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Sony Endorsing Open Graphics Format For PS3

News for nerds writes "At the tech talk as part of the forthcoming SIGGRAPH 2004 conference on August 11th, an open graphics file format for the interactive 3D [videogame] industry called COLLADA will be unveiled by Sony Computer Entertainment. COLLADA is supported by major 3D toolchain companies including Alias, Criterion, Discreet, Emdigo, Novodex, Softimage and Vicarious Visions. If you combine this with the recent news that Sony has joined Khronos Group to support OpenGL/ES, OpenMAX, OpenVG and OpenML, it seems evident that Sony is quietly fighting back against the loudly trumpeted Microsoft XNA (/. coverage) with its plan of an open game development platform."

18 of 191 comments (clear)

  1. Seems logical by Anonymous+Crowhead · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Sony has a vested interest in making it easier and cheaper for companies to develop games.

    1. Re:Seems logical by endx7 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      That way the market can be flooded with low quality games that suck, because anyone can do it.

      Or, it becomes cheaper, but you still have to go through Sony to license your game to publish it on the PS3. That would cut out poor games that could hurt the PS3's image (and because of open standards, like OpenGL (well, it has a published API at least), even if you don't get it on PS3, you can still release it on other platforms, like the PC).

    2. Re:Seems logical by lambent · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The original days of video games were full of poor quality games that everyone had the ability to make. Many people now regard this as the great halcyon days of gaming, and look back with fondness and regret.

      Personally, i'd rather pay 5$ a piece for 10 mediocre games, then pay 50$ for the latest must-have-super-franchise-sequel-seen-everything-b efore-but-this-time -it's-new-we-promise deal.

      Openness and well documented specs will benefit everyone. Just because there will be more lower quality games (not disputing this), doesn't mean that you won't still get to blow your wad on Super Mario 8 and Sonic 12 Adventure Battle or whatever it is.

    3. Re:Seems logical by jrockway · · Score: 2, Insightful

      No, the only thing that can compete against M$ is open-ness. If M$ weren't around, Sony would stick us with their proprietary crap again.

      So hey, M$ is good for one thing. Getting their competitors to open things up. This is actually good (although sony doesn't seem the to be a likely source of openness... i'll wait and see on this one).

      --
      My other car is first.
    4. Re:Seems logical by stratjakt · · Score: 5, Insightful

      PSX and PS2 already have plenty of low-quality games. That was Sony's battle-plan. While Nintendo has had a history of not rubber-stamping things, sending games back to the developers for polishing, Sony focused on "fill the shelves". It worked for them.

      Ie; quantity vs quality. AFAIK, it's much harder to get your game approved for market for Gamecube or Xbox than it is for Sony. Go down to the used game shop and just look at the stacks and stacks of pure crap in the PS2 and PSX bins. "Hooters Racing" comes to mind. Yeah, lets take this horse-turd joke of a racing game, stick in a couple still publicity photo's of Hooters girls, and make some bucks.

      I'm not saying every PS2 game is shit, some are great. I'm just saying that the "bury 'em in titles" philosophy has worked well for them in the past.

      When you walk into Best Buy and the PS2 section is twice the size of the Xbox and GCN sections, that makes a big impact on your average shopper.

      It's also how gameboy buried all of it's competition over the years.

      --
      I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
  2. Good for them... by Fux+the+Penguin · · Score: 4, Insightful

    If Sony (or any other company) releases free development environments then they should be applauded because at least it gives anyone the opportunity of turning a good idea into a tangible game or piece of software.

    The problem I have is with the game companies themselves because making money from games and having a constant supply of good quality games are mutually exclusive.

    For starters, I don't understand why there is a necessity to constantly re-invent the wheel and create gaming engines from scratch just about each time a new game is released. Surely it would be better to throw out the source code to current gaming engines to the Internet community to see what enhancements get added as a result - sure, keep the level design, textures, etc. for a specific commercial game that uses that engine under wraps so that, as a game company, you can make money from it.

    One advantage that consoles have over a PC is that developers for a console platform must constantly "push the envelope" to get the console to do more and more as time goes on - this, in turn, creates better, more efficient coding. On the PC, the expectation is that users simply upgrade hardware to meet the requirements of a new game, no games developers get long enough with a particular, say, graphics chipset to fully understand what they can get it to do and, as a result, we, the end users, end up with sloppily coded games that need constant upgrades to get them to work properly.

    My point is that we need a return to the good old days of the Commodore 64, ZX Spectrum & Amiga when it was possible for "bedroom programmers" to create good quality games. Sure, games were much smaller then but that's why game development environments like XNA, SDL, etc. exist now in order to cut down the development times. What would really put games development back into the hands of single programmers or small groups of game designers, is having access to the core engines as well so that the most important aspect of game design, the initial good idea for a game design, can become tangible much easier.

    Incidentally, I don't, for one minute, expect this to happen because there are far too many concerns about making money (which is why money and good games are mutually exclusive in my view) but it would be good to see the games buyers become a lot more discerning when it comes to purchasing games.

    Sure, we all own games that we feel were worth the money and that provide us with good entertainment but I guarantee most game players have spent far more money on disappointing games than good ones.

    1. Re:Good for them... by clandestine_nova · · Score: 5, Insightful
      For starters, I don't understand why there is a necessity to constantly re-invent the wheel and create gaming engines from scratch just about each time a new game is released.
      I don't know about you, but in my programming experience, I tend to want to craft things myself - for the experience of it, plus the fact that I understand my coding more than anyone else's, obviously.

      As to why they are doing it, I haven't got a damn clue. Perhaps something to do with licenses, since there currently isn't any XBox/PS2/GC open source engine, is there?
      --
      Discworld.
    2. Re:Good for them... by cubicledrone · · Score: 3, Insightful

      For starters, I don't understand why there is a necessity to constantly re-invent the wheel and create gaming engines from scratch just about each time a new game is released.

      Because it is easier to spend $umpty million than it is to green light an original idea.

      Sure, games were much smaller then but that's why game development environments like XNA, SDL, etc. exist now in order to cut down the development times.

      Which is then replaced with $umpty million for art work, levels, monster designs, etc. (note no story, characters or anything that might require a WRITER).

      Sure, we all own games that we feel were worth the money and that provide us with good entertainment but I guarantee most game players have spent far more money on disappointing games than good ones.

      Agreed.

      --
      Business isn't willing to pay for products, innovation and careers, so we get brands, mortgage commercials and layoffs.
    3. Re:Good for them... by k98sven · · Score: 4, Insightful

      My point is that we need a return to the good old days of the Commodore 64, ZX Spectrum & Amiga when it was possible for "bedroom programmers" to create good quality games.

      It's not gonna happen. (Not that you seem to believe it yourself)

      The first movies were made by the Lumiere brothers, who invented the projector.

      The first photograph was unincidentally taken by Niepce who unsurprizingly was the inventor of the first camera.

      It follows naturally that the first computer games were written by computer hobbyists and programmers.

      I believe however, that the day of programmers as the major creative force in computer games is over. Like the cinematograph and the camera, the computer has been accepted as an artists' tool and computer games as a medium. It's part of the entertainment industry now. And with that comes the high-budget, polished productions that cost money and bars the entry of amateurs.

      Sure, now and then a small independent film made on grainy 16mm film unexpectedly breaks through and receives a cult following, and I expect something similar for amateur computer games in the future.

      But the days when a guy sitting in his basement could produce a major computer game hit is simply over.

    4. Re:Good for them... by Archibald+Buttle · · Score: 4, Insightful

      For starters, I don't understand why there is a necessity to constantly re-invent the wheel and create gaming engines from scratch just about each time a new game is released. Surely it would be better to throw out the source code to current gaming engines to the Internet community to see what enhancements get added as a result - sure, keep the level design, textures, etc. for a specific commercial game that uses that engine under wraps so that, as a game company, you can make money from it.


      Two URLs for you:
      http://www.renderware.com/
      http://www.idsof tware.com/business/technology/

      Many games are based on the Renderware engine from Criterion. They were just bought by EA this week.

      Many other games are based on the Doom and Quake engines from id.

      There are other gaming engines besides those offered by Criterion and id - physics engines, particle engines, rendering engines...

      Many game developers don't feel the need to write their own wizzy engine. Grand Theft Auto 3 and its sequels are all based on Renderware, for example. In fact there are several hundred games in development right now that use Renderware.

    5. Re:Good for them... by mrchaotica · · Score: 2, Insightful

      So, I take it you code in Assembly then? Or do you use things like glibc, other C libraries, GTK/Cocoa/Win32 API, high-level languages, etc?

      Coding your own graphics engine in your college "vector calculus for programmers" class is one thing; coding one for a commercial video game is quite another. Building off of others' work is the only way we (as an industry, or indeed as a species) get anything useful done!

      "If I have seen further [than others] it is by standing on the shoulders of giants." -- Isaac Newton

      --

      "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

  3. Been done before (1995!) by Bram+Stolk · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It has al been done before... in 1995!

    It was called
    keystone back then.

    --
    Bram Stolk http://stolk.org/tlctc/
  4. Re:Truly amazing... Well, kind of amazing by stratjakt · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This has little to do with wanting to "fight microsoft". The PSX brand already dominates, and MSFT really isn't a threat.

    This is just Sony listening to developers, who didn't care for the PS2 dev kits and all the wacky proprietary calls.

    The focus inside the industry really isn't on ports, it never has been. Ports, by rule of thumb, sell very poorly. Are you going to buy Doom 3 for Xbox and PC? Given the choice of one or the other, which would you choose? So would I.

    From the developers perspective, it's good to get your game to the widest possible audience. That means, if practical, PS2, PC, XBOX, and GCN.

    But, Sony (and MSFT or Nintendo for that matter) thrive on *excusive* titles. Believe me, Halo sold more Xboxes than probably every other Xbox title combined. Ditto MGS or GTA3 for PS2. Nintendo's stable of exclusive titles is well known.

    Anyhow, Sony picking library A over B has shit all to do with competing with Microsoft, embracing RMS's values, or any of that. It was just a decision they made based on feedback from their first tier developers.

    --
    I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
  5. Re:It'll never fly by stratjakt · · Score: 2, Insightful

    And quickly unmandated it when it was realized it was a pile of shit.

    The goal was noble: "One language to rule them all", but in practice what happened was every hacky construct and wonky bit of syntax wound up in Ada. It managed to, for the most part, encompass the worst of all worlds.

    It was designed in an age where interoperability sucked. Contractor A's libraries were in C, and Contractor B's were in FORTRAN. There was no way to get them to play nice.

    A "one language" mandate seemed the only solution. In hindsight, it was a poor one. Some applications require raw speed, real-time embedded components. Some require sophistated IO, fancy graphics..

    Today, with the various binary object formats (from com and .net/mono and CORBA), it's irrelevant. Contractors A and B can code in whatever the hell they want (to a degree).

    But, you're right. It's still around. I live in the DC area (so pretty much all coding work here is DoD related somehow) and there's a good bit of demand for Ada knowledge, but the projects usually involve porting some Ada app to something else.

    Ada: The "esperanto" of computer languages.

    --
    I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
  6. Re:Japanese a plus by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    It's obviously equivalent to "English a plus", which I don't think is a problem in a job specification. "English a plus" doesn't mean only people from the southern part of Great Britain need apply.

  7. Sony and Microsoft by AztecL0B0 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    For anyone who has posted ideas about how Sony is doing this in order to fight Microsoft, I'd like to suggest to reconsider. Microsoft is NOT the 800 lb. gorilla in the cosole market. NOT even close. It holds 2nd place in the US ONLY and is 3rd world wide. The ONLY reason it has fared this well it is because it sells a PC for $150. If you have kept up with the specifications for the Xbox2, you know that it will not be as powerful as the first Xbox was at its time; therefore, it will lose some of its mass appeal. I own all 3 consoles and Halo, but one or 5 good titles do NOT make a console. Look at Dreamcast, granted, Sega had other problems as well, but their original lineup was impressive. Xbox2 must have a superb lineup in order to stay a close 3rd in world wide sales. Sony is trying to appeal to developers and correct its mistakes with the PS2 (difficulty in programming). I prefer Nintendo over the other 2 consoles, but I am realistic. I know it won't beat out PS3 and I am sure Microsoft won't be a real contender. Microsoft will not keep on throwing money after 9 years. By that time they will have lost 4 billion dollars, with a B.

    --
    Susanna: NO! A si NO. Octavio: Pos...entonces como?
  8. What the hell are you talking about? by SuperKendall · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Sony, known for pushing proprietary interfaces, is backing open standards.

    Sony the freaking GAME MAKER is not all proprietary. Take a look at what they did provide on the PS2:

    Linux port
    Standard DVD player (if they had done what the gamecube did piracy would have been harder)
    Bog-standard USB ports
    Standard Firewire port.

    Seems like they were doing pretty good to me! Yeah I would have liked to see them use CF cards for game saves (or even thier own memory sticks - how many memory formats does the world need)? But they did better than any other console maker at supporting standards already, this is just another step in that direction. I don't think it's fair to label Sony the company as a whole with the brush of proprietary formats.

    And as a sidenote all the sony vidcams use standard firewire and standard tapes. Even the laest Sony camera uses CF cards (and memory sticks)! Sony is waking up.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
  9. Re:Sony Who? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Is that why the PSP uses UMD and memory stick? Yet two more proprietary Sony formats.