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Tiny Autonomous Submersible

dAzED1 writes "The BBC is reporting that Australian researchers have built a 40cm, self-controlling submarine that can dive to 5,000 meters. It's small enough that there is concern it could simply be eaten, or worse, used by the military. My question is, at 1 m/s, how does it get to 5km before the 1-day battery dies?"

58 comments

  1. One day? by adam+mcmaster · · Score: 4, Informative

    How does it do it in a day? Easy

    1. Re:One day? by SiliconJesus · · Score: 1

      Or - 24 hours/day * 60 mins/hour * 60 seconds/min = 86400 seconds / day.

      --
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  2. My question is, at 1 m/s, how does it get to 5km by Tomah4wk · · Score: 3, Informative

    beacuase thats about an hour and a half?

  3. I predict that... by psyconaut · · Score: 4, Funny

    ...ThinkGeek will be selling this unit within 3 weeks complete with an 8ft "cubicle acquarium" to drive it around in! ;-)

    -psy

  4. The real question is... by KDan · · Score: 4, Funny

    How stupid do you feel after getting basic 10-year-old maths wrong in your slashdot submission :-P

    Daniel

    --
    Carpe Diem
    1. Re:The real question is... by terrox · · Score: 1

      oww.

    2. Re:The real question is... by Phleg · · Score: 1
      How stupid do you feel after getting basic 10-year-old maths wrong in your slashdot submission :-P

      I suppose about the same as getting basic 10-year-old grammar wrong in your Second Post.

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      No comment.
    3. Re:The real question is... by alienw · · Score: 2, Informative

      It's a British thing, you moron.

    4. Re:The real question is... by adam+mcmaster · · Score: 1
      maths n. Chiefly British (used with a sing. verb) Mathematics.

      Nothing wrong there.

    5. Re:The real question is... by BrokenHalo · · Score: 4, Funny

      No. Americans call maths math, while those of us in the English-speaking world call it mathematics or maths.

    6. Re:The real question is... by borkus · · Score: 1

      Hold your horse there pardner. I know that there's arithmetic; I hear tell that my city cousin learned something called algebra. Just how many gol-durn maths are there?

    7. Re:The real question is... by th3space · · Score: 1

      that's probably why they call it 'maths', which would pluralize the term...face it, us 'mericans sure do enjoy messing up an already messed up language.

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    8. Re:The real question is... by rk · · Score: 1

      Or about the same as assuming that anyone who doesn't speak American English is stupid.

    9. Re:The real question is... by pjt33 · · Score: 1

      Mathematics is usually divided up into arithmetic, algebra and analysis.

  5. What's next? by Engineer-Poet · · Score: 5, Interesting
    Keeping in mind that the little ship is good for "up to" a day (at what speed?) and that it would take 3 hours to get to depth and back at its top speed, how long will it take the makers to give it droppable ballast weights? You'd need two; one to ballast the positively-buoyant ship to neutral, and a second to give it extra weight to sink to depth without using its motors (thus saving the battery). Bonus points for using the weight to power a glide to points of interest instead of descending straight down.

    If hungry sea creatures are a problem, use some of that battery power to shock them, or shotgun-shell primers to scare them off.

    1. Re:What's next? by extremescholar · · Score: 1

      Super bonus points for generating electricity to maintain battery life on the trip down

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      Using the Freedom of Speech while I still have it.
  6. Math lesson needed by photon317 · · Score: 3, Informative


    1 m/s * 86400 seconds in a day = 86.4km. I don't think the battery is the problem, it's the pressures past 5k.

    --
    11*43+456^2
  7. New $700 toy.. by adeyadey · · Score: 4, Interesting

    There is more on the Serafina home page.

    Getting to 5000m should not be a problem of time, at 1 m/s, even though I wander whether that speed is possible vertically? Probably a bigger problem is communicating over 5km - maybe you need "relays" at intermediate depths. It seems that groups of them can act as a sort of network. I didnt see a lot of details on such things as coms distance, etc, tho I didnt dig very deep.

    As a toy for $700, I would even consider buying one.

    Hmmm, I wonder if you could mount a laser.. What do you mean, why?

    --
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    1. Re:New $700 toy.. by merlin_jim · · Score: 1

      Probably a bigger problem is communicating over 5km

      [snip]

      Hmmm, I wonder if you could mount a laser.. What do you mean, why?

      A properly tuned blue laser will penetrate relatively clean ocean water surprisingly well... that's why!

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    2. Re:New $700 toy.. by Chuck1318 · · Score: 1
      I wander whether that speed is possible vertically? Probably a bigger problem is communicating over 5km

      Actually reading the information on the home page (Yes, I'm new here), I see the vertical speed is 0.5 m/sec, and they don't try to communicate with the surface, but only locally with other submersibles in a group within 6 m.

  8. Math by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    My question is, at 1 m/s, how does it get to 5km before the 1-day battery dies?

    Well, lets use some basic arithmetic. 1m/s is 3600 meters per hour. That's 3.6 km per hour. There are 24 hours in a day, so if the battery lasts that long, and it goes 10 km round trip (5 km up and down), what is the problem?

  9. battery life by Sogol · · Score: 4, Insightful
    How does it get to 5km before the 1-day battery dies?

    How much battery power do you think it takes to sink into the ocean?

    1. Re:battery life by Smidge204 · · Score: 1

      I'd also think they could set up some kind of seawater-electrolite voltaic cell to suppliment the battery system. Might be able to extend it's life by a few days (providing periodic "resting" to recharge)
      =Smidge=

  10. eaten by pizza_milkshake · · Score: 1, Funny

    i just ate a 50cm submersible for breakfast, i thin i'll pass.

  11. Actually.... by Deagol · · Score: 1

    it was built by a pudgy, paranoid guy in a home-built cave in some backwater Canadian costal town. They wanted to interview the creator of this device, but all he would say is some incoherent mumblings about the "damned Winnebago people"

  12. more info by Time_Ngler · · Score: 5, Informative

    Here is the main site...

  13. Sea trials by g0bshiTe · · Score: 1

    I would like to know how it performs at sea trials. In monster currents, and how much draw the extra currents add. This would be awesome combined with cold fusion, but then again so would cold fusion alone.

    --
    I am Bennett Haselton! I am Bennett Haselton!
  14. OR BETTER... by Picass0 · · Score: 2, Insightful
    "It's small enough that there is concern it could simply be eaten, or worse, used by the military."

    Why "or worse"? Giving our military better technology is often times the best way to avoid becoming entangled in lengthy conflicts and reliance on poor intelligence.



    1. Re:OR BETTER... by Marxist+Hacker+42 · · Score: 1

      It'd also be an easier way to blow up ships- $700 is cheap for a self-guided, pre-programmable torpedo.

      --
      SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
    2. Re:OR BETTER... by Picass0 · · Score: 1

      Slashdot has always been the first place to point out that any technology is as good or bad as it's application.

    3. Re:OR BETTER... by Marxist+Hacker+42 · · Score: 1

      After I wrote this, I came up with an even better use- add a .68 caliber cannon to it with a few thousand paintballs, and it could be a great way to get around the protest limits on the Republican National Convention- just program it to paint your message on the side of the cruise ship in the middle of the night.

      --
      SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
    4. Re:OR BETTER... by !splut · · Score: 1

      ...whereas on slashdot, supporting the appropriation of novel technology by Big Brother is sufficient to guarantee entanglement in lengthy conflicts by /.ers of poor intelligence.

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      The angel in the oatmeal.
    5. Re:OR BETTER... by rickbrodie · · Score: 1

      Because giving the military better technology makes attacking something (anything) easier, and therefore it is more likely to happen. If the army only had sharpened sticks, how many countries would they try to invade?

    6. Re:OR BETTER... by DAldredge · · Score: 1

      Why don't you bitch about what they did at the Dem Convention?

      http://us.news1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/rids/200407 26/i/r1137738168.jpg

    7. Re:OR BETTER... by Marxist+Hacker+42 · · Score: 1

      I have- just not here. This wasn't the worst of the Dem convention either- the convention was staged right down to severe editing and censorship of several speeches, including John Edwards' and John Kerry's speeches.

      That wasn't a convention, it was a love-fest for kicking off an attack on Bush. Nothing groundbreaking was decided, the truly revolutionary voices in the party of Kucinich, Dean, and Sharpton were utterly silenced.

      --
      SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
    8. Re:OR BETTER... by DAldredge · · Score: 1

      What revolutionary ideas has Sharpton had?

    9. Re:OR BETTER... by Marxist+Hacker+42 · · Score: 1

      Mainly ones about race- I was far more interested in Kucinich's ideas about protecting us from the Mexican & Indian invasion myself, being of far too mixed race to care what the purebloods of any race think.

      --
      SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
    10. Re:OR BETTER... by DAldredge · · Score: 1

      Name them. He hasn't had any, he is just like Jackson in that they make millions on the backs of the people they are susposed to help.

  15. michael = owned by Wisgary · · Score: 1

    Owned by your own stupidity!

  16. by using weights? by JDizzy · · Score: 1

    couldn't they use a weitght that is released when the automatic water-droid gets a certain depth? Wouldn't that give it soem natural downward motion instead of usign thrusters.... jsut spinning my head on the question in the post.... my .02c

    --
    It isn't a lie if you belive it.
  17. I have an unorthodox solution... by kulakovich · · Score: 2, Interesting


    ... a "fantastic voyage" if you will! Mwa-hey.

    Admit it. You were thinking it.

    on a more serious note - you could design the craft to be neutrally bouyant at 4.9km depths. It will sink until it gets to that point, if need be, and a trigger could turn it on. Then you could go 4.9km linear horizontal, power down and pop a gas bladder to surface.

    kulakovich

    1. Re:I have an unorthodox solution... by Chuck1318 · · Score: 1
      . . . pop a gas bladder to surface.

      At 5km depth, the pressure is about 7000psi. The gas would have to be pressurized to more than that to expand a gas bladder. At those pressures, gasses behave far differently from ideal gasses, and change volume very little with changes in pressure. To contain the gas at the surface, you would need a thick, heavy pressure container that would weigh far more than the bouyancy you would gain from the gas.

    2. Re:I have an unorthodox solution... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What about a chemical gas generator? The container could be a bag of sorts anyways, otherwise it would already displace and take up frontal area that would increase drag. If you used a series of bags in stages, each would only have to contain a few hundred psi. Just before bursting the last you inflate the next and cut the last one when vertical speed decreases(i.e. the last bag burst).

      If you used a water ballast like a nuclear submarine, the pressure differential could be vented, after all it doesn't matter if it(the lifting gas) is a consumable, it's only being used for the one way trip back to the surface. The comsumption and venting would also serve to reduce the weight like dumping ballast, although I think this would be a minor contribution.

  18. How about, duh? by Leroy_Brown242 · · Score: 1

    Who says this thing needs to start at 0? How about if it was released from a sub, or shot down to a few km below sea level using a torpedo or something?

  19. Imagine... by dnahelix · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I imagine that one day there will be thousands of these robots constantly monitoring the ocean's vitals...
    I imagine them being rechargable on their own, too. What if they were covered with solar panels and when the battery went dead it would float to the top and recharge on sunlight...

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    1. Re:Imagine... by dnahelix · · Score: 1

      It's so funny how many people have tried to mod me down since I've started using this sig!

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    2. Re:Imagine... by DAldredge · · Score: 1

      Hell, how do you think I feel?

  20. Errr .... by gstoddart · · Score: 2, Interesting
    Giving our military better technology is often times the best way to avoid becoming entangled in lengthy conflicts and reliance on poor intelligence.


    Ummmm .... so that freakin' huge defence budget you guys have has prevented any of this from happening how ???

    --
    Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    1. Re:Errr .... by Picass0 · · Score: 1

      That's not my point. I'm not refering to the price of the technology. I also did not say budget was a barrier to obtaining the mini-sub.

      I'm commenting on the attitude of the story poster that the moment you put a piece of technology in the hands of our military it's going to be put to a purpose that is evil in nature.

      Our military has a legitimate purpose, whether you like our sitting president or not. That purpose is national defense. Better tools and technology allow for a better defense, often times enabling less agressive tactics and reducing unwanted cassualties.

    2. Re:Errr .... by rk · · Score: 1

      Unfortunately, the best intelligence and technology in defense does not protect us from the poor intelligences serving in positions of leadership in our government.

    3. Re:Errr .... by grozzie2 · · Score: 1
      Our military has a legitimate purpose, whether you like our sitting president or not. That purpose is national defense.

      History says otherwise. The us military has rarely been used in defense of american territory. On the other hand, it's been involved in various and sundry foreign invasions and occupations formally and informally on an almost non stop basis for the last 60 years.

      The purpose of the us military is to project military force into other parts of the world. That's national offence, not defence. Defence would be defending ones own borders.

    4. Re:Errr .... by sakyamuni · · Score: 1
      Our military has a legitimate purpose, whether you like our sitting president or not. That purpose is national defense.

      Tote up the number of times the U.S. military has been used for the defense of the nation vs. invading another country since 1950 or so.

  21. Parent is REDUNDANT by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Poster commented about ballast weights 2 hours before parent post.

  22. Maybe not a bad idea by Engineer-Poet · · Score: 1
    According to the specs, the average run time is "> 2 hours" with continuous maneuvering. The vertical speed is around half a meter per second (meaning that it cannot descend vertically). This means that the maximum depth it can achieve under its own power is 1800 meters or so before it has to come back up, and it gets no loitering time down there.

    Being able to perform descents and ascents without running the maneuvering motors would allow access to the full depth capability of the hull. You would have to add hardware to extract power from the slipstream during buoyant maneuvers; given that this would probably not extend the time-at-depth by a huge amount (and might decrease powered speed and range), it might not be worth it.

  23. Smallest? by cr0sh · · Score: 1

    While not autonomous (or wireless, though it could be made so), and not as maneuverable, this site shows how to build as small or smaller submersibles, from PVC pipe and other off-the-shelf (OTS) parts...

    --
    Reason is the Path to God - Anon
  24. Oops, my bad... by cr0sh · · Score: 1

    These are R/C, thus wireless (but not autonomous)...sorry.

    --
    Reason is the Path to God - Anon
  25. Re:My question is, at 1 m/s, how does it get to 5k by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    In fact, the guy was quite right, but you won't see it in his post...
    But if you go on the official website you'll see that the autonomy for "permanent manoeuvring" is only two hours.
    Hence the problem.

    The solution would be to use weights or ballasts.
    But that's a different question.