New Phone Uses WLAN or Cel Networks

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New Phone Uses WLAN or Cel Networks

Posted by CmdrTaco on Tuesday July 27, 2004 @04:59AM from the now-thats-what-i'm-talking-about dept.

Reefa writes "Avaya, Motorola and Proxim this week are expected to announce a co-developed handset and enterprise network gear that let mobile phone users roam between cellular networks and wireless LANs to make/receive calls. The phone uses SIP to make calls when on the WLAN network and switches to using cellular network when out of WLAN coverage and vice versa. The device also supports Push-To-Talk over SIP. BTW, the phone runs WinCE."

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Favorite OS name by Dashing+Leech · 2004-07-27 05:04 · Score: 4, Funny

Ah yes, my favorite OS name. Who else but M$ would come up with a name that spells wince. Was there ever a more appropriate name? Now they just need to come out with a cringe OS.
1. Re:Favorite OS name by Infinite93 · 2004-07-27 05:11 · Score: 5, Funny
  
  I think you just named the next portable Linux Distro.
  "Don't WinCE, Cringe!!!"
2. Re:Favorite OS name by wronskyMan · 2004-07-27 05:13 · Score: 2, Funny
  
  Now they just need to come out with a cringe OS.
  
  Well, a certain technology critic is partnering with Apple to develop the iCringe (ly) OS
  
  --
  --- You shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you mad- Neal (not Cowboy) Boortz
An intriguing solution to some problems by chia_monkey · 2004-07-27 05:05 · Score: 4, Insightful

The one thing that gets me from the article (yes, I actually read it...go figure) is that you have to use Avaya access points. That right there could be the deal killer because there are already thousands of access points installed around the country. I don't see that many companies tearing apart their infrastructure simply for this functionality. Think of all the national rollout plans (McDonalds, Panera Breads, airports, Barnes & Noble, etc) that would have to redo everything. It would be like starting from scratch for them and for the WiFi companies that installed everything.

Yet, this is an interesting solution to those killer cell phone bills. We're experiencing that right now as we take a large volume of calls on our cell phones. If we were able to use "WiFi airtime" instead of "cell time" while in the office, that could save a company loads of money.

--

"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lampposts...for support rather than illumination." - Andrew Lang
1. Re:An intriguing solution to some problems by gwernol · 2004-07-27 05:18 · Score: 4, Informative
  
  The one thing that gets me from the article (yes, I actually read it...go figure) is that you have to use Avaya access points. That right there could be the deal killer because there are already thousands of access points installed around the country. I don't see that many companies tearing apart their infrastructure simply for this functionality. Think of all the national rollout plans (McDonalds, Panera Breads, airports, Barnes & Noble, etc) that would have to redo everything. It would be like starting from scratch for them and for the WiFi companies that installed everything.
  
  But the main use would be within a company, not for public WiFi access points. Replacing the APs within a building, or throughout a hospital (as discussed in the article... natch) is a much smaller task and could easily pay for itself if the calling costs were suitably low.
  
  --
  Sailing over the event horizon
Starting to End the debate... by Dozix007 · 2004-07-27 05:05 · Score: 3, Insightful

I think with the recent release of more an more all in one Cell-Phones we are seeing the end of the convergence\divergence debate. It seems that everything all-in-one devices are picking up much more steem than intercommunication devices. This can be seen with the geek-watch reported yesterday, as well as the new ipod phones.
Two problems... by Teancom · 2004-07-27 05:06 · Score: 4, Interesting

Every 802.11b wireless device I've ever heard of sucks batteries like a fat kid with a slurpy. The example the article uses is a hospital staff. Is the phone going to last an entire 18-hour shift without recharging? That would be seriously impressive.

Secondly, why the need to have a special WAP? I can see having to have some sort of control-device, that's obvious. But it really ought to work with any standard WAP, and route to the PBX. I see that really hurting the chances of wide-spread adoption in a lot of places (like my house!). It would be like having a IP telephony system that made you replace all your hubs and switches. Just ain't gonna happen.
1. Re:Two problems... by djrogers · 2004-07-27 06:02 · Score: 2, Insightful
  
  why the need to have a special WAP?
  Simple reason - QoS. The Voice calls you make over Vonage or Skype, while often quite acceptable, are delivered via best effort. If your roommate suddenly decides to download the latest LOTR divx and swamps your DSL line, your call quality goes out the window. This device, and the WAPs that AV will be selling with it, are intended for enterprise use - build out a single 802.11 network for voice and data, at far less cost than a wireless voice network alone would cost (wireless PBX phones and base stations are very pricey). As for adopting it in your house, well frankly I don't think AV cares. First of all, you'd need about 40k worth of Avaya PBX to get started... It's not really designed for you to fire up your phone at starbucks and get on TMobile's WiFi network - the cellular network is perfectly sufficient for out of office use. This is designed to replace your desk phone when you are roaming around your office/campus.
  
  --
  Think outside the... Hey, where'd the friggin' box go?
2. Re:Two problems... by Teancom · 2004-07-27 06:12 · Score: 2, Informative
  
  But QoS can be implemented using standard routers. I.e., the routers that every enterprise workplace already has. Connected to via the WAPs and switches that every enterprise already has. Which is my point, really. The "in my house" was meant firmly tongue in cheek :-). As the guy in the article says, they just got done rolling out cisco waps everywhere in the building. Why can't they use those?
Battery Consumption by reuben04 · 2004-07-27 05:07 · Score: 2, Interesting

I wonder how long the batteries last on it. They don't mention that in the article, but all of the WinCE devices I have ever used didn't last all that long. I assume that it would not last as long as the smartphone's as it probably has to search for the Wi-Fi all the time.
Re:Crashes more often by wfberg · 2004-07-27 05:14 · Score: 4, Interesting

Win CE crashes more often than Win XP and that's too much!

My Win XP setup is fairly stable (also helped by the fact the dual cpu means one cpu is usually still there to do ctrl-alt-del magic), but the instability of wince is almost inconceivable.. It should remind you more of windows 95. It hangs on to all the design mistakes ever made in Windows, and then adds some.

Unfortunately, it has such a strong foothold in the PDA market, that the companies that produce components for iPaqs and such are likely to offer wince support by default. Whereas if you were to go with linux, good luck finding energy-efficient GPUs and touchscreens etc. that are supported.

It also doesn't help that there's not much in the way of device-friendly linux APIs.. Running X on a small device is a bit too much; opie is there, but not much else.. Microsoft have even crammed a stripped down version of directX into their pocketPC OS. *shudder*

You have to wonder who dropped the ball over at Sun that they don't have a Java OS for handhelds. And lament the rape of symbian by Nokia. (No, you're thinking of a sybian, different thing entirely).

--
SCO employee? Check out the bounty
There is already a similar product being marketed by bain_online · 2004-07-27 05:14 · Score: 4, Informative

This kind of device already exists,
Its small poacket size box which has bluetooth capability. You can use a bt headset and a pocketpc/palm with bluetooth to connect to it. And it can make gsm calls, has voip stack comes with its own sip server, and works with any access point.
here is the link
you will find some info on the company and product

--
BAIN http://www.devslashzero.com
WinCE by Archangel+Michael · 2004-07-27 05:16 · Score: 3, Funny

It is NOT pronounced Win See Ee.

From Dictionary.com.

Wince -
To shrink or start involuntarily, as in pain or distress; flinch.

For once Microsoft gets it right.

--
Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
Re:Crashes more often by garcia · 2004-07-27 05:16 · Score: 2, Interesting

Win CE crashes more often than Win XP and that's too much!

Well, XP doesn't crash as much as you claim it to be, but we'll let that slide. Yes, CE is extremely unstable. So unstable that I wouldn't trust it to make phone calls. Why are we making cell phones run CE? Why can't the run some embedded OS like Linux or QNX (or whatever)?

I guarantee that way that you wouldn't be locked in to a specific router, a clunky and unstable OS, or a vendor who is notoriously evil.
Alternative by Creamsickle · 2004-07-27 05:16 · Score: 3, Interesting

This isn't a first - the Hitara 3800 series came out about six months ago, which can do everything this device Avaya, Motorola and Proxim "invented" does. And for fans of open source, it runs Linux, not M$ crap. Having looked at specs for both devices, the Hitara certainly seems to have better pipeline architechture as well. Another example of open source and open engineering processes leading to better designed hardware.

--
On the 0th day, God created C
Re:OT: qnx by Kenja · 2004-07-27 05:21 · Score: 2, Interesting

"Why is it that QNX is used so rarely?"
Price. It is a VERY expensive OS.

--

"Have you ever thought about just turning off the TV, sitting down with your kids, and hitting them?"
Possible Already by j_stirk · 2004-07-27 05:29 · Score: 2, Interesting

Aren't there already PBXs that can do POTS <-> VoIP style connections? I seem to remember hearing about them, and a quick Google for them shows they aren't exactly unheard of.

Surely, if a phone has a basic 802.11 capability, the effort to write a Java or Symbian app to do the VoIP with the PBX wouldn't be amazingly difficult. And, scarily enough, it might even be platform dependant (or JVM dependant - whichever way your personal bias runs...)

--
[root@GRIFFIN root]# rpm -e coffee-1.22.3-1a.i386.rpm
error: removing these packages would break dependencies:
1. Re:Possible Already by gl4ss · 2004-07-27 05:45 · Score: 2, Insightful
  
  the catch is the seamless changing between the two(wifi to gsm and back).
  
  dunno how well this device tho does is either and you would probably need the operator to co-operate as well anyways or be paying to multiple parties which leads to the question would this be cheaper than what a big (for example) hospital could negotiate with a carrier and just use gsm..
  
  --
  world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
Can you hear me now? by Anonymous Coward · 2004-07-27 05:32 · Score: 3, Funny

What?
Can you hear me now?
HOLD ON A SECOND I'M REBOOTING MY PHONE!
Can you hear me now?
Can you hear me now?
Dammit, another bluescreen! *whacks phone*
Christ, that car came out of NOWHERE! Watch where you're going, asshole!
1. Re:Can you hear me now? by polyp2000 · 2004-07-27 05:43 · Score: 2, Interesting
  
  worse still ... this is a true story ... I was in a pub near where i live a week or two ago. My friend was waiting next to me for his change. I enquired why it was taking so long; He said .. there's something wrong with the Till..My immediate reaction was to ask the barman if the thing was running windows. He said "NT-4" Im waiting for it to reboot , I said, well thats your problem then; and walked off with a smug grin on my face... When windows gets in the way of me getting beer then there are some severe problems...
  
  Nick...
  
  --
  Electronic Music Made Using Linux http://soundcloud.com/polyp
inconceivable by Mordaximus · 2004-07-27 05:34 · Score: 2, Funny

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means. ;)
Re:There is already a similar product being market by dykofone · 2004-07-27 05:38 · Score: 2, Funny

Wow, slap an iPod on there and it could even change channels!
Recursive wonderment by peteMG · 2004-07-27 06:09 · Score: 2, Funny
So, assuming they could get this to work with 802.11(*) in general and I had more than one 802.11 card, could I:
1. connect to the internet with the phone (if it had GPRS or equivalent)
2. ship the connection to my laptop via bluetooth
3. share that connection over a wireless card
4. connect to the wireless with the phone
5. GOTO 2
6. ...
7. Profit!
?