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Open Source a National Security Threat

n3xup writes "Dan O'Dowd, CEO of Green Hills Software, suggests that open source software has the capability of being sabotaged by foreign developers and should not be used for U.S. military or security purposes. He likened Linux with a Trojan Horse- free, but in the end a lot of trouble. O'Dowd thinks that unfriendly countries will attempt to hide intentional bugs that the Open Source community will have no chance of finding."

29 of 921 comments (clear)

  1. remember this guy? by jabella · · Score: 5, Informative

    Remember this guy? He also wrote "Linux Security: Unfit for Retrofit" ( http://www.ghs.com/linux/unfit.html )

    This was covered by LWN back in May: http://lwn.net/Articles/83242/

    IIRC, GHS does development on embedded XP stuff? I don't remember the details...

  2. Haha, a Trojan horse by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    Maybe a Trojan horse with windows(not windoze) all over it, so you could see inside and see what (if anything) is waiting for you.

    Remember you have the source and all bugs are shallow with enough eyes, this applies to evil code as well.

    M$ windoze is the real trojan horse. The one you cannot see inside and not only that, is being forced upon you.

  3. Re:FUD. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    ... and actually, both SuSE and Red Hat have products headed towards EAL4 certification.

  4. Groklaw destroyed this FUD...long ago by FunWithHeadlines · · Score: 4, Informative
    Huh? Where's slashdot been? Groklaw answered this FUD months ago, repeatedly and definitively.

    Truly nothing to see here, folks. Just empty FUD that has been discredited.

  5. Closed source safer? by bigbigbison · · Score: 3, Informative

    I seem to remember a few years ago (possibly after 9/11, but I'm not sure) there was an incident where an employee of a company that has a governement contract to write software that manages government infrastructure was suspected of terrorist links and so they had to spend tonds of time seaching through the code to make sure the suspect had not programmed a back-door into the system. (I might be misremembering the details here, but that was the gist of it) it seems that closed source is a lot easier to hide things away than open source.

    --
    http://www.popularculturegaming.com -- my blog about the culture of videogame players
  6. What about outsourced closed-source? by G4from128k · · Score: 2, Informative

    If this is a security issue, then the government should definitely not buy closed source from any software company that uses any offshore (non-U.S.) programmers. Who knows what those offshore programmers are inserting into the closed code. Of course, that rules out just about every large closed source maker in the world as I'm sure most have some non-U.S. development groups.

    --
    Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do.
  7. Re:FUD. by nemaispuke · · Score: 5, Informative

    In Dan O'Dowd's mentioning of Linux "only" receiving CC EAL 2 is somewhat incorrect. RedHat Enterprise Linux Advanced Server got CC EAL2, SuSe Enterprise Linux was evaluated at EAL 3+. This is roughly the equivalent of TCSEC C2, and can be deployed in a classified environment. I guess he needs to check http://niap.nist.gov/cc-scheme/vpl/vpl_assur_lvl.h tml more regularly and actually read it!

  8. "Attempt" is right by Zocalo · · Score: 4, Informative

    Um, this was already tried last November. Not only was the exploit very subtle indeed but it was still detected and removed within 24 hours. This is about as effective a piece of FUD as AdTI's last effort, and it looks like they were so embarrassed by that one they are resorting to a new name. I'm guessing we won't be hearing from "Green Hills Software" again once they've been publically ridiculed either...

    --
    UNIX? They're not even circumcised! Savages!
  9. Same crap from January. by khasim · · Score: 2, Informative

    Same guy, same company, same crap

    http://developers.slashdot.org/developers/04/01/ 15 /1733237.shtml?tid=106&tid=185&tid=190

  10. Re:FUD. by imroy · · Score: 4, Informative

    Check out this link: Understanding the Windows EAL4 Evaluation

    ...EAL levels run from 1 to 7. EAL1 basically means that the vendor showed up for the meeting. EAL7 means that key parts of the system have been rigorously verified in a mathematical way. EAL4 means that the design documents were reviewed using non-challenging criteria. This is sort of like having an accounting audit where the auditor checks that all of your paperwork is there and your business practice standards are appropriate, but never actually checks that any of your numbers are correct. An EAL4 evaluation is not required to examine the software at all.

    EAL doesn't really mean much. At least, not until you get up to the higher levels. It's basically so that government departments can have a check-list requirement for any software they buy or comission.

  11. Re:Understand the Source Perspective by Lumpy · · Score: 4, Informative

    Let's say I knew that DoD used a certain package in gunnery firmware. Let's say a math library that would be used to make calculations to calibrate the weapon. How hard would it be to build in a small tiny bit of error that would only be useful in cases of calibration of high-tech weapons? If 3000 lines of dense mathematically rich C were checked in and a dozen lines acted in concert to create a miscalculation, how much expertise would be needed to catch that?

    so you are telling us that if they BUY the software form XYZ company they blindly accept it as perfect and simply use it without question??

    if so, then I really need to look at emigrating out of the United States because the levels of incompetence is getting insane.

    I dont care if it's free/oss or a 60bajillion dollar closed source software written by aliens from alpha centauri. if it's something you absolutely rely on, you had damn better check it completely. OSS should abide by the same rules that the other stuff does.... check it completely from beginning to end.

    --
    Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
  12. Not Wind River by Bruce+Perens · · Score: 4, Informative
    No, so far we don't see the same from Wind River. They had the choice of FUD or joining the Free Software developers, and they chose the latter.

    Bruce

  13. Re:Understand the Source Perspective by kfg · · Score: 5, Informative

    Can you honestly tell me that the government is going to hire a panel of people to check in in-depth source changes on OSS projects?

    The American government actually has an entire agency whose job is to perform just such tasks.

    It's called the NSA.

    Will the NSA actually perform this function with OSS?

    They've already made their own distro.

    KFG

  14. Issues at Hand by gmletzkojr · · Score: 5, Informative

    There are a number of issues that play a part in the Green Hills argument. First of all, let me say that I have had the experience of using Green Hills products (non-military) for the past few years now.

    First of all, coming from a company that charges *a lot* of money for an OS stands *a lot* to lose from a free OS. Therefore, GH would be expected to say that a GH product is better.

    The fact that GH source code is not open source does not mean that no one ever sees it. I have access to the entire source, and, if so inclined, could use that information to create an attack myself or provide the source to someone else. Remember, even though the company signed a release for the source, that doesn't mean that money talks more.

    GH has, up till this point, maintained a 'top dog' status in this area. In fact, when we asked for a driver for USB mass storage, the response was 'Well, where else would you get it? It is going to cost you.'

    IMHO, GH has had a bit of a mini-Microsoft status within the military embedded world. This has certainly mirrored the PC OS world - one leading OS, some neat features, but when you really look at, how many ways are there to create a GUI or an OS. Let's be honest - an OS has queues, semaphores, a file system (replaceable, in GH), etc. So we are not talking about 'rocket surgery'.

    The idea of Linux not being 'military grade' would really need to be made from an independent group. This is akin to MS saying that it has the best browser or GUI. Of course they are going to say that.

    --
    I for one welcome our new [insert main topic] overlords.
  15. my comment about his article by Goeland86 · · Score: 3, Informative

    this is what I posted on his article, on designnews itself, where I'm sure he will read it:

    In theory, of course, you're totally right in believing this. In practice, however, you're inescapibly wrong. First, since Linux is open source, the army implementing these linux embedded systems most likely read through the code to verify it's normal behavior and lack of serious design flaws, second, terrorists nowadays do not use computers for fear of being traced by the NSA or CIA with the net, thus preventing themselves from ever contributing code to Linux. Third and last, the linux kernel development team has now a signature follow-up on the internet, to make sure that each piece of code can be traced back to it's original author. It makes it that much easier to locate the developpers of Linux. Many of them are in countries that you failed to mention, like Japan, Australia, Finland and many other western countries that the US government trusts. Besides that, the open-source community is the best bug-tracking-solving community in the world. I believe it has happened for the webserver apache when the new version was shipped out with a security flaw less than an hour later the bug was traced in the code and a patch submitted. So, even in the case of a security flaw in the linux kernel, I believe that in less than 35 minutes the army computer specialists would be able to trace and fix the flaw. And those security flaws are precisely the reason the army orders pre-series of each equipment they will use and test them for a few months with anything that they're expected to meet in combat zone, one of them being loss of OS stability, control or even total power failure and recovery. You have only looked at the theoretical part of the problem, and propose no solution to the problems you see, therefore I consider your article a big rant against opensource, not constructive criticism, which in my opinion would be true partiotism.

    --
    ---- I am certain of only one thing : I know nothing else.
  16. Re:Understand the Source Perspective by AndroidCat · · Score: 2, Informative

    Embedded is one of those Humpty-Dumpty type words. It used to be only for firmware stuff, but now it's used to cover any kind of batch job or server app.

    --
    One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
  17. Re:Understand the Source Perspective by danheskett · · Score: 2, Informative

    the government trust them over a different group of developers?

    I've worked for government projects on a lower-level of security/oversight than the DoD. Here are some reasons.

    1. Background checks. Not just instant ones, ones overseen by an actual person at the DOJ.

    2. Penalty of Law. Programming logs and notes are kept to incredible detail. Every scrap of source is accounted for. If someone intentionally threw some nasties in it, well, it wouldn't take long for you to be in jail.

    3. Financial motivation. Bad software/buggy software/trojan'd software will lead to cancelled contracts. That's bad for the contractor. It also leads to strict internal guidelines and procedures. Especially in companies where 100% of the company business is Defense contracting.

    4. Trusted base. Most/many of the projects are based on trusted platforms or semi-trusted platforms. If you only have to review the changes to an exisiting system it is much more appealing than starting from scratch.


    Again, I am not saying that OSS should or shouldn't be used for certain projects. Just that it's not a no-brainer one way or the other.

  18. I've got two words for this guy: by schon · · Score: 2, Informative
  19. Re:Understand the Source Perspective by Tony-A · · Score: 2, Informative

    I think it'd be tricky, because it would break other high-precision things as well.

    Run something with a known analytic solution through an artificially complicated computation to achieve the same solution. Any error means something is wrong. Somewhat like recompiling the kernel to check for strange memory errors. Too many eyes. Too many idle hands with idle computers.

    Extremely more likely to get away with it with closed source because the scrutiny is less and much more predictable. By the time an open source gets anywhere near serious, there are egos to contend with. It's open. It's shared. But there's something even stronger than the "Not Invented Here" syndrome. An indication was when OpenBSD said "Everybody patch OpenSSH." Debian said "Show us the exploit." If OpenBSD doesn't get instant credibility on a security issue, notbody else is going to get much either.

    There is an issue if the code itself is weak. With open source it will be found out and everybody will know about it. With closed source the odds favor your enemy knowing that you have no idea of.

  20. Re:Understand the Source Perspective by sean.peters · · Score: 2, Informative

    The danger is an obscure security hole that would allow infiltration.

    The key point where this guys whole argument falls apart is that proprietary software isn't any better.

    IAAWSSE (I am a weapons systems safety engineer) and I can tell you there's another point where this argument falls apart. It's not like weapons systems software is accessible via the Internet - there's an "air gap" between these kind of systems and the rest of the world. So even if there are security holes in the software, it's not like J. Random Hacker is going to be able to connect to these systems to exploit them.

    While insider attacks are possible, a) the people who operate these things are fairly thoroughly checked out before they get in the military, b) generally speaking, they have a vested interest in having their systems operate properly, and c) if in spite of all that, they were still motivated to do mischief, they'd have to be signed into a military computer terminal somewhere inside the system... and chances are very high they'd be caught.

    Sean

  21. Re:Understand the Source Perspective by gilesjuk · · Score: 2, Informative

    Exactly!

    Besides, both Linux and Windows get plenty of hack attempts and plenty of holes are closed. So neither is probably that ideal for military use.

    Nothing will ever be that secure, they should take steps to make sure their systems aren't exposed to the public, private networks, no dialup numbers, no use of wifi etc..

  22. Criteria for ICAT vulnerability citation by anthro398 · · Score: 4, Informative

    I was looking through the authors citations and it seems that his quote concerning the number of vulnerabilities in Linux compared to those in Windows is pretty questionable. The database, as you can see here, has one selection for Linux and many for Windows. It seems that the U.S. National Institute of Standards and Technology considers components of Windows, such as Internet Explorer not to be a part of the operating system, thus listing vulnerabilities of the compenents separate from those of the OS. At the same time, Linux vulnerabilities include Sound Blaster driver issues and problems with third party software such as Symantec Antivirus.

  23. Re:This is an old story, and FUD anyway by AndroidCat · · Score: 2, Informative
    That was a nasty one:
    Any local user or remote user able to access port 3050/tcp [gds_db] can manipulate any database object on the system. This includes the ability to install trapdoors or other trojan horse software in the form of stored procedures. In addition, if the database software is running with root privileges, then any file on the server's file system can be overwritten, possibly leading to execution of arbitrary commands as root.
    I wonder where the person who coded that one is working now?
    --
    One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
  24. The strengths of Linux count against its security by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

    Let me comment as one who has some background in NSA/NIST/TCSEC/CC evaluated software.

    If you bet your life or your country's safety, you want something like Evaluated software doing the protecting. And not just EAL4 level stuff like NT. Look at the common criteria and look at the definitions of what the software evaluation levels are appropriate for.

    Evaluation at a greater than EAL4 leval means that the documentation and test development each take much more time than the coding. The Evaluation itself (assuming the vendor has all his docs and tests complete) takes twice the time of the development. The Evaluation is done in a 4 tiered process with each of the 4 entities (lab, validator, tecnical approval board and vulnerability tester) having access to the source code and to the developers documentation and to the developers themselves.

    High levels of evaluation require single source development under a single set of development standards.

    Code developed, in our group, is reviewed in writing by 3 of the most senior architects of the product. Each reviewer objection or concern must be satisfied until it passes to the next reviewer.

    So that means that we can document that 7 security trained people or outside organizations have looked at any code that is declared "Evaluated".

    The object code is delivered in a trusted distribution methodology such that there is end to end verification (including while loading and while running) that the code that was developed and evaluated is the code you are running.

    Now compare the Linux method of development and distribution.

    To say that the code is Linux code is locked down and tested is to say that the barn door is locked too late in the process for the kinds of things the author of this posting is citing as potentials for happening. The emphasis must be on security over all, designed in from the begining and nothing ... not functionality or speed or compatibility ... can come before security in any design or coding task.

    Is every Linux improvement preceeded by a security review?

    Is there a security guru that can stop ship?

    Is the security guru trained in security?

    Is the security guru management supported?

    Developing and deploying secure software is a time consuming, expensive, specialty that only a very few companies attempt.

  25. You Are Being Delibrately Misleading. by HopeOS · · Score: 3, Informative

    Linus only takes patches from the people responsible for appropriate parts of the kernel. To get a patch through requires convincing those individuals -- and they do check the patches. In my experience, getting patches into the kernel is not a trivial matter, in fact it is frustratingly difficult. Futhermore, even if you succeed in getting a patch into some esoteric driver, the less mainstream it is, the less likely it will be in an active kernel.

    If the various world governments will go through the trouble to audit defense contractors' code, then they can save themselves some trouble and audit Open Source code instead; any vendor establishing from that base will require less time in audit later. If the governments do not demand an independent audit of contractors' code, then that is where you will find the weak link. With Open Source, you always have the opportunity to audit at any time, diff against previously audited sources, and compile customized code with minimal audited feature sets.

    Green Hills is saying "Trust Us! Trust Us!" Open Source is suggesting you trust what you can independently verify before your own experts' eyes.

    As for the tool chain issue, you are seriously glossing over the obvious -- all the statements you have made apply to proprietary vendors as well. The solution is simple: don't upgrade the tool chain until the changes pass inspection. This is standard operating procedure for all mission critical deployments.

    -Hope

  26. Rebuttal from LynuxWorks at COTS Journal by eddison_carter · · Score: 2, Informative

    The June issue had an article from GHS, and one from LynuxWorks. COTS Journal is published for developers (Systems, hardware, and software) of commerical off the shelf products, which is essentailyl a standard for military procurement where possible (You can get a computer, OS, etc, "off the shelf", but something like a sub or cruise missle is another story)

    LynuxWorks: http://www.cotsjournalonline.com/home/article.php? id=100128

    GHS: http://www.cotsjournalonline.com/home/article.php? id=100129

    --
    I always prefer to start the year off with a bang - or, to be more precise, a series of loud hums, a crackle or two, and
  27. Linux is not a RTOS by Discoflamingo13 · · Score: 4, Informative

    What Dowd fails to mention, in all of this, is that Level A certification requires a detailed specification of requirements that the system must implement. These requirements must be covered by test cases that give full requirement coverage (or appropriate analysis) and structural coverage (for Level A, it is MC/DC statement coverage). The Open Source methodology is a long way from being a DO-178B compliant process, and rightly so - the rules for change control of a Level A-certified product are the exact opposite of the "release early, release often" method embraced by a typical open source program, because the development objectives are entirely different. This does not mean that an open source program can not be certified to Level A - it means that it requires a great deal of work on behalf of the organization submitting it for Level A compliance, first.

    DO-178B is the most rigorous safety evaluation standard in the aerospace, automotive, or defense industries. There is no difference in the DO-178B certification guidelines for verifying a closed-source vs. open-source application. The problem that both of them have to come up with is documentation of the process used to produce the product, along with design and architectural requirements for the application that can be independently verified for full MC/DC statement coverage by an independent third party. Each application must be shown to accomodate space (memory access) and time (real-time scheduling) partitioning requirements on any device it is run on.

    Most Level A OS's are a RTOS with (if you're lucky) ANSI and POSIX libraries for I/O and math. There are companies that have modified Linux for use in real-time embedded applications, but the standard Linux scheduler is not real-time, and does not perform space partitioning of application memory (which means it can be Level E, but nothing above that). If it does not affect safety-critical parameters, it doesn't have to be Level A - Levels D or E are acceptable.

  28. Re:Understand the Source Perspective by Dashing+Leech · · Score: 4, Informative
    Closed source is even worse in this respect...

    Absolutely. Any to anyone who cares to argue that proprietary companies are more strict in reviewing their own code, please explain the abundance of easter eggs in proprietary software.

  29. Rebuttle... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    I posted this comment directly to Mr. O'Dowd's article, but re-issue it here:

    I think that Mr. O'Dowd represents one extereme end of the community, and a very
    paranoid one at that. His argument has a certain degree of merit, but he, like most of
    those posting comments, has missed the point. I could post a lengthy rebuttle to Mr.
    O'Dowds points, but that would be useless as his statements are based on his beliefs
    and belief systems are difficult to change. Instead, I will say this...

    Mr. O'Dowd in an attempt to strengthen his position rattles off a number of socially
    obscure references to government security standards and policies. Attempting to
    create emotion in favor of your position by spouting off vague and obscure references
    to security standards shows, well, Mr. O'Dowd's insecurity at best. I do not dispute the
    relevence to his position, but I do dispute the FACT that Linux has not passed nor
    been tested to meet these standards. Let me be direct. If Linux is going to be used in
    operational areas where these standards exist, then it MUST pass them now doesn't
    it? These standards exist and MUST be adhered to whether the source is open or
    proprietary. Using them as a means of disqualifying Linux in operational areas is silly.

    Attacking Linux by saying that because it is open source someone can "easily infiltrate
    the Linux community to contribute subversive software" is also rubbish. Going back to
    Mr. O'Dowd's argument about the standards compliance, he totally destroys this as a
    valid point. The clearance process for the software to be in compliance with the
    standards he mentioned would prevent this from happening, just as it does for
    proprietary code. Basically, when the government and matters of national security are
    involved, there is no such thing as closed code. The code is scrutinized very carefully
    no matter what the source.

    So what does this all mean? Well, Mr. O'Dowd, as I mentioned above, is at an extreme
    end of the spectrum. His comments, although alarmist and defensive in nature, have a
    certain amount of value. I believe there are enough checks and balances in place to
    see that our nations secrets and its critical systems remain safe. One thing also to
    keep in perspective is that NO SYSTEM, open or proprietary is safe from attack or
    vulnerabilities. That is an unrealistic ideal. However, I do not think that open source
    software poses any less or greater a threat to security, but does offer a much more
    flexible solution than a proprietary counterpart.

    Jason Lockhart
    Director, HPC and Technology Innovation
    College of Engineering
    Virginia Tech