only difference is that the firewall pops up a message box every once in a while asking if I want to allow a connection. Oh, the "Settings and Preferences" link from the Antitrust settlement was "restored" (how many times do I have to delete that thing?).
Nothing is ever perfect, especially with software. But Microsoft has tried very hard to make sure this will work well for everybody. And as far as I can tell, they've done a good job. Yes, there will be some bugs. Yes, you'll want to be careful about applying this to production machines (make backups!). But I think the majority of people will upgrade and have no trouble.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
A message stated that "winserv" was missing.
u gin.html seems to confirm my suspisions.
winserv is not application which would be needed at boot time.
It looks like a spyware to me.
http://www.spyany.com/program/article_spy_rm_IEPl
Obiviuosly SP2 RC2 didn't hose the machine. It was a spyware
I have never had an application crash Windows 2000 or XP.
I've had freezes in 2000, related to crappy creative SBLive drivers - which I no longer get with XP (and updated drivers), and I've had 2 bluescreens in XP related to crappy ATI drivers, but that's it.
I do Java and C development, and work with Oracle and multiple J2EE containers and Web servers. I also play games, and do home recording with Cakewalk Sonar, using many tracks, soft synths and effects.
So I stress my machines fairly hard, but I still don't see crashes in XP.
I did however, do some serious research before putting together my DAW machine and made sure I found the most stable motherboard with the most stable chipset of the time.
Chances are, if you're getting regular bluescreens you've either got crap hardware, crap drivers, or you're overclocking.
Windows, for it its flaws, is very stable since W2k.
On the other hand, I have had lockups and kernel panics when using Linux, but also never from an application, always from bad hardware, or bad drivers.
If you're always seeing the same bluescreen from the same application, then maybe that application is actually triggering a bug in a driver by using functionality that other applications rarely use.
I remember that Enlightenment used to come with a warning that because it did things that other X applications did not, that it was likely to trigger bugs in X that could cause it to crash, or lock up, or even cause a kernel panic and crash the whole machine - so that's also not a Windows specific thing.
Advanced users are users too!
At our company, our login script will call a PERSONAL.BAT file if it exists in your user directory.
So I have the login script change registry entry preferences for things that I find exceedingly annoying. Like now I have explorer default to detailed view, show hidden files, yada yada...
If we had clippy showing up, that preference would have been in my personal login script.
I take it you don't know how to do something similar?