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Database Glitch Grounds American/US Airways

An anonymous reader writes "According to numerous news sources, all American Airlines and US Airways flights were grounded for two or three hours this morning. Both problems were caused by a computer glitch in the systems hosted by EDS. Quote: The operating system that drives the airline's flight plans went down."

21 of 274 comments (clear)

  1. Operating System (singular) by Hypharse · · Score: 5, Insightful
    "The operating system that drives the airline's flight plans went down."

    How in the world can they state that as singular. Surely they have a backup of some sort. Especially with all the supposed "increased security" around air flight, you are telling me that one system crash can knock out half of the major airlines? That's ridiculous. Have they not learned about redundancy?

    1. Re:Operating System (singular) by k4_pacific · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Well, one operating system can run on multiple machines. Google, f'rinstance, has thousands of machines running Linux, and that's one operating system. Probably there was some service running on all the systems that choked simultanously on some piece of bad data or they distributed a bad upgrade.

      Either way, somebody fucked up somewhere.

      --
      Unknown host pong.
    2. Re:Operating System (singular) by waynelorentz · · Score: 2, Insightful

      ... you are telling me that one system crash can knock out half of the major airlines?

      That's not what it says at all. American and U.S. Airways certainly don't count as half the major airlines in the United States. There are hundreds of airlines in the U.S. of A., and maybe a dozen qualify as "major." And by some measures, U.S. Airways doesn't count as a "major." So, no, you're completely wrong. Don't read things into the article that aren't there (assuming you RTFAs.)

    3. Re:Operating System (singular) by Osrin · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You are thinking like a computer techie... I suspect this guy does not even know what a Computer Operating System is, he is more likely refering directly to the underpinning infrastructure that runs his airline.

    4. Re:Operating System (singular) by B747SP · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Yeah, Have they not learned about redundancy?

      Well duh! Your average "aviation writer" is flat out telling the difference between an aeroplane and a hole in the ground. Asking them to write a story that involves aeroplanes *and* computers is just asking for trouble. Why, that's like asking a six year old to pat his head and rub his stomach at the same time!

      Basically the way these morons operate is that they latch on to any half-valid snippet of information - if their editor believes it, it must be true - and rush it out the door without so much as a damn about checking facts. This is 'journalism' facts have no place here!

      It is routine here in Oz for the journos to get as far as identifying that an aeroplane was involved, then completely lose the plot. Nighttime TV news, for example, might run a story about somebody's grandmother smuggling a pair of nail clippers onto a Boeing 767, and show stock footage of a BAe146 landing somewhere. There's a disturbing number of six seater Cessna 210s and twin engined Piper Warriors here in Australia too, not to mention the Beechcraft KingAir jets that everyone seems to be having trouble with lately.

      To put it simply, 'journalist' is a polite euphamism for 'clueless'. You're doing yourself a disservice if you think any other way! :-)

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    5. Re:Operating System (singular) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful
    6. Re:Operating System (singular) by blastedtokyo · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Yeah, but if Google loses a website in their results, nobody notices. If an air traffic controller loses a plane with a few hundred people on board and lets another plane fly close to or into it, you can be damn sure that people will notice.

  2. EDS works with a variety of systems by Rex+Code · · Score: 4, Insightful

    EDS is by no means a Windows shop. They work extensively with "big iron" mainframes. In fact, they recently got the contract to handle the database of terrorist information that'll be used at airports. Likely this will be hosted on a 390 or something... Windows can't handle that kind of I/O.

  3. Re:Great News! by Chess_the_cat · · Score: 4, Insightful

    What scary news? The airplanes are piloted by people, not computers. And certainly not the computers that control flight plans. Do you think that airplanes will start falling from the skies because a computer went down somewhere? I guess you packed your basement with cans of beans for Y2K too.

    --
    Support the First Amendment. Read at -1
  4. Wild speculation by MisterP · · Score: 3, Insightful

    They aren't telling the whole story.

    I come from Solaris/Veritas/Oracle and Redhat/Oracle RAC environments. One single system going down cannot take out the service. Database HA is somewhat complicated and expensive, but it's not rocket science, regardless of platform.

    I find it very difficult to believe that they would have any single points of failure in a system of that importance. Blaming MS is the easy way out.

    1. Re:Wild speculation by treat · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Standard database clusters use shared or replicated database storage. If you trash the database - a human error - the cluster is useless.

  5. Re:And in related news by Gzip+Christ · · Score: 2, Insightful
    the terror level has just been raised to "Orange" high at the same time that Tom Ridge announced that after the election he will reteire due to financial difficulties. I guess $175,000 a year of tax payer money just doesn't buy a lot now a days.
    That's only for DC. The terror level is still "Bert" for the rest of the country.

    Regarding his pay, Ridge has got to have one of the most stressful, time consuming, and important jobs in the country, and as such I for one do not think that $175K is nearly enough. Corporate officers frequently make more than that, so why would anybody willingly subject himself to a much more stressful and dangerous job for less money? I've got to side with Ridge.

  6. Re:EDS? Quelle surprise. by oddRaisin · · Score: 4, Insightful

    If we're going to lay blame, let's make sure we're spreading it evenly. A lot of contracts, and especially government ones, suffer from extreme scope creep. I have seen projects that started out with a 20 page description grow to over 150 pages by the end of the project.

    EDS and other large IT vendors try their best to discourage scope creep by making changes-after-the-fact billable for time and materials, instead of a negotiated cost. This makes the project go over budget. If the clients knew what they wanted at the begining, instead of wasting time and money doing engineering on the fly during the project, then the costs wouldn't be so high.

    Don't be so quick to slag EDS about the outage either. There are lots of factors out there that could have contributed. I have worked on projects where the clients say the servers are mission critical, yet can't be bothered to shell out money to upgrade from ultra-1 and ultra-5s, let alone pay for an HA solution. The technical people keep providing the justification and making the requests, but it's the project managers and accountants that really determine what kind of solution is feasible.

  7. Re:doesn't it say by CaptainTux · · Score: 2, Insightful
    By the way, when's the last time you saw Microsoft.com go down? Surely that website is hit harder than most anything on the next. Don't believe me? Everyone click here [microsoft.com]. Just saying, don't treat operating systems like religions.

    I'm sure the MS website experiences problems all the time. The difference is that, because it's such a large scale website and the company took the time to plan for failure, there is a lot of redundancy.

    Microsoft has *at least* three levels of redundancy on the corporate web site and possible more on the MSDN side of things. It doesn't *appear* to go down but, believe me, it does.

    That said, realize that while it might be popular to try to blame the OS for this failure it really has nothing to do with the OS. Be it Linux, Windows, Solaris, Unix, or even Mac, one CAN build a stable and reliable system with nearly 100% uptime if you take the time to plan, plan, plan. This isn't a software failure as much as it is a human one.

    --
    Anthony Papillion
    Advanced Data Concepts, Inc.
    "Quality Custom Software and IT Services"
  8. Re:EDS? Quelle surprise. by jimicus · · Score: 2, Insightful

    If the clients knew what they wanted at the begining...

    Isn't this what Systems Analysts are supposed to do?

  9. Re:UNIX by deaddrunk · · Score: 2, Insightful

    In this case the OS is irrelevant. EDS are very good at screwing things up by making promises they can't deliver on and then rushing things in.

    --
    Does a Christian soccer team even need a goalkeeper?
  10. Re:EDS by Detritus · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Staffing quality is rather strongly correlated to what the customer is willing to pay for labor. If the customer only cares about the bottom line, they get what they deserve.

    --
    Mea navis aericumbens anguillis abundat
  11. Re:EDS? Quelle surprise. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful
    I have seen projects that started out with a 20 page description grow to over 150 pages by the end of the project.

    If you have a 20 page project that is not 150 pages by the end of it, you're doing something wrong. The 20 pages tell you nothing. Every single requirement has to be clarified, expanded, all assumptions listed, etc. Most projects I've been on begun with a couple page description, and the final requirements documents ended up being well over 200 pages. The devil IS in the details, and you as the customer do not want the vendor weaseling out because something was not spelled out exactly, and you as the vendor do not want to be stuck with vague requirements that you don't know the exact scope and impact of.

  12. Re:EDS by sql*kitten · · Score: 2, Insightful

    If the customer only cares about the bottom line, they get what they deserve.

    Penny wise, pound foolish. Always the way, these days.

  13. Re:EDS? Quelle surprise. by demachina · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Don't think you can say much better or anything difference about CSC or the rest of the small cadre of IT companies who specialize in winning government contracts around the globe. They've had their share of multibillion dollar fiascos too.

    The problem with these companies is they specialize in winning big contracts. They put their best people on the proposals. They don't specialize in delivering great systems. Their best people probably move to the next RFP and they mostly fill the contracts with warm bodies.

    They can get away with it because its pretty rare for them to actually be punished for poor performance. If they get blacklisted by the agency that awarded the contract the agency ends up just replacing EDS with CSC or vice versa and the results don't get any better. I'd be interested if someone could cite a huge government IT contract that actually worked well. At some point governments need to figure out this methodology doesn't work and try something new.

    --
    @de_machina
  14. Re:You probably won't hear it by RadioTV · · Score: 2, Insightful

    If the emergency radios don't work ... We used to joke that the controllers would climb to the top of the tower and wave fire extinguishers to warn the planes away.

    I though that was what hand lights were for.

    --
    I have great faith in fools - self confidence my friends call it. - Edgar Allan Poe